My favourite non-binary mon has to be deleted from OU if that's the case
-
The moderators of this forum are Finchinator, Ruft, ausma, 658Greninja, kd458, FayaWizard, Shaymin Skyand TPP.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v3
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
- Status
My favourite non-binary mon has to be deleted from OU if that's the case
Its a good way for snealser to check the broken new dlc mon skeledirge, clearly youre a grassy terrain advocate
Bruv you guys above 1800 playing with 42% Kingambit usage?! What is that? Gambit is only balanced if not that many ppl use it now I get why you want it gone
Skeledirge has 4.8% usage in 1825+ ladder, it might rise or not since we don’t know about 1695+ ladder
Ceruledge potentially coming back to OU wasn't on my bingo card this month...
4.54% is funny as fuck tho.
4.54% is funny as fuck tho.
Sneasler, Gliscor, and Ghold all are additional examples that abuse tera extremely well. However, I think that Tera breaking individual pokemon isn't really the problem as much as a metagame-wide impact on checks. It's something I wrote a recent post about in regards to Gliscor; checking things is really SO MUCH HARDER because of Tera. Because, you can't rely on a typing advantage anymore you can't rely on your Tusk to check Kingambit very well because Kingambit has the option to turn into a fairy or sprout wings and simply set up on it. This, combined with STAB Tera users using nuclear attacks (Rillaboom, Valiant, Wake) and the generally increased power level, is the reason we've seen the "death of balance" this generation, as they simply can't rely on soft checks to "play around" the assault without being fully defensive and turn into a stall or at best, semi-stall team. This has led to an increase of "universal counterplay"- Encore, TrickBarb, Status, and most importantly, hazards. These all take effect mostly regardless of typing (or require extremely specific Teras to beat like fire for burn), giving you a consistent way to force progress. This is also why Gliscor is so good even in the "death of balance"- it is immune to a lot of this counterplay, while also packing ALL of the utility; ironically contributing to the problem.
Isn’t ceruledge a bit gimmicky though? It either use specially defensive bulk up with flash fire or weak armor focus sash/endure, if it returns that will be quite the shocker, not the biggest one of the tier changes though
Ceruledge is pretty reliable at what it's job is, it's probably one of the best checks to Iron Moth overall, as well as dealing well against Valiant stabs. It's obviously more offensively inclined, I'd only really recommend it on webs or Veil teams, but it's a fairly nice pick. Bitter Blade / Shadow Sneak / Poltergeist is really all it needs.
It's biggest issue before of not having a strong Ghost STAB over 70BP got fixed when it got Poltergeist, so it's actually pretty good now.
And no Garg means it doesn't need Close Combat anymore, so it can run Shadow Sneak too.
Icy Fang Gilscor is something I was toying around with when I wanted to be sadistic as a joke. But it actually felt super good, especially in Gil mirror matches. Even breaking out the rare psycho tera ice with it to absolutely smash select threats felt weirdly good. Fire fang was equally funny.
Thing is though that Garganacl is on the rise too, so it’s kind of a see-saw with those two.
It’s still garchover
At least Lando’s still here
At least Lando’s still here
Tera was a really big reason why Bursa was banned. As its Scrappy Normal+Ground coverage was unresisted by any single tera type, there was very little reactive tera counterplay at your disposal, but on the other hand, it used Tera Poison in particular to patch up its fighting weakness and get a Toxic immunity to destroy so many teams. It patched up the ground weakness with its massive defense+grassy seed, strong earth power users are rare, and strong psychic type attackers are rare too. Without Tera Poison, it's much easier to handle with Toxic, ID+Body Press Corv, and in general offensive pressure, as Normal/Ground is a typing with not many great resists and more common+exploitable weaknesses like water, grass, and fighting.
I won't go so far as to say it was a pure tera ban like volcarona/regieleki/espathra, but I think tera played a BIG role in getting it banned, roughly similar to annihilape.
ty
Looking at the numbers says some interesting things about when people have been actually playing. Somehow, Ursaluna-Bloodmoon got almost double the usage in 1 week of being legal this month than Amoonguss did in the whole month. The meta trends from the past few weeks (i.e. the rise of Gliscor balance structures) doesn't seem to be represented much in these usage stats.
Garganacl is on the rise, not OU yet.
Last edited:
landorus-therian barely survives OU once more?? on one hand fuck gliscor on the other hand LANDOBROS WE ARE STILL IN THIS.
nope, it is OU! whether or not itll stay good for the rest of the generation is unknown, but as of now its here in OU and i doubt itll be leaving until next DLC. turns ceruledge really ate good w/ getting poltergeist this DLC. its a shame it couldnt be bothered to share with basculegion but oh well
unless you were talking about garganacl (something that literally just dawned on me right now) in which case it can still run close combat to swiftly deal with it. but the time will come once garganacl makes its return
nope, it is OU! whether or not itll stay good for the rest of the generation is unknown, but as of now its here in OU and i doubt itll be leaving until next DLC. turns ceruledge really ate good w/ getting poltergeist this DLC. its a shame it couldnt be bothered to share with basculegion but oh well
unless you were talking about garganacl (something that literally just dawned on me right now) in which case it can still run close combat to swiftly deal with it. but the time will come once garganacl makes its return
Last edited:
It'll definitely get pushed out once DLC2 comes out. It's the natural progression.
Garg is genuinely busted thanks to Tera. Once we get that out of the way it can go down to RU where it belongs. Expect Garg to get even worse once Gliscor, string cheese man, and busted Ogerpon-W get banned.
If Gliscor gets banned and it gets Defog (which is possible given the DLC1 TMs) it might go back up to top 10 at least
We're so back
Noteworthy Usage Rises from September to October:
(Usage rates are rounded to the nearest digit after two decimal points)
-
(#4, 23.28% -> #3, 27.88%)
Overtaking third place from Iron Valiant, the post-bloodmoon metagame has seen the extreme rise in Sticky Webs and Hazard Stack, which allows Gholdengo to thrive. It's back to running it's old Air Balloon set a lot of the time, to truly continue the mindgames against Great Tusk as well as afford it a spikes and webs immunity itself. A lot of discussion has been surrounding it recently...
-
(#7, 20.61% -> #5, 23.26%)
Overtaking Ogerpon's defacto 5th place (due to Ursaluna getting axed), moth usage has gone up tremendously, and it's not hard to see why. Rillaboom usage has gone up through the roof, and Moth has proven to be one of the best offensive checks to it, due to quad resisting glide and wood hammer, resisting U-turn, as well as not taking the additional Knock Off damage due to Booster dissapearing. It's also appreciated the rise in webs, allowing it to sometimes run SPA booster, giving it an easier time breaking through bulky teams.
-
(#8, 17.77% -> #6, 20.53%)
Mister suspect himself, Gliscor usage and viability has risen tremendously, Hazard stack is more popular than ever, as well as the usage of boots. Gliscor is an incredible presence in this metagame, due to being a potent knock absorber as well as it's natural immunity to spikes due to the flying type. It sits for days on most mons and abuses Toxic incredibly well in conjunction with Spikes and EQ.
-
(#22, 8.09% -> #12, 15.03%)
A huge rise from the monkey itself, the nerf in Grassy Glide BP doesn't seem to have hit it too hard. It still most commonly runs Choice Band to great effect, having a potent priority move, a crazy powerful 120bp stab option in wood hammer, as well as Knock and U-turn. Another reason for it's meteoric rise is the support it offers to the team... in particular to this following member:
-
(#20, 9.15% -> #14. 13.39%)
This thing greatly appreciates Rillaboom, it's never been so easy to activate it's Unburden. It's still doing mostly the same thing it's always been doing, often abusing Tera to gain stab on Acrobatics or to gain extra power on Night Slashes with Tera Dark.
-
(#34, 4.92% -> #18, 9.442%)
Surprisingly, the most notable rankings jump from all the pokemon. Gking has cemented itself as the pivot of choice on a lot of BO's thanks to Heavy-Duty Boots allowing it to come in on hazard stack, as well as having access to Future Sight, Ice Beam and Sludge Bomb, great coverage options. The drop of both Ursaluna Bloodmoon and Roaring Moon greatly improve it's viability.
-
(#38, 4.47% -> #29, 6.79%)
HEATRAN STOCKS TO THE MOON, after being sent to UU, Heatran has come back with a vengeance. It's still proving to be a great spdef pokemon, especially with the combination of Magma Storm and Tera, if Heatran wishes to after it's trapped a water type, it can decide to remove it outright most of the time, given it's down to lose a lot of HP / get sacked. Additionally, there's been a few instances of it running Air Balloon, to abuse non Knock Gliscor as well as having a temporary spikes immunity.
Anyway that's most of them, pretty interesting changes!
Noteworthy Usage Rises from September to October:
(Usage rates are rounded to the nearest digit after two decimal points)
-
(#4, 23.28% -> #3, 27.88%) Overtaking third place from Iron Valiant, the post-bloodmoon metagame has seen the extreme rise in Sticky Webs and Hazard Stack, which allows Gholdengo to thrive. It's back to running it's old Air Balloon set a lot of the time, to truly continue the mindgames against Great Tusk as well as afford it a spikes and webs immunity itself. A lot of discussion has been surrounding it recently...
-
(#7, 20.61% -> #5, 23.26%)Overtaking Ogerpon's defacto 5th place (due to Ursaluna getting axed), moth usage has gone up tremendously, and it's not hard to see why. Rillaboom usage has gone up through the roof, and Moth has proven to be one of the best offensive checks to it, due to quad resisting glide and wood hammer, resisting U-turn, as well as not taking the additional Knock Off damage due to Booster dissapearing. It's also appreciated the rise in webs, allowing it to sometimes run SPA booster, giving it an easier time breaking through bulky teams.
-
(#8, 17.77% -> #6, 20.53%)Mister suspect himself, Gliscor usage and viability has risen tremendously, Hazard stack is more popular than ever, as well as the usage of boots. Gliscor is an incredible presence in this metagame, due to being a potent knock absorber as well as it's natural immunity to spikes due to the flying type. It sits for days on most mons and abuses Toxic incredibly well in conjunction with Spikes and EQ.
-
(#22, 8.09% -> #12, 15.03%)A huge rise from the monkey itself, the nerf in Grassy Glide BP doesn't seem to have hit it too hard. It still most commonly runs Choice Band to great effect, having a potent priority move, a crazy powerful 120bp stab option in wood hammer, as well as Knock and U-turn. Another reason for it's meteoric rise is the support it offers to the team... in particular to this following member:
-
(#20, 9.15% -> #14. 13.39%)This thing greatly appreciates Rillaboom, it's never been so easy to activate it's Unburden. It's still doing mostly the same thing it's always been doing, often abusing Tera to gain stab on Acrobatics or to gain extra power on Night Slashes with Tera Dark.
-
(#34, 4.92% -> #18, 9.442%)Surprisingly, the most notable rankings jump from all the pokemon. Gking has cemented itself as the pivot of choice on a lot of BO's thanks to Heavy-Duty Boots allowing it to come in on hazard stack, as well as having access to Future Sight, Ice Beam and Sludge Bomb, great coverage options. The drop of both Ursaluna Bloodmoon and Roaring Moon greatly improve it's viability.
-
(#38, 4.47% -> #29, 6.79%)HEATRAN STOCKS TO THE MOON, after being sent to UU, Heatran has come back with a vengeance. It's still proving to be a great spdef pokemon, especially with the combination of Magma Storm and Tera, if Heatran wishes to after it's trapped a water type, it can decide to remove it outright most of the time, given it's down to lose a lot of HP / get sacked. Additionally, there's been a few instances of it running Air Balloon, to abuse non Knock Gliscor as well as having a temporary spikes immunity.
Anyway that's most of them, pretty interesting changes!
if DLC2 brings back the defog TM (or if it finally regains knock off for whatever reason) then landorus is here to stay, with or without gliscor. with gliscor banned its probably also staying if people adapt quickly to its ban and start running bulky lando-T
i feel like without tera itll be either RUBL or UU by usage. i think garganacl by itself has too many good traits to be dragged so far down by its rock typing so i cant see it being RU. also can it not beat all three of those pokemon w/ the right tera type? if you run tera water for gholdengo or a different tera for ogerpon-W then you can choose which one you can sit on and chip w/ salt cure, unless gholdengo is running covert cloak
I meant Garganacl is on the rise, should’ve clarified that lol
- Status