NOC JOAT 10 Game Thread [Completed, GG Mafia]

This post is mostly me going over everything again, knowing my biggest reads are now all dead.

Day 1 overview by page, filtering out jokes and not-serious votes when I can.
Page 1: RVS / LHF
Page 2: Neon says Ehmcee and Haruno are sorta-clear, but gambler's fallacy logic. I go after Haruno for present-but-inactive.
Page 3: memeing. Also pulsar is new
Page 4: I suggest hypoclaiming future inspects. From memory, this is not agreed upon by many, and mostly not done. Zippy tries to paint a target on his own back, claiming he'd go after someone he didn't play with and with a low post count. I disagree with the postcount thing, and zippy gets a little defensive.
Page 5: Celever discusses my hypoclaim idea some. Poetry by others moving anything coming of it to another page.
Page 6: Ehmcee doesn't get the hypoclaim AFTER inspecting standard strat. LS argues with Zippy.
Page 7: Zippy doubles down on going after inactives despite the warnings that it's not a sound strategy. Celever offers a deeper explanation of the game theory on who to vote.
Page 8: Zippy triples down... gets a bit defensive. I remark on hero plays not working, referencing the painting a target from page 4.
Page 9: Zippy goes after Haruno, I follow. My list of 4 categories players fall in. Celever defends Zippy's heroing.
Page 10: Stuff about the guy who ghosted us, and about Psy's absence being why there's 10 pages, not 100.
Page 11: Neon doing his chart that records reads thing. Skipper townreads Celever and null reads Zippy. Celever sort-of agrees with the logic, and then Zippy scumreads Celever.
Page 12: Zippy elaborates on scumreading Celever. Banter. Celever asks Zippy thoughts on Ehmcee. I KNEW that somewhere, Celever asked me about my hypoclaim impending inspects thing, and here's where I notice it! I explain.
Page 13: More elaboration on the hypoclaim future thing. Celever asks if anyone wants to read Ehmcee.
Page 14: Neon gets a bit angry at pulsar. Feels like a joke, but it involved a vote, so I'm bringing it up. Celever gets where my hypofuture thing is coming from, and politely disagrees. At time of review, I think this is where the topic mostly drops? Huh, I've seen a few posts from pulsar by now, but contributing less than Haruno... part of why I went after Haruno. Zippy arguing with people, seeming to miss some stuff.
Page 15: Huge "who to towncore with" post by Celever. In retrospect, I think this might have been a slip that he's JOAT, but I didn't catch it until re-reading. I was trying to NOT guess so I couldn't slip it to the mafia. LS reads no less than 6 people as potential towncore, 2 each under 3 options. Pulsar, Neon, Celever, me (AG), zippy, haruno. Skipper anti-cores me and Zippy.
Page 16: Celever asks for elaboration on Skipper's hypotowncore. Also LS's. Ehmcee indicates towncore with LS and Celever, and sorta scum-reads Zippy.
Page 17: Looks like Neon doesn't count a number of the reads already made. List is 6 entries long, and he remarks on it. Skipper explains his reads. Celever remarks on how I seem different this game. I'm marking as green there, because of my being mafia a lot, so different is good. Pulsar says Celever and LS would be his core.
Page 18: Zippy remarks on LS's comment re: Haruno's activity, and Celever's read-ish on me. Haruno speaks well of 2 non-players as well as Ehmcee and Zippy.
Page 19: JALMONT subs in. Banter.
Page 20: Banter. Neon votes Zippy. Celever makes a huge case against Ehmcee.
Page 21: Neon votes Ehmcee. Celever hounds people for opinions on his case against Ehmcee. Pulsar votes Ehmcee. Zippy seems a bit against the new Ehmcee wagon? I indicate I could follow the wagon on Ehmcee, but want a votecount first.
Page 22: Celever notes some contingent meta reads on active players. JALMONT votes Haruno. I give a huge reads list, too much to recount all in this summary, have a link to the post. From my vote list at the time, skipper is next. JALMONT townreads Zippy and Celever. Celever remarks on my opinions on both idlers and on Haruno. Going from memory and not looking forward, this is part of my 4 categories thing on page 9. Celever asks for skipper reads.
Page 23: skipper joins the wagon on Ehmcee. Huge reads list, have another link.
Page 24: Ehmcee's response to Celever's case. Ah, here's where I refer back to page 9 (per the summary of page 22). My reasoning for my reads list was based on active solving, and the activity thing was just a correlation. I'm down for voting either Ehmcee or Haruno. Ehmcee votes Haruno. Celever asks for responses to Ehmcee's response. Pulsar's fine with both Zippy and Haruno, but NOT with Ehmcee.
Page 25: Pulsar thinks Zippy has been creeping up as mafia candidate. LS is against both wagons on Ehmcee and Haruno. Prefers one as a better shot. I'm against skipper, pulsar, and Ehmcee. In that order. Celever unvotes Ehmcee, to Zippy's confusion. Given the vig kill, I think I can guess why, now.
Page 26: Neon and JALMONT vote each other.
Page 27: Zippy votes JALMONT. I switch from Haruno to Ehmcee. Brief but complete reads list from Celever, who then remarks on how Haruno's posting didn't improve like I thought.
Page 28: Ehmcee votes me. Just noting, he died to the JOAT. Not sure what to make of Celever's chart of interactions because I have no idea what criteria were used to make it. I admit my error re: Haruno. Neon votes Zippy. LS votes Ehmcee. Ehmcee townreads Zippy, Neon, Celever. Pulsar is against Ehmcee, Jalmont, and LS.
Page 29: A No Vote wagon starts. Banter.
Page 30: A whole page of banter, mostly.
Page 31: LS miscalculates evens as LYLO/CYLO, when it's actually just MYLO. Celever brings up vig shot. DANGIT CELEVER! In Matrices, you were only discernable as a power role when you outed yourself to clear our vote target. Seriously, looking back, I feel like your death was Death Note NOC all over again!
Page 32: Celever and Zippy vote Ehmcee. Celever and LS then unvote because vote-1.
Page 33: Getting close to EoD madness. Celever votes me; Jalmont votes skipper. Zippy's list, in descending goodness. LS switches to Haruno.
Page 34: JALMONT and Zippy vote me, then Zippy. Original vote on me was for my suggestion of a no vote, which was later explained as worsening mafia odds of hitting JOAT or someone getting greenchecked.
Page 35: Pulsar votes Zippy, then Ehmcee. Votes on Skipper and Zippy, though those are later removed.
Page 36: Forgot this wasn't just wrap-up. EoD vote chaos between Haruno and Ehmcee.

Things to note:
1) I will never learn that this is a time sink that doesn't do as much as it costs in time.
2) of the remaining players, skipper and Zippy seem to look the most odd to me, from this. Some of this is gut, some of it is early-game behavior... I guess they're rubbing me the wrong way?
3) LS seems a bit indecisive, but trying. Neon seems to be being Neon.
4) JALMONT seems to have lower posts, but dense contribution.
5) Pulsar has low contribution.
6) It was a TvT wagon, so a bunch of "voted town" stuff should probably be discarded.

My reads:
me-tier: me (AG)
Town: JALMONT, LS, Neon
final vote: Pulsar. If not Zippy, then probably him.
scummy: skipper, Zippy.

vote ZippyDoo200

Most information, least odds of town IMO. Can be persuaded to go for skipper first.
 
Aura Guardian said:
This post is mostly me going over everything again, knowing my biggest reads are now all dead.

Day 1 overview by page, filtering out jokes and not-serious votes when I can.
Page 1: RVS / LHF
Page 2: Neon says Ehmcee and Haruno are sorta-clear, but gambler's fallacy logic. I go after Haruno for present-but-inactive.
Page 3: memeing. Also pulsar is new
Page 4: I suggest hypoclaiming future inspects. From memory, this is not agreed upon by many, and mostly not done. Zippy tries to paint a target on his own back, claiming he'd go after someone he didn't play with and with a low post count. I disagree with the postcount thing, and zippy gets a little defensive.
Page 5: Celever discusses my hypoclaim idea some. Poetry by others moving anything coming of it to another page.
Page 6: Ehmcee doesn't get the hypoclaim AFTER inspecting standard strat. LS argues with Zippy.
Page 7: Zippy doubles down on going after inactives despite the warnings that it's not a sound strategy. Celever offers a deeper explanation of the game theory on who to vote.
Page 8: Zippy triples down... gets a bit defensive. I remark on hero plays not working, referencing the painting a target from page 4.
Page 9: Zippy goes after Haruno, I follow. My list of 4 categories players fall in. Celever defends Zippy's heroing.
Page 10: Stuff about the guy who ghosted us, and about Psy's absence being why there's 10 pages, not 100.
Page 11: Neon doing his chart that records reads thing. Skipper townreads Celever and null reads Zippy. Celever sort-of agrees with the logic, and then Zippy scumreads Celever.
Page 12: Zippy elaborates on scumreading Celever. Banter. Celever asks Zippy thoughts on Ehmcee. I KNEW that somewhere, Celever asked me about my hypoclaim impending inspects thing, and here's where I notice it! I explain.
Page 13: More elaboration on the hypoclaim future thing. Celever asks if anyone wants to read Ehmcee.
Page 14: Neon gets a bit angry at pulsar. Feels like a joke, but it involved a vote, so I'm bringing it up. Celever gets where my hypofuture thing is coming from, and politely disagrees. At time of review, I think this is where the topic mostly drops? Huh, I've seen a few posts from pulsar by now, but contributing less than Haruno... part of why I went after Haruno. Zippy arguing with people, seeming to miss some stuff.
Page 15: Huge "who to towncore with" post by Celever. In retrospect, I think this might have been a slip that he's JOAT, but I didn't catch it until re-reading. I was trying to NOT guess so I couldn't slip it to the mafia. LS reads no less than 6 people as potential towncore, 2 each under 3 options. Pulsar, Neon, Celever, me (AG), zippy, haruno. Skipper anti-cores me and Zippy.
Page 16: Celever asks for elaboration on Skipper's hypotowncore. Also LS's. Ehmcee indicates towncore with LS and Celever, and sorta scum-reads Zippy.
Page 17: Looks like Neon doesn't count a number of the reads already made. List is 6 entries long, and he remarks on it. Skipper explains his reads. Celever remarks on how I seem different this game. I'm marking as green there, because of my being mafia a lot, so different is good. Pulsar says Celever and LS would be his core.
Page 18: Zippy remarks on LS's comment re: Haruno's activity, and Celever's read-ish on me. Haruno speaks well of 2 non-players as well as Ehmcee and Zippy.
Page 19: JALMONT subs in. Banter.
Page 20: Banter. Neon votes Zippy. Celever makes a huge case against Ehmcee.
Page 21: Neon votes Ehmcee. Celever hounds people for opinions on his case against Ehmcee. Pulsar votes Ehmcee. Zippy seems a bit against the new Ehmcee wagon? I indicate I could follow the wagon on Ehmcee, but want a votecount first.
Page 22: Celever notes some contingent meta reads on active players. JALMONT votes Haruno. I give a huge reads list, too much to recount all in this summary, have a link to the post. From my vote list at the time, skipper is next. JALMONT townreads Zippy and Celever. Celever remarks on my opinions on both idlers and on Haruno. Going from memory and not looking forward, this is part of my 4 categories thing on page 9. Celever asks for skipper reads.
Page 23: skipper joins the wagon on Ehmcee. Huge reads list, have another link.
Page 24: Ehmcee's response to Celever's case. Ah, here's where I refer back to page 9 (per the summary of page 22). My reasoning for my reads list was based on active solving, and the activity thing was just a correlation. I'm down for voting either Ehmcee or Haruno. Ehmcee votes Haruno. Celever asks for responses to Ehmcee's response. Pulsar's fine with both Zippy and Haruno, but NOT with Ehmcee.
Page 25: Pulsar thinks Zippy has been creeping up as mafia candidate. LS is against both wagons on Ehmcee and Haruno. Prefers one as a better shot. I'm against skipper, pulsar, and Ehmcee. In that order. Celever unvotes Ehmcee, to Zippy's confusion. Given the vig kill, I think I can guess why, now.
Page 26: Neon and JALMONT vote each other.
Page 27: Zippy votes JALMONT. I switch from Haruno to Ehmcee. Brief but complete reads list from Celever, who then remarks on how Haruno's posting didn't improve like I thought.
Page 28: Ehmcee votes me. Just noting, he died to the JOAT. Not sure what to make of Celever's chart of interactions because I have no idea what criteria were used to make it. I admit my error re: Haruno. Neon votes Zippy. LS votes Ehmcee. Ehmcee townreads Zippy, Neon, Celever. Pulsar is against Ehmcee, Jalmont, and LS.
Page 29: A No Vote wagon starts. Banter.
Page 30: A whole page of banter, mostly.
Page 31: LS miscalculates evens as LYLO/CYLO, when it's actually just MYLO. Celever brings up vig shot. DANGIT CELEVER! In Matrices, you were only discernable as a power role when you outed yourself to clear our vote target. Seriously, looking back, I feel like your death was Death Note NOC all over again!
Page 32: Celever and Zippy vote Ehmcee. Celever and LS then unvote because vote-1.
Page 33: Getting close to EoD madness. Celever votes me; Jalmont votes skipper. Zippy's list, in descending goodness. LS switches to Haruno.
Page 34: JALMONT and Zippy vote me, then Zippy. Original vote on me was for my suggestion of a no vote, which was later explained as worsening mafia odds of hitting JOAT or someone getting greenchecked.
Page 35: Pulsar votes Zippy, then Ehmcee. Votes on Skipper and Zippy, though those are later removed.
Page 36: Forgot this wasn't just wrap-up. EoD vote chaos between Haruno and Ehmcee.

Things to note:
1) I will never learn that this is a time sink that doesn't do as much as it costs in time.
2) of the remaining players, skipper and Zippy seem to look the most odd to me, from this. Some of this is gut, some of it is early-game behavior... I guess they're rubbing me the wrong way?
3) LS seems a bit indecisive, but trying. Neon seems to be being Neon.
4) JALMONT seems to have lower posts, but dense contribution.
5) Pulsar has low contribution.
6) It was a TvT wagon, so a bunch of "voted town" stuff should probably be discarded.

My reads:
me-tier: me (AG)
Town: JALMONT, LS, Neon
final vote: Pulsar. If not Zippy, then probably him.
scummy: skipper, Zippy.

vote ZippyDoo200

Most information, least odds of town IMO. Can be persuaded to go for skipper first.
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thank u for reading back. however im a girl so please dont call me he :)
will think tonight & make a post tomorrow about my reads (will be the biggest contribution ive made so far)
 
The big issue with your reads list, and you did this last game in the exact same fashion, is that you assume I am scum and then extrapolate from that and view other people's actions as scummy or towny. Not a bad practice mind you, I just think you start and stop there.

Also, a lot of the stuff you put in red aren't definitively scummy at all. Like going after Haruno there are many instances where a town would go after another town. I understand you account for this mind you, but this line of thinking leads you to make mountains out of mole hills.

Your Day 2 reads list last game for reference.

Aura Guardian said:
Quoted for reference.

Dead Town:
Duskfall98, Lady Salamence

Me:
Aura Guardian, of course

Probably Town:
Ehmcee, shadowpea, Spiderz, Thunder~BALLZ - from Zippy's desire to vote them.

Townlean:
ImaginaryNeon - the effort he puts into that list feels townie
Laurel -

Null:
HydrogenHydreigon - no real impression

Lean Scum (by default)
Fame, Haruno - others feel townie, they're lower in Null than Fame, so putting them here. And they're on the main wagons, so given my sus on Zippy and how I think I saw through obfuscation, they're here.

Probably Scum:
Whydon - Feels like Powerwolf/Openwolf
ZippyDoo200 - Feels like Deepwolf

__________________________________

Anyway, that's my reads list.
Click to expand...
 
ZippyDoo200 said:
The big issue with your reads list, and you did this last game in the exact same fashion, is that you assume I am scum and then extrapolate from that and view other people's actions as scummy or towny. Not a bad practice mind you, I just think you start and stop there.

Also, a lot of the stuff you put in red aren't definitively scummy at all. Like going after Haruno there are many instances where a town would go after another town. I understand you account for this mind you, but this line of thinking leads you to make mountains out of mole hills.
Click to expand...
Red wrt actions simply means something that treats the subject of the action as scum, not that the action itself is scummy. Green actions were very rare, but were for treating someone as not scum. See Point 7 regarding the going after Haruno. I was doing that to look for correlation and sudden changes.
 
Aura Guardian said:
Red wrt actions simply means something that treats the subject of the action as scum, not that the action itself is scummy. Green actions were very rare, but were for treating someone as not scum. See Point 7 regarding the going after Haruno. I was doing that to look for correlation and sudden changes.
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Why is JALMONT getting townread then?
 
JALMONT said:
My only read is I have a strong Town Read on Celever and Mild Town Read on Zippy
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For context, this was posted a few posts after Aura Guardian posted their Day 1 read list.

JALMONT said:
ACtually 1 upside to no vote is that unless we are very unlucky it guarantees JOAT inspect which is pretty nice although idk what the math is on that

idk i really don't feel strongly about anyone

unvote
vote zippy
Click to expand...

Is this just how you talk or did your feelings/thoughts change?
 
ZippyDoo200 said:
How are they looking for a solution though?
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Willing to change his mind in the face of new evidence, posts that you didn't quote... was against both town votes...

There's also the fact that we need to get 2/3 of the next votes right, and I already have 3 people I suspect a lot more.

Do you want to make a case he should take your place in the vote?
 
Aura Guardian said:
Willing to change his mind in the face of new evidence, posts that you didn't quote... was against both town votes...

There's also the fact that we need to get 2/3 of the next votes right, and I already have 3 people I suspect a lot more.

Do you want to make a case he should take your place in the vote?
Click to expand...
I am responding to this more proper, along with a lot of stuff, but I just want to have it come out good. So I need some time.

What posts didn't I quote that showed him changing his mind in the face of new evidence? And what was the context.
 
ZippyDoo200 said:
I am responding to this more proper, along with a lot of stuff, but I just want to have it come out good. So I need some time.

What posts didn't I quote that showed him changing his mind in the face of new evidence? And what was the context.
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in unquoted 603 and in one you quoted, you glazed over your arguments with him.
709, 842, 846, 862. Some solid vote strategies, including pressuring (including me) for reactions.

It's not the length, it's the quality and density. His posts are mostly to the point. Which is more useful: a huge wall of text, or something that gets the point across in just a few words?

... yeah, my huge wall there was a waste of my time. Doubt I'll learn, since I was doing that since before the revival.
 
ZippyDoo200 said:
JALMONT

Do you have anything to say now? It's been a whole day and 3 dead people. I'm thinking Aura Guardian is mafia based on comparing how they voted in 4 previous games compared to this one.
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ImaginaryNeon said:
I dunno right now.
Just feels...weird that he ain't being as proactive as in Assist Trophy.
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look guys I'm not on my computer 24/7 so I can't post 24/7 as a i have a job hobbies and other real life obligations. i do try and keep up with the game on mobile as best i can.

stop worrying about what i'm doing and worry about yourself. theres plenty of stuff in this game that you can think about that doesn't involve me having to do the heavy lifting for you. if you think i am mafia you can vote me. thx
ZippyDoo200 said:
Is this just how you talk or did your feelings/thoughts change?
Click to expand...
the answer is left for an exercise for the reader. sometime you do make irritating posts though, like today's first post. i try and let it slide as much as possible
 
Aura Guardian said:
I agree with the sentiment, and after going after Whydon D2 last game, I can't really judge you for it... but I think he's really just a town clown, not a mafia.
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Aura Guardian said:
This post is mostly me going over everything again, knowing my biggest reads are now all dead.

Day 1 overview by page, filtering out jokes and not-serious votes when I can.
Page 1: RVS / LHF
Page 2: Neon says Ehmcee and Haruno are sorta-clear, but gambler's fallacy logic. I go after Haruno for present-but-inactive.
Page 3: memeing. Also pulsar is new
Page 4: I suggest hypoclaiming future inspects. From memory, this is not agreed upon by many, and mostly not done. Zippy tries to paint a target on his own back, claiming he'd go after someone he didn't play with and with a low post count. I disagree with the postcount thing, and zippy gets a little defensive.
Page 5: Celever discusses my hypoclaim idea some. Poetry by others moving anything coming of it to another page.
Page 6: Ehmcee doesn't get the hypoclaim AFTER inspecting standard strat. LS argues with Zippy.
Page 7: Zippy doubles down on going after inactives despite the warnings that it's not a sound strategy. Celever offers a deeper explanation of the game theory on who to vote.
Page 8: Zippy triples down... gets a bit defensive. I remark on hero plays not working, referencing the painting a target from page 4.
Page 9: Zippy goes after Haruno, I follow. My list of 4 categories players fall in. Celever defends Zippy's heroing.
Page 10: Stuff about the guy who ghosted us, and about Psy's absence being why there's 10 pages, not 100.
Page 11: Neon doing his chart that records reads thing. Skipper townreads Celever and null reads Zippy. Celever sort-of agrees with the logic, and then Zippy scumreads Celever.
Page 12: Zippy elaborates on scumreading Celever. Banter. Celever asks Zippy thoughts on Ehmcee. I KNEW that somewhere, Celever asked me about my hypoclaim impending inspects thing, and here's where I notice it! I explain.
Page 13: More elaboration on the hypoclaim future thing. Celever asks if anyone wants to read Ehmcee.
Page 14: Neon gets a bit angry at pulsar. Feels like a joke, but it involved a vote, so I'm bringing it up. Celever gets where my hypofuture thing is coming from, and politely disagrees. At time of review, I think this is where the topic mostly drops? Huh, I've seen a few posts from pulsar by now, but contributing less than Haruno... part of why I went after Haruno. Zippy arguing with people, seeming to miss some stuff.
Page 15: Huge "who to towncore with" post by Celever. In retrospect, I think this might have been a slip that he's JOAT, but I didn't catch it until re-reading. I was trying to NOT guess so I couldn't slip it to the mafia. LS reads no less than 6 people as potential towncore, 2 each under 3 options. Pulsar, Neon, Celever, me (AG), zippy, haruno. Skipper anti-cores me and Zippy.
Page 16: Celever asks for elaboration on Skipper's hypotowncore. Also LS's. Ehmcee indicates towncore with LS and Celever, and sorta scum-reads Zippy.
Page 17: Looks like Neon doesn't count a number of the reads already made. List is 6 entries long, and he remarks on it. Skipper explains his reads. Celever remarks on how I seem different this game. I'm marking as green there, because of my being mafia a lot, so different is good. Pulsar says Celever and LS would be his core.
Page 18: Zippy remarks on LS's comment re: Haruno's activity, and Celever's read-ish on me. Haruno speaks well of 2 non-players as well as Ehmcee and Zippy.
Page 19: JALMONT subs in. Banter.
Page 20: Banter. Neon votes Zippy. Celever makes a huge case against Ehmcee.
Page 21: Neon votes Ehmcee. Celever hounds people for opinions on his case against Ehmcee. Pulsar votes Ehmcee. Zippy seems a bit against the new Ehmcee wagon? I indicate I could follow the wagon on Ehmcee, but want a votecount first.
Page 22: Celever notes some contingent meta reads on active players. JALMONT votes Haruno. I give a huge reads list, too much to recount all in this summary, have a link to the post. From my vote list at the time, skipper is next. JALMONT townreads Zippy and Celever. Celever remarks on my opinions on both idlers and on Haruno. Going from memory and not looking forward, this is part of my 4 categories thing on page 9. Celever asks for skipper reads.
Page 23: skipper joins the wagon on Ehmcee. Huge reads list, have another link.
Page 24: Ehmcee's response to Celever's case. Ah, here's where I refer back to page 9 (per the summary of page 22). My reasoning for my reads list was based on active solving, and the activity thing was just a correlation. I'm down for voting either Ehmcee or Haruno. Ehmcee votes Haruno. Celever asks for responses to Ehmcee's response. Pulsar's fine with both Zippy and Haruno, but NOT with Ehmcee.
Page 25: Pulsar thinks Zippy has been creeping up as mafia candidate. LS is against both wagons on Ehmcee and Haruno. Prefers one as a better shot. I'm against skipper, pulsar, and Ehmcee. In that order. Celever unvotes Ehmcee, to Zippy's confusion. Given the vig kill, I think I can guess why, now.
Page 26: Neon and JALMONT vote each other.
Page 27: Zippy votes JALMONT. I switch from Haruno to Ehmcee. Brief but complete reads list from Celever, who then remarks on how Haruno's posting didn't improve like I thought.
Page 28: Ehmcee votes me. Just noting, he died to the JOAT. Not sure what to make of Celever's chart of interactions because I have no idea what criteria were used to make it. I admit my error re: Haruno. Neon votes Zippy. LS votes Ehmcee. Ehmcee townreads Zippy, Neon, Celever. Pulsar is against Ehmcee, Jalmont, and LS.
Page 29: A No Vote wagon starts. Banter.
Page 30: A whole page of banter, mostly.
Page 31: LS miscalculates evens as LYLO/CYLO, when it's actually just MYLO. Celever brings up vig shot. DANGIT CELEVER! In Matrices, you were only discernable as a power role when you outed yourself to clear our vote target. Seriously, looking back, I feel like your death was Death Note NOC all over again!
Page 32: Celever and Zippy vote Ehmcee. Celever and LS then unvote because vote-1.
Page 33: Getting close to EoD madness. Celever votes me; Jalmont votes skipper. Zippy's list, in descending goodness. LS switches to Haruno.
Page 34: JALMONT and Zippy vote me, then Zippy. Original vote on me was for my suggestion of a no vote, which was later explained as worsening mafia odds of hitting JOAT or someone getting greenchecked.
Page 35: Pulsar votes Zippy, then Ehmcee. Votes on Skipper and Zippy, though those are later removed.
Page 36: Forgot this wasn't just wrap-up. EoD vote chaos between Haruno and Ehmcee.

Things to note:
1) I will never learn that this is a time sink that doesn't do as much as it costs in time.
2) of the remaining players, skipper and Zippy seem to look the most odd to me, from this. Some of this is gut, some of it is early-game behavior... I guess they're rubbing me the wrong way?
3) LS seems a bit indecisive, but trying. Neon seems to be being Neon.
4) JALMONT seems to have lower posts, but dense contribution.
5) Pulsar has low contribution.
6) It was a TvT wagon, so a bunch of "voted town" stuff should probably be discarded.

My reads:
me-tier: me (AG)
Town: JALMONT, LS, Neon
final vote: Pulsar. If not Zippy, then probably him.
scummy: skipper, Zippy.

vote ZippyDoo200

Most information, least odds of town IMO. Can be persuaded to go for skipper first.
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so you changed your mind overnight?
 
i should be sleeping rn as i have to get up early but i'm trying my best here. That's a brutally unlucky night like my god I just knew the worst case scenario of celever JOAT (when I think literally every player in the game would otherwise have BG'd them).

anyways

i think the mafia is

skip and lady salamence
vote LS

skippergamez I'm very concerned about you. Can you run me through what was going through your mind when you were trying to unvote? Do you have any thoughts on this game after the night results. Looking forward to hearing from you. Cheers.
 
JALMONT said:
so you changed your mind overnight?
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I did a complete review of everything, on the understanding that I'd been wrong about two people (and right about another). I tried to not remember any conclusions I had before. Fresh start.

Also as part of reviewing, I skipped over jokes which meant the clowning thing is something I paid a lot less attention to. Upon reflection, I'm leaning more towards skipper than zippy on raw numbers right now, but I think ONE of zippy and pulsar is far more likely than skipper alone, and zippy's behavior seemed less good for the town. Around 5/10 vs 6/10, in an 8/10 is rand odds.

So, yes, I changed my mind.
 
JALMONT said:
i should be sleeping rn as i have to get up early but i'm trying my best here. That's a brutally unlucky night like my god I just knew the worst case scenario of celever JOAT (when I think literally every player in the game would otherwise have BG'd them).

anyways

i think the mafia is

skip and lady salamence
vote LS

skippergamez I'm very concerned about you. Can you run me through what was going through your mind when you were trying to unvote? Do you have any thoughts on this game after the night results. Looking forward to hearing from you. Cheers.
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You posted this as I was typing. Since you're voting LS and skip is on my list, we don't risk a single mafia hammering for a 1v1 trade to force us into CYLO/LYLO.
Unvote, vote skippergamez.
Mentally, I'm still a bit more for resolving that pairing I named, but this works for me, too.

But I seriously don't think LS is mafia.
 
well we have a lot of time to debate it. i'm thinking over EOD and tbh I'm not sure there's anything really concrete I read out of it. I think pulsar is town

i'll be gone until afternoon tomorrow. good night.
 
Aura Guardian said:
in unquoted 603 and in one you quoted, you glazed over your arguments with him.
709, 842, 846, 862. Some solid vote strategies, including pressuring (including me) for reactions.

It's not the length, it's the quality and density. His posts are mostly to the point. Which is more useful: a huge wall of text, or something that gets the point across in just a few words?

... yeah, my huge wall there was a waste of my time. Doubt I'll learn, since I was doing that since before the revival.
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To clarify quickly. I did not quote 603 because I was trying to highlight the difference of how JALMONT started off with strong reads, and then ended up later on saying they had no strong reads. Their actual read on me, and the reasoning I was not highlighting.

JALMONT said:
Wow you seem really mad lol. Everything good?

didn’t ask anyone to care. You are welcome to vote me if you want

remember I subbed in so you should show a little more gratitude because otherwise there would be no posts from this slot…
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This has no "changing of mind." In fact his "You are welcome to vote me if you want" is a little scummy from a wants it more perspective. This is NAI.

JALMONT said:
Let’s not vote
Unvote
No vote
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Not alignment indicative.

JALMONT said:
unvote
vote ag
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I think you are focusing a lot on this vote and trying hard to town-read someone who previously voted you. JALMONT voted you and then got off, but they provided no reasoning

JALMONT said:
ACtually 1 upside to no vote is that unless we are very unlucky it guarantees JOAT inspect which is pretty nice although idk what the math is on that

idk i really don't feel strongly about anyone

unvote
vote zippy
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Talking theory is NAI so I don't think its worth putting stock into.

JALMONT said:
let's go back to skip

unvote
vote skip
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My issue is that his actual votes have scum-equity (purposefully staying off the two main town wagons and making it known you are against them).
You said this was towny, but I view it as scummy. It comes off as TMI from JALMONT and not wanting to vote off a town. I say this because they go on to vote skipper without actually giving any reasoning.

I understand motivation is a factor, but from a town perspective I do not see ANY logical or believable progression from JALMONT. JALMONT in previous town games (i looked) usually voted within the top two wagons. (They also usually stick to one main target on Day 1, voting them till the end). In this one he chooses an inactive town and tries to pressure them for information.

From TOWN-Jalmont, I would expect some kind of deliberation, statement or thought on Emchee and Haruno as they were the two main wagons. Again, I understand motivation is a factor but this is a radical departure not only activity wise but also vote wise.
 
Going to bed. I spent a lot of time reading old games (mainly just searching through smogon) and analyzing the wagons of each.

I have a bunch of notes, some of which I've said. Tomorrow I will read everything again and explain things coherently.
 
Can y’all not vote/hammer for someone who’s town lmaoooo

I unvoted last night cause I just got online, I was reading the day, and I was legitimately unaware that it was EoD in 3 minutes. I unvoted so I could get a sense where the thread was at the moment, and because JALMONT pinged me about his “I’m worried about you” BS, I was like “shit, maybe Ehmcee isn’t the best”, cause I was halfway done with reading the last like 10 pages.

My maf reads are: AG and Jalmont

they’re conviently both scumreading me, putting the threadstate in the WRONG direction, by voting me out, they can win the game

LS is null, Zippy is scumlean

Neon, pulsar, and I are town

vote Aura Guardian
 
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