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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v2 [Update on Post #5186]
- Thread starter TPP
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where do you think we are? the pokemon community gets upset when the sun rises every morning
as someone who's playing a lot of the tier recently, i would much prefer for the council votes to be cast by people who also spend a good amount of time playing and discussing the tier. if you've been really busy and have only played a few games since home's release, abstaining is not just fine but actually ideal. the reactions in this thread are completely unjustified - would you really prefer a vote based on instincts than an abstain vote?
and, fwiw, finch is doing a great job - he's open with the reasoning behind his votes, comes across as relatively experienced with the new meta, is voting pretty close to the majority community opinion, and is not delaying the quickban process. the tiering survey and viability list coming soon are also good signs that he cares about what we think about the tier and wants to help the community. stop blaming him for stuff that's not his fault.
and, fwiw, finch is doing a great job - he's open with the reasoning behind his votes, comes across as relatively experienced with the new meta, is voting pretty close to the majority community opinion, and is not delaying the quickban process. the tiering survey and viability list coming soon are also good signs that he cares about what we think about the tier and wants to help the community. stop blaming him for stuff that's not his fault.
To try and steer away from this, what playstyle are y’all enjoying the most in the current meta? I personally use balance, with a volcanion/chesnaught defensive core that works surprisingly well.
Honestly, as this point idgaf. I asked for my account to be nuked like two or three months ago or something like that. It took them many weeks to even get back to me, asking if I still wanted it deleted. I said yes, and still no action has been taken.
*screams irrationally*
YOU WILL DO A 10 HOUR LONG POST ON THIS AND EXPLAIN EVERY SINGLE DETAIL
NOW
:GUN:
I'm not saying that I would prefer an uninformed opinion, I think abstentions are perfectly fine. I didn't see xavgb's votes as more than something curious about the vote, but I do think it's reasonable to even just include a footnote on the results post or in the thread for the meta that the vote is relevant to. In my case, I had no idea xavgb was in STour and WCOP because this thread is the only one I've been reading recently.
I have nothing against xavgb choosing to abstain. I don't think he's lazy nor do I think he should be removed or 'isn't doing his job,' I just think that small notes like these are more than reasonable to ask for considering the guy hasn't even been mentioned in this thread before today.
…… maybe later dude
I love ches, he’s my boy, but I don’t have time to write a full blown post about him atm
bruh zama c always runs id bp heavy slam/bash + rest/crunch
normal zama either runs sub/id/bp/crunch or 4 attacks but stone edge is doing 40 to defensive zama anyways
252 Atk Choice Band Zamazenta Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Skeledirge: 224-264 (54.5 - 64.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
this is banded btw non band is doing like 40 if u have no ask investment
i agree. i think every council member should be as transparent and active within the forums (and this thread in particular) as finch
I have done 3, maybe 4 full-blown out post about it, that's why I'm asking
I promised everyone and myself to do stuff with him, and I will eventually, if only I had a decent defogger, guess I'll just stick to talonflame I guess
UBER
POSSIBLE UBER
OU
POSSIBLE OU/UUBL
UU:
and everything else not mentioned
POSSIBLE UBER
OU
POSSIBLE OU/UUBL
UU:
and everything else not mentioned
Hello, I figured I'd explain my votes. I will order the subjects from most problematic to least problematic in my eyes.
My ban votes:
Magearna should be clear. Setup sets with Calm Mind + Shift Gear/Iron Defense + Stored Power + Draining Kiss have a very limited range of checks, have proven to be too much when you add in Dual Screens, Weakness Policy, and Tera, and can easily snowball out of control. If that's not enough, it can catch you off guard with an absurdly wide array of other devastating sets to boot, ranging from Choice Specs to Spikes.
Chien-Pao was banned with a suspect test earlier this generation and remains tremendously strong. I voted to drop it back into the tier with the idea that Pokemon like Zamazenta (both forms), Magearna, and Urshifu and a higher general power level would help combat it. However, while they help to a certain degree, Chien-Pao's damage output just remains too much. For instance, Choice Band + Tera Dark Crunch 2HKOs Magearna, Urshifu, and the vast majority of the rest of the metagame. It helps that Sacred Sword allows it to cleave past Zamazenta's Defense boost, while priority options in Ice Shard and Sucker Punch make it a strong revenge killer on top of an oppressive wallbreaker.
My do not ban votes:
While I agree that some of these Pokemon have problematic elements, mainly the Iron Defense Zamazenta sets sweeping ill-prepared teams and Dire Claw cheesing past Sneasler's checks, in my personal opinion not quite enough time has passed to confidently say these Pokemon are outright broken. Frankly, I think people that argue that most of these should have been blatant quickbans in this slate are kneejerking too hard, similar to Walking Wake's first couple days in the tier. Hypothetically speaking from hindsight, I'd rather have kept a broken Pokemon in the tier a couple days longer than have wrongfully quickbanned a balanced Pokemon. It has been a mere five days, two quickbans have taken place since release (though I do personally wish it were three) and I would like to give these Pokemon a couple more days in this fresh metagame before I reassess their place in it and adjust my vote accordingly in the next quickban slate that will take place this upcoming week. The new 2/3 rather than >2/3 treshold should also mean that this slate will result in additional quickbans.
As for Light Clay, I believe the fact that it's on the radar is a symptom of certain Pokemon being broken, like Magearna, rather than the item itself.
My ban votes:
Magearna should be clear. Setup sets with Calm Mind + Shift Gear/Iron Defense + Stored Power + Draining Kiss have a very limited range of checks, have proven to be too much when you add in Dual Screens, Weakness Policy, and Tera, and can easily snowball out of control. If that's not enough, it can catch you off guard with an absurdly wide array of other devastating sets to boot, ranging from Choice Specs to Spikes.
Chien-Pao was banned with a suspect test earlier this generation and remains tremendously strong. I voted to drop it back into the tier with the idea that Pokemon like Zamazenta (both forms), Magearna, and Urshifu and a higher general power level would help combat it. However, while they help to a certain degree, Chien-Pao's damage output just remains too much. For instance, Choice Band + Tera Dark Crunch 2HKOs Magearna, Urshifu, and the vast majority of the rest of the metagame. It helps that Sacred Sword allows it to cleave past Zamazenta's Defense boost, while priority options in Ice Shard and Sucker Punch make it a strong revenge killer on top of an oppressive wallbreaker.
My do not ban votes:
While I agree that some of these Pokemon have problematic elements, mainly the Iron Defense Zamazenta sets sweeping ill-prepared teams and Dire Claw cheesing past Sneasler's checks, in my personal opinion not quite enough time has passed to confidently say these Pokemon are outright broken. Frankly, I think people that argue that most of these should have been blatant quickbans in this slate are kneejerking too hard, similar to Walking Wake's first couple days in the tier. Hypothetically speaking from hindsight, I'd rather have kept a broken Pokemon in the tier a couple days longer than have wrongfully quickbanned a balanced Pokemon. It has been a mere five days, two quickbans have taken place since release (though I do personally wish it were three) and I would like to give these Pokemon a couple more days in this fresh metagame before I reassess their place in it and adjust my vote accordingly in the next quickban slate that will take place this upcoming week. The new 2/3 rather than >2/3 treshold should also mean that this slate will result in additional quickbans.
As for Light Clay, I believe the fact that it's on the radar is a symptom of certain Pokemon being broken, like Magearna, rather than the item itself.
Yes.
Hello, I figured I'd explain my votes. I will order the subjects from most problematic to least problematic in my eyes.
My ban votes:
Magearna should be clear. Setup sets with Calm Mind + Shift Gear/Iron Defense + Stored Power + Draining Kiss have a very limited range of checks, have proven to be too much when you add in Dual Screens, Weakness Policy, and Tera, and can easily snowball out of control. If that's not enough, it can catch you off guard with an absurdly wide array of other devastating sets to boot, ranging from Choice Specs to Spikes.
Chien-Pao was banned with a suspect test earlier this generation and remains tremendously strong. I voted to drop it back into the tier with the idea that Pokemon like Zamazenta (both forms), Magearna, and Urshifu and a higher general power level would help combat it. However, while they help to a certain degree, Chien-Pao's damage output just remains too much. For instance, Choice Band + Tera Dark Crunch 2HKOs Magearna, Urshifu, and the vast majority of the rest of the metagame. It helps that Sacred Sword allows it to cleave past Zamazenta's Defense boost, while priority options in Ice Shard and Sucker Punch make it a strong revenge killer on top of an oppressive wallbreaker.
My do not ban votes:
While I agree that some of these Pokemon have problematic elements, mainly the Iron Defense Zamazenta sets sweeping ill-prepared teams and Dire Claw cheesing past Sneasler's checks, in my personal opinion not quite enough time has passed to confidently say these Pokemon are outright broken. Frankly, I think people that argue that most of these should have been blatant quickbans in this slate are kneejerking too hard, similar to Walking Wake's first couple days in the tier. Hypothetically speaking from hindsight, I'd rather have kept a broken Pokemon in the tier a couple days longer than have wrongfully quickbanned a balanced Pokemon. It has been a mere five days, two quickbans have taken place since release (though I do personally wish it were three) and I would like to give these Pokemon a couple more days in this fresh metagame before I reassess their place in it and adjust my vote accordingly in the next quickban slate that will take place this upcoming week.
As for Light Clay, I believe the fact that it's on the radar is a symptom of certain Pokemon being broken, like Magearna, rather than the item itself.
I saw a council member who voted ban on crowned, and do not ban on zamazenta-hero. Was their reason because hero has way more counterplay like I have been saying?
Good talk
I will aid you in your quest to prove the worth of chesnaught. If you ever doubt him, remember that he was OU while gren was uu
(Edit) +6 252+ Atk Black Glasses Tera Dark Kingambit Kowtow Cleave vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 314-370 (82.6 - 97.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
So its very likely we see zamazenta crowned and chien pao gone very soon at the very least, cool
Wouldn't be surprised if hero makes it out of the next one too, as it seems really strong with sub sets but I see ways to exploit it with hazards/futureport like I have mentioned, and hero cannot really deal with dirge super well even with stone edge as it does not like being wisped
I think it's a simple "it is what it is" scenario. The abstained, so be it. There's another vote happening next week. Move on. All you can do is adapt. No point in demanding information about why someone abstained as frankly, that's none of our business. I get it, in the heat of the moment, you maybe upset and I even had to catch myself when thinking "how tf could you abstain?" which is pretty damn stupid of me when this is free volunteer work for competitive POKEMON. This ain't no volunteer firefighting or anything. This is Pokemon we're talking about. HOME has been out for all of 5 days and there were 9 things on the radar and earlier this week, one mon got banned. So maybe they might wanna see how things play out for another week or whatever.
The council isn't a bunch of machines, they're indeed a bunch of human beings with lives outside of competitive Pokemon. Y'all expect instant results instead of letting the council take their time and do their thing in a timely manner or simply put, whenever they can get around to it. That's all I will say.
The council isn't a bunch of machines, they're indeed a bunch of human beings with lives outside of competitive Pokemon. Y'all expect instant results instead of letting the council take their time and do their thing in a timely manner or simply put, whenever they can get around to it. That's all I will say.
I literally mentioned it here hours ago, on discord, and on Twitter. I do not know what more you can possibly want.
You realize you can just, you know, log off
About time
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