Actually, yeah it should. Jokes aside, I 2 hit ko'd a torkoal in sun. WITHOUT Tera, that shit hit hard.
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
Some thoughts from me:
I think Gourging Fire is gonna start forcing Tusk to use Earthquake over Headlong Rush to avoid a burn. Gourging Fire is also SO bulky.
I’ve experimented with Assault Vest Archaludon with SpDef investment and it’s pretty good, especially against Enamorous, since the extra bulk to survive Earth Power is pretty surprising and Arch OHKOs in return with Flash Cannon. Just needs a little Wish support.
Latios enjoys its buffs. Since weather seems to be big with these new abusers, I’ve utilized Speced Tera Psychic Luster Purge, which OHKOs both Pelipper and Torkoal.
Serperior is good. Mean with Tera Ground.
Gliscor is as annoying as ever.
Tera Stellar Enamorous is funny. The only way to kill it is speed or a bulky Mon right off the bat. But it definitely restricts your Tera.
Bellossom should stay OU.
I think Gourging Fire is gonna start forcing Tusk to use Earthquake over Headlong Rush to avoid a burn. Gourging Fire is also SO bulky.
I’ve experimented with Assault Vest Archaludon with SpDef investment and it’s pretty good, especially against Enamorous, since the extra bulk to survive Earth Power is pretty surprising and Arch OHKOs in return with Flash Cannon. Just needs a little Wish support.
Latios enjoys its buffs. Since weather seems to be big with these new abusers, I’ve utilized Speced Tera Psychic Luster Purge, which OHKOs both Pelipper and Torkoal.
Serperior is good. Mean with Tera Ground.
Gliscor is as annoying as ever.
Tera Stellar Enamorous is funny. The only way to kill it is speed or a bulky Mon right off the bat. But it definitely restricts your Tera.
Bellossom should stay OU.
Hello! I am a long time forum observer but this is my first post. I've loved snooping here so I thought I would make a post about Kyurem, who I feel is one of the most under-rated but possibly broken mons in the meta. I haven't seen a ton of Kyurem on the ladder personally and the most common set is loaded dice + DD. That set can be strong but something feels missing. Without strong dragon STAB like bax you have to run loaded dice on DD which isn't ideal. The real threat is choice specs, which has been dominant in my usage of it.
Very little can switch into this Kyurem set. Balloon gambit/gholdengo can, but you have to keep the balloon or tera intact to have a chance. Many of the tier's most prominent special walls/dragon resists (Toxapex, Archaludon, Goodra-H, Glowking, Heatran) can't switch into Earth Power and/or Freeze Dry. Air balloon users can be pretty annoying for specs Kyurem, but your opponent has to play diligently around your other threats to keep the balloon intact for Kyurem.
This is the set I've had good results with:
Kyurem @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Ice Beam
- Freeze-Dry
- Earth Power
Almost no mon in the current meta can switch into Kyurem's strong STAB + Freeze-Dry coverage + ground.
This is the team I've been using Kyurem on that's had the best success.
https://pokepast.es/94d4725dcf0ea735
A basic regen core + bulky pivots to get Kyurem and Serp in the game. It's strong at around mid-ladder range which is nothing crazy, but I really think specs Kyurem is a monster in this current meta and I could see it being broken as the meta settles down. Aside from Blissey/Chansey there's almost no way to stop it without making correct predictions, and often Kyurem is strong enough even with Timid nature to nuke stuff. I'd love to know what you think.
Very little can switch into this Kyurem set. Balloon gambit/gholdengo can, but you have to keep the balloon or tera intact to have a chance. Many of the tier's most prominent special walls/dragon resists (Toxapex, Archaludon, Goodra-H, Glowking, Heatran) can't switch into Earth Power and/or Freeze Dry. Air balloon users can be pretty annoying for specs Kyurem, but your opponent has to play diligently around your other threats to keep the balloon intact for Kyurem.
This is the set I've had good results with:
Kyurem @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Ice Beam
- Freeze-Dry
- Earth Power
Almost no mon in the current meta can switch into Kyurem's strong STAB + Freeze-Dry coverage + ground.
This is the team I've been using Kyurem on that's had the best success.
https://pokepast.es/94d4725dcf0ea735
A basic regen core + bulky pivots to get Kyurem and Serp in the game. It's strong at around mid-ladder range which is nothing crazy, but I really think specs Kyurem is a monster in this current meta and I could see it being broken as the meta settles down. Aside from Blissey/Chansey there's almost no way to stop it without making correct predictions, and often Kyurem is strong enough even with Timid nature to nuke stuff. I'd love to know what you think.
Something about the Psychic Noise Discourse: how many Draining Kiss or other Drain-move users are there in OU? Apparently the Heal Block effect extends to these moves flat out not being clickable as opposed to hitting without healing. Are there any major Pokemon who this interaction would affect (effectively being Disable on one of their attacking options)?
Alluring voice sucks and so does Glaceon, and don't worry, even if Kyurem gets banned, Glaceon won't replace it.
I wouldn't say that Kyurem is underrated, it's just that people try out the new shiny toys instead. The meta is also extremely weak to Ice spam right now with Toxapex and Alomomola being borderline UU pre-DLC, the return of Glisc and Moon... Gliscor was banned partly due to the lack of Ice coverage in OU, but with the return of Kyurem and Triple Axel Weavile, just give it a few days and Kyurem will be popping off.
Hatterene, Primarina Drain Punch Iron Hands, Giga Drain Volc, that's all I can think of
I remember using it in previous gens lower tiers too as a great Sticky Webs absuser. Ribombee was faster, but Araquanid was bulkier by a long shot and very threatening. It with Hoopa-C and several priority abusers actually got me pretty high on the Gen 7 UU ladder. Imagine if Dracovish could set up its own Sticky Webs.
Anyways, elaborating on point about Psychic Noise
-When Psychic deals less than 37.5% damage to the opponent holding Leftovers, it will outdamaged by Psychic Noise in 1 turn as Psychic Noise would deal 31.25% and Leftovers would heal off that damage.
-When Psychic deals less than 75% damage and either the opponent is being doubled healed with Leftovers+Grassy Terrain or Poison Heal, Psychic Noise will deal 62.5% damage which will outdamage Psychic thanks to it blocking healing.
—Should be noted you 2HKO at that point, so it’d need to be around 50% for the blocking of leftovers/grassy/poison heal to matter. Still favors Noise as it blocks Recover moves.
-When using Psychic Noise, you also block the healing effect Drain moves have such as Bitter Blade, Horn Leech, Drain Punch, and Drain Kiss.
Pros:
-Can make wallbreaking much easier for Psychic Types that learn it as Pokemon switching in can’t recover
-At some damage thresholds you actually do more effective damage
-You can switch out after using it without giving your opponent a free heal via recover or roost
-Pairs wonderfully with Grassy Terrain as you can hog all the healing for your team and pairs nicely with Burns and Poison
-Being Sound, you bypass Sub, are affected by Liquid Voice, and you activate Throat Spray when using it
Cons:
-It has less raw power, which can sometimes rob you out of an OHKO or 2HKO on a Pokemon that otherwise doesn’t heal itself
-At other thresholds you will do less damage definitely (ie. Psychic does like 57% while Noise will do 47.5%, so Psychic is always a 2HKO and Noise is a 3HKO) (It’s so small it REALLY doesn’t matter but is a downside anyways)
-Pairs poorly with Knock Off as Knock Off will Knock off Leftovers and nullify that positive basically
-Being Sound, you are affected by Liquid Voice (meaning you now compete with Hydro Pumps), Pokemon with Soundproof are immune to your moves, Punk Rock will halve your damage, and Throat Chop blocks your move entirely
-Shield Dust blocks this effect and so will Sheer Force (which only matters on Braviary and in OMs)
It won’t prevent the moves from being used, but will prevent them from healing.
Which actually has me thinking. Does Triage get priority if under Heal Block effect?
Was going off this Tweet that was shared in the Research thread, in which Heal Blocked Hands flat out fails to use Drain Punch that turn
Ok wow so Bulbapedia needs to update their page then.
https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Heal_Block_(move)
“If an affected Pokémon uses HP-draining moves, they still inflict damage but are unable to restore HP. The user still takes damage if the target has Liquid Ooze.”
That makes Psychic Noise way better.
current metagame thoughts
lifeorb modest 4atks is so good. seems like the next biggest priority for tiering action now terapagos is gone
dont waste your time on stellar-blast sets, subglare leafstorm tera-blast-ground is its best set imo, and scarf is ok too. i think this is the 2nd most likely mon to be banned but for now it's more of a suspect candidate than a quickban imo
nothing has really changed for roaring moon post-dlc since we didn't get tapus or zama-c, if you thought it was banworthy then you'll probably come to the same conclusion now
hypnosis is lame. i think darkrai needs more time in the meta since unlike moon we dont really know which sets are gonna be good yet, also from a balance or stall building perspective darkrai seems to be a very restrictive mon if people use NP taunt but whilst the early meta is hyper offensive it doesnt seem too bad right now
very few people seem to be using balance so kyurem doesnt benefit from its historically best matchup. it also dislikes all the fast mons and difficult to remove rocks. losing roost is pretty significant, too - boots sets arent as good as they used to be. i think it can stay for now but its one of those mons that will only get better as the meta stabilises
again balance is barely a thing right now so gliscor seems fine for now. unlike moon there have been some additions with favourable gliscor matchups -- darkrai kyurem serperior ironboulder ragingbolt and reuniclus are all nice. even gfire can muscle past it, meaning there really isnt alot of gliscor food anymore. also helps that ghold is suffering rn too.
seems to be suffering, people are using heatran and skeledirge and knock spam on bulky offenses, ditto gets used in early meta too, moon annoys it, gouging fire not only counters volc but also provides competition as another bulky setup fire type. i dont think it deserves tiering action right now
(
) the new volcarona in some ways, also can be a nuke on sun with both proto and stab boosts, overall seems pretty healthy for the meta right now i feel, its limiting volcarona and gholdengo whilst still being beatable by mons like tusk and dozo
As much as I enjoy Roaring moon because it carries my ass and the fact that i voted "No Ban" in its suspect test, i'm more inclined to consider it broken now, although not necessarily a priority and this could change after a few bans
A not so friendly reminder that Smeargle is back. Anybody been using it? Any sets? I’ve seen the hazard stacker set with spore ceaseless edge stone axe and webs in rand bats. Is it as dogshit as expected in OU? Of course it’s outclassed by Deo and Scor. Anybody trying anything different? Do offensive sets go brrrrr?
Can you share some replays of deoxys speed that suggest it is a priority? I've used it on every team so far this season and it's never been an easy click buttons and win. I've only swept with it a handful of times and never been swept. But maybe things are different up in 1900s so if that's you please share. I see a lot of people saying it's broken, but I have yet to see it in my battles or watching battles so please share replays if I'm missing something.current metagame thoughts
The thing can hardly switch in and really struggles to set up.
Outside of a mediocre Spore lead it doesn't do much -- its stats are too shit. Smeargle's best for Baton Pass strats due to enabling otherwise impossible buff passing combos, but you can't Baton Pass cause the move is banned.
my brother, it's time to ditch the every-other-post-is-about-Glaceon persona
Initial thoughts on the meta as a whole. I haven't played too much but the meta is incredibly fast-paced. Hazards are crazier than ever. Battles feel like trading mon after mon and trying not to get swept. It's pretty fun ngl, but after a while this is annoying. While I think other mons need to be looked at first for a suspect, I would like to be adamant that ghold deserves a suspect. While I don't think Ghold is super oppressing itself, I do find its effects against hazard counterplay extremely oppressive. The most prevalent thing in this meta is hazard stacking. Obviously, with all the new mons, I think we should let the council ban or suspect whatever is needed to, but afterward, I think a look into this HO and hazard style needs to be looked into, and ghold is at the forefront.
OU Viability List for the initial DLC2 metagame is now up: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sv-ou-dlc2-viability-list.3732813/#post-9897581 -- be sure to check it out!
How explicitly is this supposed to be relevant to the current metagame?
It's unreleased
Running double spore with smeargle and amoongus is a pretty nasty way to ensure darkrai gets maximum setup and bad dreams damage.
One pokemon i really dont see and would like to put a spotlight on is
Tera ice triple axel is nasty strong with technician, which allows you to run wide lens for consistency. 115 speed is still great but i do use it with webs to stop booster pokemon from outspeeding. its also handy as an anti lead agaisnt sash users.
@ Wide Lens Ability: Technician
Tera Type: Ice
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Triple Axel
- Double Hit
- Beat Up
- Fake Out
This isnt anything A rank but i think it is strong and fast enough to earn a place on the VR. Once the dust settles itll be an easier case to make
Oh, well, that explains why my Google search I've been doing just now went so poorly. Saves me time.
It'll probably be released around Pokémon Day because you need the Mythical Pecha Berry item to trigger its special sidequest
EDIT: It releases January 11
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Thanks, I was trying to find out its place in the DLC and was going mad looking it up
I’m pretty surprised Hydrapple is ranked so high. What’s the best set for it?
It's close between high and medium TBH. I have seen specs, 3a boots, and NP boots. I think it hits hard and has some nice defensive tera prospects, but its slowness hurts and can lead to it being overwhelmed