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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 ( NEW SURVEY UP, POST 20,700 )

Wolf-X said:
How do you already know this when its only been in the tier for a few hours?
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somehow i have the tiniest inkling that this guy knows what he's talking about and that we should probably hear him out on this one. just a hunch, you know?
Wolf-X said:
This how we make tiering policy now? We follow our dear leader? Sry I didnt get the memo
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how do you think he got to be the tier leader? you kiiiinda have to be an expert at the game, tiering policy, and game balancing to get a title like that. it's not a position you can just buy or inherit or charm your way into, these people are in charge because they know their shit, and because they do that better than most
 
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New meta means this thread is moving too damn fast for me to keep up with it, but Iron Hands is once again UUBL, so here I am, doing some spicy mid-ladder cooking with my boi.

On that note, holy crap is Iron Crown the best manual Electric Terrain setter we've had. Not that that's saying much, but I've been having a world of fun with this set:

Iron Crown @ Terrain Extender
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Electric Terrain
- Tachyon Cutter
- Future Sight
- Volt Switch

IFuture Sight -> Terrain -> Volt Switch is the ideal play and does a great job of clearing the way for whatever you're trying to bring in. Notably, with terrain up, its Volt Switch is stronger than Zapdos', and none of the tier's "Eight $%^^ing ground types" not named Ting Lu want any part of a Quark Drive boosted STAB Future Sight.

Obviously, not an ideal set on its own, but Moth, Valiant, Hands, and now Iron Boulder go hard enough in Terrain to make it maybe worthwhile? Valiant + Boulder is probably the ideal combo of abusers (insane speed control, minimal overlapping weaknesses, coverage for anything you could possibly want to hit), but I've been having an absolute blast running Electric Seed Iron Hands and Power Herb + Meteor Beam Iron Moth because why the hell not in this chaos? And if you want to really dive into things, something like Booster Energy Raging Thunder also feels potentially vicious to take maximum advantage of multipliicatives:

+1 252+ SpA Protosynthesis Tera Electric Raging Thunder Thunderclap vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Dragapult in Electric Terrain: 279-329 (88 - 103.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Truly, this is the greatest and/or dumbest generation
 
Finchinator said:
There are not close to enough checks or counters for it to remain in the tier.



Everything else deserves a fair shake and is playable for right now, but not this.
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In a few hours you already figured the meta? Wow, impressive

Ive also have been playing, testing and teambuilding stuff!! What a coincidence!

Just because you just started playing the new meta and cant handle the turtle doesnt mean its quick ban worthy.

DaddyBuzzwole said:
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somehow i have the tiniest inkling that this guy knows what he's talking about. just a hunch, you know?
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This how we make tiering policy now? We follow our dear leader? Sry I didnt get the memo
 
Wolf-X said:
In a few hours you already figured the meta? Wow, impressive

Ive also have been playing, testing and teambuilding stuff!! What a coincidence!

Just because you just started playing the new meta and cant handle the turtle doesnt mean its quick ban worthy.



This how we make tiering policy now? We follow our dear leader? Sry I didnt get the memo
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Ik this is a one liner, but post elo

edit so it's a two-liner: the fact this thing is on basically every single team I've seen says a lot
 
Wolf-X said:
Just because you just started playing the new meta and cant handle the turtle doesn't mean its quick ban worthy.
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Okay bro, this is directed not just you, but for a lot of people, I have seen a lot of you bums saying "no, x is not broken, it has so many checks" like, my brother in christ, tell me what are the checks, if you are in the right, you should be able to win the argument, so why not show them, and you can save the mon and be smart

>but think for yourself

bro we are in OU forums in smogon, nobody here fucking thinks, in fact, I'm so petty that I'm gonna actually help you out and post 1 counter

Unawere CM Clefable takes literally nothing from it and sets on turtle forver, you can even slot knock off to deny the buffed multiscale
 
I'd like to remind everyone that Terapagos has more moves than just Rock Polish, Calm Mind, Tera Starstorm, Rest, Sleep Talk, and Stored Power.
You have Thunderbolt for immediate threating Toxapex
You have Flash Cannon and Toxic for Unaware Clafable
You have Adaptability Facade coming from a decent 105 Atk when your Toxic'd
You got Earth Power and Earthquake for Clodsire
You got boltbeam coverage
You don't even need to run status moves, just use an all out attacking set because your stats are fucking 160/105/110/130/110/85. You're literally just a traditional Uber Pokemon in every sense with a worse (old) protean built into your existence.
 
Palkia has plenty of checks, some of which are OU mons. Does that make it balanced? Oh blissey and clef wall palkia? Well I guess it's OU material then. If you make a team with terapagos, you factor in the few things that may wall and and prepare to take advantage of it accordingly, which is extremely easy to do when there are so few to begin with. It also condenses so much utility by spinning while boosting speed + cm + has zamazenta level defenses with 160 base hp and a better multiscale, or can run rp +/ sp etc.
 
The philosphy of the brokeness of terapagos is honestly wild, some people went from saying that it was the most broken thing ever and why did the OU council allow this to "nu-uh, it has many checks and counters *precedes to list maybe one counter if we're lucky*

This has occured this whole generation and it's so funny, people flip-flop here more than thongs/sandals.
 
Lethargic said:
Ik this is a one liner, but post elo
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Been testing stuff in the 1500-1700 ELO, which is my usual ELO
1LDK said:
Okay bro, this is directed not just you, but for a lot of people, I have seen a lot of you bums saying "no, x is not broken, it has so many checks" like, my brother in christ, tell me what are the checks, if you are in the right, you should be able to win the argument, so why not show them, and you can save the mon and be smart

>but think for yourself

bro we are in OU forums in smogon, nobody here fucking thinks, in fact, I'm so petty that I'm gonna actually help you out and post 1 counter

Unawere CM Clefable takes literally nothing from it and sets on turtle forver, you can even slot knock off to deny the buffed multiscale
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I have litterally said CM latias counters Terapagos a few times already, how many more times do you need to hear it?

Latias, Iron Hands, Clodsire, Skeledirge, Clefable, Gholdengo. All this and even more mons counter almost all or ALL the possible sets.

Most hard hitters specially fighting types can 2HKO it once its isnt at 99% which is fairly easy to do.

It is also VERY slow for the meta, so for it to actually become unstoppable it needs many turns to set up in most cases, which is something it cant afford often.

The stuff you can do do against its just so much, im baffled you guys feel its so obvious this thing needs a QB
 
KamenOH said:
That uhh land down under slowed and reverb is pretty good ngl. Makes me wanna actually try and use Mamoswine against terapagos

Unrelated but we need an emote for cheeky shit that isnt incredulous buffoonery or good content, but somewhere in between. This thread alone is a gold mine for it
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Honestly, I ain’t gonna lie, that’s a banger right there

But also, on a related note, Terapagos

Has Boltbeam Coverage
Has Hazard Removal with Rapid Spin
Calm Mind Sets are just annoying to play
Most Games come down to Critting The other player’s terapagos
Has toxic to cripple enemies
Has INSANE coverage
Tera Starstorm is crazy
Has CRAZY bulk
Has CRAZY Offensives
Has a 700 BST
Mind you, that’s tied for SECOND in the ENTIRE GAME



so yeah, maybe it is broken.
 
Wolf-X said:
Been testing stuff in the 1500-1700 ELO, which is my usual ELO

I have litterally said CM latias counters Terapagos a few times already, how many more times do you need to hear it?

Latias, Iron Hands, Clodsire, Skeledirge, Clefable, Gholdengo. All this and even more mons counter almost all or ALL the possible sets.

Most hard hitters specially fighting types can 2HKO it once its isnt at 99% which is fairly easy to do.

It is also VERY slow for the meta, so for it to actually become unstoppable it needs many turns to set up in most cases, which is something it cant afford often.

The stuff you can do do against its just so much, im baffled you guys feel its so obvious this thing needs a QB
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I mean, hatterene techinically counters terapagos. The thing is, only the unaware pokemon can fully counter the norma set. But here's the thing, it can run a variety of sets. Ground coverage destroys Iron hands, clodsire, skeledirge and non air balloon gholdengo. Ice beam destroys latias and clodsire. Flash cannon destroys clefable. Sure, these pokemon might handle the normal rest-stored power set, but they can't counter every set. All of these are good moves, and reminder that tera starstorm hits neutrally on all types once it teras.
Yes, it can't have all the coverage it wants, but most get destroyed by starstorm, so it doesn't need the coverage, it can just click the nuke button.
 
Wolf-X said:
Been testing stuff in the 1500-1700 ELO, which is my usual ELO

I have litterally said CM latias counters Terapagos a few times already, how many more times do you need to hear it?

Latias, Iron Hands, Clodsire, Skeledirge, Clefable, Gholdengo. All this and even more mons counter almost all or ALL the possible sets.

Most hard hitters specially fighting types can 2HKO it once its isnt at 99% which is fairly easy to do.

It is also VERY slow for the meta, so for it to actually become unstoppable it needs many turns to set up in most cases, which is something it cant afford often.

The stuff you can do do against its just so much, im baffled you guys feel its so obvious this thing needs a QB
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All mentioned Pokemon are checks to Terapagos, and some aren't all that great at checking it.
It can Ice Beam Latias and Clodsire, Stored Power or Toxic Unaware Pokemon, and I don't even know why you mention Gholdengo here when Tera Starstorm hits Ghost types when Terapagos Teras.
Just because they can potentially answer the standard RP/CM/TSS set doesn't mean they actually counter Terapagos. Because Terapagos isn't limited to just that set or even being special. It has 105 Atk where all non-STAB moves are boosted by x1.2, kind of like how Ogerpon's masks work.
 
DaddyBuzzwole said:
View attachment 580802
somehow i have the tiniest inkling that this guy knows what he's talking about and that we should probably hear him out on this one. just a hunch, you know?

how do you think he got to be the tier leader? you kiiiinda have to be an expert at the game, tiering policy, and game balancing to get a title like that. it's not a position you can just buy or inherit or charm your way into, these people are in charge because they know their shit, and because they do that better than most
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Tier leaders aren't infallible. Don't try to push the narrative that they are (just for the sake of redemption).
 
*Me seeing another potential Hazard Remover die because it's unfortunately stapled to an Uber in disguise.*

"This is so sad can we hit Gholdengo now?"

Non-joke talk: How is Ghold looking for people on the latter right now? Despite not getting much for new OU Hazard Removal (we got Excadrill and I guess Cinccino if Maushold is legitimate too), it feels like so many of the things added this DLC are designed to absolutely murder it, between Triple Axel making Dark Types Meowscarada and Weavile way more viable, Gouging Fire as a fat Fire Sweeper, it and Raging Bolt bolstering Sun hard (a playstyle Gholdengo probably doesn't like given how many Proto mons can hit it SE or just ridiculously-strong Neutrally), and some unbans that exploit/threaten it like Volc, Roaring Moon, and Darkrai. You also have other small details like Temper Flare basically being designed as "punishment" coverage for anything using a move it tries to blank via type immunity or GaG.

It feels like the DLC did everything it could to reduce Gholdengo's strangle hold short of actually nerfing the mon itself or adding removers for its most infamous influence.
 
Lightniong said:
Has a 700 BST
Mind you, that’s tied for SECOND in the ENTIRE GAME
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ok, i just want to dispel the notion that 700 bst is automatically a death sentence for a mon. yes, it's a massive number and it's mathematically very difficult to make that not be op. but we had :kyurem-black: in the tier for a couple gens and it was fine. we had megas, a pretty similar concept to what terapagos-stellar is doing, that were 700 bst and less viable than their pre-mega forms (:tyranitar-mega::garchomp-mega:), and others that were more viable but still fine (:diancie-mega::latias-mega::latios-mega:). what makes terapagos-stellar broken beyond broken isn't solely the bst. the bst is part of it, yes. but more of the fault lies with the stat distribution, the insane movepool, the stupid-ass unresisted 120-bp stab, and whatever nonsense boosts stellar tera gives the mon (i still haven't memorized the exact amount of boost, stellar tera's probably gonna be irrelevant outside of this thing). although it does undercut my point a little that i'm pretty sure the council voted to ban it as i was typing this
 
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Rekka's Backend said:
Eternatus-Max could walk into OU and some of you would be dying on the altar to defend it existing because "uhh uhhh Iron Threads and EXEDRILL SLOW IT DOWN!!!"

Anyway

Meowscarada is so fucking good now I love my kitty cat
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That has happened. In Gen 6, people died on the hill saying that aegislash was not banworthy. "Uhhh, shadow ball actually doesn't hit that hard because it is only 80 bp."
Yeah, mostly unresisted stab move coming off 150 spA is apparently "not that powerful"
 
Heatranator said:
That has happened. In Gen 6, people died on the hill saying that aegislash was not banworthy. "Uhhh, shadow ball actually doesn't hit that hard because it is only 80 bp."
Yeah, mostly unresisted stab move coming off 150 spA is apparently "not that powerful"
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God I wasn't there for that but thats so absurdly funny. History repeats itself constantly I see.
 
pika pal said:
How is Ghold looking for people on the latter right now? [...] It feels like the DLC did everything it could to reduce Gholdengo's strangle hold short of actually nerfing the mon itself or adding removers for its most infamous influence.
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yep i agree, i think currently Ghold is probably the worst it's ever been. which is nice for the meta. it's still good, obviously, but like, the new additions do really help keep it under control.

Finchinator said:
A ban is imminent.
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also, this is great news. good work on listening to the community and acting quickly ou council, appreciate u guys
 
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