(Little) Things that annoy you in Pokémon

Hugin said:
There are a few negative priority attacks. And checking exactly how many there are left me very annoyed.
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(Note that Beak Blast sits at -3 in games where it exists).
The mechanic for Avalanche/Revenge is "If you get hit, this move is more effective". That's roughly the same as the mechanic for Shell Trap(this move only works if you get hit) and similar to Beak Blast, which hits no matter what but burns the oppt if you get hit. They should all be at -3 with Focus Punch at -4. That way Avalanche can interrupt Focus Punch, while all of the "Come on and hit me" moves are the same priority. I know this doesn't matter, since nothing uses any of those moves competitively and only rarely in-game, but there's no reason for Shell Trap to work one way and Avalanche work some other way.
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Yeah I should've clarified that obviously there are already negative priority attacks that aren't utility moves, but they all suck haha. When I said that power creep makes them irrelevant, I was actually specifically thinking of Focus Punch and how it sees a fair bit of use in Gen 3 competitive play but almost completely disappears from movesets once there are better Fighting-type attacks than Sky Uppercut and Brick Break available.

Beak Blast is interesting. It's a clear case of the devs trying to make a negative-priority attack strong enough to be worth using, but still failing. It dodges the risk of Revenge and Avalanche by being strong even when you don't get hit, but punishes the opponent on a different axis if they choose to attack. Conceptually, it's pretty cool, and in theory it's one of the only ways to reliably punish U-Turn, but it's still not enough. Ironically, it's not even very good as an in-game move, because while Toucannon is theoretically slow enough to not mind the negative priority, in practice base 60 Speed isn't that bad in Alola, so you'd probably rather use Drill Peck or Fly most of the time.
 
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Cobalt Empoleon said:
Yeah I should've clarified that obviously there are already negative priority attacks that aren't utility moves, but they all suck haha. When I said that power creep makes them irrelevant, I was actually specifically thinking of Focus Punch and how it sees a fair bit of use in Gen 3 competitive play but almost completely disappears from movesets once there are better Fighting-type attacks than Sky Uppercut and Brick Break available.

Beak Blast is interesting. It's a clear case of the devs trying to make a negative-priority attack strong enough to be worth using, but still failing. It dodges the risk of Revenge and Avalanche by being strong even when you don't get hit, but punishes the opponent for attacking on a different axis if they choose to do so. Conceptually, it's pretty cool, and in theory it's one of the only ways to reliably punish U-Turn, but it's still not enough. Ironically, it's not even very good as an in-game move, because while Toucannon is theoretically slow enough to not mind the negative priority, in practice base 60 Speed isn't that bad in Alola, so you'd probably rather use Drill Peck or Fly most of the time.
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There’s also the issue that Toucannon’s physical bulk isn’t good enough to make full use of Beak Blast, and that move isn!t strong enough to make it worth using in competitive or even in-game.

If it got Intimidate or better physical bulk, Beak Blast would see some use in-game. Toucannon feels so disappointing following the talons of Gen 6 Talonflame.
 
Magcargo said:
Gamefreak taking away Focus Punch from Palkia's moveset makes me sad. They were the ones that amputated its arms, and now they take away its ability to throw hands too. Physical fighting coverage was nice in the past on palkia for blissey for Blissey.
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I agree with you, but you might disagree with me with this here,

Gamefreaks inability and stubbornness to buff certain mons is quite upsetting and absurd

Garchomp isn't going to get Dragon Dance anytime soon based off what im seeing in Indigo Disk and probably not in Gen 10

Aerodactyl STILL somehow doesn't have Brave Bird or Head Smash???

Kyurem still doesn't learn Ice Punch??

and now they're taking away moves from Pokémon?? Barraskewda loses Flip Turn and Jolteon loses Volt Absorb??

The Metagame kinda falters to a standstill of issues when they do things like this
 
Coronis said:
No thanks. Zubat line is enough non-birds learning it for me. *Blaziken is technically a bird, even if it doesn’t look like it so much in the final evo.

With those tiny ass arms?
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I feel like you didn't read my point fully, Aerodactyl and Gyarados are FLYING types and barely have decent flying moves, Gyarados has like 2 flying type moves actually Gyarados only has ONE now cause they took away Bounce, and Aerodactyl virtually can't do anything with its ability and only has one recoil move that's not even, gamefreak really needs to read the room on the competitive aspect of the game,

why even give them the typing and yet not give them a decent movepool on their typing but give freaking Clefable things like Meteor Mash, Dual Wingbeat and Drain Punch lol, moves that are nowhere near the fullfilment of its anatomy and appearance
 
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DetectiveDaikon said:
Just a simple minded party pooper take, I don't think you even read my point fully, Aerodactyl and Gyarados are FLYING types and barely have decent flying moves, Gyarados has like 2 flying type moves actually Gyarados only has ONE now cause they took away Bounce, and Aerodactyl virtually can't do anything with its ability and only has one recoil move that's not even, gamefreak really needs to read the room on the competitive aspect of the game,

why even give them the typing and yet not give them a decent movepool on their typing but give freaking Clefable things like Meteor Mash, Dual Wingbeat and Drain Punch lol, moves that are nowhere near the fullfilment of its anatomy and appearance
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Mate, it was a joke. Take it down about 3 notches.
 
DetectiveDaikon said:
why even give them the typing and yet not give them a decent movepool on their typing but give freaking Clefable things like Meteor Mash, Dual Wingbeat and Drain Punch lol, moves that are nowhere near the fullfilment of its anatomy and appearance
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Honestly that's more of a Dual Wingbeat weirdness rather than a Clefable weirdness. For whatever reason, Game Freak decided to give Dual Wingbeat to almost every Pokemon that has wings, even ones were the wings are extremely impractical for combat like Celebi.

I'm personally fine with mons like Gyarados not having strong Flying STAB (though they should've made Bounce an egg move or something for Magikarp so it could still learn it without tutors or TMs; Bounce Gyarados was funny) and Aerodactyl not being a bird does make Brave Bird unappealing (also Head Smash on a mon that fast sounds... scary) but I do share your annoyance regarding Rock Head. It's one of the most Gen 3 abilities out there. It's been given to almost no new Pokemon past its introduction, and like half the mons that got it still don't have anything better to use it with than Double-Edge. Hell, Aerodactyl has it especially bad since it can only learn Double-Edge in Gen 3, so without transfers the best (and only) recoil move it has is Take Down. I don't want them to give Head Smash to everything with Rock Head, since that would take away from what's interesting about the mons that currently have that combo, but some variety would be nice. Besides Double-Edge and Take Down, the only non-STAB uses for Rock Head are Submission Alolawak (which requires VC transfer and seems like just a coincidence because of how hidden abiliies worked) Wild Charge Hisuian Arcanine (which seems like a holdover from regular Arcanine learning Wild Charge) and Wood Hammer Sudowoodo (I have no caviots for that one; it's very cool and clearly intentional).
 
DrPumpkinz said:
Honestly that's more of a Dual Wingbeat weirdness rather than a Clefable weirdness. For whatever reason, Game Freak decided to give Dual Wingbeat to almost every Pokemon that has wings, even ones were the wings are extremely impractical for combat like Celebi.

I'm personally fine with mons like Gyarados not having strong Flying STAB (though they should've made Bounce an egg move or something for Magikarp so it could still learn it without tutors or TMs; Bounce Gyarados was funny) and Aerodactyl not being a bird does make Brave Bird unappealing (also Head Smash on a mon that fast sounds... scary) but I do share your annoyance regarding Rock Head. It's one of the most Gen 3 abilities out there. It's been given to almost no new Pokemon past its introduction, and like half the mons that got it still don't have anything better to use it with than Double-Edge. Hell, Aerodactyl has it especially bad since it can only learn Double-Edge in Gen 3, so without transfers the best (and only) recoil move it has is Take Down. I don't want them to give Head Smash to everything with Rock Head, since that would take away from what's interesting about the mons that currently have that combo, but some variety would be nice. Besides Double-Edge and Take Down, the only non-STAB uses for Rock Head are Submission Alolawak (which requires VC transfer and seems like just a coincidence because of how hidden abiliies worked) Wild Charge Hisuian Arcanine (which seems like a holdover from regular Arcanine learning Wild Charge) and Wood Hammer Sudowoodo (I have no caviots for that one; it's very cool and clearly intentional).
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I think we can agree to disagree like a good Rivalry pun intended, I mean again many mons who don't share anatomy for said move get it anyways like you stated, and I agree Head Smash on Mega Aerodactyl definitely teeters on the borderline of Ubers, given that'll be like 230+ BP calcing it all up, its just Mega Blaziken terror again with Flare Blitz and HJK,

So my tradeoff would be Brave Bird which is less power and probably sends Normal Aero to UUBL and Mega Aerodactyl to ubers, and yes, Mr Sir Pumpkin, I did check and many mons who do have Brave Bird are "bird/avian" animal looking pokemon but Brave Bird is a move that is described with the intent of a mon that is flying and crashing at its opponent and Blaziken doesn't appear to be able to fly, meanwhile Aerodactyl is described as a pokemon that depends on its wings for everything and so its fair to give it an exemption like Zubat line to have it

In regards to your Gyarados argument I just think its comically asinine for a Pokémon to not have a fair moveset of STAB for both of its typings, introducing a move like Floatly Fall/80-100 Bp move for all Flying types should be the solution and Gyarados has suffered and fallen tiers down because of that predicament of a poor movepool
 
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DetectiveDaikon said:
I think we can agree to disagree like a good Rivalry pun intended, I mean again many mons who don't share anatomy for said move get it anyways like you stated, and I agree Head Smash on Mega Aerodactyl definitely teeters on the borderline of Ubers, given that'll be like 230+ BP calcing it all up, its just Mega Blaziken again with Flare Blitz and HJP, like when I see mons like Blaziken that technically biologically cannot fly

So my tradeoff would be Brave Bird which is less power and probably sends Normal Aero to UUBL and Mega Aerodactyl to ubers, and yes, Mr Sir Pumpkin, I did check and many mons who do have Brave Bird are "bird/avian" animal looking pokemon but Brave Bird is a move that is described with the intent of a mon that flying and crashing at its opponent and Blaziken doesn't appear to be able to fly, meanwhile Aerodactyl is described as a pokemon that depends on its wings for everything and so its fair to give it an exemption like Zubat line to have it
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It doesn't say flies it says "charges at the opponent at a low altitude".
The ground counts as low altitude.
 
DetectiveDaikon said:
I think we can agree to disagree like a good Rivalry pun intended, I mean again many mons who don't share anatomy for said move get it anyways like you stated, and I agree Head Smash on Mega Aerodactyl definitely teeters on the borderline of Ubers, given that'll be like 230+ BP calcing it all up, its just Mega Blaziken terror again with Flare Blitz and HJK,

So my tradeoff would be Brave Bird which is less power and probably sends Normal Aero to UUBL and Mega Aerodactyl to ubers, and yes, Mr Sir Pumpkin, I did check and many mons who do have Brave Bird are "bird/avian" animal looking pokemon but Brave Bird is a move that is described with the intent of a mon that is flying and crashing at its opponent and Blaziken doesn't appear to be able to fly, meanwhile Aerodactyl is described as a pokemon that depends on its wings for everything and so its fair to give it an exemption like Zubat line to have it

In regards to your Gyarados argument I just think its comically asinine for a Pokémon to not have a fair moveset of STAB for both of its typings, introducing a move like Floatly Fall/80-100 Bp move for all Flying types should be the solution and Gyarados has suffered and fallen tiers down because of that predicament of a poor movepool
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Ooh how you gonna Recover (TM) from that one DrPumpkinz
 
With regards to Aerodactyl, ignoring for a moment the viability matter for the recoil moves, I do think from a flavor stand point it SHOULDN'T get Head Smash but SHOULD get Brave Bird. For the former, flying creatures like this tend to not have the most durable bones proportionally (Birds flying into windows can snap their own necks on impact), so a recoil-inducing Head Smash seems counter-productive to the idea of the mon even with the Rock Head ability. On the other hand, Aerodactyl's Pokedex very frequently reference its vicious flight and disposition, coupled with the common understanding of Birds being evolutionary descendants of (pop-cultural at least) Dinosaurs which the Fossils clearly want to evoke with it.

Also this one's a nitpick and might not have even been a big improvement, but why is Mega Aerodactyl the only form this mon has of a contact-boosting Ability with Tough Claws? Pokedex entries as far back as RBY reference its saw-like Teeth, it naturally learns the elemental fangs, Bite, and Crunch (the former 3 being natural learnset before Gen 8 made them TMs), yet only the Mega gets the ability and it's in the form of Tough Claws, with only the anime Pokedex ever making reference to Aero's use of its talons or claws while most of its moves referencing appendages or contact-without-teeth have to be TM'd. To put the comp glasses back on this also would have been more useful to either form since the Fangs are the only major moves it considers that benefit from Tough Claws anyway, at which point it's a straight upgrade.

tl;dr Indigo Disk give regular Aerodactyl Strong Jaw or something.
 
pika pal said:
With regards to Aerodactyl, ignoring for a moment the viability matter for the recoil moves, I do think from a flavor stand point it SHOULDN'T get Head Smash but SHOULD get Brave Bird. For the former, flying creatures like this tend to not have the most durable bones proportionally (Birds flying into windows can snap their own necks on impact), so a recoil-inducing Head Smash seems counter-productive to the idea of the mon even with the Rock Head ability. On the other hand, Aerodactyl's Pokedex very frequently reference its vicious flight and disposition, coupled with the common understanding of Birds being evolutionary descendants of (pop-cultural at least) Dinosaurs which the Fossils clearly want to evoke with it.

Also this one's a nitpick and might not have even been a big improvement, but why is Mega Aerodactyl the only form this mon has of a contact-boosting Ability with Tough Claws? Pokedex entries as far back as RBY reference its saw-like Teeth, it naturally learns the elemental fangs, Bite, and Crunch (the former 3 being natural learnset before Gen 8 made them TMs), yet only the Mega gets the ability and it's in the form of Tough Claws, with only the anime Pokedex ever making reference to Aero's use of its talons or claws while most of its moves referencing appendages or contact-without-teeth have to be TM'd. To put the comp glasses back on this also would have been more useful to either form since the Fangs are the only major moves it considers that benefit from Tough Claws anyway, at which point it's a straight upgrade.

tl;dr Indigo Disk give regular Aerodactyl Strong Jaw or something.
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Aerodactyl isn’t a dinosaur either
 
Coronis said:
Aerodactyl isn’t a dinosaur either
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Very informative and well contributing response.

I said pop-cultural because while I'm no biologist or archeologist, most people will lump Pterodactyls/Pteranodons and the like in with Dinosaurs, and "big reptillian thing from *millions of years ago that we only know from Fossilized remains" is the other big dinosaur trope in fictional media.
 
pika pal said:
Very informative and well contributing response.

I said pop-cultural because while I'm no biologist or archeologist, most people will lump Pterodactyls/Pteranodons and the like in with Dinosaurs, and "big reptillian thing from Billions of years ago that we only know from Fossilized remains" is the other big dinosaur trope in fictional media.
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Old Amber is also a Jurassic Park reference and Jurassic Park is pretty much the pop cultural reference point for dinosaurs
 
pika pal said:
With regards to Aerodactyl, ignoring for a moment the viability matter for the recoil moves, I do think from a flavor stand point it SHOULDN'T get Head Smash but SHOULD get Brave Bird. For the former, flying creatures like this tend to not have the most durable bones proportionally (Birds flying into windows can snap their own necks on impact), so a recoil-inducing Head Smash seems counter-productive to the idea of the mon even with the Rock Head ability. On the other hand, Aerodactyl's Pokedex very frequently reference its vicious flight and disposition, coupled with the common understanding of Birds being evolutionary descendants of (pop-cultural at least) Dinosaurs which the Fossils clearly want to evoke with it.

Also this one's a nitpick and might not have even been a big improvement, but why is Mega Aerodactyl the only form this mon has of a contact-boosting Ability with Tough Claws? Pokedex entries as far back as RBY reference its saw-like Teeth, it naturally learns the elemental fangs, Bite, and Crunch (the former 3 being natural learnset before Gen 8 made them TMs), yet only the Mega gets the ability and it's in the form of Tough Claws, with only the anime Pokedex ever making reference to Aero's use of its talons or claws while most of its moves referencing appendages or contact-without-teeth have to be TM'd. To put the comp glasses back on this also would have been more useful to either form since the Fangs are the only major moves it considers that benefit from Tough Claws anyway, at which point it's a straight upgrade.

tl;dr Indigo Disk give regular Aerodactyl Strong Jaw or something.
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My mentality when bringing this point up is I think Aero should get both moves outright, no debate, since they're moves of its typing ANYWAYS and it can help it capitalize on his abilities both in Base and Mega and counteracting its threats I also think Aero should get U-Turn, and I never understood why it never had it in the first place but Lando T, Blaziken and Urshifu get the move,
 
oh yes the cryptid of a physical flying move is the subject again!

while i don't think brave bird should be given to aerodactyl (or really any non-bird like get it OFF the zubat line), it DOES get dual wingbeat and imo that's enough. aerodactyl isn't quite at gyarados level of not getting moves of its type and not everyone is owed a 100+ BP STAB. i do think abilities that only affect a handful of moves should be treated much like types though - if a mon has rock head, it deserves to get rock head moves. otherwise that's an empty ability slot and bad game design. just... not brave bird for aerodactyl? it definitely should get double-edge by level, and then one or two more. maybe give it a signature that is a 90-100 BP version of head smash? anything seems to be solved with a signature move or ability these days...
 
Axiemeister said:
oh yes the cryptid of a physical flying move is the subject again!

while i don't think brave bird should be given to aerodactyl (or really any non-bird like get it OFF the zubat line), it DOES get dual wingbeat and imo that's enough. aerodactyl isn't quite at gyarados level of not getting moves of its type and not everyone is owed a 100+ BP STAB. i do think abilities that only affect a handful of moves should be treated much like types though - if a mon has rock head, it deserves to get rock head moves. otherwise that's an empty ability slot and bad game design. just... not brave bird for aerodactyl? it definitely should get double-edge by level, and then one or two more. maybe give it a signature that is a 90-100 BP version of head smash? anything seems to be solved with a signature move or ability these days...
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Most of my argument for Brave Bird comes from Aerodactyl's Dex entries making it sound like an aggressive flying predator, and I'd probably advocate that even without Rock Head compared to Head Smash. I think a Signature at that point would feel a little redundant if it has the downside specifically to circumvent with the otherwise unused ability. Not without merit if it was 100 Accuracy vs Stone Edge but feels like a 3-rights-for-a-left approach to the move flavor.

Honestly I'm still stuck on the Tough Claws over Strong Jaw thing.
 
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