Finchinator Wasn't there a Suspect Test supposed to start yesterday?
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v2 [Update on Post #5186]
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He needs to get near the pc first, I remember he was traveling and shit, worst case scenario is up by Thursday, use that time to cook something up, I'm really out of ideas
Personally I think they shouldn't ban Tera.
Tera is a good way to gain coverage and surprise value for example Hidden Power it also is a decent way of getting coverage and you might argue Tera Blast is stronger and Hidden Power is dependent on IVs. In Generation 6 and 7 Hyper training was introduced which meant no more Hidden Power Grass Special Attack IVs being lower.
Tera is a good way to gain coverage and surprise value for example Hidden Power it also is a decent way of getting coverage and you might argue Tera Blast is stronger and Hidden Power is dependent on IVs. In Generation 6 and 7 Hyper training was introduced which meant no more Hidden Power Grass Special Attack IVs being lower.
It’ll be up tonight. May be late, but definitely tonight. Could be 10pm or could be 1am (GMT-4), so wouldn’t bank on it being any specific time.
I actually think this gambit suspect is gonna be insanely close, and if it stays, I think its time to question tera as a whole, because clearly all of the restrictions that have been thrown around don't really work
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On that note, when are we just biting the bullet and banning Leppa? It's been used for exactly 2 things ever: Endless Battles and Revival Blessing. At some point, let's acknowledge that anything that involves needing more PP than default is probably bad.
At the risk of touching on it outside the Tera thread, what restrictions? The only Suspect we had for Tera as a Mechanic erred for no action, so all the restriction proposals have literally no data for how they apply in practice to OU. Maybe they don't work but there's no "clearly" because nothing's been tried, just suggested.
I will be curious to see the result of a Kingambit suspect regardless, as even putting aside Tera, the Hazard-heavy state of the game means "End Game" where it plays best can sneak up on you faster than expected for any given playstyle.
How is Volt Switch working out for you on Iron Hands? I tried it on a few different sets in the early days of the generation, but Tusk is such an easy switch-in against Iron Hands that it never generated a ton of value for me until after Tusk was gone, at which point I mostly preferred the coverage to clean things. I liked it a *lot* more in UU for the 10 minutes Hands was legal there, and I can see how a willingness to commit to Tera Grass/Flying could improve its usefulness in OU.
regardless, gambit is gonna be a very close suspect
In fairness, Gambit arguably hates Hazards the most since that drastically limits its end-game potentially. Every bit of HP matters on this guy to keep in out of critical KO thresholds, letting it setup an SD or get another attack off. HDB are good on it for this reason, but not having Leftovers sucks since it's not getting passive Healing from Sucker Punch mindgames (the amount of health it gets from Sucker Punch KOes / failures adds up).
Usually, when there is a tusk in play, I would do a midground and Drain Punch or tera and Ice Punch but you can also just go into Pelipper, Corviknight or Amoonguss (Unless it's an offensive Tusk and you've used the eject button) on the Tusk making it fodder for the team. So, usually Volt Switch puts in work.
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That's fair.
I don't use Twatter after it went downhill, so I haven't been able to see this. Thanks, though.
so, to stimulate discussion here, i'd like to ask everyone a question:
what's the dumbest lure set you've come across that's actually worked?
i personally got dunked on by an imprison lando-t that prevented my own lando from setting up rocks, u-turning out, or punishing its own u-turn with an eq. i also got trolled by mean look + clear amulet gengar once because it blocked parting shot and trapped my spirit break screens grimmsnarl, but that was mostly my own fault because it was nicknamed "grimm slayer"
what's the dumbest lure set you've come across that's actually worked?
i personally got dunked on by an imprison lando-t that prevented my own lando from setting up rocks, u-turning out, or punishing its own u-turn with an eq. i also got trolled by mean look + clear amulet gengar once because it blocked parting shot and trapped my spirit break screens grimmsnarl, but that was mostly my own fault because it was nicknamed "grimm slayer"
I have a question, would Dialga Origin be too much for OU? It is forced to hold an item which sure does give it's dragon and steel moves a 20% boost but is that enough? The fact that it has lowered attack in that form might mean that it has a harder time against special walls, but would it still be too strong and bulky? I was at first more invested in this idea because I didnt realize that the adamant crystal still did the 20% boost. But I still wanted to get this idea out there even if it is unlikely to happen. But what would you folk think? I would make a thread in itself about this but I would need approval, if this is something more people would want to talk about I will ask the council. Was more just something I was wondering.. is a base 90 speed 150 special attack dragon with a good movepool but also forced to run an item that gives a boost that is less than a life orb.. is that too much for OU?
Yes, 150 Special Attack is way too much. Fairies die to Flash Cannon and it has enough coverage for Steels.
252 SpA Adamant Crystal Dialga-Origin Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gholdengo: 153-180 (48.5 - 57.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes
Yes
Dialga even in that form has too much bulk + resistances + coverage to fuck with pretty much every special tank/wall besides Blissey & Chansey who are complete trash this gen and Ting-Lu who gets worn down without Rest or Wish support. Bulk up set is also likely too hard to kill especially with Tera. No point in trying this when there are more urgent matters.
There is literally nothing wrong with Leppa + Revival Blessing seeing as it requires you to run one of two shitmons and only brings threats back to half health. It's only ever been a problem in literally a no rules fanfic metagame
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The answer to "Would [x uber] be too much for OU?" is almost always a resounding yes. Zamazenta is the lone exception because it's probably the weakest box legend since kyuB. Though I guess if Deoxys-Defense returned it'd probably be okay, especially if DLC gives us good hazard removal outside of Tusk/Corv/Hat
Technically most ubers could be checked in OU but it would make the meta too centralizing and restricting. As I said in the post I originally started writing not knowing that the crystal gave a boost still and when I did realize I still felt like saying it even though I felt quite sure it would be too much. Would it still be if the item didn’t boost anything? Either way I am never really a person who wants ubers in OU it was more just a genuine question.
Are you sure about this? Right now, the worst ubers (those that are D or Unranked in the VR), are mostly those that have been banned from OU, like Annihilape, Espathra, Palafin, and Magearna, mons that have been proven to be nigh uncheckable in OU and broken.
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I mean it's technically true, as long as you only have to check one at a time and don't mind making your team overall worse to deal with that one mon. Like just running down a list of Ubers mon in arbitrary order of viability.
Zacian C - countered by quagsire and clodsire, checked by corviknight, scarfed users.
Koraidon - Countered by Skeledirge, Dodonzo, Toxapex, alomomola, checked by scarf users and specific Iron Valiant sets
Miraidon - Countered by Blissey, checked by clodsire, ting-lu
Eteranus - Countered by Ting-lu and Blissey, checked by Garg, Dragapult
Kyogre - Countered by Blissey, checked by Amoongus
Groudon - Countered by Dondonzo, checked by Lando-T, pelipper,
You kind of get the point by now.
The weird thing about ubers is that for the most part, excluding stuff like Lugia and Giratina, cover legendaries are offensive in nature so the defensive check pool is largely the same as in OU. So while most of those mons make your team worse without a team with Zacian on it, if it was legal you'd be able to deal with it. Would it be a huge hassle? Absolutely. Which is why they're ubers. It's also why ubers is even without tera/dynamax an overly aggressive format, because up there broken absolutely checks broken.
> Are you sure about this? Right now, the worst ubers (those that are D or Unranked in the VR), are mostly those that have been banned from OU, like Annihilape, Espathra, Palafin, and Magearna, mons that have been proven to be nigh uncheckable in OU and broken.
None of them were uncheckable. All of them were overly burdensome to check. There's a difference. No reasonable person thinks that having to jam blissey or toxapex on every team to check Fluttermane makes for a good format, but it's technically doable.
Zacian C - countered by quagsire and clodsire, checked by corviknight, scarfed users.
Koraidon - Countered by Skeledirge, Dodonzo, Toxapex, alomomola, checked by scarf users and specific Iron Valiant sets
Miraidon - Countered by Blissey, checked by clodsire, ting-lu
Eteranus - Countered by Ting-lu and Blissey, checked by Garg, Dragapult
Kyogre - Countered by Blissey, checked by Amoongus
Groudon - Countered by Dondonzo, checked by Lando-T, pelipper,
You kind of get the point by now.
The weird thing about ubers is that for the most part, excluding stuff like Lugia and Giratina, cover legendaries are offensive in nature so the defensive check pool is largely the same as in OU. So while most of those mons make your team worse without a team with Zacian on it, if it was legal you'd be able to deal with it. Would it be a huge hassle? Absolutely. Which is why they're ubers. It's also why ubers is even without tera/dynamax an overly aggressive format, because up there broken absolutely checks broken.
> Are you sure about this? Right now, the worst ubers (those that are D or Unranked in the VR), are mostly those that have been banned from OU, like Annihilape, Espathra, Palafin, and Magearna, mons that have been proven to be nigh uncheckable in OU and broken.
None of them were uncheckable. All of them were overly burdensome to check. There's a difference. No reasonable person thinks that having to jam blissey or toxapex on every team to check Fluttermane makes for a good format, but it's technically doable.
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252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey in Rain: 393-463 (55 - 64.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Lolno. And in what world is amoonguss a check.
You are right that none of the mons are uncheckable, definitely, but, to some extent the mons can't be countered by things in OU.
Take Zacian for example, without Tera, it can beat both of its supposed counters in Quagsire and Clodsire if it runs Trailblaze (for Quag) or Behemoth Blade (for Clod)
Or Koraidon, that without Tera, can use its Band set to beat every mon you named
Or Miraidon, that without Tera, can use its Substitute Double Dance set to beat Blissey
Or Eternatus, that without Tera, can use its phys def set + Toxic to beat Ting-Lu and Blissey
Or Groudon, that without Tera, can use its Choice Band set to beat Dondozo
All of these sets are possible without tera, beat their counter in a 1v1 where the counter has max defenses, and they are all entirely usable against the rest of the Ubers Meta.
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