Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v2 [Update on Post #5186]

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DynamaxBestMeta said:
Hoping cross forum replying works, but asking this here because og forum is tera but im not saying anything related to tera

Why, given our meta of literally no sleep options, do we still hold onto sleep clause, given its complexity? Honestly thought we just banned sleep at this point.
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Huh?

1) There are a number of good spore users. Amoongus is still kicking, Breloom's lurking the shadows. Lower tiers have Brute Bonnet, Foongus, Toedscool and Toedscruel.

2) Nintendo can and will just slam a 165 base speed mon with spore for shits and giggles. Why would we remove sleep clause if we are just going to have to re-implement it down the road?
 
DynamaxBestMeta said:
Why, given our meta of literally no sleep options, do we still hold onto sleep clause, given its complexity? Honestly thought we just banned sleep at this point.
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Putting aside the fact that this meta has multiple sleep users who have either been in OU or had an OU niche from the word go, I think you kinda have this backwards. Rules like this aren't something that we have to keep justifying and demonstrating the need for. Rather, it goes that we need a reason to remove something. If something is the way that it is, whether that is banned or unbanned or modded or what have you, then you need to demonstrate why it's better for the metagame if it changes. Sleep Clause is not something we need to continually justify or else we let it slip through our fingers, but something that's part of the game now that we have to demonstrate is uncompetitive in some way before removing.

Also, I think removing it would be major booty butt cheeks and make the game more obnoxious, so let's keep it for my sanity.
 
SpritePony said:
Gen 8 OU would like a word with you.
No, seriously. That metagame is SOLVED. There's no real room for any innovation. It's like GSC OU, but worse.
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GSC is not what I would called stagnant. These days there is debate on Zapdos being no. 1 over Lax due to it being just as important if not moreso than it. The meta of GSC in contrast to what outsiders think of it is rather offensively oriented. Its no Gen 9 but most of GSC consists of Lax/Zap/Cloy with Explosion, Spikes, offensive leads, etc. Its a different brand of offense compared to the 1 lead + 5 sweepers structure of modern gens.

As for Gen 8, its still fairly recent, having been an old gen for less than a year, which is why the meta feels the same months later. Even then Gen 8 has been seeing some meta shifts. Developments like Modest Pult have arose due to the bulkier nature of the tier. I personally don’t believe in a stagnant metagame, the term implies that the meta is completely solved which is not true. Even if the top threats of the tier are solved, there is always room for innovation of spreads, moveset/item choices, and niche picks that rise in popularity. Hariyama is slowly rising in ADV due to having the rare Knock Off and being a check to tier king Ttar. Clef went from a solid lower tier mon in DPP to debatably the best Pokemon in the tier. Cofagrigus rose due to its ability to set up Tspikes, spam Wisp, and spinblock Drill.

Gen 9 doesn’t feel stagnant to me. While the tier has limited options for hazard removal, Tera has arguably allowed for more mons and more sets to find viability. Lower tier mons like Frosmoth, Meloetta, and others can find success in the tier. Even tier king Gambit has potential for innovation. Options like Tera Grass or Substitute come to mind. Innovation isn’t overnight, its a steady process.
 
Metas can have stagnant periods, especially affecting the most recent old gen in the first year or so of the cgou, but pokémon has simply too many variables to be solved. 151 mons only 4 top tiers required in your team rgby has changes, so will this metagame. Also ik we should not tier for the future but also this gen will be literally the opposite of stagnant in a month or two LOL i believe in monkidori ou threat
 
Strange question, but which do you guys think is better: Beartic or Cetitan

Assume the Beartic set is this:
Beartic @ Life Orb
Ability: Slush Rush
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Icicle Crash
- Close Combat/Trailblaze
- Earthquake

and the Cetitan set is this:
Cetitan @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Slush Rush
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 18 HP / 252 Atk / 238 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Ice Shard
- Icicle Crash
- Earthquake

Cetitan has priority and more bulk, but Beartic has better coverage, more immediate power and potential to sweep outside snow. Can't decide which one to try and use.

Edit: Decided on Cetitan, Any input would be cool tho.
 
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Wesley23675 said:
but it isn't thursday yet
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RaikouLover said:
This meta is garbage. Every battle is Tusk Gambit Valiant. Tera 50/50s everywhere. I can’t remember such a “stable” crapshoot of a meta. There is no room for any heat right now.
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this meta is actually above average as ou metas go. gen 1 and 2 ou are hot garbage and the only real continued interest in them is as a sort of grotesque curiosity, like a game-theory version of the mütter museum. gen 5 ou is a living reminder that we failed as a society to stop climate change. i don't even know what the fuck is going on with gen 6 ou, but last i checked cofagrigus was higher than lando-t on the vr, so either something is profoundly wrong or it's a secret hidden gem that i should probably check out. gen 7 ou was just broken-checks-broken throughout the whole meta, which is why it's been almost universally abandoned over the past 2 gens in favor of natdex, which is even more ridiculous but at least they're self-aware about it. gen 8 ou is just tic-tac-toe. gens 3, 4, and maybe 6 are really the only ou metas that are tolerable in retrospect. this meta could be there too, but they keep adding new mons faster than we can remove them
 
DaddyBuzzwole said:
this meta is actually above average as ou metas go. gen 1 and 2 ou are hot garbage and the only real continued interest in them is as a sort of grotesque curiosity, like a game-theory version of the mütter museum.
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Gen 1 and 2 are flawed but unique and interesting metagames that make the most of limited tools compared to later gens. The fact these metas are still evolving even now is a testiment to what is still possible there.

DaddyBuzzwole said:
i don't even know what the fuck is going on with gen 6 ou, but last i checked cofagrigus was higher than lando-t on the vr, so either something is profoundly wrong or it's a secret hidden gem that i should probably check out.
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So you dont even have familiarity with gen6 and felt the need to judge it because... A lower tier mon was ranked higher than lando?

DaddyBuzzwole said:
gen 7 ou was just broken-checks-broken throughout the whole meta, which is why it's been almost universally abandoned over the past 2 gens in favor of natdex, which is even more ridiculous but at least they're self-aware about it.
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And this is putting your foot in your mouth. Gen7 ou is one of the more well liked past gen formats as far as recent gens goes. And no it wasnt broken check broken. Not to the level of bw, or even this gen.

And...

DaddyBuzzwole said:
this meta is actually above average as ou metas go.
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Survey results sure dont agree with you.
 
I dipped out halfway through Gen VII so no comment there, but I was in the trenches and shit during all of Gen VI and it was a blast. Lots of team and Pokémon variety (66 mons ranked B- or higher on the current VR list, over 100 overall), you could run heat (my favorite team I'm pretty sure AM built was a Volt Switch squad running Cobalion), actual good hazard removal but it wasn't too widespread or too brainless so you had to position yourself correctly and it was rewarding. Good tier, don't slander it. Still think banning Aegislash was a mistake but nothing is truly perfect in this world.
 
DaddyBuzzwole said:
this meta is actually above average as ou metas go. gen 1 and 2 ou are hot garbage and the only real continued interest in them is as a sort of grotesque curiosity, like a game-theory version of the mütter museum. gen 5 ou is a living reminder that we failed as a society to stop climate change. i don't even know what the fuck is going on with gen 6 ou, but last i checked cofagrigus was higher than lando-t on the vr, so either something is profoundly wrong or it's a secret hidden gem that i should probably check out. gen 7 ou was just broken-checks-broken throughout the whole meta, which is why it's been almost universally abandoned over the past 2 gens in favor of natdex, which is even more ridiculous but at least they're self-aware about it. gen 8 ou is just tic-tac-toe. gens 3, 4, and maybe 6 are really the only ou metas that are tolerable in retrospect. this meta could be there too, but they keep adding new mons faster than we can remove them
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Tspikes + good defensive typing (knock not withstanding)
 
Schpoonman said:
I'm sorry, did I come in to see a take that said Gen 5 was superior to Gen 4?
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I'll add a take that'll knock your socks off - Gen 5 was the best OU meta; I still have fond memories of my Dry Skin Parasect putting in WORK.

Also, I'm really not getting the Gen 1/2 OU slander going on here - both of those metas are hyperfocused on specific mons, sure, but that doesn't mean there isn't room for innovation. I run Poliwrath and Electrode in Gen 1 OU - as long as you know specific damage percentages, critical hit speed rates and make good predictions, you can steamroll the OU meta with just about anything
 
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