Pinkacross 's team is a good example of taking a niche mon and making it work. You don't just slap things on and wonder why it doesn't work. Anyways, nice job pinka :)
I don't think it will rise to OU, but that would be cool if it did.
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v3
- Thread starter TPP
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Pinkacross 's team is a good example of taking a niche mon and making it work. You don't just slap things on and wonder why it doesn't work. Anyways, nice job pinka :)
I don't think it will rise to OU, but that would be cool if it did.
I've been trying to get reqs, I've faced at least 10 different monoclaw teams (and I haven't even laddered that much on suspect alts) and those are only the teams I know are monoclaw. They are everywhere. And there are absolutely no legitimate strategies that have collateral damage from a quick claw ban.
Could you stop condescending to absolutely everyone who tries to interact with you every single time? And maybe perhaps even try to answer the questions that are being asked of you instead of dodging them because you clearly don't have an argument?
Anyways, I genuinely can't believe we're arguing about Sleep Clause here. Unless you're arguing in favour of Sleep Moves Clause instead of the current implementation, you're arguing in favour of objectively one of the worst mechanics in the game being completely unrestricted and forcing every single team to have a sleeper (preferably a spore mon). What the fuck has possessed this community as of late that we're genuinely arguing about whether or not shit like the fundamental, basic rules that make this game even remotely playable in a competitive context should stay around?
If you want to go play worse metagames with objectively uncompetitive bullshit like Evasion/OHKO moves, go play BSS or VGC. We have standards around here.
Quite literally nobody advocating for the change in sleep clause think it is acceptable entirely free. Most of us are either advocating for an alteration to be possibly cartridge accurate, or banning sleep moves.
What alteration could you possibly make that would be fair and 100% cartridge accurate? If you want to ban any move that causes sleep, fair enough- but Sleep Clause as it stands is as good as you're going to get.
I don't believe cart accuracy is very important at all. Who the fuck cares? No one plays on cart because it takes too long and there's a 20 minute timer that makes Singles impossible to play. Should we slow down the animations to be cart accurate too? And include that stupid ass timer?
I am not reading a single post in this weird, tangential debate that has hardly anything to do with the current metagame. I advise we all move on.
There is no longer a 20 minute timer, it's been extended to a max of 1 hour
The way I see it, Sleep Clause is being argued about less so because people think it's outright awful and more so because the way it exists currently presents a horribly contradictory take on (what I personally consider to be) one of the core tentants of competitive Singles on Smogon-that being cart accurate play from the convenience of an online simulator-by literally breaking it's rules outright, and, on top of that, changes to other controversial elements are being dissuaded on the same exact line of thinking it compromises almost entirely free of scrutiny.
Also, Evasion has always been a middling to bad gimmick in VGC. An OHKO move was considered viable on a singular Pokemon for all of one tournament this gen before people took it for the shitty meme it was and stopped bothering by the next, too. Saying to go to VGC to "play a worse meta with uncompetitive bullshit" like that stuff just strikes me as a wholly ignorant write-off of the format at large tbh.
Okay. That changes nothing about my actual argument. Showdown already has elements that are cart inaccurate (i.e. not being slow as molasses, not having a constantly ticking timer that does nothing but make the game worse), should those be changed to be accurate to the cart too?
I just don't see how cart accuracy matters in cases like this. OU is, for 99% of interactions, perfectly cart accurate. Why does this one, somewhat niche interaction matter? No one plays on cart and the situations where Sleep Clause being a mod matters pretty much come down to Sneasler and accidentally clicking Spore/Yawn.
This is irrelevant to whether or not they are uncompetitive, which is an objective truth that really isn't up for debate. I don't know why VGC fans are so defensive about acknowledging their metagame has objectively uncompetitive elements to it despite those elements not being completely metagame ruining. Anyways, as Finch said, this isn't really the place to be discussing this as it isn't relevant to our metagame at all.
And that 1% of interactions can create literal win/loss scenarios based on game states that're 100% non-replicable on the literal basis for the entire format (aka the actual goddamn game), and with how many games are played on Showdown daily I'd imagine that 1% ends up rearing it's ugly head far more often than you'd think either way
Which, you know, isn't THAT big of a deal, as long as we don't start pretending that cart accuracy is some immutable pillar of the simulator and say that we can't do this or that because it "takes us farther away from it" with some lame slippery slope nonsense peppered in. Sleep Clause as it exists now is pretty good, all the things considered, and I for sure wouldn't want to play OU without it.
Less so denying that they're uncompetitive and more so pushing back against the idea that someone who feels they want to use them should go into it expecting them to be effective or worthwhile to build around (and your loaded language certainly didn't help in that regard).
But yeah, I'll just cut it here. I would've done so at the previous post but I was in the middle of typing it when Finch posted so I didn't realize he wanted us to knock it off
that one wasn't even condescending, it was a genuine question and i was trying to de-escalate. is it not subjective what a given person considers valuable to a competitive game? isn't that part of the reason why "competitive value" doesn't factor into tiering policy?
everyone who's arguing against sleep clause is arguing for sleep moves clause to replace it. no one here is seriously asking for unclaused sleep. for the record, i believe sleep clause is fine as it is—banning an entire status condition would be going too far, the precedent is sound, there's no pressing reason to change it (dire claw is not a pressing reason—or even a particularly good move, for that matter, i run gunk shot these days), and cart play is fucking garbage anyway. at least i can play showdown without having to worry about it randomly crashing mid-battle
this is the last thing i'll say on this topic. no more of this sleep clause/freeze/rng/unpredictability nonsense. let's get back to talking about real things that affect real matches instead of imaginary cartridge play and pretending focus band exists
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I envy the idyllic utopian society in the alternate universe this was posted from.
Alright, let's get this board back on track, since I unfortunately helped derail it to begin with. What are everyone's thoughts on this mini lead metagame that's been growing since the DLC started? Rimbombee-Samurott-Glimmora are all kinda in this arms race to fit stuff into their sets that stops one another from opening up with their hazards as easily. I've even seen Samurott start running AV and Encore as a much more regular thing now.
Guys I've slept for three hours only, sleep clause dictates that reading an argument about sleep clause this early in this state is not a good idea.
Fr discuss all you want but 1. the people in charge don't want to change this and 2. you're knocking on the wrong door regarding this.
To get back on track I pose the following question to redirect discourse: who do you think will be dropping and rising at the end of the month? Have you been surprised by seeing or not seeing much of a certain mon?
For me even though I'm low ladder I'm astounded at the lack of H-Samu's presence ever since Gliscor arrived. Also will miss Empoleon once it inevitably falls.
Fr discuss all you want but 1. the people in charge don't want to change this and 2. you're knocking on the wrong door regarding this.
To get back on track I pose the following question to redirect discourse: who do you think will be dropping and rising at the end of the month? Have you been surprised by seeing or not seeing much of a certain mon?
For me even though I'm low ladder I'm astounded at the lack of H-Samu's presence ever since Gliscor arrived. Also will miss Empoleon once it inevitably falls.
Trying to take a word from what Finch said (please guys, you're running in circles.)
Sinistcha-Masterpiece @ Grassy Seed
Ability: Heatproof
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Matcha Gotcha
- Strength Sap
- Calm Mind
- Shadow Ball
Someone in the OU room (was it a moderator? maybe) was posting ladder battles and this foul asf set showed up.
+1 Def Sinistcha with max def investment can tank just about anything physically and hit them with a Strength Sap, and Matcha Gotcha means that almost everything will regret existing. Tusk has to get it Terrain off the field before Sinistcha gets in, Poltergeist mons straight up just lose the video game, Cinderace can do approximately nothing, it's fucking hilarious.
252 Atk Protosynthesis Great Tusk Headlong Rush vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ Def Tera Steel Sinistcha: 236-282 (68.2 - 81.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ Def Heatproof Tera Steel Sinistcha: 84-102 (24.2 - 29.4%) -- 99.4% chance to 4HKO
+6 252 Atk+ Ceruledge Poltergeist vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tera Steel Sinistcha: 0-0 (0 - 0%) -- possibly the worst move ever
+1 252 Atk Protosynthesis Roaring Moon Earthquake vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ Def Tera Steel Sinistcha: 206-244 (59.5 - 70.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (lol)
Once the ball gets rolling, Sinistcha becomes the most threatening pokemon with only 2 weaknesses after Tera, both of which are almost only seen as physical moves (unless they're a coverage option, like on Enamorous, which can still be stopped by Calm Mind boosts) It's great! I like it a lot and it's a nice matchup check to slow teams that rely on Tusk/Cinderace to handle steel types.
No idea what'd pair well with this, but anything that can give better defensive situations for Sinistcha is nice. Might try experimenting with Dual Screens or Veil.
well its nice until you get confused by hurricane outside of rain then hit yourself twice in a row then it sucks
Sinistcha-Masterpiece @ Grassy Seed
Ability: Heatproof
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Matcha Gotcha
- Strength Sap
- Calm Mind
- Shadow Ball
Someone in the OU room (was it a moderator? maybe) was posting ladder battles and this foul asf set showed up.
+1 Def Sinistcha with max def investment can tank just about anything physically and hit them with a Strength Sap, and Matcha Gotcha means that almost everything will regret existing. Tusk has to get it Terrain off the field before Sinistcha gets in, Poltergeist mons straight up just lose the video game, Cinderace can do approximately nothing, it's fucking hilarious.
252 Atk Protosynthesis Great Tusk Headlong Rush vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ Def Tera Steel Sinistcha: 236-282 (68.2 - 81.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ Def Heatproof Tera Steel Sinistcha: 84-102 (24.2 - 29.4%) -- 99.4% chance to 4HKO
+6 252 Atk+ Ceruledge Poltergeist vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tera Steel Sinistcha: 0-0 (0 - 0%) -- possibly the worst move ever
+1 252 Atk Protosynthesis Roaring Moon Earthquake vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ Def Tera Steel Sinistcha: 206-244 (59.5 - 70.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (lol)
Once the ball gets rolling, Sinistcha becomes the most threatening pokemon with only 2 weaknesses after Tera, both of which are almost only seen as physical moves (unless they're a coverage option, like on Enamorous, which can still be stopped by Calm Mind boosts) It's great! I like it a lot and it's a nice matchup check to slow teams that rely on Tusk/Cinderace to handle steel types.
No idea what'd pair well with this, but anything that can give better defensive situations for Sinistcha is nice. Might try experimenting with Dual Screens or Veil.
well its nice until you get confused by hurricane outside of rain then hit yourself twice in a row then it sucks
Perhaps Garg and Meowscarada. Though Garganacl is kind of a Tera sink (I believe it was a topic of discussion in the VR), it is still a hell of a progress maker by easily putting other mons on a timer, and a good wincon if you remove some key threats. My theory is that people don't use it much because it is boring, which I agree.
Meowscarada is just... good. Its Protean Band sets are dope, not only do they hit hard enough, they're fast. The cat both outspeeds and murders Ogerpon and pre-DD RM through a u-turn without commiting in case they tera. Flower Trick forces Manaphy out and stab Knock-Off forces progress very well, both on the item removal AND damage end of things. It's as if Scizor and Weavile had a grass-type magician child.
The issue with H-Samu is - AFAIK - if you're looking for a spikes setter, Gliscor does its thing while still applying stupid-high pressure throughout a game. Dealing damage WHILE setting spikes should be big, but then you get immediately hit by toxic and then outlived. Short-lifespan leads are not bad per se (Glimmora in this gen, my man-dog Smeargle refusing to completely disappear in every other gen lmao), but Gliscor just... does it better I think (in a vacuum, at least).
I agree that Empoleon will go down a tier but that doesn't mean it won't be usable. Walking Wake is a bastard, and Empoleon will appear every now and then to check it for sure.
Reading back on this thread I’m honestly surprised that no one has tried to do raise the idea of a vote of no confidence on the OU Council with how much policy arguments that’s been going on (For the record, I do not condone this).
I’ll be frank I don’t have much horse in this race being more interested in CAP but the metagame discussion here has become more back and forth arguments about things other than the metagame.
On the hazard setters thing, right now it’s really an odd arms race between a bee, a flying scorpion and a rock-flower thing. H-Wott has the advantage of not being blocked by Taunt but Gliscor does more things in a team than just set up spikes.
I’ll be frank I don’t have much horse in this race being more interested in CAP but the metagame discussion here has become more back and forth arguments about things other than the metagame.
On the hazard setters thing, right now it’s really an odd arms race between a bee, a flying scorpion and a rock-flower thing. H-Wott has the advantage of not being blocked by Taunt but Gliscor does more things in a team than just set up spikes.
I mean, I don’t blame people for wanting to discuss anything other than the Gen 9 metagame tbh.
Ong Gen 9 OU discussions lately have been pretty meaningless lately. We are just arguing over what should be banned and whatnot without any real meaningful development. Or debating sleep clause for some reason, and the occasional shitpost. The icing on the cake is how toxic everything has gotten. I don't think there is much reason to check the forums until the Moon suspect is over.
We talkin about sleep clause while Gliscor is ruining this tier
It's not Gliscor that's a problem. Glisc is fine.
Gholdengo is more of a problem in the meta than Glisc, warping the Hazard removal/control game to revolve pretty much around 3 Pokemon: Itself, Cinderace and Great Tusk. If we removed Gholdengo, we get a more open format on the Hazard Meta. With limited control option, some people are just dropping control, making webs and hazard stack teams all that more potent.
And on the limited hazard control side, the format is basically either very offensive or hard stall. The middle ground ends up dying out to the 2 extremes. On the offensive side, some don't have room for control, so just take it and hope to break the opponent. On the stall side, it's called HDB. Defog on stall is rarer these days. If the format calmed down on the offense side a bit, then it would be fine. Kingambit is just ridiculous now, and it's getting to be a joke, Valiant just being the best revenge killer of all time is choking up teams, water Ogerpon as near no reliable switch ins on the SD set. The aforementioned Gholdengo... The list goes on. The format is in a dire state, and the more offensive side of the meta needs reeling in big time.
Time for me to talk about the survey results.
So everything barring Sneasler is like... a 3 in terms of how healthy they are for the metagame. I can promise you 100% Sneasler is only this low because Gholdengo is flat out immune to Dire Claw, and Gliscor is immune to the status inflictions it can cause as well as resists Dire Claw. Even if it's technically not, it's immune to poison as a status infliction, and heals from it, which just so happens to be the most common effect Sneasler can have. Although even without the top dogs being immune to Dire Claw, I don't think the RNG machine that is Dire Claw is any useful at this point.
As I mentioned in my rant about how this forum was acting, everyone is leaning towards banning Gholdengo OR Gliscor, and the arguments are there for both of them. For one, Gholdengo wasn't as powerful or even powerful at all before Gliscor spawned in. And on the other hand, Gliscor is something that causes every single tiering issue with some of the OU Titans of DPP and BW dropping (and in the case of Landorus Therian, almost dropping) to UU. Gliscor is the VERY CLEAR ISSUE here imo because it came in and partnered with Gholdengo to make everyone miserable. But like... idk man. I kinda wanna keep it. Not because I like it no I actually hate this bastard. But one of its sets just shits on stall teams, and the other is universal team support with a very minor case of 4MSS. The banning of Gliscor is just another thing that can't beat stall removed. While that is strictly the Swords Dance variant, it's the hazard utility one that's the big problem here.
Roaring Moon I feel has always had potential. All of my RMTs (or at least 2) had used Roaring Moon before, and that's because it's a good Dragon Dance sweeper. It was never over the top broken because it's STAB was a wee bit underwhelming at times -- having to use Crunch or the all or nothing Jaw Lock. Because of this, I usually opted for an all or nothing Jaw Lock + Earthquake+ Dragon Dance + Roost set. Now with a newfound access to Knock Off, this thing is legit kind of a problem. It's not the fact that it's still broken. Knock Off just turns it from a nuke to a risk less bonkers because any sort of defensive item you have is gone. And because Dragon Dance is a Choice Scarf and Band boost in a single turn, you're gonna struggle to take it down at even +1 -- let aline +2 or beyond. And let's not even forget the Booster Attack it gets as a physical moves Life Orb boost that can't be negated by Unaware -- so something like Clodsire also can't beat it (it never could seeing as it's weak to Earthquake which Roaring Moon often carries). As for dondozo? Well you decide if a non Curse no Leftovers Dondozo can do anything against Roaring Moon. And even if it can beat it, Knock Off means it isn't lasting too long outside of maybe a lucky Rest.
Kingambit being a 3 is just ironic. Everyone and their mother knows Kingambit is broken. Just the thought of facing a Roaring Moon with Aurora Veil and a Kingambit in the back makes me quiver in fear. I don't need to explain any further about the absurdity that is Kingambit.
Manaphy. I mean, Take Heart is a status healing Calm Mind. It has Acid Armor. It has Stored Power. It can go all out offensive with Tail Glow. I know it's an obvious threat but like... the other metagame things overshadow it and cloud my judgement as to the strength Manaphy actually has. But I'm sure after the Roaring Moon suspect and the Gliscor vs Gholdengo debate is over, Manaphy is going to follow suite.
Ogerpon-Wellspring, more commonly known as Waterpon, is also pretty powerful. Would I call it overpowered? At times it can feel like that sure. But for one, it threatens Gliscor. And it can threaten everything with Knock Off. And it outspeeds Alolan Ninetales' Aurora Veil and can Encore it into the move. Other utility includes things like U-Turn and Taunt and maybe Spiky Shield if you're feeling lucky. A Swords Dance variant of this could also be good as it obviously has Ivy Cudgel crits and Power Whip as strong secondary STAB. Not sure exactly why people think it's a bit powerful l but I think that's just me using the more utility oriented version rather than some brute force Swords Dance set.Other things I want to mention...
Iron Valiant is and always has been a pokemon that didn't need tera most of the time. Although Roaring Moon naturally outspeeds it, Iron Valiant is still almost as fast as a max speed timid Regieleki. And we all know how that thing ended up. Now of course, Valiant is no where close to Regieleki -- lacking Rapid Spin or Volt Switch utility or the devastating power of Thunderbolt. But it has a lot going for it. Hella coverage, the option to go physical or special, Choice Scarf or Specs. Honestly it's crazy how much variety the non special offensive sets have. That might be the most common, but I can still see a Calm Mind set being good with maybe a Psyshock instead of Psychic for the stall matchup. We may want to look into this thing after the bigger fish have been fried.
Suppose everything is handled. Let's also say Iron Valiant is also banned in the future. Oh. Oh that's not good is it now? With the newfound Utility of Scald (for some reason, although if it does have Hydro Steam which is very similar), Knock Off, and Flip Turn, it's bread and butter Choice Specs Protosynthesis Speed set can be morphed into something else entirely. If I'm being completely honest, Iron Valiant and Roaring Moon are kinda the only things stopping it by way of their own Booster Energy Speed set outspeeding and OHKOing it. If all goes well, Iron Valiant stays and we won't suffer the wrath of Walking Wake. If all goes wrong, this thing is getting banned probably. Not like it's a tera hog so that's not the issue here. But the idea of it only makes it more threatening.
Ok. It's not even the DLC 2 drop yet, and Aurora Veil has proven problematic. Aurora Veil makes things like Baxcalibur over the edge broken (although the DLC addition of Scale Shot is also a big one), and there was a Pre-DLC 1 time point where Light Clay was heavily considered to be broken. And honestly it still is. After the Roaring Moon and whatever follows after it, I think Aurora Veil needs a closer look. The amount of things that benefit from the moves presence cannot be overstated.
Ribombee is the only viable user of Sticky Web we have at the moment. That being said... it's a sorta issue. Well to say it's bad is to say Mega Rayquaza is ZU. Webs are OBVIOUSLY good, and the new mechanics change of activating before Booster Energy is something that can help with the Roaring Moon Iron Valiant and Walking Wakes of this tier. But on the other hand, a powerful offensive threat becomes more capable of sweeping teams. Ribombee also threatens the #1 spinner Great Tusk with Moonblast, has Psychic for Glimmora, and can U-Turn out of say... a lead Torkoal. It can also be used as a sorta threat with a Quiver Dance -- now outspeeding Roaring Moon and Valiant and threatening an actually kinda powerful Moonblast all things considered.I'm sure all of this as been said hundreds of times and simply writing this out makes my brain melt from cringe and repetition. Honestly this feels like a copypasta's worth of "Ban Gholdengo. Ban Gliscor. Ban Roaring Moon. Ban Kingambit. Solve this problem. Solve that problem" and so on. But I did have to get this out there so yea. Better late than never ig
You've got a point, my man. Personally, I'm thinking we kick sleep to the curb. The current OU scene is just chaotic – non-stop broken sweepers, hazards everywhere, and good luck finding any solid defense. Tera's in the mix, making things wild. Honestly, who's got the time to bother with this Gen outside of the council? It's a whole mood.
obviously with alolan ninetails everywhere we've seen all manner of setup sweepers try their luck. Garg will be making a comeback to OU as a serious abuser of veil with curse. Iron defense used to be the better set as it got the ball rolling quickly and you could heal off damage but its no longer necessary, which allows you to fight back against ghost types with sub.
@ Leftovers
Ability: Purifying Salt
Tera Type: Water/fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 136 Def / 120 SpD
Impish Nature
- Curse
- Salt Cure
- Recover
- Body Press
252+ Atk Choice Band Rillaboom Wood Hammer vs. +1 252 HP / 136+ Def Garganacl in Grassy Terrain with an ally's Aurora Veil: 178-210 (44 - 51.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery and Grassy Terrain recovery
choice band rillaboom will literally kill itself with recoil before it kills you. "but it will tera grass" you say. okay just tera garg/ swap to moltres
+2 252+ Atk Kingambit Iron Head vs. +1 252 HP / 136+ Def Garganacl with an ally's Aurora Veil: 129-153 (31.9 - 37.8%) -- 0.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
the only issue garg faces from being a broken setup sweeper is ivy cudgels high crit chance which will OHKO you if you remain a rock type. do watch out for that. and be aware of encore users.
@ Leftovers Ability: Purifying Salt
Tera Type: Water/fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 136 Def / 120 SpD
Impish Nature
- Curse
- Salt Cure
- Recover
- Body Press
252+ Atk Choice Band Rillaboom Wood Hammer vs. +1 252 HP / 136+ Def Garganacl in Grassy Terrain with an ally's Aurora Veil: 178-210 (44 - 51.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery and Grassy Terrain recovery
choice band rillaboom will literally kill itself with recoil before it kills you. "but it will tera grass" you say. okay just tera garg/ swap to moltres
+2 252+ Atk Kingambit Iron Head vs. +1 252 HP / 136+ Def Garganacl with an ally's Aurora Veil: 129-153 (31.9 - 37.8%) -- 0.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
the only issue garg faces from being a broken setup sweeper is ivy cudgels high crit chance which will OHKO you if you remain a rock type. do watch out for that. and be aware of encore users.
Whoa. 7 pages of tangentially-related debate on core pokemon mechanics and showdown implementation that includes several posts of DaddyBuzzwole attempting to be serious? For me?!? This forum really is the gift that keeps on giving. I'm just sad I didn't get here in time to participate.
Have you considered Tera Flying as an alternative for this set? The way I see it, it kinda compresses a lot of things you want to do. It's no longer weak to MIR/Iron Head, grass moves from Boom (and breloom please guys breloom is viable please!!!!!), ground moves from Gliscor/Tusk, and we don't really have a lot of good ice or rock moves that can threaten it, especially behind veil. It gives it a nasty weakness to rocks, but in exchange you gain an immunity to spikes, probably the more prevalent hazard, and you're not probably switching this back in after its tera'd anyway. It just feels like on a veil team you want a Tera with less weaknesses rather than more resistances that fairy/water give you, and this seems the best as a jack-of-all-trades.obviously with alolan ninetails everywhere we've seen all manner of setup sweepers try their luck. Garg will be making a comeback to OU as a serious abuser of veil with curse. Iron defense used to be the better set as it got the ball rolling quickly and you could heal off damage but its no longer necessary, which allows you to fight back against ghost types with sub.
Ability: Purifying Salt
Tera Type: Water/fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 136 Def / 120 SpD
Impish Nature
- Curse
- Salt Cure
- Recover
- Body Press
252+ Atk Choice Band Rillaboom Wood Hammer vs. +1 252 HP / 136+ Def Garganacl in Grassy Terrain with an ally's Aurora Veil: 178-210 (44 - 51.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery and Grassy Terrain recovery
choice band rillaboom will literally kill itself with recoil before it kills you. "but it will tera grass" you say. okay just tera garg/ swap to moltres
+2 252+ Atk Kingambit Iron Head vs. +1 252 HP / 136+ Def Garganacl with an ally's Aurora Veil: 129-153 (31.9 - 37.8%) -- 0.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
the only issue garg faces from being a broken setup sweeper is ivy cudgels high crit chance which will OHKO you if you remain a rock type. do watch out for that. and be aware of encore users.
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