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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v2 [Update on Post #5186]
- Thread starter TPP
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Honestly, I'm happy for the result, I like the tier right now, and with the meta expiring, there is some space for some heat left, only wish I have is a baxcalibur suspect where the theme song is the first op of kobayashi san, but outside that, I think that no more suspects for now is the play, the future is waiting, and these days its all blink it, and you'll miss it, so cheer up and keep moving on people
here is a bunny video to cheer you all up, you're welcome by the way
here is a bunny video to cheer you all up, you're welcome by the way
Yeah, timing was really unfortunate. Still wouldn't call it a waste - lots of interesting discussion was generated & this suspect could be used as a frame of reference for looking into various other things after the DLC 1 Update.
In particular, I really like the double-barreled approach to an ongoing Tera discussion during the Gambit suspect. Even if it's not that cut and dry next time, it feels like we've found a way to get "more" done simultaneously.
Big fan.
I never went out of my way to get reqs, so I can't complain about the verdict. But with the DLC a month away, what's the odds of us getting another survey? Or better yet, a Baxcalibur suspect? Cause the mons that's available in the first DLC, bar the new ones (cause we know nothing about them), can't deal with this monster in the tier.
252 Atk Baxcalibur Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 200 Def Clefable: 153-181 (38.8 - 45.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
(Unaware)
252 Atk Baxcalibur Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 133-157 (33.7 - 39.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Unaware Clef will suck real bad given how much it's outclassed by Dirge.
Clef also can't realistically handle Bax effectively when Tera exists, and banded sets clobber it. SD loaded dice is also way too much.
It’s likely going to be a swift transition into DLC from here.
These complaints also lost merit when across the first 8 or so months of this generation, we had more tiering action than ever before to start a generation. More surveys as well. Hopefully this is an issue of the past.I never want to hear any more "lazy council" complaint again when the playerbase is actively shooting every chance of this tier developing in the foot like this.
I am not happy about this. However, we live in a democracy. As such, 2 things could be happening here with the suspects:I never want to hear any more "lazy council" complaint again when the playerbase is actively shooting every chance of this tier developing in the foot like this.
1) They genuinely think Kingambit is fine. Makes sense since DLC Round 1 is here in like... October - the argument being why ban it so late if it'll just be unbanned anyways.
2) The alternative: genuine trolling. I don't believe this is the case, but sabotage... kinda fucking sucks when stuff like this happens. Kingambit is obviously a problem, yet many people don't see the light at the end of the tunnel of a Kingambit-less metagame
But what do I know? I'm just an average low 1400's player.
That's cute!
Did you factor in the meta were in as well as what Clef can do in return? What about Bax's other sets? It's not just about taking hits.
Me when I Tera Fairy on Magic Guard so I can DD freely or just roll a single flinch since more likely than not Clef is going toe to toe with a +1 Bax
Me when I run Unaware Clef tbh.
A Gambit ban would also cause a drastic shift in the meta right before we get a monumentally bigger shift in the meta next month. I don't think the suspect results are that big of a loss, especially given context.
DLC drops mid September so it's about a month away. And yea, given it would probably be unbanned with the DLC and play will probably be down for the next month since not much point playing a format that will look super different in 5 weeks anyway the "what's the point" point certainly has merit. I am curious how much play changes when we enter the lame duck period when were know massive changes will be here soon, but still have time before everything changes.
Couldn't be assed to read much of the later discussion too closely because it became aids, but I think some people were talking about Tera being the problem and not Kingambit. A few DNB voters could have been going off that line of thinking since we have Tera discussion still ongoing.
Which as said in the other thread seems backwards. If you think Tera is breaking a Pokemon and you want Tera gone you should want the list of Pokemon banned because of it to be as long as possible. It should be a very hard bar to clear to ban a generational mechanic, but if we end up with a half dozen plus Pokemon gone because of Tera it becomes much easier to make the point that it isn't worth keeping. If King had been banned I believe it would have been the fourth Pokemon banished to Ubers where Tera was a major reason for it going which would be when I'd start going "maybe we should take a look at Tera".
this stings a lot less knowing that we only need wait a matter of weeks for gambit to end up on the third or fourth post-dlc qb radar
or maybe a second suspect with one of the approximately ten million better song choices proposed in this thread
Can't say I'm not deeply disappointed in the suspect result. But I do believe Gambit is gonna end up getting suspected post DLC again, this mon is too polarizing.
On another note, if A Tales is coming with DLC, I'm excited to pair it with Baxcalibur. Baxi behind Veil with Snow leads to some very silly calcs.
252 Atk Great Tusk Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Baxcalibur in Snow with an ally's Aurora Veil: 141-166 (38 - 44.7%) -- 40.5% chance to 3HKO after Ice Body recovery and Leftovers recovery
On another note, if A Tales is coming with DLC, I'm excited to pair it with Baxcalibur. Baxi behind Veil with Snow leads to some very silly calcs.
252 Atk Great Tusk Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Baxcalibur in Snow with an ally's Aurora Veil: 141-166 (38 - 44.7%) -- 40.5% chance to 3HKO after Ice Body recovery and Leftovers recovery
Alright suspect is over and I'm not sure what the DLC would bring exactly to make us avoid a Tera suspect tbh, there's a whole mon until DLC anyway so idk what the council have in mind but I do think we should move towards a Tera suspect and finally have another test with a more developed metagame.
It's not gonna change the discussion even if some kind of action happens - No Action: anti-Tera people will still complain for the rest of the generation, Team Preview/Tera Blast: anti-Tera will think it's not enough, Full Ban: pro-Tera will complain for the rest of the generation but if this second suspect happens, and the result isn't what you liked, you'd just have to deal with it.
It's not gonna change the discussion even if some kind of action happens - No Action: anti-Tera people will still complain for the rest of the generation, Team Preview/Tera Blast: anti-Tera will think it's not enough, Full Ban: pro-Tera will complain for the rest of the generation but if this second suspect happens, and the result isn't what you liked, you'd just have to deal with it.
I think the current format that Gamefreak is deploying is really annoying to be honest. I feel like its really hard for the meta and community because everytime the meta settles into a fine slot a new wave of pokemon get introduced and then the meta will inevitably be shit for a few weeks while things get settled and tested. Then after that to actually set up suspect tests on potentially problematic things its just really unfortunate with the timing of everything.
Tera has been discussed for months now but there has been quite literally no good time to have had a suspect test on it again, nearly everyone is in agreement that there are a few issues with the meta but sadly there is only realistically time to have suspects on 1-2 things.
Unfortunate that this is likely to be the trend that will continue with future generations, with a year or two of relatively unstable tiers and with whatever generation gimmick will come next.
Tera has been discussed for months now but there has been quite literally no good time to have had a suspect test on it again, nearly everyone is in agreement that there are a few issues with the meta but sadly there is only realistically time to have suspects on 1-2 things.
Unfortunate that this is likely to be the trend that will continue with future generations, with a year or two of relatively unstable tiers and with whatever generation gimmick will come next.
Finch having Kingambit on his OU Leader banner... suspicious at least... any opinion Finchinator ??
Jk. Tera Suspect Time???
Actually no…. Democracy is 50%+1. Unfortunately, the supermajority threshold of 60% leads to the minority governing the majority. Gen 9 OU is shaping up exactly like the US political system (which also has a 60% threshold for legislation); the only thing >60% of people agree on is being unhappy about the state of things. It leads to nothing getting done and diminishing confidence in democracy itself.
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