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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v3

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bro really changed their pfp oh my god at least be tasteful about it and use the tokyo ghoul one
CINDERBLOCK said:
at least with bax there was novelty involved with the crazy loaded dice scale shot spam. we've been playing these + 2 billion tera dark black glasses sucker punch mind games before fucking chatgpt even existed. Soon some of yall will be in the senior home trying to give your grandchildren advice on how to OHKO this obese fuck once the shit tera fairys.
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Again, speaking as someone who wants Kingambit banned, let's not pretend Bax didn't absolutely need to go to Ubers for being so braindead once it got Scale Shot. It's got more base Attack than Gambit and literally nothing beats the combo of Dragon/Ice/Ground. It's even got its own priority! At least you can burn Kingambit.
 
Return to Zero said:
Again, speaking as someone who wants Kingambit banned, let's not pretend Bax didn't absolutely need to go to Ubers for being so braindead once it got Scale Shot. It's got more base Attack than Gambit and literally nothing beats the combo of Dragon/Ice/Ground. It's even got its own priority! At least you can burn Kingambit.
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yeah i wasn't serious about unbanning that freak bax

just get rid of that bum gambit and maybe i'll start playing ou again until the next giga uber freak starts pissing me off
 
Negative Charge said:
Can the council just quickban gambit tho? Why does the majority need to play this shitty meta the minority wants?
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https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sv-ou-suspect-process-round-5-voting.3725955/

I don't see your name on the voting list. Maybe, if you're going to suggest we ignore the actual voters, become one of them first?

Edit: Further elaboration because this came out meaner than intended, but the majority of the players who whine and complain about how XYZ was wrongly decided and the council should quickban [thing they don't like] never even voted in the suspect. If you didn't vote, that means you're either note good enough (like me) or you couldn't be bothered, and in either case why should your complaints be given more weight than the suspect test?
 
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why is 80% of this thread someone either turning into the fucking joker bc of a pokemon competitive tier or just being the most disingenuous person thats more interested in harvesting reacts and epic owning people while ignoring a bunch of arguments, instead of just discussing the meta in the meta discussion thread. do you guys go outside. do you have other hobbies

anyway with bm gone, hows the veil teams going? bm was a great mon to use as it became pretty much unbreakable behind screens (esp with tera), so what abusers are people using now? ive seen some dnites and valiants
 
Finchinator said:
You are simply asking for us to quickban something or suspect it without community support, which would be power abuse. We did this with Volcarona and the community revolted. It was a mistake. My job is to lead the community's metagame, not some random OU forum poster's fantasy metagame.
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how can there be community support if you don't put the thing on surveys? there was plenty of discussion about it in this thread and elsewhere before even that first survey went up, it should have been mentioned in at least one of them. regarding the volc thing, you're overreacting to the community's overreaction. there were not "literal riots" or a "revolt". there were angry-reacts and sad-reacts and a couple complaint posts and then people moved on with their lives. you're going to end up getting more backlash for not doing something about gambit

Finchinator said:
We do not need more data. We have the data. It did not get enough support -- it was not even close.
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really? because 55.12% seems pretty close to 60% if you ask me. if that constitutes "not even close", then i can say that a majority of voters wanted kingambit banned and it wasn't even close because 55.12% is slightly further from a minority than it is from a supermajority

and for the record, we do need more data. the gambit suspect results are outdated statistics from a defunct meta and don't apply here, so we have exactly zero quantifiable information on how the community at large wants to approach kingambit in the post-dlc meta. you do not know whether there's adequate community support. neither do i. neither does anyone else in this thread until we PUT! GAMBIT! ON! A! FUCKING! SURVEY!
 
Bakugames said:
anyway with bm gone, hows the veil teams going? bm was a great mon to use as it became pretty much unbreakable behind screens (esp with tera), so what abusers are people using now? ive seen some dnites and valiants
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Saw one guy use Waterpon behind it for safe Swords Dance/Trailblaze use. The +1 SpDef after using Tera on that thing is way less of a joke than I thought it was, actually. Hits a ton neutrally with just STAB too.
 
Negative Charge said:
https://www.reddit.com/r/stunfisk/comments/1745690

700 people upvoted this. The meta is bad. Going "he he he you don't understand the rules" is disingenuous and misses the obvious discontent in the community. You guys waste time running absolutely forgone conclusion suspects like Blood Moon and quickban clearly contentious things like Volcorona. A majority of the voters don't want Gambit in the tier. It's clearly broken as per Smogon's own tiering guidelines. Just fix the tier. Dunk away on me, many people agree this is not being handled well.


It DID get a majority vote
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DUDE! GET SOME HELP! YOU ARE USING R/STUNFISK AS A "CREDIBLE (NOT REALLY)" SOURCE OF INFORMATION. Seriously tho, 700 people isn't actually that many. Also, right now gambit is fine, whether it's new toy syndrome or not, we'll have to see. But for now, gambit isn't even that bad with all the fairy, fighting, ground, steel, and water types in the tier.
 
Finchinator said:
Survey didn’t support Qban on Bloodmoon.
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Speaking of this Survey how come the results of it were never posted before the Suspect Test of BM started? We had the survey and know it exists but the results of it never got posted in the Survey thread or in this thread. There was a Radar about it but it didn't have the results of the survey in it.
 
Gohankuten said:
Speaking of this Survey how come the results of it were never posted before the Suspect Test of BM started?
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I alluded to a side-by-side survey post to show progression on some things -- they will go up when next survey does.

This is in part because I am very busy and in part because I think this is a cool thought experiment. Most results have been alluded to, but if you have questions on specific, tag/quote me anytime
 
Return to Zero said:
Saw one guy use Waterpon behind it for safe Swords Dance/Trailblaze use. The +1 SpDef after using Tera on that thing is way less of a joke than I thought it was, actually. Hits a ton neutrally with just STAB too.
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that sounds disgusting as fuck, i kinda love it LOL. I also remembered a lot of manaphy on veil teams, which makes taking it out before it can start going really hard. I lost the first time I saw it, and after it really is either denying screens from going up (hard cuz atales is not as frail as you think), deny manaphy a chance at all, or encore valiant into a set up move, preference being acid armor but take heart can work with waterpon alive
 
I get Negative Charge and others' dislike for Kingambit and think it needs to go as well, but we probably need to sit down and realize a Gambit suspect isn't going to happen (even though I think that more than enough time has passed since the first Gambit suspect test) likely until after DLC2 and its first wave of bans. Which is a shame, because it's a big reason why I dislike this metagame so much, but it is what it is, I guess.

Let's just hope it actually gets banned when that suspect comes around.
 
DaddyBuzzwole said:
regarding the volc thing, you're overreacting to the community's overreaction. there were not "literal riots" or a "revolt". there were angry-reacts and sad-reacts and a couple complaint posts and then people moved on with their lives. you're going to end up getting more backlash for not doing something about gambit
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Dude, people still bring up Volcarona as a case of apparent council abuse. Someone did in this thread not but a few hours ago, in fact. There's a pretty vocal crowd of people who have very much not moved on with their lives. I think that's the real impact of the decision honestly, that it's the favorite foothold of every weirdo who has any tiering-related gripe. Just going off the suspect test numbers, that's 45% of players who will react similarly if Kingambit gets quickbanned in spite of it. Maybe with like six month's hindsight I'll look back at myself and wonder why I didn't push to have it quickbanned when faced with the hellscape of 60% usage and Indigo Disk somehow managing to buff it, but right now I can't get behind encouraging the council to start another very contentious fire I know I'll be hearing about all the way in Gen 11 OU.
Bakugames said:
that sounds disgusting as fuck, i kinda love it LOL. I also remembered a lot of manaphy on veil teams, which makes taking it out before it can start going really hard. I lost the first time I saw it, and after it really is either denying screens from going up (hard cuz atales is not as frail as you think), deny manaphy a chance at all, or encore valiant into a set up move, preference being acid armor but take heart can work with waterpon alive
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Encore is about to go crazy I feel. There's a lot of boosting threats in the metagame right now like Manaphy, Waterpon, Dragonite sometimes, Zamazenta, Sneasler. A-Ninetales coming around and making screens meta so everyone wants to sit behind them and click a two stage buff with no attack is making Encore really good. It's been used against me way more than it was pre-DLC.
 
Finchinator said:
I have said on countless occasions it will be on the next one. I will say it again.
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where? because i just looked through your post history for "kingambit" and didn't see anything about including it on future surveys. "gambit" didn't bring up anything either, nor did "survey". if you did say something about this, it must have been too vague for me to pick up on it, or i just forgot. my apologies for missing that
 
Pando067 said:
Seriously tho, 700 people isn't actually that many.
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Of these 700, many of them have yet to actually play SV OU and just dislike Smogon. Many others have yet to play it beyond a few fames. And only a handful have played it at a high level.

Even if most were genuine, we have tens of thousands of unique players each month and probably hundreds of thousands over the course of a year/generation. This tier is bigger than a subreddit, an OU forum, a council, and so on.

Nobody who knows what they are talking about values that number/post.
 
DaddyBuzzwole said:
where? because i just looked through your post history for "kingambit" and didn't see anything about including it on future surveys. "gambit" didn't bring up anything either, nor did "survey". if you did say something about this, it must have been too vague for me to pick up on it, or i just forgot. my apologies for missing that
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I think he's mentioned it on Twitter a few times, but I can't say for certain.
 
Bakugames said:
why is 80% of this thread someone either turning into the fucking joker bc of a pokemon competitive tier or just being the most disingenuous person thats more interested in harvesting reacts and epic owning people while ignoring a bunch of arguments, instead of just discussing the meta in the meta discussion thread. do you guys go outside. do you have other hobbies

anyway with bm gone, hows the veil teams going? bm was a great mon to use as it became pretty much unbreakable behind screens (esp with tera), so what abusers are people using now? ive seen some dnites and valiants
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Fr, certain people should stop whining about gambit because it didn't get banned and it won't be until after dlc2.

Also, veil is still cooking. I've had success using roaring moon, bu tusk, valiant, and sinistcha (yes, the weird teapot mon) on veil, but waterpon, haxorus, and manaphy also work alright in veil I think (also frosmoth? but it might be really gimmicky).
 
DaddyBuzzwole said:
where? because i just looked through your post history for "kingambit" and didn't see anything about including it on future surveys. "gambit" didn't bring up anything either, nor did "survey". if you did say something about this, it must have been too vague for me to pick up on it, or i just forgot. my apologies for missing that
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Everything on the radar (with rare exception -- which is said otherwise) has been said to be on the survey. This has held true all generation, too. I have also discussed it on PS, twitter, and discord, too. I have been about as communicative and transparent as humanly possible, tbh. No, there is not a post where I said "Kingambit is on the next survey" verbatim, but it is still common knowledge given the everything else. I have not had to outright say it word-for-word on other things and I hope I do not have to start...
 
Return to Zero said:
Encore is about to go crazy I feel. There's a lot of boosting threats in the metagame right now like Manaphy, Waterpon, Dragonite sometimes, Zamazenta, Sneasler. A-Ninetales coming around and making screens meta so everyone wants to sit behind them and click a two stage buff with no attack is making Encore really good. It's been used against me way more than it was pre-DLC.
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100% encore val is one of its best sets rn, it alleviates a lot of pressure from this heavy stat booster sweeper meta, and its still useful if it locks your foe on a damaging move anyway. It's the best way to shut down manaphy where it either sits and lets you reverse sweep it or has to be forced back out and gives opening to you, it can catch moon and dnite off guard and then boost in their faces and clean the rest of the team or at least hurt it enough for something like waterpon to clean
 
Finchinator said:
Everything on the radar (with rare exception -- which is said otherwise) has been said to be on the survey. This has held true all generation, too. I have also discussed it on PS, twitter, and discord, too. I have been about as communicative and transparent as humanly possible, tbh. No, there is not a post where I said "Kingambit is on the next survey" verbatim, but it is still common knowledge given the everything else. I have not had to outright say it word-for-word on other things and I hope I do not have to start...
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i appreciate your transparency but as a matter of fact it genuinely would help me a lot if you would outright state things like that from time to time. this shouldn't be surprising to anyone, but i have autism and sometimes it can be difficult for me to pick up all the implications of everything, especially when it's just text with no body language or voice tone behind it
Shinto7654 said:
Can it involve taking your posting privileges away?
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if that's the price i must pay for gambit to be banned, so be it
 
DaddyBuzzwole said:
i appreciate your transparency but as a matter of fact it genuinely would help me a lot if you would outright state things like that from time to time. this shouldn't be surprising to anyone, but i have autism and sometimes it can be difficult for me to pick up all the implications of everything, especially when it's just text with no body language or voice tone behind it
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I appreciate your clarification and fully understand. It is important we all work to help each other here after all!

I cannot promise I will always remember to outright say things, but you can always PM me on here, DM me on discord, DM me on twitter, or find me on PS if you have questions.

With that in mind, I would expect at least Roaring Moon, Ogerpon-Wellspring, Manaphy, and Kingambit from the last radar (with the potential for Gholdengo or Gliscor to make it) and potentially other Pokemon like Sneasler to be included on the upcoming survey. The timeline for it is likely next week, but it could be a bit sooner or later.
 
Finchinator said:
I have said on countless occasions it will be on the next one. I will say it again.

But to say it had close to the support of Bax, Ogerpon-Hearth, or Bloodmoon is just laughable. And that has been 3 bans in less than a month despite one needing a suspect already. If you want more, you're just being unrealistic.
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Three bans in less than a month seems unrealistic. Kingambit ban and make it more unrealistic. Let’s go!!!!
 
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