Honestly this was a great survey to do. I do think there’s a lot of validity to dropping mons, especially with how the metagame has grown.
Before I go deeper, I just wanna talk about my stance on unbans. Personally, I’d prefer we do them and do them now. The only other time we could really weigh doing them imo is after the Tera test, and even then that’s super dependent on the result. Dropping now is the most organic way to slip some of these mons into the tier if they have a shot of saying long term.
I’d also like to mention that just because I want an unban doesn’t mean that I think it would be completely fine or not broken. If we unbanned something and quick banned it, I would be just as happy as if it stayed in the tier. For me, it serves as a nice piece of data for future use in tiering and makes future discussion on drops a lot more measured.
I gave Ape a 3. I wanna stress that these tiering choices were separating my personal feelings on the mon and its playstyle. I think Ape is super lame and I hate the way it ends up bullying fat teams. That being said… I think it has some grounds for a retest.The meta is so much faster nowadays and far more full of hazards, both not great developments for it. While it was fine into offense, it was the balance and stall teams that Ape feasted on. If we did act harshly on Tera, it would have gotten a higher score. For now, I would say it’s worth a look but I’d be very cautious on dropping it.
2. I think Bax was debatably broken even without Veil. It just hits like a nuclear warhead and loaded dice on both its stabs make it hit hard and make it hard to revenge kill. It’s just so dumb post scale shot, and it was already dumb to begin with imo.
5. Yes, it’s centralizing and a scary mon. I think giving it parole is a good move. Gliscor would let us address the other side of the hazards issue, since there is a ton of will to kill the cheese man. But even if we don’t, I was fine with Gliscor’s effect on the tier? It centralized things a bit and helped serve as a blanket check to a lot of stuff.
1. Lando was always a monster to switch into, and not much has changed. It lost Rock Polish makes it slightly worse into offensive teams, but it still hits like a truck and has very limited defensive counterplay. If anything, the defensive counterplay is now worse with NP sets on the table.
3. I think it’s scary to switch into sure, but given the recency of its time in the tier I’m willing to be a tad more lenient on it. I feel like its hazard weakness and the way hazard setting exploded would be a blessing and especially a curse to it. Hazards suck when you can’t hold boots and are weak to rocks. It’s still scary as heck to handle defensively, but I can almost see it working in OU until it bonks me.
3 for Darkshifu. I honestly think this Gen it would be the less broken of the forms. First off, both forms imo add to the tier as fast Gambit checks and physical wall breakers. The difference is that without Rain and due to benefitting less from Punching Glove overall, Darkshifu doesn’t hit as nuclear hard even with SD. It still hits hard, but I’m down for letting it come back. Even if it is just to see if it truly would be as broken as it was last Gen.
Rapid Strike though is getting a 2 from me. It’s just so constraining defensively compared to Darkshifu. At least Darkshifu has Tera Fairy as a potential answer. Rapid Strike is kinda in a position where all it needs is SD Surging Strikes and CC to melt the tier. I honestly think it should have been discussed more than Zam C for a ban earlier, it was that gross. I do think it would add something to the tier, but if I wanted to drop mons to check gambit (which isn’t why I’d drop mons) Rapid Strike is low on the list.
2. Banded is essentially a Banded Rillaboom with a much better defensive and offensive typing. Grass is a mediocre offensive type while Water is a very good one. It can bully most water resists hard enough anyway with either band or its bulk up set. I just am a little spooked by its banded set to give it the same leniency that I have Ape.
I gave this a 3 on the survey. I do think depending on how the soft reset and Tera goes, maybe BloodMoon isn’t the worst thing ever. My feelings on it are similar to Apes. I think that in theory, it should be worth a look on our far higher power level OU. In practice, it’s still gonna probably trade too much at worst.
I gave this a cautious 4. With Gliscor potentially back it’s a lot easier to handle Sneasler, but our new mons could be troublesome for it to be back. I’m very scared of the Tapus making it back through home or raids. Koko and Lele would be insane this gen and would undeniably break Sneasler in half. Getting other strong terrain setters beyond Rilla makes building with Sneasler even more powerful. Without those tho, it’s probably worth dropping?
5. I feel like Moon will end up being easier to manage in DLC2. I honestly think the post Blood Moon meta was the best meta we had in DLC2, and people wanted change but didn’t know what they wanted for it. I feel like Moon, while a very strong mon, was not egregiously offensive and would probably settle back into the tier if we unbanned it. If we have to rest it in 4 months sure, but I feel like it would be more manageable nowadays.
5. I’m not gonna elaborate too much. Its quick ban was a decisive move for tours and this is the ideal time to revisit Volc as an issue. Discussion on this Mon has been beaten to death.
4. I know a lot of folks call this better Zam H, but it’s more of a side grade. Its IDBP set is better, but there lies the rub: it’s only gonna be better there. Being forced to hold Rusted Shield is debilitating for its other sets. Part of what makes Zam H such a healthy presence in the tier imo is its versatility. Sure it can IDBP to punish HO, but it also can run Band or Boots to just offer offensive utility. Zam C… can’t do that as well.
I also think Zam C’s quickban jumped the gun a bit and the community jumped the gun on the survey. To me, it was a symptom of that meta, not the cause of its problems. When you have Magearna, Chien Pao, and Urshifu R invalidating Fat teams as an archetype, of course Zam C is gonna feast on the plethora of HO. If we had this in the Gliscor Moon meta, it probably wouldn’t even have been better than Zam H.
5
Darkrai discussion has been done to death. People are more or less entrenched in their positions. I’m not gonna try to win your hearts and minds with this one, but I do think being objective dropping it isn’t that bad of an idea. The worst case scenario is it’s broken. Cool we quick ban it. Now not only do we have good modern info that Darkrai is dumb, but the pro ban crowd and serve the unban crowd some humble pie. We also wouldn’t have to have a mandatory biweekly talk on Darkrai.
As I’ve said before, I’m team free him. If we ban him in a week after freeing him, I’m just as happy as if he’s A rank on the VR.
TLDR: Unban
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Not on the survey but things I think are worth discussing.
Hot take if this came back it wouldn’t even be OU by usage. It’s a good spiker but we have those, many with actual defensive synergy. Even as a lead it’s not that offensive to me in 2023 Pokémon.
I know it wasn’t on the survey, but it’s coming back and is probably gonna be a bit spooky. I think Bax comparisons are a bit unfair if it loses roost. Without roost it hits less hard and was worse physical coverage than Bax, even if Veil DD would be spooky. With Roost… we need to have a discussion since Kyurem is likely gonna do the same things it did last gen.
Nyquil Bear
? Just keep it banned. Anyways, I'll see you all soon!
around, just unban last respects. 
calcs:
while Sucker, which is priority, is an OHKO with just one fainted ally.
to counter my Ogerpon-H when I was playing OMs and it got wiped by play rough 
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