Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v3

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DaddyBuzzwole said:
now watch it not actually be bax and finch has jebaited us all
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this possiblity crossed my mind but tbf the council hasnt really done that at all this gen. anyone who saw the volc ban as coming out of left field wasnt really looking, as they made it fairly clear they wanted to do that like half a week before the ban. manaphy and firepon havent been discussed to the same level as bax/veil, and i think the latter is still kinda developing in its usage
 
artificialdeath said:
this possiblity crossed my mind but tbf the council hasnt really done that at all this gen. anyone who saw the volc ban as coming out of left field wasnt really looking, as they made it fairly clear they wanted to do that like half a week before the ban. manaphy and firepon havent been discussed to the same level as bax/veil, and i think the latter is still kinda developing in its usage
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It was a week of no ban 0-9 to suddenly quickban 7-2 for Volcarona when Home came out iirc. The whiplash/turnaround was notable.
 
Finchinator said:
A certain single Pokemon had received an overwhelming amount of support throughout the thread and the survey to the point that we are conducting an emergency vote on it.

Multiple other Pokemon are receiving noteworthy amounts of support as well and we will continue to monitor those developments in hopes of proceeding with a standard council vote (non-emergency) in the coming days.
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I can't believe that the Council is emergency voting to keep Miraidon banned.
 
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let's hope for a repeat of #baxsweep
 
Finchinator said:
We reached a verdict, but I have some things to do for the Jewish new year and we are still waiting on a few votes. I’ll post tonight.
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Thank fuck something's being done about Bax, that thing needs to GO. It was absurd before A-tales, but it's even more broken now that it gets veil + snow's defense boost. Thing's damn near unkillable under snow and veil.
 
Oh well, ggs Baxcalibur. You're not the first Pseudo to go to Ubers.

Alright, who's gonna be next on the chopping block once Bax is gone and the Mon it kept in check starts running amok?
 
waytoopetty said:
A notable counter playstyle is sun teams. Torkal denies Veil from A-tails, With Ogrepon a bit more explored we are seeing some crazy calcs from it (sun + 1.5 from tera + 1.5 from ability boost + 1.2 mask boost) so it allows it to hit past resists. I'm now realizing that Veil isn't as broken as it seems as it was prob just day one chaos. I predict Bax to not be banned, but ofc you never know how the meta will progess.
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This is not a counter. This one specific very strong lay style doing well into another. Forcing oeople to run weather just to not lose to bax teams isn't good for the game at all and just results in a stagnant game.
 
Moyashi said:
This is not a counter. This one specific very strong lay style doing well into another. Forcing oeople to run weather just to not lose to bax teams isn't good for the game at all and just results in a stagnant game.
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It's not only not a counter, it's part of the problem. If we're relying on weather checking weather, that devolves the entire metagame into hyper offense vs hyper offense, where one type of team essentially wins at team preview (sun) to another (snow). Do we really want the entire game to become even more of a matchup fish? Tera already makes the meta matchup-fishy as all hell, do we really need to add Gen 5-style weather-checking-weather nonsense?
 
MilkyWay said:
The reason I'm not that impressed with these calcs is because I could post the same thing except with Gengar instead, which isn't even ranked on the viability ranking thread.

Like literally, Gengar has 5 less sp atk, and could run Nasty Plot, Shadow Ball (over Dark Pulse), Focus Blast, and Psychic/Sludge Wave. You even get STAB on Sludge Wave.

I concede that 125 speed vs. 110 is significant, and that 70/90/90 bulk is a bit better than 60/60/75, (albeit Life Orb recoil makes the modest bulk increase less significant). I suppose you could make the case Dark Pulse is more spammable than Shadow Ball due to lack of immunities, but those moves are still pretty comparable.

Like I said before, I don't like theorymonning, but considering Gengar isn't considered viable, it seems wild to me that people think Darkrai is so laughably broken it doesn't even deserve to be tested.

Edit: fwiw Gengar even gets Knock Off like you mentioned for Darkrai too
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Gengar's paper-thin defenses and much lower speed matter a lot. It's not a bit bulkier as Darkrai has close to 50% more bulk on the physical side than Gengar does and has a typing that is better against the most common priority move in OU in Sucker Punch. Darkrai if dropped into OU would be the third-fastest Pokemon, which allows to beat a lot more than Gengar since many OU threats have more options for OHKOing Gengar than they do with Darkrai and are faster, such as Cinderace (Pyro Ball and also Sucker Punch if you can fit it), Choice Specs Dragapult (Shadow Ball and Draco Meteor whereas it can only OHKO Darkai with Draco Meteor), pre-transformation Battle Bond Greninja (Dark Pulse and Hydro Pump whereas none of its moves OHKO Darkrai), Meowscarada (Knock Off and Sucker Punch while it doesn't OHKO Darkrai with anything), and speed-boosting Walking Wake outside of sun (has a chance to OHKO Gengar with Hydro Steam whereas Darkrai lives). And as you yourself pointed, out, Dark Pulse is more spammable due to it having no immunities.

One of the bigger upsides Darkrai has over Gengar is that it beats Clodsire, the main special wall of OU, while Gengar outright loses to it.

To pretend that Gengar is even remotely comparable to Darkrai in performance is disingenuous or just outright wrong.
 
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If I had a nickel for every time a Pokémon that was in UU earlier in the generation ended up being too busted for OU, I'd have two nickels but isn't it odd that it happened twice?

So this isn't a one-liner, this is good news for Torterra as it doesn't have to worry about Ice Shard immediately ruining its sweep, unless Weavile or Mamoswine make a resurgence
 
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