Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v2 [Update on Post #5186]

[SpritePony]

So I finally bit the bullet today and got over my distaste of Great Tusk and I gotta say.... I'm kinda whelmed by it.

The way the usage rate and people talked about it, I was expecting something mindblowing once I slotted it on my team but so far he has been... just OK? I'm probably missing something, like a specific set but so far I find myself liking Iron Treads or Landorus over him.

For me, it depends upon the team. I almost always run Offensive Utility Tusk (Boots 4 Attacks w/ KO, RS.) It has a lot of power and bulk, and can apply a fair bit of pressure when positioned properly. There isn't a whole hell of a lot that wants to come in a Tusk if it's played well.

The major thing about Tusk is the role compression it provides. Defensive tank? Check. Offensive pressure mon? Check. Spinner? Check. Item control? Check. Rocks? Checkerooni.

Treads can do this to a lesser degree. Steel/Ground is great for resisting Rocks, and having a raw immunity to TSpikes, but you trade raw bulk and power for speed. Steel/Ground also hits less than Fighting/Ground offensively, even considering overlapping coverage.

Lando-T... Does Lando things. Except worse this gen. No Defog or Knock for it really hurts how effective Lando can be, but it makes up for it with Intimidate and one extra immunity over Tusk. You're also naturally faster. Lando has more offensive options than Tusk, but less raw bulk and a harsher 4x weakness to Ice (which is seemingly rare these days.) Buuuut you COULD make use of a Mixed Lando if you really wanted to, or god forbid a Nasty Plot set. So you have options for surprise factor.

 

[Napoli Burns]

What does the first half of this even mean

no reason to be racist like this

 

[DoofV3]

^Am I having a stroke or did your posts decay in quality all of a sudden.

----

For me, it depends upon the team. I almost always run Offensive Utility Tusk (Boots 4 Attacks w/ KO, RS.) It has a lot of power and bulk, and can apply a fair bit of pressure when positioned properly. There isn't a whole hell of a lot that wants to come in a Tusk if it's played well.

The major thing about Tusk is the role compression it provides. Defensive tank? Check. Offensive pressure mon? Check. Spinner? Check. Item control? Check. Rocks? Checkerooni.

Treads can do this to a lesser degree. Steel/Ground is great for resisting Rocks, and having a raw immunity to TSpikes, but you trade raw bulk and power for speed. Steel/Ground also hits less than Fighting/Ground offensively, even considering overlapping coverage.

Lando-T... Does Lando things. Except worse this gen. No Defog or Knock for it really hurts how effective Lando can be, but it makes up for it with Intimidate and one extra immunity over Tusk. You're also naturally faster. Lando has more offensive options than Tusk, but less raw bulk and a harsher 4x weakness to Ice (which is seemingly rare these days.) Buuuut you COULD make use of a Mixed Lando if you really wanted to, or god forbid a Nasty Plot set. So you have options for surprise factor.

I see, maybe I should try a 4 Attacking Set instead of a bulky set, that might be my issue. I do miss the speed from Treads/Lando.

 

[SpritePony]

^Am I having a stroke or did your posts decay in quality all of a sudden.

----




I see, maybe I should try a 4 Attacking Set instead of a bulky set, that might be my issue. I do miss the speed from Treads/Lando.

300 speed isn't bad at all. You outpace Non-Scarf, Timid Max Speed Glimmora and Gholdengo. Spin lets you hit 450, which means you're now faster than a Dragapult before +1, and you have hazards removed. Then you still have your gargantuan, fat HP/Defense pool to sit on and 135 base Attack to put the hurt on things. 300 Speed is actually the amount I hit on my own Treads set to give it better fighting odds vs special attackers.

 

[Return to Zero]

300 speed isn't bad at all. You outpace Non-Scarf, Timid Max Speed Glimmora and Gholdengo. Spin lets you hit 450, which means you're now faster than a Dragapult before +1, and you have hazards removed. Then you still have your gargantuan, fat HP/Defense pool to sit on and 135 base Attack to put the hurt on things. 300 Speed is actually the amount I hit on my own Treads set to give it better fighting odds vs special attackers.

I'd try to shoot for 301 Speed to deal with Bax, who otherwise lives an Iron Head and can threaten it with either setting up a Dragon Dance or OHKOing Treads with Earthquake. That aside, really solid set though. I like running Booster Energy + four attacks as a lategame cleaner and might try to adapt this for something more consistent.

 

[JHoxha]

The year is 2451. The only legal Pokémon in SV OU are Blissey, Clodsire, and Toxapex. The only damage-dealing moves allowed are Seismic Toss, Toxic, and Chilling Water. Games are decided entirely by whether you Tera a mon into Poison or Steel in order to avoid damage from Toxic, or into Ghost to become immune to Seismic Toss. Despite many protests from some of the best 1100s players on the ladder such as SneedChuck1984, the council refuses to hold a 2nd suspect test for Terastallization. There were reports of men in black suits entering SneedChuck's home later that night, with the OU council denying any involvement. SneedChuck1984 was pronounced dead the following morning, the official cause of death reported as drowning himself with a bottle of Poland Spring.

 

[SpritePony]

I'd try to shoot for 301 Speed to deal with Bax, who otherwise lives an Iron Head and can threaten it with either setting up a Dragon Dance or OHKOing Treads with Earthquake. That aside, really solid set though. I like running Booster Energy + four attacks as a lategame cleaner and might try to adapt this for something more consistent.

Those are all respectable points. 301/302 speed is also a good point to hit. I only chose 300 so that it matches Tusk, speed-wise. AV can also be swapped for Lefties if you want. Depending upon if I need it to rock or not, I flip flop between the two. AV makes you more consistent vs Glimmora but you lose Rocks, Lefties gives you more longevity.

 

[DoofV3]

Lost another low ladder match because someone ran Steel type Roaring Moon to survive a revenge kill from my Bax, I'm about to fall to my knees at this Walmart.

(I havent seen a Roaring Moon in ages and the fact that it had the perfect Tera to fuck me over was kinda funny ngl)

(THIS IS NOT AN ANTI TERA POST LOWER YOUR PITCHFORKS )

 

[SpritePony]

Lost another low ladder match because someone ran Steel type Roaring Moon to survive a revenge kill from my Bax, I'm about to fall to my knees at this Walmart.

(I havent seen a Roaring Moon in ages and the fact that it had the perfect Tera to fuck me over was kinda funny ngl)

(THIS IS NOT AN ANTI TERA POST LOWER YOUR PITCHFORKS )

I know how this feels. Admittedly I should probably go and change my Moon's Tera to Steel now that Volc is gone (it's currently Fire so that I can't get wisp'd or flame bodied.) But surprise perfect Teras are just a sucker punch.

 

[MattC (Banned)]

The year is 2451. The only legal Pokémon in SV OU are Blissey, Clodsire, and Toxapex. The only damage-dealing moves allowed are Seismic Toss, Toxic, and Chilling Water. Games are decided entirely by whether you Tera a mon into Poison or Steel in order to avoid damage from Toxic, or into Ghost to become immune to Seismic Toss. Despite many protests from some of the best 1100s players on the ladder such as SneedChuck1984, the council refuses to hold a 2nd suspect test for Terastallization. There were reports of men in black suits entering SneedChuck's home later that night, with the OU council denying any involvement. SneedChuck1984 was pronounced dead the following morning, the official cause of death reported as drowning himself with a bottle of Poland Spring.

Jokes on you I'm in 1400 Elo

But lowkey, id like to see this tier be made lots of depth in it o.o

 

[Finchinator]

The SV OU council has opened a discussion of Terastallization in the metagame. In 24 hours, discussion of the topic can take place here.

A formal Policy Review thread, which we will be paying especially close attention to, is also open here.

We are looking forward to engaging discussion starting this weekend. Terastallization should not be discussed here in the meantime or so long as that thread is open. General metagame discussion is still encouraged.

 

[G-Luke]

is this a way to deport/segregate peoples who want the ban of tera or council really want opinions on how to act on tera?

Why are the words "deport" and "segregate" specifically chosen here.....

 

[MattC (Banned)]

Why are the words "deport" and "segregate" specifically chosen here.....

Dont

 

[awyp]

I've been using Meow in this meta, and I feel like Meow will rise up again, it does so much, it's a great Knock Off user, sets up spikes (taunt), solid speed tier and it matches up pretty well with Samu-H. I've personally been using the Choice Scarf / Choice Band set but I also dabbled a little bit into the Focus Sash set. Yeah I feel Meow will be back on the rise, that's my prediction.

 

[KamenOH]

So i just fully beat Scarlet, and somethings that happened make me question if QC is really a flat 20% chance, or if its secretly some clutch mechanic, because there is no way I hit that 20% on the last hit on RM, much less with my last mon.
It isnt even the first time thats happened, bar the paradox obviously, where QC comes in clutch almost scripted rather than lucky chance.
Oh if only GF was willing to let us peer into the code...

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

So i just fully beat Scarlet, and somethings that happened make me question if QC is really a flat 20% chance, or if its secretly some clutch mechanic, because there is no way I hit that 20% on the last hit on RM, much less with my last mon.
It isnt even the first time thats happened, bar the paradox obviously, where QC comes in clutch almost scripted rather than lucky chance.
Oh if only GF was willing to let us peer into the code...

it might just be that you remember the moments that it comes in clutch more than the moments where it matters less or not at all.

then again, that's also the explanation people use to try and excuse the bullshit battle tower/frontier/maison/whatever rng, which i vaguely recall was empirically proven to be rigged a while ago, so who knows

 

[Froctopus]

The SV OU council has opened a discussion of Terastallization in the metagame. In 24 hours, discussion of the topic can take place here.

A formal Policy Review thread, which we will be paying especially close attention to, is also open here.

We are looking forward to engaging discussion starting this weekend. Terastallization should not be discussed here in the meantime or so long as that thread is open. General metagame discussion is still encouraged.

So just a general question, is this forum a debate where we should try to persuade people, or should just plainly state our opinions and hope others agree?

 

[Finchinator]

So just a general question, is this forum a debate where we should try to persuade people, or should just plainly state our opinions and hope others agree?

Both are fine

 

[SpritePony]

The SV OU council has opened a discussion of Terastallization in the metagame. In 24 hours, discussion of the topic can take place here.

A formal Policy Review thread, which we will be paying especially close attention to, is also open here.

We are looking forward to engaging discussion starting this weekend. Terastallization should not be discussed here in the meantime or so long as that thread is open. General metagame discussion is still encouraged.

Unfortunately, it seems only a select number of people are actually able to participate in said discussions.

 

[WildWave]

Unfortunately, it seems only a select number of people are actually able to participate in said discussions.

The Policy thread are for people with badges that contributes to the forum. They have special privilege to post there. The actual thread that we participate in opens 14 hrs from now. :)

 

[SpritePony]

The Policy thread are for people with badges that contributes to the forum. They have special privilege to post there. The actual thread that we participate in opens 14 hrs from now. :)

Fair enough.

Anywho. Grinding Tera shards is fun when the game's Tera Raids are buggy af. /s
But that's what I get for playing on cart rather than on ladder lmao.

 

[Finchinator]

Unfortunately, it seems only a select number of people are actually able to participate in said discussions.

In the second sentence of the post you quoted, I said the thread in this forum would be open in 24h.

 

[SpritePony]

In the second sentence of the post you quoted, I said the thread in this forum would be open in 24h.

I misunderstood it, as the linked posts look identical to one another. That's probably on me, though.

 

[MattC (Banned)]

So something happened. Not gonna go any further but I might be seeing things

Aside from that, since I can't speak on the Terastallization thread, I'll speak my mind here. My stance on Terastallization is that something needs to be done about it. Not in the sense of OTS like VGC has - moreso a STAB only Tera or revealing your Tera before the match starts like with the Genesect / Urshifu forms. If you know what your opponents Tera is, it's a 2-sided information exchange. It can go both ways for the players as the one with the Roaring Moon will most likely beat stall either way and your opponent can identify the threats to their team and play around it. Any other change is too much information, and I want to balance it in some way by revealing as little info as possible. STAB Tera only is informative about what your opponent could turn into as they quite literally only have a maximum of 2 options. Meanwhile a Team Preview of what both of the players Tera types are makes the game a lot less like running on egg shells in terms of what it can and can't be. Think of it like the Yu-Gi-Oh! card Appointer of the Red Lotus. You don't need to know much about Yu-Gi-Oh! or anything but essentially on your opponents turn, you pay 2000 of your LP (or you can't use it) to reveal your hand to your opponent and your opponent also reveals their hand. You then banish 1 card from your opponents hand until the End Phase of that turn. Much of that isn't important except the revealing your hand - as in Yu-Gi-Oh!, any information of what your opponent has is invaluable and this goes for any game like it.

But if you play Yu-Gi-Oh!, you know it recently got banned as having information on anything in that game is too game breaking and advantageous for the one to use it. However, this isn't Yu-Gi-Oh! and in Pokemon, revealing information isn't as impactful if it's in a low quantity. So either change in my eyes is feasible

In short, I see 2 options:
- STAB only Tera as what you can use
- Revealing your Tera in Team Preview (without revealing anything else about the mons)

 

[SpritePony]

So something happened. Not gonna go any further but I might be seeing things

Aside from that, since I can't speak on the Terastallization thread, I'll speak my mind here. My stance on Terastallization is that something needs to be done about it. Not in the sense of OTS like VGC has - moreso a STAB only Tera or revealing your Tera before the match starts like with the Genesect / Urshifu forms. If you know what your opponents Tera is, it's a 2-sided information exchange. It can go both ways for the players as the one with the Roaring Moon will most likely beat stall either way and your opponent can identify the threats to their team and play around it. Any other change is too much information, and I want to balance it in some way by revealing as little info as possible. STAB Tera only is informative about what your opponent could turn into as they quite literally only have a maximum of 2 options. Meanwhile a Team Preview of what both of the players Tera types are makes the game a lot less like running on egg shells in terms of what it can and can't be. Think of it like the Yu-Gi-Oh! card Appointer of the Red Lotus. You don't need to know much about Yu-Gi-Oh! or anything but essentially on your opponents turn, you pay 2000 of your LP (or you can't use it) to reveal your hand to your opponent and your opponent also reveals their hand. You then banish 1 card from your opponents hand until the End Phase of that turn. Much of that isn't important except the revealing your hand - as in Yu-Gi-Oh!, any information of what your opponent has is invaluable and this goes for any game like it.

But if you play Yu-Gi-Oh!, you know it recently got banned as having information on anything in that game is too game breaking and advantageous for the one to use it. However, this isn't Yu-Gi-Oh! and in Pokemon, revealing information isn't as impactful if it's in a low quantity. So either change in my eyes is feasible

In short, I see 2 options:
- STAB only Tera as what you can use
- Revealing your Tera in Team Preview (without revealing anything else about the mons)

1. No more discussion of Tera was supposed to happen here. Not trying to ruleshark, but just saying.
2. Comparing a wildly broken TCG to a video game of a completely different type is a bad comparison. Yes, having information can make or break a match-up, but information in a TCG vs information in VG are two totally different things. VGC's open team sheet (OTS) gives you the full specs of each Pokemon, barring stat distributions and nature if I recall correctly. Scouting a hand via Appointer doesn't let you know everything a player has in their deck.