SPOILERS! Scarlet & Violet Leaks Thread - Data/Mechanics

I don’t see why they’d do an entire presentation about Ogerpon, we’ve already seen as much about it as we’re likely to pre-release. Different influencers were given tea sets (or whatever it was) so it’s almost certainly the sinistea mon.

Hopefully it’s not another grass/ghost or grass/dark. Apparently Khu randomly tweeted grass/fairy last year sometime so I’m assuming it’s that.
 
grass fairy is almost confirmed at this point. it gives it a major disadvantage to the loyal three, so the typing works not only for the design but lore wise
 
I hope the "haunting" hint is a fake out, and is just in reference to a direct comparison to Sinistea or something and the new mon is not ghost type.

In terms of ghost or other possible types, Khu tweeted

https://twitter.com/x/status/1693485585254826103

so some combination of these four options seems most likely for the new mon.

uppababy said:
grass fairy is almost confirmed at this point. it gives it a major disadvantage to the loyal three, so the typing works not only for the design but lore wise
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Ogrepon's types are far from confirmed. While it definitely looks grass, the balloon mini-game seems to have ogre balloons of four types: grass, fire, water, and rock, so for all we known its form and type are tied to its mask and we've only seen a grass form so far. Even in terms of lore, while they keep telling us the loyal three are heros who beat Ogrepon, the art in a scene in the most recent presents trailer shows Ogrepon beating down the three with a club, so something is not as it seems.
 
Fairy would also fit a haunting motive if we're being real

Fae are dangerous, scary creatures who are just as mysterious and deadly as ghosts. Hatterene is known as the Forest Witch for example and Grimmsnarl is a goblin.

So this new Tea Pokemon being part Fairy would definitely work.
 
With Wiglett and Wugtrio, they seemed to emphasize the point that they were initially thought to be regional variants, only for researchers to later understand that they were different species. In keeping with that, I think it would make sense if people at first thought Sinistcha was a ghost, because they’re assuming it to be a regional variant of Sinistea, only to later realize that it’s a different sort of supernatural Pokémon (i.e. Fairy)
 
Polchageist really does feel more like a split evolution, or an evolution of a regional form rather than a convergent/mimic/rfake/coincidence huh
 
Yeah, Poltchageist gives me the impression that GameFreak kind of wishes they just made some of the previous regional variants into separate mons in the first place so that they could change the names. I wonder if the Galarian birds pushed them over the edge into 'fakes,' since the lore didn't seem to want to commit to them actually being variations of the actual Kanto birds and just tried to kind of weakly justify the names ("it looks like of like Zapdos and it makes a staticy sound when it runs!").

I'm glad Poltchageist looks more like Sinistea than Polteageist, but still underwhelmed that GameFreak opted to give one of the worst ghost lines a new variation that is still ghost.
 
RocketSurgery said:
Yeah, Poltchageist gives me the impression that GameFreak kind of wishes they just made some of the previous regional variants into separate mons in the first place so that they could change the names. I wonder if the Galarian birds pushed them over the edge into 'fakes,' since the lore didn't seem to want to commit to them actually being variations of the actual Kanto birds and just tried to kind of weakly justify the names ("it looks like of like Zapdos and it makes a staticy sound when it runs!").
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Actually for once I'm thinking that the decision to opt for divergent species rather than regional forms comes from 2 reasons:

1) Competitively, regional forms compete with each other. It doesn't matter how good "Galarian Zapdos" is, when its original form is better, since you can't only use one of them due to the pokedex id ruling, and other way around obviously. They likely do not want forms to compete with each other for team slots off id number (nor due to mechanics, I suspect that was one of the reasons for moving to generic mechanics with occasional dedicated form instead of single mon ones like Megas)

2) Id number. Regional forms kinda make it harder to track how many pokemon there are, considering by all means Ninetales and Alolan Ninetales are completely different pokemon yet still share the id number. Divergent evolutions makes it easier to say "this generation added 100 new pokemon" just going off pokedex highest number increasing by 100.

I do think however that the two are not exclusive, and regional forms may still be preferred for pokemon that have been powercrept insanely hard like Tauros, or in case regional forms evolve into different pokemon (like Clodsire or Sneaseler)
 
I genuinely don't think they even remotely care about overlap or if the regional is better/worse.
I also don't think they care about the ID thing at all for marketing, even this generation where they finally added more than 100 they didn't use that language at all. And probably never will again, because with DLC and follow up games the number keeps rising anyway.


I think they just think that "we cant turn a mole into an EEL that's ridiculous for our arbitrary magical creature rules that we are in full control of" and so here we are with the ghost tea powder that could have easily evolved as a split from Sinistea by giving it a Matcha Tea Caddy but is its own "distinct" line because dont worry about it.
 
With this revelation of what is presumably convergent/rfake Polteageist, and it'll probably have a pre-evo called Sinistcha, I will go off the riddle that implied 7+8+1, which insinuates 7 new mons in Teal Mask/Kitakami, 8 new mons in Indigo Disk/Blueberry, and 1 more (presumably a new mythical). Based on this distribution, I believe we have all 7 new Teal Mask mons known

Teal Mask/Kitakami:
  1. Dipplin
  2. Sinistcha (presumed name of our new rfake's pre-evo)
  3. Poltchageist
  4. Okidogi
  5. Munkidori
  6. Fezandipiti
  7. Ogerpon
Indigo Disk/Blueberry Academy:

  1. Archaludon
  2. naturemonevo (implied)
  3. blood moon?
  4. Raging Bolt
  5. Iron Crown
  6. Paradox Entei
  7. Paradox Terrakion
  8. Terapagos
And then from there one more that as I said, is presumably a new mythical.

I think this is our currently known list of new Pokemon introduced in the DLC. Teal has all of its new Pokemon known now, Indigo Disk has four unknown and unrevealed ones. One is another new evolution seemingly an antithesis to Archaludon being more nature-like, the "blood moon" Pokemon evolution as well, and two are definitely Paradox Entei and Terrakion.
 
Blood moon is a form yeah. And based on some very complicated riddle stuff, it’s probably a form of a normal/ground type.

The final unknown Pokémon is probably story important, and that’s why we basically know nothing on it
 
MaskedFeraligatr said:
Blood moon is a form yeah. And based on some very complicated riddle stuff, it’s probably a form of a normal/ground type.

The final unknown Pokémon is probably story important, and that’s why we basically know nothing on it
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Diggersby sweep Because of it's one thing Ursaluna needed, it was a form change.


Also gotta say, I was kind of expecting the Paradox beasts/musketeers to somehow form together to create something closer in design to the "imagined pokemon" from the book. But I guess there's just no room for it.
 
Actually I’m kind of wondering if there will even be a Sinistcha pre-evo.

Poltchageist name suggests it’s the convergent equivalent of Polteageist, clearly, but its design is more in keeping with that of Sinistea, particularly the eyes. Not only that, but we’ve been introduced to it via an origin story of how Poltchageist came to be, which sort of implies that Poltchageist is the first stage. Granted, I wouldn’t say that definitively just yet — we could compare it to Banette, which has its own origin story irrespective of Shuppet, and it’s also possible that a Poltchageist may have been the first born, but then seeded smaller samples of itself into other tea caddies which took on a lesser stage.

At any rate, I think there’s still room for it to set itself apart from Polteageist.

Speaking of its origin story, I wonder if that’s partly why it’s considered a new species rather than a regional form. Ghost-types are presumably a little different from regular, biological creatures — instead of being produced by the evolutionary process, they’re usually spirits which take the form that they do because of a specific incident. In this case, Poltchageist was born from the strict tea master’s impatience and regret, which is, well, just fundamentally not what produced Sinistea (they are lost souls that settled into some leftover tea). Even though they ended up with similar forms, they don’t share a common origin (at least, not any more so than all Ghost-type Pokémon that are made of some kind of lingering emotion do).
 
Worldie said:
Aren't we tecnically still knowing nothing of whatever that apocalyptic drawing in the Scarlet/Violet book is?
Or was that implied to be Terapagos?
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It's explicitly terapagos, it's not the entire disc, it's the thing at the top of it

Esserise said:
Actually I’m kind of wondering if there will even be a Sinistcha pre-evo.

Poltchageist name suggests it’s the convergent equivalent of Polteageist, clearly, but its design is more in keeping with that of Sinistea, particularly the eyes. Not only that, but we’ve been introduced to it via an origin story of how Poltchageist came to be, which sort of implies that Poltchageist is the first stage. Granted, I wouldn’t say that definitively just yet — we could compare it to Banette, which has its own origin story irrespective of Shuppet, and it’s also possible that a Poltchageist may have been the first born, but then seeded smaller samples of itself into other tea caddies which took on a lesser stage.

At any rate, I think there’s still room for it to set itself apart from Polteageist.

Speaking of its origin story, I wonder if that’s partly why it’s considered a new species rather than a regional form. Ghost-types are presumably a little different from regular, biological creatures — instead of being produced by the evolutionary process, they’re usually spirits which take the form that they do because of a specific incident. In this case, Poltchageist was born from the strict tea master’s impatience and regret, which is, well, just fundamentally not what produced Sinistea (they are lost souls that settled into some leftover tea). Even though they ended up with similar forms, they don’t share a common origin (at least, not any more so than all Ghost-type Pokémon that are made of some kind of lingering emotion do).
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For the record, per the new stuff that went up, this is despite the name is it IS the pre-evo. It's paralleling Sinistea, not Polteageist.
Which I guess tracks with the eyes and ectoplasm dude....it's also only being shown around weaker unevolved Pokemon.
 
The "naturemonevo" is looking likely to be a dipplin evo. The trailer seems to hint we'll be facing off against Kieran in the BB league, maybe as champion, and he has a dipplin in Teal Mask. Plus, Khu tweeted in a reply that he went and caught two new shiny applin for his shiny dex in prep for the DLC.

In addition to the number of new mons riddle, Khu also may have hinted at the number of forms:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1686522892744605706

6 + 1 + x for the twitterless. (That +x is what Khu wrote, nothing to do with Twitter's rebranding)

Notably, Teal Mask had 6... two of which it seems are going to be taken up by Sinistcha/Poltchageist unless it really happens to be standalone. Since we know Terapagos has a form, that would seem to use up the only slot for Indigo Disk, which would mean that if Blood/Harvest moon Ursaluna is a form it would be in Teal Mask. That leaves only 3 slots. If Ogrepon has a form, then it would seem to preclude the loyal three getting any forms because only 2 slots would be left, so potentially Ogrepon gets multiple forms. If Poltchageist is standalone, then it looks like there's enough room for Ogrepon + the loyal three to each get a form. Or, since the balloon mini-game had 4 types of Ogre, maybe Ogrepon just gets 4 forms...

To summarize:

If Sinistcha exists, the Teal Mask forms would seem to be:
-Sinistcha
-Poltchageist
-Ursaluna
-Ogrepon x 3

If Poltchageist is standalone, then we could have
-Poltchageist
-Ursaluna
-Ogrepon
-Loyal 3

or
-Poltchageist
-Ursaluna
-Ogrepon x 4
 
RocketSurgery said:
The "naturemonevo" is looking likely to be a dipplin evo. The trailer seems to hint we'll be facing off against Kieran in the BB league, maybe as champion, and he has a dipplin in Teal Mask. Plus, Khu tweeted in a reply that he went and caught two new shiny applin for his shiny dex in prep for the DLC.
Click to expand...
What a bizarre decision. I love the Applin line but making the new line explicitly better, and split across 2 pieces of DLC is weird. And even weirder because Diplin probably could have been a different form or "convergent"....
In addition to the number of new mons riddle, Khu also may have hinted at the number of forms:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1686522892744605706

6 + 1 + x for the twitterless. (That +x is what Khu wrote, nothing to do with Twitter's rebranding)

Notably, Teal Mask had 6... two of which it seems are going to be taken up by Sinistcha/Poltchageist unless it really happens to be standalone. Since we know Terapagos has a form, that would seem to use up the only slot for Indigo Disk, which would mean that if Blood/Harvest moon Ursaluna is a form it would be in Teal Mask. That leaves only 3 slots. If Ogrepon has a form, then it would seem to preclude the loyal three getting any forms because only 2 slots would be left, so potentially Ogrepon gets multiple forms. If Poltchageist is standalone, then it looks like there's enough room for Ogrepon + the loyal three to each get a form. Or, since the balloon mini-game had 4 types of Ogre, maybe Ogrepon just gets 4 forms...

To summarize:

If Sinistcha exists, the Teal Mask forms would seem to be:
-Sinistcha
-Poltchageist
-Ursaluna
-Ogrepon x 3

If Poltchageist is standalone, then we could have
-Poltchageist
-Ursaluna
-Ogrepon
-Loyal 3

or
-Poltchageist
-Ursaluna
-Ogrepon x 4
Click to expand...
I assume this doesn't count "Tera" forms, since there'd be no room for all those, and by extension Ogrepon's Tera form?
 
https://twitter.com/x/status/1693989356141478388

An interesting theory I see in one of the responses is actually diametrically opposed: someone seems to imply that this pokemon may actually evolve.
In that screenshot, they opted to put it with Munchlax, Chimecho and Yanma.
2 of these evolve and there's the rumours of a Chimecho evolution from the presence of Chimecho in one of the trailers (i vaguely remind reading about it somewhere in these 400 pages).
 
Worldie said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1693989356141478388

An interesting theory I see in one of the responses is actually diametrically opposed: someone seems to imply that this pokemon may actually evolve.
In that screenshot, they opted to put it with Munchlax, Chimecho and Yanma.
2 of these evolve and there's the rumours of a Chimecho evolution from the presence of Chimecho in one of the trailers (i vaguely remind reading about it somewhere in these 400 pages).
Click to expand...
Well like I said above and in the other thread, the site itself explicitly compares it to Sinistea and not Polteageist
So it probably does evolve, despite the name. Maybe Mactha Polteageist will actually be "Sinischea" beacuse Matcha powder makes the tea?
 
R_N said:
I assume this doesn't count "Tera" forms, since there'd be no room for all those, and by extension Ogrepon's Tera form?
Click to expand...

I guess it depends on whether gigantamax-esque tera forms are actually a thing beyond Ogrepon and/or Terapagos. If there aren't any, then I guess Ogrepon's forms could, e.g., be tied to different masks, each with a corresponding terastaliized big head that maybe Khu is counting only once.

Assuming these counts are indeed forms in the first place, I don't think there was any strong hint that that's what the second counts are, just that it seems to be the most reasonable guess.
 
RocketSurgery said:
The "naturemonevo" is looking likely to be a dipplin evo. The trailer seems to hint we'll be facing off against Kieran in the BB league, maybe as champion, and he has a dipplin in Teal Mask. Plus, Khu tweeted in a reply that he went and caught two new shiny applin for his shiny dex in prep for the DLC.

In addition to the number of new mons riddle, Khu also may have hinted at the number of forms:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1686522892744605706

6 + 1 + x for the twitterless. (That +x is what Khu wrote, nothing to do with Twitter's rebranding)

Notably, Teal Mask had 6... two of which it seems are going to be taken up by Sinistcha/Poltchageist unless it really happens to be standalone. Since we know Terapagos has a form, that would seem to use up the only slot for Indigo Disk, which would mean that if Blood/Harvest moon Ursaluna is a form it would be in Teal Mask. That leaves only 3 slots. If Ogrepon has a form, then it would seem to preclude the loyal three getting any forms because only 2 slots would be left, so potentially Ogrepon gets multiple forms. If Poltchageist is standalone, then it looks like there's enough room for Ogrepon + the loyal three to each get a form. Or, since the balloon mini-game had 4 types of Ogre, maybe Ogrepon just gets 4 forms...

To summarize:

If Sinistcha exists, the Teal Mask forms would seem to be:
-Sinistcha
-Poltchageist
-Ursaluna
-Ogrepon x 3

If Poltchageist is standalone, then we could have
-Poltchageist
-Ursaluna
-Ogrepon
-Loyal 3

or
-Poltchageist
-Ursaluna
-Ogrepon x 4
Click to expand...


Excuse the double-post, but I figure an edit to the quoted post might go unnoticed:

Somehow I totally blanked on the fact that the base forms are not included in the form count, so one of Ogrepon's forms would just be its base form and the other 3 are part of the count if the balloon theory holds. This would make room again for a Poltchageist evo, which it seems people are speculating about because the gift box that the PokeTubers got included Poltchageist's vase and spoon, as well as another dish and matcha stirrer. I guess TPCi deciding to name fake-Sinistea after Polteageist and a new evo something entirely different is possible, though a bit unprecedented.

Crackpot theory time: in the key art for the Teal Mask there are a bunch of lanterns with type symbols on them, which have been speculated to be hints at the types of the loyal three and Ogrepon:

1692760399961.png



Khu highlighted the lanterns recently, too. Given that the loyal three have Toxic chain as an ability, they likely share Poison. The most recents presents had a scene in which Munkidori used a psychic move, Fezandipiti used Moonblast, and Okidogi used something like Giga Impact but could possibly be an updated Meteor Assault, which could hint at Psychic, Fairy, and Fighting types for those three. Then, we've also seen that the balloons in the ogre busting minigame have grass, fire, water, and rock symbols on them.

This accounts for all of the symbols except ghost and the ogre symbol. Possibly then Ogrepon could be part ghost, which if it were dual-type in all its forms would make it the first rock/ghost, third water/ghost, and seventh grass/ghost and fire/ghost lines. :P (But, if its mask changes its type, then possibly it acts more like terastallization and becomes mono-type depending on which mask it wears).

Presumably the ogre symbol is just representative of the ogre story, but I guess there's an outside chance it's the 20th tera type. (Though it'd be weird if part 1's special tera type were revealed before part 2's, so I wouldn't bet on this).
 
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Still kind of suspect that they're reversing how it works. The Tea Caddy evolves into a proper Tea Dish; the caddy was the powder, and the evolution is the actual tea, so the names and designs will basically be based on that
Poltchageist has the nondescript swirly ghost and the eyes on the container like Sinistea, but is in a large container like Polteageist. Meanwhile "Sinistcha" will have a more defined ghost with an unaltered container, but the container itself will be more like a tea cup or dish.

e: Also Poltchageist's japanese name is also based on Polteageist. Potdes/Potdeath to Chades/Chadeath
 
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