252+ Atk Choice Band Strong Jaw Tera Water Dracovish Fishious Rend (170 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola in Rain: 443-522 (82.9 - 97.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
The Calc for vs Mola for comparison.
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v3
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252+ Atk Choice Band Strong Jaw Tera Water Dracovish Fishious Rend (170 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola in Rain: 443-522 (82.9 - 97.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
The Calc for vs Mola for comparison.
We should to respect the outcome of the vote regardless (at least for now) for the sake of legitimacy, especially considering how relatively recent it was. There have already been conversations in Policy Review about why going "we don't like the outcome of the vote and decided to ignore it" is bad, so I won't dwell on that. Plus this meta is extremely finite anyway; when DLC2 drops we can probably revisit King, especially if it gets some stupid move like Shift Gear.
Or who knows, maybe the changes and additions to the game will make King more bearable. I think someone already pointed out that it has been way less common on the ladder, but that might be New Toy Syndrome at work. And again, finite meta.
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i'm just curious, so i wanted to ask, what is it that makes banning spikes so unfeasible? baton pass creates a meta warped around itself and team structures revolving around it, it gets banned. shed tail does the same thing, it gets banned. screens does the same thing to a lesser extent and now alolan ninetales (which i do think is by far the best screen setter and should be looked at) and light clay (maybe also worth looking at) are on the chopping block. but spikes become an extremely prevalant, meta-warping factor and nobody is willing to point a finger at them? is it just because pokemon fans are always stuck in the past and banning a move that's been legal for so many generations prior seems like sacriledge to them?
if spikes are causing a problem, be it with gliscor, samu-h or ting-lu as the setter, then why can't we take a look at the move spikes? why does it either have to be gholdengo's fault or we just suck it up and deal with it? why does a move that literally warps the entire metagame around itself to the point of being forced to run some kind of counterplay, be it rapid spin, defog or court change, just get a free pass in everyone's book? to me, the hazards themselves have always seemed extremely restrictive, and i just want to know why its unfeasible to take action against them specifically, and why gholdengo or gliscor are being looked at specifically.
also regarding gliscor, i don't see why so many people are upset about its inclusion on the survey. i jokingly mentioned about pokemon fans being stuck in the past before, but sometimes it genuinely feels like that is the case. volcarona gets banned for being oppressive and matchup fishy, and people are upset. alolan ninetales and gliscor, rightfully problematic mons to an extent at least in the current format, are included and people meme on it. it seems like just because something was ok in a previous format, the very idea of it being a problem now is a crime, and instead everything that might be making this meta different to the point that these mons are a problem should be banned, ban tera, ban any new mons that partner well with these mons, ban whatever else so that the metagame becomes the same as the past several, it feels like pokemon fans are simply afraid of change. sure, gliscor lost roost, but poison heal and protect still give it longevity, and spikes and toxic spikes are tools its never had before, we shouldn't be judging it based off of its performance in older gens but in this gen, the one we are playing now.
edit: also i just wanted to say that none of this is meant to offend or attack other people's opinions, i simply want to generate discussion and find out why, if there is a reason, as to action can't be taken on spikes, and why people are so actively against mons like gliscor or a-tales being on the survey.
if spikes are causing a problem, be it with gliscor, samu-h or ting-lu as the setter, then why can't we take a look at the move spikes? why does it either have to be gholdengo's fault or we just suck it up and deal with it? why does a move that literally warps the entire metagame around itself to the point of being forced to run some kind of counterplay, be it rapid spin, defog or court change, just get a free pass in everyone's book? to me, the hazards themselves have always seemed extremely restrictive, and i just want to know why its unfeasible to take action against them specifically, and why gholdengo or gliscor are being looked at specifically.
also regarding gliscor, i don't see why so many people are upset about its inclusion on the survey. i jokingly mentioned about pokemon fans being stuck in the past before, but sometimes it genuinely feels like that is the case. volcarona gets banned for being oppressive and matchup fishy, and people are upset. alolan ninetales and gliscor, rightfully problematic mons to an extent at least in the current format, are included and people meme on it. it seems like just because something was ok in a previous format, the very idea of it being a problem now is a crime, and instead everything that might be making this meta different to the point that these mons are a problem should be banned, ban tera, ban any new mons that partner well with these mons, ban whatever else so that the metagame becomes the same as the past several, it feels like pokemon fans are simply afraid of change. sure, gliscor lost roost, but poison heal and protect still give it longevity, and spikes and toxic spikes are tools its never had before, we shouldn't be judging it based off of its performance in older gens but in this gen, the one we are playing now.
edit: also i just wanted to say that none of this is meant to offend or attack other people's opinions, i simply want to generate discussion and find out why, if there is a reason, as to action can't be taken on spikes, and why people are so actively against mons like gliscor or a-tales being on the survey.
Spikes -- or any hazard for that matter -- has NEVER been banned, and they've been around since gen 2.(at least spikes. the other 2 are gen 4 late bloomers) If anything was to be banned in the hazard department, I would personally pick rocks as that move LITERALLY determines if Charizard gets used in OU or not
Maybe that's a bad example seeing as Charizard would still be down in the trenches without rocks. But the thing is, Spikes has gotten a huge buff. Lots of distribution, and a move that automatically sets them. Out of the 3 ways to not take Spikes chip, 1 of them can be removed via Knock Off (Heavy-Duty Boots), being a Flying type, or having Magic Guard -- which in OU boils down to... only Clefable.
Maybe it's because it's been around for literally 2 decades (idk maybe that's important) but all hazards are super important to the metagame. I don't think it should be suspected because a lot of things suddenly get free reign to just throw off a move here and there. Like if there was just no hazards at all, imagine what some lower tier pokes are capable of now that they switch-in for free.
I really don't want a hazardless metagame for the sake of playing competitively. But if you disagree, that's perfectly fine
Dw was just a canon event
Just wanted to say this guy’s posts are always so smart, level-headed, and contain well supported arguments. Should be the definitive darkrai posts on this thread in my opinion.Real post time:
I think we should drop Darkrai for OU
Why drop darkrai?
For one, offensively, its not that much better than what pokemon we already have. Currently, all of the offensive pokemon are balanced, and the ones that are Super Strong like ogerpon-hearthflame can be managed with hazards, pivots, chip and out-offensing (For example, Gliscor + Pex is a very versatile combo right now that can be paired with a lot of defensive pokemon, and with gliscor's ability to stack hazard, ogerpon will have much less opportunity to get in). Darkrai fits perfectly in the middle of speed tier and power level of the current OU mons, Fast, but not as fast as scarfers, Zamazenta, Dragon Dancers and Dragapult, Strong but not as strong as the big breakers like Ogerpon and Kingambit, its basically just a special attacking Zamazenta but with much less bulk
These are great stats, but also not too overwhelming, you can realistically check it with already good spdef mons like pex with toxic, clefable, gliscor and faster threats like scarf enamorus and zamazenta, dragapult can revenge after chip
Now i've read the responses from Srn Eeveeto and ant4456 regarding why we shouldn't drop darkrai due to calcs, and to that i say "yeah, so what?" because pokemon is much deeper than just 1 turn calcs, and if you look at the most popular teams right now (from balance to offense) they all can handle darkrai well without even trying. Take a look at these teams:
Keep in mind these are just the balance teams, i didn't even put the popular offense that can easily overwhelm darkrai like Veil, and remember, this is BEFORE Darkrai is even out so these teams aren't even trying to beat darkrai but still can handle it well, Balance can pivot around it with mons like spdef gliscor, spdef pex, fezandipiti, ting-lu and chip it slowly (just like how they do with other threats like gambit, ogerpon, etc.) HO can trade mons and be on top. So while calcs like these
Looks scary on paper, in practice it’ll be more managable similar to how we handle Walking Wake which has even scarier calcs (and i haven't even touch upon potential moveset and tera changes these pokemon can have to ruin darkrai like twave clef, knock gliscor, protect spam, tera poison, and an increase in scarf users.). Looking at some mons in the past, Mixed Iron Valiant in Home Meta looked super scary with its speed and attacks, with the right move and set its downright unwallable, but the meta managed, with changes like tera fire zamazenta, defensive gholdengo and colbur berry slowking-g, so why can't the meta adapt to darkrai? we have the tools to do it, and in fact it can even help vs some of the huge meta threats like Ogerpon and Manaphy on HO or Gholdengo Spikestack on balance. It can use many sets from nasty plot to taunt knock off to scarf, but theyre still checked by the same few pokemon like Ting-Lu, more niche ‘mons like Fezandipiti which i think is underrated, Etc. Not to mention, it really needs boots because if it runs a non boots set like choice, it will have a very hard time againts Spikestack/Bootspam balance team with Gliscor Dengo Pex. Choice item will be good too since it won’t die as quickly as Life Orb but being locked into 1 80BP dark stab i am not too worried about
Considering how:
-it struggles with hazard and status,
-can be played around with the tools available currently,
-can be out offensed with what we have currently
-can still be revenge killed relatively safely by common threats,
-can even help some Offense and Balance team play checking threats of this tier (gliscor with ice beam, manaphy with thunder, gholdengo) currently
and for those saying "What about tournaments?" We can suspect it on ladder but ban it from SPL/OST while it happens DLC2
Darkrai also has difficult time picking moveslots
Dark Pulse / Focus Blast / Sludge Bomb - Most common but requires set-up as the coverage is weak unboosted. easily played around by SpDef Gliscor, Clodsire, Toxapex. Funny even Sneasler and Great Tusk naturally checks this
Dark Pulse / Ice Beam / Sludge Bomb - walled by Kingambit (which is big) Toxapex Tyranitar in DLC2 since sand should make comeback with Excadrill, also Tyranitar is already underrated with Knock Off now
Dark Pulse / Ice Beam / Psyshock - walled by WaterPon, Fairys - Clefable, Garganacl
For those looking to use a 4 attack set/Choice item, Darkrai simply isn’t strong enough to break through bulky teams, and can realistically only clean through offensive team that has been bludgeoned. Choice sets can be scary, but the hazard weakness + reliance on prediction is really bad for it.
Darkrai is weak without set-up, the common Pokemon it likes to set up on such as Zapdos Rotom-W Slowking-G Amoonguss can click a status move like Thunder Wave or Spore or strong move to get chip like Dondozo Body Press Garganacl Salt Cure or Moltres Tornadus-T slow U-turn into revenge killer/priority, Hell you can even switch in Zamazenta hard a few times since darkrai can’t even 2HKO it.
Even after set-up Darkrai can miss out on KO’s because the moves are either weak or do not have stab, for example Corviknight can live +2 Dark Pulse and finish off a weakened Darkrai with Body Press
This is also with set-up, I am not sure if all Darkrai will run Nasty Plot
Tera Blast-Fairy set Srn posted is most scary which is fair but it once again requires the initial set-up + burning your tera which is a lot to ask. Pokemon such as Regieleki, Volcarona, and Espathra were broken with Tera Blast because they were insanely fast (Eleki) or boosted speed such as Volcarona and Espathra meaning they would snowball out of control. Darkrai however cannot boost its speed and can still be checked outside of priority. I also believe there will be a Tera Blast ban in the future which is good for Darkrai’s balance
People are also scared of the Hypnosis set which I don’t get. The chance of hitting Hypnosis is 60% then 1st turn wake factored makes it around 40%. The Exotic64 team has Hypnosis Iron Valiant which is true but it really isn’t a good set in my opinion. I am sure he can attest to this and also how a lot of players have changed it for Encore or coverage when laddering. Also Iron Valiant in theory is way scarier if you hit Hypnosis because it has Booster Energy giving it 546 base speed. You can Hypnosis then possibly get 2 Calm Minds but clearly this isn’t a consistent strategy even on that Pokemon so not sure why people say it will be common on Darkrai outside of ladder cheese for the first week it is out
If Game Freak didn't nerf Dark Void into hell, it wouldn't even be considered OU lmao
Alas. We live in a timeline where probably even Ferrothorn is in UU. Probably
Alas. We live in a timeline where probably even Ferrothorn is in UU. Probably
ferrothorn is not UU and will probably never be UU he SPITS in the face of power creep and then heals 5%
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Ferrothorn has been an overrated Mon since last Gen, wouldn't be surprised to see it in UU at some point.
Also homophobia has being Dexited as the consequence. Same happens with racism, so I need my Centiskorch to work hard against it's prejudices about Rock types.
Banning Gholdengo would be stupid as Gholdengo is the hero we need in the Metagame. It checks so many threats in the Metagame who otherwise could go wild and rip the tier apart. It’s Ghost/Steel typing is actually really important with how many threatening Fighting, Fairy, Grass, Dragon, Normal (or at least half normal), Steel, Grass, and Poison. there are. It doesn’t always 100% counter them but it does always have an entry point into them and can threaten them out. It’s also all on 1 Pokemon so only one slot of your team is used.
Not related to Water Ogerpon, is "live" Pokemon usage data available outside of the monthly usage stats? I want to play around with some of the data if posisble
As far as Spikes, I think the primary reason is because even if they have gotten extremely strong now, Hazards are such a fundamental aspect of how the entire meta works that it's entirely possible that removing Spikes would STILL result in more of a hellscape than what we have now. The ability to force progress on the majority of the Pokemon roster just by having the hazards down absolutely dictates how team structures played, as it requires defensive teams reliant on switching to account for extra damage while sponging hits, and offensive teams can make riskier plays both from the extra chip on the opponent and their own longevity having a shorter timer. Shed Tail and Aurora Veil are extremely strong, but they're moreso strong versions of a single strategy type that several teams abuse, as opposed to a mechanic that every archetype uses and accounts for to some degree. You can see this last gen too, where even with a lot of decent removers like Lando-T, Zapdos, Kartana, Tornadus, Corviknight, Excadrill, and Pelipper, several Pokemon even neutral to Hazards would run boots, because ignoring those Hazards even for a couple turns with removal could make a massive difference. It's simply exacerbated this gen by the dearth of removers (who are viable but still very few in number) and the reduced Knock Off Distribution meaning Boots will last you longer as a stop gap.
The most immediate comparison I can think of (as an outsider to the latter so please correct any misjudgement) is Gen 3 and Tyranitar's Permanent Sand. It's a bit different since the damage is more distributed, but it has a similar effect in that the chip damage occurring constantly just by playing the game heavily alters how teambuilding is able to work, with bulky Pokemon needing Leftovers just to stay Neutral and several Defensive Pokemon achieving their power as much from shrugging those off as their actual bulk (Flygon, Swampert, and of course Skarmory benefit immensely from decent type profiles that also ignore Sand and in 2 cases Spikes) even without room/the option to use recovery.
So I think ultimately people are hesitant to push for action against Spikes itself rather than other potential perpetrators/symptoms like Gholdengo and Gliscor because the former has a LOT more volatile potential for effects on the Meta. Gholdengo becomes the center point of this because you don't even strictly need him AS a spinblocker on most teams, given all the other utility he offers with that typing, statline, and busted ability, but he can fill that role anyway by being there, which is almost unprecedent for such a role (most viable Spinblockers still had to predict well to not blow up like Gengar, could be defensive momentum sinks if not careful, or had to be careful of overloading). The Defog interaction I think is especially troublesome because in previous Gens, if someone with Taunt wasn't on the field already, Defog WOULD get rid of your hazards; it could be exploited or compensated with Defiant switch-ins on top of the usual Momentum cost, but Defog traded greater passivity for the near-guarantee and high distribution, something it lost between Gholdengo and the move resets respectively to the point of probably being inferior hazard removal outright. Corviknight for example had the give-and-take that it was long-lived and would keep hazards away in exchange for not making much progress itself so much as helping your other progress makers stay alive: now that Gholdengo blanks literally everything it tries and the hazards don't even leave, Corv is a shadow of its Gen 8 self despite the fact the Removal-removal should make it more valuable than before.
I think we should evaluate Gholdengo's brokenness by the most objective means possible: How it affects Lokix
Positives im going to make this really big so that people take this seriously
-Removal of Stealth Rock makes Lokix more able to run Tera Dark without needing Leech Life + Tera Bug to stay healthy
-Gholdengo quad resists Fimp and has recovery, leading to Fimp being more spammable without needing prediction.
-Great Tusk becomes less common as it's not the only hazard removal in the tier, which leads teams to use different rocks setters like Clodsire and Ting-Lu who Lokix murders
-Less heatran
-More munki and cress
-Without Gholdengo, Tidy Up/Last Resort Furret becomes the biggest threat in the tier which Lokix can revenge kill
NEGATIVES :(((((((((
-a lot of fairy and fighting types, particularly Iron Valiant and Enamorus, which lokix hates
-More ID Garg/Zama
-Corv instantly gets 110% usage + rocky helmet chip bad
-more Atails (which lokix CAN'T FUCKING ONESHOT WITH HP INVESTMENT GRRRRRRRRRR) and veil teams in general
-More ESpeed Dragonite
-Massive sun stonks
-More fezandipiti
-Less hazards on the opponent's side means that lokix fails to get a lot of KOs
This isn't long enough....so how about a wall of calcs?
252+ Atk Choice Band Lokix Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragapult: 404-476 (127.4 - 150.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Dark Lokix Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gholdengo: 440-520 (116.4 - 137.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
4 Atk Great Tusk Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Dark Lokix: 402-474 (142 - 167.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Tera Dark Lokix Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Great Tusk: 234-276 (53.9 - 63.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Lokix First Impression vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Fezandipiti: 120-142 (31.5 - 37.3%) -- 86.8% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Lokix Leech Life vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Ting-Lu: 300-354 (58.3 - 68.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Dark Lokix Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 280-330 (86.6 - 102.1%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Tera Dark Lokix Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Iron Valiant: 160-188 (55.3 - 65%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Dark Lokix Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Zapdos: 338-398 (105.2 - 123.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Dark Lokix Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 248+ Def Moltres: 228-270 (59.5 - 70.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Dark Lokix Leech Life vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tablets of Ruin WOKE-Chien: 544-648 (145.4 - 173.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Dark Lokix Leech Life vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Jolteon: 274-324 (101.1 - 119.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Tera Dark Lokix Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Wigglytuff: 546-644 (112.8 - 133%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Dark Lokix Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Seviper: 442-520 (154 - 181.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Dark Lokix Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Persian: 442-520 (163 - 191.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Dark Lokix Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Delibird: 546-644 (236.3 - 278.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Dark Lokix Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Flutter Mane: 342-404 (136.2 - 160.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Tera Dark Lokix Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 184-218 (48.5 - 57.5%) -- 93.4% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Dark Lokix Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Calyrex-Shadow: 1416-1672 (415.2 - 490.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Tera Bug Lokix First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Fire Ogerpon-Hearthflame-Tera: 316-372 (104.9 - 123.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Dark Lokix Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Volbeat: 254-300 (76 - 89.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Volbeat Lunge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Dark Lokix: 330-390 (116.6 - 137.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Dark Lokix Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Furret: 306-360 (98.3 - 115.7%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
In conclusion, don't ban ghold because it makes lokix worse
edit: I love how this completely satirical no-substance wall of calcs vs SEVIPER, PERSIAN, JOLTEON, and FURRET got more than 3 times the reacts than my actual in-depth essay on Lokix in the Niche Heat Brigade.
Positives im going to make this really big so that people take this seriously
-Removal of Stealth Rock makes Lokix more able to run Tera Dark without needing Leech Life + Tera Bug to stay healthy
-Gholdengo quad resists Fimp and has recovery, leading to Fimp being more spammable without needing prediction.
-Great Tusk becomes less common as it's not the only hazard removal in the tier, which leads teams to use different rocks setters like Clodsire and Ting-Lu who Lokix murders
-Less heatran
-More munki and cress
-Without Gholdengo, Tidy Up/Last Resort Furret becomes the biggest threat in the tier which Lokix can revenge kill
NEGATIVES :(((((((((
-a lot of fairy and fighting types, particularly Iron Valiant and Enamorus, which lokix hates
-More ID Garg/Zama
-Corv instantly gets 110% usage + rocky helmet chip bad
-more Atails (which lokix CAN'T FUCKING ONESHOT WITH HP INVESTMENT GRRRRRRRRRR) and veil teams in general
-More ESpeed Dragonite
-Massive sun stonks
-More fezandipiti
-Less hazards on the opponent's side means that lokix fails to get a lot of KOs
This isn't long enough....so how about a wall of calcs?
252+ Atk Choice Band Lokix Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragapult: 404-476 (127.4 - 150.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Dark Lokix Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gholdengo: 440-520 (116.4 - 137.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
4 Atk Great Tusk Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Dark Lokix: 402-474 (142 - 167.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Tera Dark Lokix Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Great Tusk: 234-276 (53.9 - 63.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Lokix First Impression vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Fezandipiti: 120-142 (31.5 - 37.3%) -- 86.8% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Lokix Leech Life vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Ting-Lu: 300-354 (58.3 - 68.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Dark Lokix Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 280-330 (86.6 - 102.1%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Tera Dark Lokix Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Iron Valiant: 160-188 (55.3 - 65%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Dark Lokix Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Zapdos: 338-398 (105.2 - 123.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Dark Lokix Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 248+ Def Moltres: 228-270 (59.5 - 70.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Dark Lokix Leech Life vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tablets of Ruin WOKE-Chien: 544-648 (145.4 - 173.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Dark Lokix Leech Life vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Jolteon: 274-324 (101.1 - 119.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Tera Dark Lokix Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Wigglytuff: 546-644 (112.8 - 133%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Dark Lokix Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Seviper: 442-520 (154 - 181.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Dark Lokix Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Persian: 442-520 (163 - 191.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Dark Lokix Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Delibird: 546-644 (236.3 - 278.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Dark Lokix Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Flutter Mane: 342-404 (136.2 - 160.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Tera Dark Lokix Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 184-218 (48.5 - 57.5%) -- 93.4% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Dark Lokix Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Calyrex-Shadow: 1416-1672 (415.2 - 490.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Tera Bug Lokix First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Fire Ogerpon-Hearthflame-Tera: 316-372 (104.9 - 123.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Dark Lokix Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Volbeat: 254-300 (76 - 89.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Volbeat Lunge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Dark Lokix: 330-390 (116.6 - 137.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Dark Lokix Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Furret: 306-360 (98.3 - 115.7%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
In conclusion, don't ban ghold because it makes lokix worse
edit: I love how this completely satirical no-substance wall of calcs vs SEVIPER, PERSIAN, JOLTEON, and FURRET got more than 3 times the reacts than my actual in-depth essay on Lokix in the Niche Heat Brigade.
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Y’all are sleeping on Trick Room rn, the hyper offensive meta gets destroyed by it
Just look at this https://pokepast.es/e29a9556bce42967
Just look at this https://pokepast.es/e29a9556bce42967
I have never seen so many calcs for Lokix in my life. You deserve all the love in the world for the sheer dedication
Based lokix enjoyer, such a fun counterpick even if its not very good in OU
Now that I think about starting Gen 5 (if you consider Masquerain good) we got many Bug types that were really good or even OP
Yeah and I'm glad, I just feel bad for the gen 1-4 bug types that have absolutely nothing or not enough to get them to be viable in any context. (Outside of Beedrill who got a mega.)
Now I wonder if there will be a firepon quickban vote, as I wonder how many 4s and 5s the council is noticing on the survey and if it would be enough to warrant a quickban vote, because I would love for firepon to go
Bug is an underrated typing that gets overshadowed because it’s mostly on weak sub-400 BST early game.
Bug is good because it’s basically a pseudo Flying typing, where you resist Fighting/Ground/Grass while also not being weak to Electric or Ice. When you start giving Bug to Pokemon that aren’t dogshit in stats, Bug starts becoming not half bad.
Bug is good because it’s basically a pseudo Flying typing, where you resist Fighting/Ground/Grass while also not being weak to Electric or Ice. When you start giving Bug to Pokemon that aren’t dogshit in stats, Bug starts becoming not half bad.
I mean, mega scizor, volc, normal scizor, mega pinsir, mega beedrill, buzzwole, and kleavor are pretty good. Buzzwole is basically just tusk without hazards and removal but with reliable recovery. Mega beedrill, pinsir, and volc are just auto delete buttons. Kleavor is a solid hazard setter and scizor has strong priority and good bulk. (Forgot to include new gen nine mons like lokix but lokix is a great revenge killer)
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"Buzzwole is basically tusk"
Sure. If it was DEATHLY allergic to air even more than it already is
In this tier, they're... aight. Munkidori is probably the member with the most potential, having special attacking prowess on the level of Tapu Lele without the terrain boost and boasting a pretty decent speed tier. Like Enamorus, though, who shares the same speed tier, it's decent enough to outspeed the slower half of the meta but you still get outpaced by the numerous fast threats like Valiant and Meowscarada. This limits Munkidori's chances of being a good Nasty Plot sweeper or Specs breaker heavily imo as it's defensive typing isn't quite as good as Enamorus, who is already starting to fall off imo. Choice Scarf sets, however, are pretty dope and are the best chance the monke has of separating itself into a solid niche. It's strong, fast enough to RKill stuff, and can potentially spread some Toxic Chain around. Probably a B rank guy
Okidogi might honestly be better than the monke and it's all thanks to its potential of using Tera efficiently mixed with its Bulk Up sets on Screens teams. It becomes a PAIN to break through very quickly and has the tools in Drain Punch and Knock Off to sustain itself and make some progress, Toxic Chain helping it out tremendously in chipping checks like Great Tusk and Lando-T. Biggest issue with Dogi is that it kinda needs to Tera to sweep realistically, so its a bit support reliant, but not the worst.
Fezandipiti I've seen being used to some success as a SpD pivot but I still dunno if it has much of a niche overall.
Dogi and Munki probably will chill in the B ranks for now, dogi could be a case like buzzwole where it finds a nice home on Bulky Offense and Balance as its a pretty strong bulk up sweeper that also can be used to mess with ting lu and landorus-t if you are willing to run air balloon guard dog dogi just to harass them. Also poison/fighting is pretty neat defensively as well even with that nasty 4x psychic weakness. Best part about Dogi is that Gholdengo despite being faster cannot come in on you safely since you are probably running knock off to remove its item. I think Dogi probably has the most potential to be a legitimate OU pokemon, but all 3 will likely drop to UU. I think Dogi is able to differentiate itself from other bulky offense mons to find a potential place in the meta even if its not OU initially.
Munki is a pretty formidable sweeper but it gets shut down insanely hard by steel types, and has to rely on focus Blast to get past them, and getting walled by ghold is a yikes. Why run this over enamorus-I as an offensive sweeper?
I don't need to say a word about Fezandipiti, definitely not something you want to use ideally.
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