Need I remind you why corv has been shoved out of the meta.
Not only is this an L take, it’s objectively wrong, being walled by ghold as a defogger IS a death sentence and we have seen it happen once already.
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v3
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Not only is this an L take, it’s objectively wrong, being walled by ghold as a defogger IS a death sentence and we have seen it happen once already.
And for the scizor set
GREAT LEAD
Has an amazing matchup against:
Ribom
Glimm
Samu-H
SD turn one, BP Forever and defog before you die! If you don’t use em as a lead, works as a great late game cleaner that isn’t vulnerable to gambit’s BS! Or just revenge killing, fogging, then pivoting out…
Scizor @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Technician
Tera Type: steel
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Defog
- Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch
- U-turn
GREAT LEAD
Has an amazing matchup against:
Ribom
Glimm
Samu-H
SD turn one, BP Forever and defog before you die! If you don’t use em as a lead, works as a great late game cleaner that isn’t vulnerable to gambit’s BS! Or just revenge killing, fogging, then pivoting out…
Scizor @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Technician
Tera Type: steel
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Defog
- Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch
- U-turn
You got the username “DaddyBuzzwole” you prolly been imagining all this the moment stats and ability leaks for the new Pokémon started coming out for the game.
How does this work well vs gambit? In the best case scenario, you do 70% with +2 u-turn, and then they +2 Sucker you and you die. That's assuming that you were setup beforehand, and that you're facing the offensive varient with no bulk evs. And I don't believe this has the positive matchup into glimm and samu-h. Glimm is guaranteed to set at least toxic spikes with bullet punch and probably stealth rock and has a roll to 2HKO with Power Gem. Samu-H has a favorable roll to 2HKO with Ceaseless and your move you have to hit it is a pivot move, which forces you out. It also has Sucker Punch and Aqua Jet to get that damage on you before you bullet punch to finish it after sash.
i have my doubts about some of those. what does it actually do to pelipper after you tera and trap it? sure, you get to set up rocks maybe, but you get hurricaned in the process and take like 50% and then you have to switch out. doesn't seem very progress-making to me. also, it absolutely does not 1v1 waterpon sets that carry sd, especially if waterpon teras. and last of all, why are you presenting this as some sort of epic new tech when you literally copy-pasted it from the sample set page? we all already know what this set does
how do you plan on defogging without anything to threaten ghold? sure, you can u-turn on the switch and make progress that way like corv does, but this set doesn't even like u-turning because of the swords dance
whoops, my bad, i forgot that they changed the uu cutoff to 7.5% last month
oh? what's that? they didn't? then corv hasn't been shoved anywhere now has it
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Great Tuskto me is starting to feel less and less like the flawless mon it once was in early 2023. Like months ago Tusk felt like this insane source of role compression, but now running tusk seems harder and harder
You have to run ice spin, and perhaps knock off to try and catch ghold or gliscor on the switch in (though knock off distribution is better now; tusk still likes it). EQ is a very exploitable stab now which it wasnt much pre home, with the genies and the legendary birds easily switching in, Moltres in particular punishing contact with knock off or cc anyways. Tusk rarely uses cc now, as the defence drops are bad when you’re using defensive tusk to check stuff like kingambit. Defensive tusk cannot OHKO kingambit pre tera without EQ either, and kingambit knows this, and a fallen 5 +2 kingambit can very easily clean off a tusk with sucker
Tusk lacks the recovery or the hazard sprrading that gliscor has, too, and is very weak to status like sleep and toxic and burn. Gliscor, meanwhile, is status effect immune due to its toxic heal ability (when its activated), making it immune to the burn damage drops. Will-o-wispers had always been present in the metagame from the start e.g washtom, pult etc, but its gliscor who can ignore these without tera which makes it more appealing to me. Furthermore, the fighting secondary typing to me is becoming more and more of a hindrance to tusk, making it weak to fairy and flying (though the dark resistance is good against gambit, many can just tera blast fly or fairy to beat you)
It still has its merits tho, dont get me wrong, gliscor just does a lot of what it does better, with better healing and special defence. Its attack and physical bulk are still insane, I just think its not the titan that it used to be
nvm i lied. Tusk the Goat. If you ever think Tusk has fallen off its not Tusk’s fault, its your teambuilding. I’m sorry Tuskothy. I love you
Can the council just quickban gambit tho? Why does the majority need to play this shitty meta the minority wants?
Even if it is a minority, you have to respect the fact that it was not banned via suspect, and nothing really change for him, only the surroundings, therefore, quick banning it now would make the kingambit suspect look ridiculous. With enough support, they will eventually do another one in the future
Besides, its not that bad, If it is for suspects I think Ogerpon-Wellspring or Gliscor are both priority, 1 kills your entire team while the other walls your entire team
You guys quickly tested arena trap after dugtrio survived its suspect. Just test Supreme Overlord or redo the suspect. This mon is ruining the entire meta and everyone knows it'll be banned in a PR thread the second after the generation ends so as to respect the all knowing will of the minority. Most players will be happy if you quickban it, I don't know what the problem is tbh. A minority of players will be sad they can't go into their busted uno reverse card and then they'll either complain or quit but the meta will be better. It's crazy the correct outcome is just everyone tolerating this broken mon despite most voters wanting it gone.
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This implying that a normal person goes, ahh yes this scizor just SD’ed, and BP killed my hazard lead, maybe I should go Ghold.
For Tran, it wasn’t supposed to be revolutionary it was just supposed to be a commentary on Heatran’s viability, with the set I use being purely an example, which is the Sp. Def. Sample basically with Balloon instead of Lefties. Also, I do agree the Pelipper matchup wasn’t accurate based on my statement especially after your reasoning, I don’t know why I thought that. Its job against rain is trapping the rain abusers to stall rain and kill key mons, not die to a hurricane/surf. And the Water-Pon Matchup is shaky, but still very winnable when Tera’d, especially with taunt and hazards.
no lol the literal first thing to know about tiering is you can’t disrespect the result of a public
Many months later. A Kingambit suspect will be on the table, but you’re comparing apples and oranges / spreading borderline misinformation.
you know it doesn’t work this way and if you didn’t then read the dozens of posts outlining how horrid an idea this is
Yea no all I got from your post is that you don’t understand tiering and you have a misguided understanding of history/precedent, this whole paragraph is just silly
What samu and glimm sets are the calcs from? Curious
Also the samu matchup i do agree is worse then the ribo and glimm matchups, but also lead samu is kinda nonexistent and this set does better switching in on SD samus, scaring them out, and then applying pressure to remove hazards, setup, or pivot, all at once!
also the gambit statement was concerning getting reverse swept by gambit, and assumes you already were +2, in which you 2HKO gambit with BP if they aint maximum bulk in which they cant Ohko u with +2 sucker anyway
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Apparently most people don't want it gone, if it can't get a majority vote. Like, speaking as someone who really really wants Kingambit banned, suggesting to ban Supreme Overlord shows a complete lack of understanding how tiering works or why it works the way it does, and saying a quickban is reasonable after it wasn't banned in a suspect test by the OU playerbase is pretty unreasonable.
700 people upvoted this. The meta is bad. Going "he he he you don't understand the rules" is disingenuous and misses the obvious discontent in the community. You guys waste time running absolutely forgone conclusion suspects like Blood Moon and quickban clearly contentious things like Volcorona. A majority of the voters don't want Gambit in the tier. It's clearly broken as per Smogon's own tiering guidelines. Just fix the tier. Dunk away on me, many people agree this is not being handled well.
It DID get a majority vote
Gambit is fine now… clearly anybody who still dislikes it doesn’t know how to play against one sucker, hasn’t played since DLC, or hasn’t heard of the best gambit counter-> the oh so limiting move substitute+being faster then base 60 with any fighting or ground or fire coverage!
This is like half the ou tier btw… and mons outside the tier with good viability as well…
1) >Reddit
2) If kingambit was trully that broken, it would have been quickbanned, and if ursa was to be quickbanned instead of suspected, people would still have complained
3) now, volc was a slip, but these people have assumed and promised a volc suspect in the future
Rome wasn't built on 1 day
finchinator doesnt think the meta is that good either IIRC (he called ursa bm time the worst point since the early days)
he just doesnt want to break precedent and tiering policy, and while I think tiering policy needs work I respect that he doesn't want to rock the boat especially as the person who gets death threats when Ursaluna Bloodmoon gets banned with a 93% vote percentage
he just doesnt want to break precedent and tiering policy, and while I think tiering policy needs work I respect that he doesn't want to rock the boat especially as the person who gets death threats when Ursaluna Bloodmoon gets banned with a 93% vote percentage
No. No. No. You did not just cite a Reddit post with an arbitrary amount of updoots as proof that Smogon's rules are bad and the council is incompetent. You did not. You are not seriously trying to tell everyone here that this means for sure that everyone here is wrong. You are not. You are taking the piss. You are going to try again. You are not going to tell me that this random Stunfisk post holds more weight than a suspect test. Show us your real argument this time.
I know we're dunking on this guy together, but it is very silly to pretend that type coverage is an actual foolproof way to counter Kingambit when it's notorious for being one of the best users of Tera.
lmk when you’re willing to have a discussion that actually focuses on facts
Community surveys and community suspects cannot be ignored. Survey didn’t support Qban on Bloodmoon. Suspect didn’t support ban on Kingambit.
Volc process needed to be better and we fixed it this time around with DLC.
To put it bluntly, you’re being rude and your posts are shit. I’ll happily “dunk” on that.
Metagame is a lot better now than it was with Bloodmoon, but it still needs work.
But what I think is cool that -- and I hope to show in a side-by-side type of post in the future -- every bit of tiering action we have had has improved the metagame significantly. Survey scores on balance and enjoyability -- which I do hope to release side-by-side sometime later this month as a progression or graph -- go up significantly with each ban and I bet will with the ban of Bloodmoon, too.
We are still 1-2 pieces of tiering action away from a truly good metagame and we should be discussing underlying topics like Gholdengo-Hazards dynamic and Tera, too.
metagame is indeed a lot better now, only thing i see being problematic is waterpon but besides that its getting closer to what its peak was which was pre-home
Run more substitute sweepers… (great with current gliscor+gambit metagame)
Here moon n lando sets i like:
Landorus-Therian @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 232 Atk / 24 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Earthquake
- Smack Down
- Swords Dance
Roaring Moon @ Leftovers
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 200 HP / 76 Atk / 48 Def / 184 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Knock Off
Insert ummm ID press Zama here too!
Here moon n lando sets i like:
Landorus-Therian @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 232 Atk / 24 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Earthquake
- Smack Down
- Swords Dance
Roaring Moon @ Leftovers
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 200 HP / 76 Atk / 48 Def / 184 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Knock Off
Insert ummm ID press Zama here too!
My brother in christ ursaluna blood moon existed last month, the mon that sent blissey up from the cold depths of nu
I really don’t know why you’re spreading bullshit about corv being able to defog when we both know that ghold stops that entirely, and can grab free boosts from corv staying in.
The only reason defog corv was used at all before dlc is because it works against teams without ghold, and it’s better to have an option that won’t work if the hstack player uses their ghold well than to have nothing at all - except wait a minute, some teams do use nothing at all, electing to run 4+ mons with either boots or a natural resilience to spikes.
Again we ALL know that defog corv can’t do it’s fucking job because it’s walled by ghold, why are you now trying to deny that when it has been the literal only thing that has remained constant in this spikes infested metagame since the game’s fucking release - even gambit and chien pao weren’t used much in favour of roaring moon as a dark type in that first week, but ghold hstacks took off damn near immediately after flutter mane left the tier.
This gave me an idea, Unban Flutter mane so that Gholdengo drops to UU and Corviknight becomes good for like 5 minutes before realizing this was not actually the brightest idea
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