Unpopular opinions

[Esserise]

Teal Mask

Kitakami people are just weird imo.

Like Ogerpon was considered scary or whatever before the masks allowed it to roam freely and not be bullied but look how cute it is without the masks! Whereas all the masks (besides maybe Wellspring) make it look even more menacing…

Spoiler

To be fair, Ogerpon and its partner came down from the mountain wearing the masks during the Festival of Masks, a time when everyone would have been wearing masks with various qualities and artistic characterizations to them. Going into the event, there’s a layer of artifice that everyone is aware of — it’s that time when everyone in town puts on masks, so even if you saw someone with a mask resembling a scary oni, you’d know it was just your neighbor and your response would probably be along the lines of, “Oh, that’s a cool mask!”

Shunning the man and Ogerpon initially had less to do with them being considered ugly or scary-looking in particular, and more to do with them simply looking different from the Kitakamians at all. Just pure xenophobia.

What gets me is more that the villagers at the festivals… couldn’t tell it was Ogerpon anyway? Like, even with the mask, I feel like it’s hard not to recognize the distinctive cloak and wooden legs of a creature you’ve already shunned once. As effective disguises go, it’s on the level of Dexio and Sina as the Masked Heroes.

Maybe the locals were just always getting hammered on apple cider come festival time.

 

[Pikachu315111]

Spoiler

What gets me is more that the villagers at the festivals… couldn’t tell it was Ogerpon anyway? Like, even with the mask, I feel like it’s hard not to recognize the distinctive cloak and wooden legs of a creature you’ve already shunned once. As effective disguises go, it’s on the level of Dexio and Sina as the Masked Heroes.

Maybe the locals were just always getting hammered on apple cider come festival time.

Backstory spoiler video

From what I understood, after coming to festivals with the masks on the people of Kitakami knew they were the strangers they originally shunned, but they got cool masks now so they're okay now.

What gets me is that, after the Loyal Three, Pokemon that as far as I understand just showed up and never interacted with the village at all, we beaten up by Ogerpon the villagers SOMEHOW made up a story the three were defending the village from Ogerpon (which only seemed to have attacked the three and went away). And then when the Mask Maker, the only true friend the stranger and Ogerpon in the village, tried to explain what happened, the people ridiculed him!

I haven't finished the story yet, but does it mention anywhere the Loyal Three did ANYTHING with the villagers to make them trust them before going to steal Ogerpon's masks? Because the ancient Kitakami people made a huge jump in assuming these random Pokemon Ogerpon went after was protecting them... and then refused to change and fiercely defender their viewpoint.

 

[pika pal]

Spoiler

To be fair, Ogerpon and its partner came down from the mountain wearing the masks during the Festival of Masks, a time when everyone would have been wearing masks with various qualities and artistic characterizations to them. Going into the event, there’s a layer of artifice that everyone is aware of — it’s that time when everyone in town puts on masks, so even if you saw someone with a mask resembling a scary oni, you’d know it was just your neighbor and your response would probably be along the lines of, “Oh, that’s a cool mask!”

Shunning the man and Ogerpon initially had less to do with them being considered ugly or scary-looking in particular, and more to do with them simply looking different from the Kitakamians at all. Just pure xenophobia.

What gets me is more that the villagers at the festivals… couldn’t tell it was Ogerpon anyway? Like, even with the mask, I feel like it’s hard not to recognize the distinctive cloak and wooden legs of a creature you’ve already shunned once. As effective disguises go, it’s on the level of Dexio and Sina as the Masked Heroes.

Maybe the locals were just always getting hammered on apple cider come festival time.

Backstory spoiler video

From what I understood, after coming to festivals with the masks on the people of Kitakami knew they were the strangers they originally shunned, but they got cool masks now so they're okay now.

What gets me is that, after the Loyal Three, Pokemon that as far as I understand just showed up and never interacted with the village at all, we beaten up by Ogerpon the villagers SOMEHOW made up a story the three were defending the village from Ogerpon (which only seemed to have attacked the three and went away). And then when the Mask Maker, the only true friend the stranger and Ogerpon in the village, tried to explain what happened, the people ridiculed him!

I haven't finished the story yet, but does it mention anywhere the Loyal Three did ANYTHING with the villagers to make them trust them before going to steal Ogerpon's masks? Because the ancient Kitakami people made a huge jump in assuming these random Pokemon Ogerpon went after was protecting them... and then refused to change and fiercely defender their viewpoint.

Note: These cover the entire Teal Mask in case anyone's still in-progress with the story.

Teal Mask

My theory is that Ogerpon's cloak was not something it wore until the two of them started living secluded on the Mountain, so it wasn't recognizable when they visited the festival as the other discernible feature outside the masks, and since it changes with the mask I assume it's, if not clothing, at least a feature she has the means to alter. The backstory says they were shunned as outsiders, so it would make sense as another disguise so Ogerpon wasn't recognizable at a glance if she went out for something and was seen, even without interacting with people. Even when your character and Carmine see her at the festival, they assume she's a presumably human child until after she loses the mask and leaves.

My issue moreso is that Kitakami's people feel a little fickle with the story. They shun Ogerpon and her trainer as outsiders, but hail the Loyal Three as Heroes because they die fighting what they thought was a vicious Ogre (I assume from the story drift that they don't know these two to be the same creatures). Centuries later, these long dead heroes inexplicably return to life (we have speculative bases but no one in-universe has a clue how that happened) and are immediately given the old masks (when in the story they were taken to weaken the Ogre they fought rather than doing them any good) along with a bunch of motchi. All this to say the people of Kitakami still seem to put a lot of stock in the legend such that they don't question strange going-ons involving the Loyal Three at this stage.

I can sort of get the hailing of the Loyal Three coming as a consequence of opposing Ogerpon, who's scary, powerful, and carrying a big stick while they hadn't even seen the Loyal Three much until now, so their first impression is "die fighting big monster and then monster leaves" so they filled in the gaps. This again assuming they don't know Ogerpon to be both this shunned foreign Pokemon and the Monster in question (does the text suggest they assume the Ogre to be a Pokemon or just a straight up Beast?)

And yet within the day people are not only convinced just at Kieran's insistence that the Loyal Three were rogues, but they get past their fear of Ogerpon as the Ogre and Prejudice as an outsider (despite Carmine implying the sentiment still exists even if not as intense centuries later). It feels like a very fast turn-around for a deep-seated cornerstone of their culture and folklore, and I honestly think Ogerpon choosing to go with you makes more sense under the lens that she doesn't want to stay in Kitakami even if they claim to accept her now.

 

[Apolo123]

Showdown needs rules to be revised.

I love the battle system and I love pokemon, but this game is absolutelly toxic.
The misses aren't random. If you are in a winning strike, the chance of missing increases.
Teams should be balanced in random battles. Its common to confront a team with 6 legendaries when you have a Delibird.

Showdown is supposed to be funny, but every time that i play, i regret myself :/

 

[Esserise]

Backstory spoiler video

From what I understood, after coming to festivals with the masks on the people of Kitakami knew they were the strangers they originally shunned, but they got cool masks now so they're okay now.

What gets me is that, after the Loyal Three, Pokemon that as far as I understand just showed up and never interacted with the village at all, we beaten up by Ogerpon the villagers SOMEHOW made up a story the three were defending the village from Ogerpon (which only seemed to have attacked the three and went away). And then when the Mask Maker, the only true friend the stranger and Ogerpon in the village, tried to explain what happened, the people ridiculed him!

I haven't finished the story yet, but does it mention anywhere the Loyal Three did ANYTHING with the villagers to make them trust them before going to steal Ogerpon's masks? Because the ancient Kitakami people made a huge jump in assuming these random Pokemon Ogerpon went after was protecting them... and then refused to change and fiercely defender their viewpoint.

Spoiler

Hmm. On the first point, you may be right — I can sort of see it both ways. I think the way it’s said that the intention was for them to “secretly” join the festival suggests that the idea was for the villagers to not know who they were, and that they just figured them to be passers-through with ornate masks. But, at the same time, it still doesn’t seem like it would be hard to do the math. A foreign man and ogre show up > they get shunned and move to the nearby mountain > two strangers with unusual masks start appearing at the annual festival. In all the subsequent discourse and fascination about the pair, it’d be pretty easy for the villagers to ask among themselves who those two could have been, and to then rule out each of their neighbors as candidates.

On the second point, I think it was less about anything the Loyal Three actually did, and more about Ogerpon’s rage feeding into the villagers’ confirmation bias. Even if they did know that the masked pair were truly the man and the ogre and were willing to have them walk around at the festival, discovering that the ogre had suddenly run wild and beat three random Pokémon to death would probably make at least a few people think something along the lines of, “See, I suspected it all along! It was just a matter of time before the ogre showed its true colors!”

Note: These cover the entire Teal Mask in case anyone's still in-progress with the story.

Teal Mask

My theory is that Ogerpon's cloak was not something it wore until the two of them started living secluded on the Mountain, so it wasn't recognizable when they visited the festival as the other discernible feature outside the masks, and since it changes with the mask I assume it's, if not clothing, at least a feature she has the means to alter. The backstory says they were shunned as outsiders, so it would make sense as another disguise so Ogerpon wasn't recognizable at a glance if she went out for something and was seen, even without interacting with people. Even when your character and Carmine see her at the festival, they assume she's a presumably human child until after she loses the mask and leaves.

Spoiler

The only problem I see with this theory is that the backstory video shows Ogerpon wearing its cloak at the very start. I agree that the villagers might have, as Carmine did, assumed that it was just a full costume, but it still seems a little too conspicuous to me. Maybe the villagers just shunned the man and Ogerpon so quickly that they didn’t remember much of what they actually looked like?

Spoiler

My issue moreso is that Kitakami's people feel a little fickle with the story. They shun Ogerpon and her trainer as outsiders, but hail the Loyal Three as Heroes because they die fighting what they thought was a vicious Ogre (I assume from the story drift that they don't know these two to be the same creatures). Centuries later, these long dead heroes inexplicably return to life (we have speculative bases but no one in-universe has a clue how that happened) and are immediately given the old masks (when in the story they were taken to weaken the Ogre they fought rather than doing them any good) along with a bunch of motchi. All this to say the people of Kitakami still seem to put a lot of stock in the legend such that they don't question strange going-ons involving the Loyal Three at this stage.

I can sort of get the hailing of the Loyal Three coming as a consequence of opposing Ogerpon, who's scary, powerful, and carrying a big stick while they hadn't even seen the Loyal Three much until now, so their first impression is "die fighting big monster and then monster leaves" so they filled in the gaps. This again assuming they don't know Ogerpon to be both this shunned foreign Pokemon and the Monster in question (does the text suggest they assume the Ogre to be a Pokemon or just a straight up Beast?)

And yet within the day people are not only convinced just at Kieran's insistence that the Loyal Three were rogues, but they get past their fear of Ogerpon as the Ogre and Prejudice as an outsider (despite Carmine implying the sentiment still exists even if not as intense centuries later). It feels like a very fast turn-around for a deep-seated cornerstone of their culture and folklore, and I honestly think Ogerpon choosing to go with you makes more sense under the lens that she doesn't want to stay in Kitakami even if they claim to accept her now.

Spoiler

Yeah, I definitely come out of it with a sense that the Kitakamians are a very fickle bunch. Granted, prejudice isn’t rational, so it doesn’t exactly strike me as implausible up until, as you said, Kieran managing to change the villagers’ outlook in the space of an afternoon. I think that’s a result of combining pure narrative expediency with the series’s generally extremely optimistic outlook.

 

[Sugarbear]

Open team sheets is brilliant. It makes the game much more skill based, rather than trying to catch your opponent off guard with gimmicks.

Focus Sash is a bad item in 6v6 singles. There is just too much passive damage flying around for it to be consistent. Unless you’re a suicide lead (or your name is Alakazam I guess) there are always better items to use.

Baton Pass never should’ve been banned.

I genuinely do not understand why people enjoy using stall teams. What is fun about switch switch switch, protect, recover, toxic, switch switch switch? 1 wall is all you need on your team.

 

[Ironmage]

Open team sheets is brilliant. It makes the game much more skill based, rather than trying to catch your opponent off guard with gimmicks.

Focus Sash is a bad item in 6v6 singles. There is just too much passive damage flying around for it to be consistent. Unless you’re a suicide lead (or your name is Alakazam I guess) there are always better items to use.

Baton Pass never should’ve been banned.

I genuinely do not understand why people enjoy using stall teams. What is fun about switch switch switch, protect, recover, toxic, switch switch switch? 1 wall is all you need on your team.

I have the weird thing in that I like having defensive teams that don't deal a lot of direct damage (often excepting a late-game finisher), but also much prefer staying in and progressing the board state than switching back and forth until the opponent runs out of offensive resources. That progress just takes the form of status, damage-over-time, and hazard stacking.

I personally don't get the appeal of Hyper Offense, since it feels like games are over before you can do something interesting with them.

 

[pika pal]

As someone who doesn't play them myself, I feel the appeal of defensive/stall teams in Comp Pokemon is that you have to be able to read and respond to the opponent repeatedly to maintain that advantage long enough, whereas Hyper Offense is based around needing to get one or two good reads/predictions/lucky shots and then ride that momentum as long as they can. In that regard, it feels like it rewards engagement and knowing not just the team, but your opponent specifically and what they will do very frequently.

Hyper Offense in that regard reminds me of Turf War in Splatoon: It can be fun when everyone's throwing shots around, but it becomes very easy for it to just snap to a clear winner without feeling like you pushed for it so much as got lucky/unlucky on a key moment (EX: The Sniper picks you guys off and now you can't get past the advancing guys to remove said Sniper and thus break back to fight for the center).

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

I liked when all mons could cap all stats more tbh.

 

[Coronis]

I liked when all mons could cap all stats more tbh.

You mean Gen 1/2?

 

[Karxrida]

I feel like some Yugioh players would disagree about "quickly" sending broken stuff to the banlist.

Konami killed PePe format after like a week, so Yu-Gi-Oh does get fast bans sometimes. Once every blue moon when it lands on a Thursday in December. But it happens.

Uhhhhh so this isn't a one-liner: a decent chunk of the Unova Pokédex is kind of lame? And I don't mean easy targets like Garbador, I mean the Pokémon that are clearly stand-ins for "staple" roles (e.g. Pidove as the generational Pidgey equivalent) and their overall battle prowess. This is a problem with early game BW in particular, and it feels extra bland to me for some reason because of it.

 

[MisogiKurakawa]

Konami killed PePe format after like a week, so Yu-Gi-Oh does get fast bans sometimes. Once every blue moon when it lands on a Thursday in December. But it happens.

Uhhhhh so this isn't a one-liner: a decent chunk of the Unova Pokédex is kind of lame? And I don't mean easy targets like Garbador, I mean the Pokémon that are clearly stand-ins for "staple" roles (e.g. Pidove as the generational Pidgey equivalent) and their overall battle prowess. This is a problem with early game BW in particular, and it feels extra bland to me for some reason because of it.

Yeah, I'm inclined to agree there. Unova has a lot of my favourite lines, but they're all later on. The early-game, with a few exceptions (hi Excadrill) is mostly junkmons with little in the way of interesting or useful kits.

 

[Samtendo09]

Konami killed PePe format after like a week, so Yu-Gi-Oh does get fast bans sometimes. Once every blue moon when it lands on a Thursday in December. But it happens.

Uhhhhh so this isn't a one-liner: a decent chunk of the Unova Pokédex is kind of lame? And I don't mean easy targets like Garbador, I mean the Pokémon that are clearly stand-ins for "staple" roles (e.g. Pidove as the generational Pidgey equivalent) and their overall battle prowess. This is a problem with early game BW in particular, and it feels extra bland to me for some reason because of it.

Yeah, I'm inclined to agree there. Unova has a lot of my favourite lines, but they're all later on. The early-game, with a few exceptions (hi Excadrill) is mostly junkmons with little in the way of interesting or useful kits.

Yeah, the early game had done a bad first impression when it comes to concept and design, but mechanic-wise, it’s necessary that they aren’t top tier materials so that it would not completely power crept the four past regions… of which there were no Pokémon from those regions back in BW.

If most of the early game Pokémon physical design aren’t so bad, Unova‘s Pokédex as a whole would have a much less divisive reception.

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

Yeah, the early game had done a bad first impression when it comes to concept and design, but mechanic-wise, it’s necessary that they aren’t top tier materials so that it would not completely power crept the four past regions… of which there were no Pokémon from those regions back in BW.

If most of the early game Pokémon physical design aren’t so bad, Unova‘s Pokédex as a whole would have a much less divisive reception.

Ironically, Gen 5's power creep in comp was ridiculous.

But I digress, the main problem here really is BW1's game design as a whole. Like RBY, it's structured like an ordinary RPG, which means that you're really better off swapping most of those trash early-game mons off your team.

In practice, this leads to several problems like a lot of Gen 5's bloated dex being nothing but fodder, especially with later gens' power creeps, and the awkward level requirements for BW1's late-game evos.

 

[Castersvarog]

Ironically, Gen 5's power creep in comp was ridiculous.

But I digress, the main problem here really is BW1's game design as a whole. Like RBY, it's structured like an ordinary RPG, which means that you're really better off swapping most of those trash early-game mons off your team.

In practice, this leads to several problems like a lot of Gen 5's bloated dex being nothing but fodder, especially with later gens' power creeps, and the awkward level requirements for BW1's late-game evos.

I’d also mention the odd type distribution in a few key areas, like Water types being extremely rare to find outside of starter and the monkey. It’s why I think Oshawott is the best Gen 5 starter, there’s just not enough good options until you’re over half way through the game, after they would hit their peak use against Clay

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

I’d also mention the odd type distribution in a few key areas, like Water types being extremely rare to find outside of starter and the monkey. It’s why I think Oshawott is the best Gen 5 starter, there’s just not enough good options until you’re over half way through the game, after they would hit their peak use against Clay

I'd personally say Oshawott is the best Gen 5 starter because the other two suck.

But yeah, BW1 fell into a lot of odd pitfalls design-wise.

 

[MisogiKurakawa]

I’d also mention the odd type distribution in a few key areas, like Water types being extremely rare to find outside of starter and the monkey. It’s why I think Oshawott is the best Gen 5 starter, there’s just not enough good options until you’re over half way through the game, after they would hit their peak use against Clay

Fun fact, Basculin was literally created last-minute for the reason that the devs realized they lacked much of anything to fill the waterways with.

But yeah, I can actually understand the reasoning here. The first four gens were loaded with Water types, to a downright comical degree, and that is because of simple logistics. If areas and routes are intended to be set with the player crossing large stretches of water, then logically what you'd encounter are going to stuff like fish, squid, and other marine animals, which are going to be associated with Water-type because, well, what else are they going to be associated with. And, since there's a lot of ocean in the world and a lot less of most environments you'd associate with a single type, those singulars take precedent.

For a little reference, here's the number of fully-evolved Water-types introduced in each gen:

1. Gen 1: 16
2. Gen 2: 11 (10 discounting Kingdra)
3. Gen 3: 14
4. Gen 4: 8 (7 discounting Rotom-Wash)
5. Gen 5: 9
6. Gen 6: 4
7. Gen 7: 8
8. Gen 8: 9 (6 discounting Urshifu, H-Samurott, and Basculeigion)
9. Gen 9: 10 (8 discounting P-Tauros and Ogerpon)

Says a lot, huh?

 

[Yung Dramps]

Fun fact, Basculin was literally created last-minute for the reason that the devs realized they lacked much of anything to fill the waterways with.

But yeah, I can actually understand the reasoning here. The first four gens were loaded with Water types, to a downright comical degree, and that is because of simple logistics. If areas and routes are intended to be set with the player crossing large stretches of water, then logically what you'd encounter are going to stuff like fish, squid, and other marine animals, which are going to be associated with Water-type because, well, what else are they going to be associated with. And, since there's a lot of ocean in the world and a lot less of most environments you'd associate with a single type, those singulars take precedent.

For a little reference, here's the number of fully-evolved Water-types introduced in each gen:

1. Gen 1: 16
2. Gen 2: 11 (10 discounting Kingdra)
3. Gen 3: 14
4. Gen 4: 8 (7 discounting Rotom-Wash)
5. Gen 5: 9
6. Gen 6: 4
7. Gen 7: 8
8. Gen 8: 9 (6 discounting Urshifu, H-Samurott, and Basculeigion)
9. Gen 9: 10 (8 discounting P-Tauros and Ogerpon)

Says a lot, huh?

My favorite "type demographics" fun fact is how over half of this series' Poison types were from Kanto all the way up until Alola or Galar

 

[MisogiKurakawa]

My favorite "type demographics" fun fact is how over half of this series' Poison types were from Kanto all the way up until Alola or Galar

In regards to that, I think it had to do with the way Gen I was made. If this analysis is to be believed, it's very likely that Poison was largely used as a "placeholder" type to cover for how many lines weren't designed with types in mind.

 

[Just A Seaking]

In practice, this leads to several problems like a lot of Gen 5's bloated dex being nothing but fodder, especially with later gens' power creeps, and the awkward level requirements for BW1's late-game evos.

This last part in particular frustrates me, because we’re still chained to these ridiculous requirements all these years later. We’ve even had evolution retcons as of Gen 8, mostly related to stone evos - so why GF is so fixated on keeping these insanely steep levels and hindering some really cool ‘mons in-game is beyond me.

Even beyond this, though, BW1’s ‘Mon distribution is really poor and is their biggest problems as games. I can’t think of another game other than the Johto games that kick so many ‘mons to the final few hours of the game

 

[AztecCroc]

This last part in particular frustrates me, because we’re still chained to these ridiculous requirements all these years later. We’ve even had evolution retcons as of Gen 8, mostly related to stone evos - so why GF is so fixated on keeping these insanely steep levels and hindering some really cool ‘mons in-game is beyond me.

Because the evolutions they've retconned were tedious for them to implement, a Pokémon evolving at a high level is only tedious for the player.

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

Because the evolutions they've retconned were tedious for them to implement, a Pokémon evolving at a high level is only tedious for the player.

It's a matter of minutes. That's the kind of thing that playtesters for Gen 7 should've told them about and gotten fixed.

It's not believable that people looked at Noibat, Rufflet, and Vullaby that early and said "Hey, this might be a problem." Especially Noibat.

 

[Cobalt Empoleon]

This last part in particular frustrates me, because we’re still chained to these ridiculous requirements all these years later. We’ve even had evolution retcons as of Gen 8, mostly related to stone evos - so why GF is so fixated on keeping these insanely steep levels and hindering some really cool ‘mons in-game is beyond me.

Pawniard in SV is the most egregious example imo, because if you do the bosses in roughly the intended order and stay close to the level curve, it'll evolve pretty much right when you reach the bamboo forest where the Leader's Crest Bisharp are. If you know Kingambit's evolution requirements and try to meet them as soon as possible, you'll likely have Bisharp for only 1-2 levels after having raised Pawniard for 30-35.

Even beyond this, though, BW1’s ‘Mon distribution is really poor and is their biggest problems as games. I can’t think of another game other than the Johto games that kick so many ‘mons to the final few hours of the game

BW's minimal HM requirements, along with the story generally being more compelling than in other main series games, actually make this problem feel even worse to me. These are generally positive qualities, but they encourage the player to always keep moving forward to the next Gym or Plasma confrontation rather than backtrack and investigate side areas.

Deciding to catch and raise an unevolved Pokemon from the last couple of routes means either throwing it at endgame trainers or breaking the immersive sense of urgency that the game's built up to go exploring. This might not be so bad if the evolution levels of these Pokemon were like ~44-48, but the worst offenders probably still won't evolve in time without, like, quite a bit of time spent doing actual grinding against wild Pokemon lol.

 

[Scorpio]

I’d also mention the odd type distribution in a few key areas, like Water types being extremely rare to find outside of starter and the monkey. It’s why I think Oshawott is the best Gen 5 starter, there’s just not enough good options until you’re over half way through the game, after they would hit their peak use against Clay

So Tympole doesn’t exist and we’ve been lied to?

 

[Bakugames]

So Tympole doesn’t exist and we’ve been lied to?

Its funnier because it evolves into palpitoad right at the level of elesa, and basically trashes the entire team. Denies volt switch, just spam water moves, resist flame charge from zebstrika, good stats and decent moves.