Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4

Cuddly said:
And with Screens Deoxys, you are the fastest Screens setter with access to Teleport as well.
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Cuddly said:
with access to Teleport as well.
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Cuddly said:
Teleport
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WAT?!

How did I not notice this before? Why isn't this shit everywhere? I mean, I'm grateful, but that feels so much stronger than using DeoS as a hazard lead.

Also, strong agree that the lead Deoxys trend inherently improves Hamurott's viability, both for the reasons you mentioned in the direct MU and because lead Deoxys invites Hatterene usage, which Hamurott also welcomes. AV has been a very strong play for me, since there's nothing Deoxys can throw at you short of Tera Fighting Focus Blast that has a chance to OHKO, and with Sacred Sword over Knock, it also offers a good emergency check to Darkrai, the Latii, and others.

Finally (and only loosely related), to anybody ranking Dragonite below A/A-, give Band a shot. It's harder than ever to set up DD now, but Band's immediate power threatens so many things. A few mons that have at least a decent shot at being OHKOed by banded Tera Normal Extreme Speed after a layer of spikes:
Roaring Moon, Enamorus, Serperior, Darkrai, Deoxys-Speed, offensive Volc, and more. Obviously not a perfect check, as there's a vulnerability to Tera Ghost shenanigans and invites in some other threatening mons, particularly Zama, but a fantastic blanket check to some of the biggest threats in the meta all the same.
 
carbonlifeform said:
WAT?!

How did I not notice this before? Why isn't this shit everywhere? I mean, I'm grateful, but that feels so much stronger than using DeoS as a hazard lead.
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i'm not sure, but it probably has something to do with deo-s being the fastest mon in the meta and teleport being a negative-priority move. it leaves you open to getting hit, which deo-s doesn't particularly like even with screens—or worse, getting taunted. it would fit more on deo-d, which has historically found use as a slow bulky pivot with a sweet gen-3-psychic-type movepool, but the problem with using deo-d (besides passivity and a bad matchup spread) is that species clause exists
 
Okay, so what are people's thoughts on primarina? IMO, it's been pretty great with an assault vest. It can take many special hits well and can deal back great damage. The main weakness of it is that it is very vunerable to hazards, but good hazard removal can elleviate this. Even with hazards, it can still do it's job well.
 
DaddyBuzzwole said:
i'm not sure, but it probably has something to do with deo-s being the fastest mon in the meta and teleport being a negative-priority move. it leaves you open to getting hit, which deo-s doesn't particularly like even with screens—or worse, getting taunted. it would fit more on deo-d, which has historically found use as a slow bulky pivot, but the problem with using deo-d is that species clause exists
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The combination of speed and negative priority pivoting isn't somehow contradictory, it's a massive advantage.The speed is there to get screens up, teleport is there to get a teammate in safely while scouting your opponent's response. Your setter taking a hit is way less of a problem than your set up 'mon taking one.
 
tommytt22 said:
I wrote the article for Comfey on the new and returning pokemon thread. I couldnt actually bring myself to use it until today and boy did i underestimate it.

:sv/Comfey: @ Grassy Seed
Ability: Triage
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 208 HP / 252 Def / 48 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draining Kiss
- Stored Power
- Calm Mind
- Synthesis



credit where credit is due, i overlooked tera boosting moves to 60bp. so tera fairy comfey really hits quite a lot harder with draining kiss than youd expect. In grassy terrain you can expect to 1v1 threats like offensive gouging fire, dragapult, great tusk, greninja, valiant etc. most of these dont require sinking your tera
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I'm definitely gonna try that thing out, but apparently 60 BP Triage Draining Kiss under tera is not currently implemented correctly on Showdown or the calc. When you factor in the STAB multiplier that's actually a pretty substantial power difference. Check this out for more information:

DarkFE said:
Moves boosted in priority by abilities do seem to receive the Tera 60 Base Power Minimum, as you can see by Comfey dealing otherwise impossible amounts of damage in this footage with its Tera Grass Absorb. This is not currently implemented on Showdown nor in the damage calculator, as shown in this replay. Pokemon stats are included in the linked footage with multiple damage rolls if anyone wants to double-check this for themselves.
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Napoli Burns said:
XOxE0dr.png


rmoon, volcarona and dengo are stronger than ever

kyurem even without roost can hit so many things
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I like ur list, I think like the other player said you're underrating Samurott H a bit, and I also think you're underrating Packing Heat, it is a pretty nasty setup sweeper and kinda hard to respond to imo. And Toxapex is still kinda good, not quite D. Other ranks are damn good, someone above mentioned Glimmora being too low and like maybe D is a bit harsh but it really is shit all over by Deoxys
 
Heatranator said:
Okay, so what are people's thoughts on primarina? IMO, it's been pretty great with an assault vest. It can take many special hits well and can deal back great damage. The main weakness of it is that it is very vunerable to hazards, but good hazard removal can elleviate this. Even with hazards, it can still do it's job well.
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i was going to voice my doubts because i've only run into one, but it did destroy me that one time. and as a matter of fact, i just went into teambuilder and realized that like half my teams get blown apart by either vest, scarf, or specs primarina. solid matchups against gliscor, moon, non-grass volc, non-sludge-bomb darkrai, wake, gouging, some pult sets, a few zamazenta sets, and a lot of things that run substitute. seems like it's definitely got a place in the meta here
 
Honestly, I love the current meta. There are a few outliers imo, but overall the current meta feels really fun and competitive. It feels like the meta despite being centralized around a few mons is pretty diverse ironically enough. Its been a blast to team build and just mess around with things.

There are a few mons I have long term concerns on, which we will probably see addressed in a survey sooner or later. I am just gonna note them below, but to be honest idk if I would give anything outside of one mon higher than a 3. I think this meta doesn't have any massive outliers that demand action ASAP, outside of maybe one case. Speaking of which...

:deoxys speed: I think this is the only mon in the metagame that would get above a 3 from me. We all know Deoxys Speed is a very solid mon. It is an insane lead and an excellent revenge killer. Personally speaking, I think the lead sets while strong are fine. I don't see Dual Screens or Hazards Deoxys Speed as too offensive for our current format. Yes, it is an extremely strong dedicated lead, but we have had those in the past. Is Dual Screens Deo S that much more offensive than Screens Grimmsnarl, Dragapult, or Alolan Ninetales? Is the hazard lead that much more broken than the Hisuian Samurott or Glimmora as a lead? I mean, its obviously a damn good lead, but it doesn't feel out of place in modern SV OU to me. I feel like for the lead sets, there is even adaptation we could make. Things like Lead Hisuiuan Samurott or running Grimmsnarl as a dual screens mon are reasonable adaptations that I have found some success with and help deal with Deoxys Speed leads.

My concern is the offensive sets. LO 4 Attacks and Nasty Plot are pretty strong... right now. I feel like since offensive Deoxys Speed isn't as common as it should be, teams are under preparing for it which is making it even stronger than it would normally be. I would not be shocked if Deoxys Speed's offensive sets become more and more broken by the end of the year, to the point after an OU survey there is enough willpower to ban it. But I feel until we see offensive Deo S trickle down more, it is gonna be hard to say if we "need" to take action.

If we had a survey right now, I would give it somewhere between a 3 and a 4, leaning on a 3. I won't lie, despite how strong and metagame defining Deoxys Speed is, it "feels" more manageable than other quickbans we have had to do throughout Scarlet and Violet. Its obviously a subjective statement, but it feels like it settles into the meta as much as it centralizes it. Sure, Offensive Deoxys Speed is scary, but it feels kind of like Dragapult's offensive sets right now, just dialed up a bit with an even better speed tier and nasty plot. Its lead sets are strong, but I do not feel they are egregiously strong for OU. I guess I just want to wait and see how the offensive sets settle into the meta. If the offensive sets were not on the table, I would say Deoxys Speed would be fine. It is still the mon that I think should get the most scrutiny going forward, and I am shocked people have floated other mons before it.

There are other mons I would keep an eye on. Iron Boulder, Gouging Fire, Roaring Moon, Enamorus, Serperior, and Gholdengo all come to mind. But I feel like for the most part, this meta is settling down in a good spot and we should just keep an eye on things and prepare for a suspect test if needed on those mons.
 
carbonlifeform said:
The combination of speed and negative priority pivoting isn't somehow contradictory, it's a massive advantage.The speed is there to get screens up, teleport is there to get a teammate in safely while scouting your opponent's response. Your setter taking a hit is way less of a problem than your set up 'mon taking one.
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true enough, but i think grimmsnarl still wins out as a screen-setting lead/anti-lead—he can set screens faster than even deo-s can, and that prankster taunt works really well against opposing deo-s
Heatranator said:
And a spooky and festive theme. Even better. Despite me being an edgelord, I will be sticking to normal theme because it just makes me feel nostalgic :)
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i like the theme options we have, but i wish there were more options too—i don't know how much of a demand there is for it, but i also don't think more palette swaps would be too hard to do (maybe even a create-your-own-theme option?). i'd especially like a "dark festive" option because i want to celebrate christmas but the bright colors of festive theme kinda hurt my eyes
 
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DaddyBuzzwole said:
true enough, but i think grimmsnarl still wins out as a screen-setting lead/anti-lead—he can set screens faster than even deo-s can, and that prankster taunt works really well against opposing deo-s

i like the theme options we have, but i wish there were more options too—i don't know how much of a demand there is for it, but i also don't think more palette swaps would be too hard to do (maybe even a create-your-own-theme option?). i'd especially like a "dark festive" option because i want to celebrate christmas but the bright colors of festive theme kinda hurt my eyes
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Man named Mental Herb
 
MX42 said:
Honestly, I love the current meta. There are a few outliers imo, but overall the current meta feels really fun and competitive. It feels like the meta despite being centralized around a few mons is pretty diverse ironically enough. Its been a blast to team build and just mess around with things.

There are a few mons I have long term concerns on, which we will probably see addressed in a survey sooner or later. I am just gonna note them below, but to be honest idk if I would give anything outside of one mon higher than a 3. I think this meta doesn't have any massive outliers that demand action ASAP, outside of maybe one case. Speaking of which...

:deoxys speed: I think this is the only mon in the metagame that would get above a 3 from me. We all know Deoxys Speed is a very solid mon. It is an insane lead and an excellent revenge killer. Personally speaking, I think the lead sets while strong are fine. I don't see Dual Screens or Hazards Deoxys Speed as too offensive for our current format. Yes, it is an extremely strong dedicated lead, but we have had those in the past. Is Dual Screens Deo S that much more offensive than Screens Grimmsnarl, Dragapult, or Alolan Ninetales? Is the hazard lead that much more broken than the Hisuian Samurott or Glimmora as a lead? I mean, its obviously a damn good lead, but it doesn't feel out of place in modern SV OU to me. I feel like for the lead sets, there is even adaptation we could make. Things like Lead Hisuiuan Samurott or running Grimmsnarl as a dual screens mon are reasonable adaptations that I have found some success with and help deal with Deoxys Speed leads.

My concern is the offensive sets. LO 4 Attacks and Nasty Plot are pretty strong... right now. I feel like since offensive Deoxys Speed isn't as common as it should be, teams are under preparing for it which is making it even stronger than it would normally be. I would not be shocked if Deoxys Speed's offensive sets become more and more broken by the end of the year, to the point after an OU survey there is enough willpower to ban it. But I feel until we see offensive Deo S trickle down more, it is gonna be hard to say if we "need" to take action.

If we had a survey right now, I would give it somewhere between a 3 and a 4, leaning on a 3. I won't lie, despite how strong and metagame defining Deoxys Speed is, it "feels" more manageable than other quickbans we have had to do throughout Scarlet and Violet. Its obviously a subjective statement, but it feels like it settles into the meta as much as it centralizes it. Sure, Offensive Deoxys Speed is scary, but it feels kind of like Dragapult's offensive sets right now, just dialed up a bit with an even better speed tier and nasty plot. Its lead sets are strong, but I do not feel they are egregiously strong for OU. I guess I just want to wait and see how the offensive sets settle into the meta. If the offensive sets were not on the table, I would say Deoxys Speed would be fine. It is still the mon that I think should get the most scrutiny going forward, and I am shocked people have floated other mons before it.

There are other mons I would keep an eye on. Iron Boulder, Gouging Fire, Roaring Moon, Enamorus, Serperior, and Gholdengo all come to mind. But I feel like for the most part, this meta is settling down in a good spot and we should just keep an eye on things and prepare for a suspect test if needed on those mons.
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I’d like to add that unless your opponent is using like Samurott-H or Ninetales-A, you don’t really know what set Deoxys-S will be running. And even then you only narrow it down to not using specific set. Also being so specialized for each set, it can mix and match its moveset to beat specific Pokemon. Skillswap, Trick, Teleport, Extreme Speed, Knock Off, Thunder Wave, Fling, Imprison, Counter/Mirror Coat, and a lot more ways to throw a curve ball.
 
This might be a bit preemptive but this feels like the best meta Gen 9's had.
1703126964687.png

Shoutout specifically to these 4, who all manage to be incredibly unique & strong bulky offense mons. They really have helped slow down the pace of the game to what it was before.
1703127058151.png

Gholdengo's the worst its ever been right now. it no longer counters offensive tusk in any capacity, which is a huge blow to it. I still want it gone. It's the principle of the matter. (No i'm not actually advocating for a suspect, I know this just me being salty).
1703127557241.png

This thing's lead sets are more than managable. It's so frail and now that hazard removal is somewhat reliable again, Its not overwhelming. I haven't encountered many offensive deoxys, so I can't really speak for how broken it is, but hasn't seemed overtly so yet.
1703127183303.png

I'm not sold on this thing being healthy. Not as stupid as it was before, as it really lacks many good opportunities to safely come in, and things like Scarf Meowscarada and booster Iron Boulder means it needs to get to +2 +2 before it can sweep, but can still rip through teams if not defused immediately.
1703127323440.png

Is it just me or does Tera feel less intrusive now? I wasn't bothered by it before, so I admit I'm biased, but I think Stellar Tera, Enamorous & Serperior have had an ultimately positive impact on its use. Additionally, anyone else using Stellar lacks the ability to change their defensive profile, which further stabilizes its use. They're incredibly good, but are dependant on tera to be as good as they are, which significantly decreases the volatility of when tera is used. Also, the return of Skeledirge, Garganacl and addition Hydrapple, who are all also pretty reliant on tera further increases stability.
 
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Morkal said:
Time to share some niche OU sets that I've been having quite a bit of fun with as of late; some of these are tech'd to deal with specific powerful meta threats while some are more generalized against multiple playstyles and fit general team compositions as a whole.

Priority Utility Phaser Flygon
:flygon:
Flygon @ Assault Vest
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Bug
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- First Impression
- U-turn
- Earthquake
- Dragon Tail

Flygon has been my favorite anti-meta pick for a little bit now as it has some unique tools that no other Pokemon has access to in the same way - Priority First Impression smacks fast and powerful threats like Darkrai, Deoxys-S, Greninja, Hydrapple, Iron Boulder, Latias, Latios, Necrozma, Ogerpon-Cornerstone, Ogerpon-Wellspring, Rillaboom, Roaring Moon, Samurott-Hisui, Serperior, and Ting-Lu for super effective damage and can be extremely useful against Choice Scarf or just generally faster threats. U-Turn is great for maintaining momentum, while STAB Earthquake can punish multiple common OU threats. STAB Dragon Tail is additionally great for phasing - the combination of phasing + momentum along with priority is something that only Flygon can accomplish. Most of the attacks coming Flygon's way will be special (as the bulk of physical attacks Flygon resists quite handily), and Levitate further compliments that defensive profile. Tera Bug is useful for two reasons - giving priority First Impression and U-Turn STAB, and granting Flygon a new defensive resistance to Fighting-type attacks (and turning its 4x Ice weakness into a neutrality). Other Tera-type options are there, of course, but I prefer Tera Bug's offensive utility here personally.

Momentum Blocking Utility Phaser Magmortar
:magmortar:
Magmortar @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flame Body
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Knock Off
- Roar
- Clear Smog
- Lava Plume

Magmortar got newfound access to both Knock Off and Roar, making it a wonderful offensive utility phaser. You can cripple entire team core setups with this set - Knock Off cripples individual threats while Roar phases problematic Pokemon away. Clear Smog is a Taunt-proof way of stopping setup sweepers while also chipping them for acceptable damage. STAB Lava Plume has a nice burn chance and rounds out this set decently. Magmortar's acceptable special bulk with HP investment allows it to live some surprisingly strong attacks.

Agility Adaptability Tera Sweeper Porygon-Z
:porygon z:
Porygon-Z @ Expert Belt
Ability: Adaptability
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Tera Blast
- Shadow Ball
- Ice Beam
- Agility

Porygon-Z was born for Tera - Tera Blast is always Adaptability STAB, regardless of your chosen Tera type or whether you even terastallize it that match. I like to go with a Tera Fighting variant as the complimenting coverage of Shadow Ball and Ice Beam works quite well for it. Agility is going to be your primary boosting move, as Porygon-Z's biggest weak point as an offensive sweeper is its lackluster base 90 speed. You can leverage Porygon-Z's nuclear power with Adaptability far better with a +2 speed boost and additionally (mostly) solve Porygon-Z's long-existing issues with 4MSS thanks to Tera plus the additional Adaptability boost actually giving Porygon-Z two STABS (with one of those being a STAB of your choosing). Basically - Porygon-Z stacking STABs go "brr" on your opponents.

Utility Parting Shot Spinner Morpeko
:morpeko:
Morpeko @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Hunger Switch
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Aura Wheel
- Parting Shot
- Rapid Spin
- Super Fang / Knock Off / Taunt / Seed Bomb
​
I've been advocating for and using Morpeko since its introduction in Generation 8. I feel that it's one of the most underrated Pokemon and the best of the Pika clones competitively. Aura Wheel is effectively two STAB moves in one (Electric/Dark, 110 BP, 100% Acc) that boosts Morpeko's speed by one upon a successful hit (switches between the types turn by turn) and that particular STAB combination is very nice in this meta. Parting Shot allows Morpeko to maintain momentum while softening any incoming blows for teammates thanks to the -1 to both Attack and Special Attack that your opponent gets, while Rapid Spin is useful as always. The last slot is a toss-up depending on your team's specific needs, but the four options I've listed are all options that I've tooled around with that are quite useful. Super Fang will take down half of the HP of particularly immovable feeling threats like Dondozo, but STAB Knock Off pairs quite nicely with Morpeko's other utility tools. Taunt is also a great option to shut down slower defensive and utility threats, while Seed Bomb provides good coverage against some nasty OU threats.
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I love these sort of things and I really appreciate the work you've put into this. Might you indulge me in the sort of teams these sets would find themselves on, or would I assume they'd just be placed onto Balance with specific teams that are built with the utility they provide in mind?
 
Rn I'm not seeing anything potentially banworthy....

Maybe Roaring Moon might be a bit much, but so far I feel its been managable due to higher speed tiers + the new mons being bulky AF. I don't think action needs to be taken on it immediately.

Deo-S, I don't see as broken. Support sets are just doing the same shit Ting-Lu / Pult have been doing for a while and offensive sets are OK, but they don't seem broken from what I've seen. If action were to be taken against it, I think suspect would be better than an outright QB since this mon doesn't seem to be tearing apart teams like Bax / Bloodmoon could do, though this may change over time.

Kyurem has been annoying but its another mon I'm not sure we need to take action immediately against. it is bulky Af under veil and guessing between physical and special sets is a very tricky task, but its certainly has more flaws that what we've currently banned imo. It needs to Tera for Ground coverage on DD sets and Special sets are strong, but somewhat prediction reliant and need to use a boosting item for that jaw dropping power. Specs sets are generally on a timer due to hazard pressure.

Ghold suspect now would be a joke. This mon got 4+ new checks in Gouging Flame, Volcarona, Roaring Moon, and Darkrai + Old foes like Ting Lu, Gambit, and Samurott-H are still as common as ever. I'd say its effectiveness vs balance took a hit, with these structs able to more easily slot it mons that can punish it like Volcarona. Banning it now would create more problems, with Iron Boulder, Kyurem, Serperior, and Enamorus becoming more difficult to handle.
 
Magcargo said:
Rn I'm not seeing anything potentially banworthy....

Maybe Roaring Moon might be a bit much, but so far I feel its been managable due to higher speed tiers + the new mons being bulky AF. I don't think action needs to be taken on it immediately.
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I agree with your takes for the most part since Great Tusk can now reliably spin against Gholdengo with Temper Flare along with new switch-ins like Volcarona, Gouging Fire, Raging Bolt, and Roaring Moon. Gholdengo was quite oppressive before, but it's easier to handle now.

I think Roaring Moon is the most broken mon in the meta. Just because it can't sweep instantly because of the higher speed tiers doesn't mean it's not still incredibly effective at its job once you've dealt with your opponent's counterplay.
 
Magcargo said:
Rn I'm not seeing anything potentially banworthy....

Maybe Roaring Moon might be a bit much, but so far I feel its been managable due to higher speed tiers + the new mons being bulky AF. I don't think action needs to be taken on it immediately.

Deo-S, I don't see as broken. Support sets are just doing the same shit Ting-Lu / Pult have been doing for a while and offensive sets are OK, but they don't seem broken from what I've seen. If action were to be taken against it, I think suspect would be better than an outright QB since this mon doesn't seem to be tearing apart teams like Bax / Bloodmoon could do, though this may change over time.

Kyurem has been annoying but its another mon I'm not sure we need to take action immediately against. it is bulky Af under veil and guessing between physical and special sets is a very tricky task, but its certainly has more flaws that what we've currently banned imo. It needs to Tera for Ground coverage on DD sets and Special sets are strong, but somewhat prediction reliant and need to use a boosting item for that jaw dropping power. Specs sets are generally on a timer due to hazard pressure.

Ghold suspect now would be a joke. This mon got 4+ new checks in Gouging Flame, Volcarona, Roaring Moon, and Darkrai + Old foes like Ting Lu, Gambit, and Samurott-H are still as common as ever. I'd say its effectiveness vs balance took a hit, with these structs able to more easily slot it mons that can punish it like Volcarona. Banning it now would create more problems, with Iron Boulder, Kyurem, Serperior, and Enamorus becoming more difficult to handle.
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I agree 100% with everything you said especially yeah dhengo suspect right now is laughable, and moon is definitely the only potentially suspect-worthy one. Deo really isn't that much different than pult.
 
658Greninja said:
I’m just gonna drop this personal VR of my thoughts on the meta.
View attachment 582096

If anyone wants to make one themselves, here’s the templete.

https://tiermaker.com/create/scarlet-and-violet-indigo-disk-ou-tier-list-929297

To sum up a few of my thoughts in words.
View attachment 582079View attachment 582080
Skarm and Ting-Lu have solidified themselves as the premier defensive core of the tier. Covering several meta threats and shitting out hazards.

View attachment 582081View attachment 582082
Hatt matches up well with Deo-S and Gliscor/Ting-Lu/Skarm Spike Stacking while having useful utility in CM, Nuzzle, Eject Button shenanigans, and Healing Wish on HO/Sun. Skeledirge is an excellent anti-meta pick that checks a bunch of threats while being annoying to switch into itself. The additions of Serp, Latias, Iron Crown, and Volcarona have improved its relevance in the tier. It helps that the Balance structures Dirge often finds itself in have risen in popularity.

View attachment 582083View attachment 582084View attachment 582085
Blaziken appreciates the absence of Fini. Its old checks in Pex, Slowbro, Lando, and Chomp got hit by power creep or movepool nerfs. It can snowball out of control and has several options to mess with like 3Atks Protect, SD + Protect, Tera Flying Acro, etc. Darkrai is excellent at breaking Balance cores with either 3Atks Hypnosis or LO, also boasting an impressive speed tier and being solid speed control with a Scarf set. Weavile has excellent matchups into most of the top threats while providing offensive utility with Knock + Ice Shard.

View attachment 582086View attachment 582087View attachment 582088
Despite the presence of Gliscor, Garganacl remains an excellent wincon with Curse or ID. It also checks the new Gouging Fire while doing many of its old tricks. Latias as shown by players like Pinkacross, is a deadly wincon on HO teams and could also run the old classic Scarf Healing Wish set. Wogre took a huge hit in DLC2. New dragons, Serp, and the overall power level increase has put this Top 5 mon into the waiting room. It still does sport excellent utility with Knock, Encore, Spikes, and U-Turn.

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Grimm is high up because it is the ultimate anti-Deo-S. Being able to deny it from doing..anything is huge. Ttar and Sand in general got a boost with Drill. Either SpD sets, Band, or AV. It can blanket check several mons in the tier while providing utility with Knock, SR, T-Wave, and Roar. More offensive variants can crack open holes, even with Tusk/Ting-Lu/Valiant in the tier.

View attachment 582099
Mid as hell rn. Dirge stonks are on the rise. Volcarona is back. Moon means it has to run Dgleam again. Outsped by the new Iron Boulder. Things may get better for it in the future, but it just seems like a UUBL mon rn. A fall from grace.

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Cinccino is a niche alternative to Maus. Trading Population Bomb and Encore for Technician boosted T-Axel and Knock. Pert’s unique typing and access to Knock, SR, and Flip Turn gives it a small but viable niche in the tier.

View attachment 582102View attachment 582103
Hippo can soft check Boulder, offensive Tusk, Gambit, 4atks Zama, and Gouging Fire while clicking rocks. Viable if you wanna run sand but are Tyranitarophobic. If it wasn’t passive as shit, I’d be considered at least B material. As long as Gambit/Ghold exist, Incineroar will have a niche, small as it is. It also completely walls Skeledirge and threatens with Knock while being a slow effective pivot with Parting Shot.
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This is fine to discuss here but please remember there's a full thread dedicated to Personal Viability Rankings.
 
Meta is in a very good place rn. All playstyles, from ho to bo to balance to fat balance to stall are viable to a bigger or lesser extent.personally, i think balance is king rn, in terms of consistency. Reliable spin from tusk thanks to temper flare is great for the meta and i' ve seen a lot more diversity in hazard clearing options now that dengo's usage is noticeably smaller,
specially cause u can pair those more niche hazard clearance options with balance or bo staples that can take advantage of dengo, such as gouging fire,raging bolt etc. maybe, though it's early days yet, but just maybe, for once, GF did a fine job at balancing somewhat a singles 6v6 meta, without going too much in the opposite way (see the problems a generally balanced gen 8 metagame had, with regen cores etc). And i have a hunch things are about to get even better for balance from january 11 onwards, when pecharunt is released. Imo, its stats, typing, coupled with the appropriate tera type depending on team needs, and a very basic set of poltergeist, toxic, parting shot, recover, will be such a great boon for balance cores.
 
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