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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
I feel like something needs to be said about Meowscarada's ability to handle so much of the metagame with its coverage, and simply U-Turn out if it can't. It's so unbelievably consistent as a pivot, you can basically pick Flower Trick / Knock / Spikes / U-Turn / Triple Axel / Play Rough. I've even had some success with Low Kick Tera Fighting as a way to stomp Kingambit.
Trick Flame Orb Leech Seed Sub Facade T-Normal
what about its competition with great tusk?
it can also do well with ghold and can offer more.
and let's not forget iron threads.
it has even better special bulk than great tusk AND can pivot with volt switch.
also has the exact same typying as excadrill.
are you sure that it is not just "new toy syndrom"?
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Honestly I think people overreact to the prospect of Annihilape being Unbanned and should at the very least be tested in tournaments where it’s legal down the road like with Darkrai. The game is drastically different now compared to when Annihilape was banned and some of the new additions are harsh to Annihilape.
Ok but what new changes stop Bulk Up + Taunt Ape
I'll be honest, I find it insane that people were all about Gholdengo being at its worst now because of all the new checks and metagame changes, and then it ends up #3 in usage. Yeah, a lot more pokemon have coverage for it now and it has less wriggling room but guess what, it doesn't care!!!
What a stupid mon, truly a crime against nature.
What a stupid mon, truly a crime against nature.
i mostly agree, but we also have to keep the numbers in mind to understand why people are saying that. gholdengo is at 18% usage right now, down almost 10% from last month. this is legitimately the worst it's ever been. of course, that doesn't mean much in effect because it still does the same shit and it's still affecting builder as much as it was before, and the usage drop might turn out to just be new toy syndrome anyway
In reality, ignoring the whole hazard thing, Ghold is just a phenomenal glue mon. It fits on nearly every team style, has great bulk plus recovery, and isn’t passive at all. It’d be an excellent Pokémon in OU if it didn’t have good as gold.
A few things
-Stellar Type Tera Blast is a good tool for dealing with Annihilape as it can’t simply defensively Tera to tank more hits. It’ll either be neutral or super effective
-Psychic Noise prevents Annihilape from healing what so ever, and straight up prevents Drain Punch from even being used, it’s also Psychic so it’ll do super effective damage before Tera
-Gliscor was recently unbanned, is physically bulkier, faster, and can Toxic Annihilape before it can be taunted
-Knock Off, while will increase Rage Fist once, means you can remove Annihilape’s leftovers and make it harder for it to heal permanently, has gotten wide distribution
-There are a few new nuke options available
252+ Atk Protosynthesis Gouging Fire Flare Blitz vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Tera Water Annihilape in Sun: 231-273 (54.8 - 64.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (Yeah you 2HKO Annihilape with Resist simply being under Sun)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Protosynthesis Raging Bolt Draco Meteor vs. 240 HP / 252+ SpD Annihilape: 364-430 (86.4 - 102.1%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Primarina Moonblast vs. 240 HP / 252+ SpD Annihilape: 386-456 (91.6 - 108.3%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Rillaboom Wood Hammer vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Annihilape in Grassy Terrain: 490-577 (116.3 - 137%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Enamorus Moonblast vs. 240 HP / 252+ SpD Annihilape: 372-438 (88.3 - 104%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
Stall doesn’t have much for beating Annihilape besides Alluring Voice Skeledirge, but that’s true for tons of other Pokemon.
For these new additions as well as new Pokemon introduced, I think Annihilape deserves a test at least. No harm in playing a tournaments were Annihilape is legal to test the waters.
Oh and I should also mention Serperior exists. It’s fine as a check thanks to Stellar Tera Blast, but namely Contrary Leaf Storm exists. Annihilape needs you to hit it in order to get the same effective boosts as Leaf Storm would, while Leaf Storm simply just needs you to click Leaf Storm and hit. While also having far higher initial BP. And while Serperior is way faster. And muscles through everything much faster than Annihilape can besides like Skeledirge (not Tera’d) and Clodsire (not Water Absorb) because its snowballing is much faster and stronger initially. Any wouldbe walls like Heatran or Dragonite fold over to Tera Blast. Oh and Serperior also has the fair and balanced Glare.
If OU can handle Serperior it can handle Annihilape.
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Normal 
niche if hypothetically :Annihlape: drops (it won't)?
Indeedee (M) @ What You Want
Ability: Psychic Surge (the others work too)
Tera Type: What you want
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic Noise
- Calm Mind
- Stored Power
- Substitute
Psychic Noise=no dmg, Substitute=no taunt, CM stored power hehe!
It might just start running Night Slash, but...
niche if hypothetically :Annihlape: drops (it won't)?Indeedee (M) @ What You Want
Ability: Psychic Surge (the others work too)
Tera Type: What you want
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic Noise
- Calm Mind
- Stored Power
- Substitute
Psychic Noise=no dmg, Substitute=no taunt, CM stored power hehe!
It might just start running Night Slash, but...
Yeah, people were saying that it was at its worst and shit when he's still top 3. Sure it's usage dropped but so did Tusk's and Gambit's and I bet that's mostly new toy syndrome, its usage will rise up next month because he's that good.
oh good, people are talking about annihilape now.
let me spell this out, since some people on the forum don't seem to be capable of grasping this:
IF TERA DOES NOT GO, NOTHING WILL EVER BE UNBANNED IN GEN 9 OU AGAIN, NO MATTER HOW MANY POSTS YOU MAKE ABOUT IT. EVERYTHING GOT AS MANY CHANCES AS IT DESERVED, EVEN IF THAT NUMBER IS ZERO. GET OVER IT. TALK ABOUT SOMETHING ELSE.
let me spell this out, since some people on the forum don't seem to be capable of grasping this:
IF TERA DOES NOT GO, NOTHING WILL EVER BE UNBANNED IN GEN 9 OU AGAIN, NO MATTER HOW MANY POSTS YOU MAKE ABOUT IT. EVERYTHING GOT AS MANY CHANCES AS IT DESERVED, EVEN IF THAT NUMBER IS ZERO. GET OVER IT. TALK ABOUT SOMETHING ELSE.
do not engage. you've acknowledged your mental health cannot handle it.
Though finch has recently stated it so I would agree to let go of the ape discussion.
But not >everything< got as many chances as deserved. This is just you being ...that way... again. Dial it down Midrai.
Why are we talking about Annhilape.....?
TBH i really don't think tera is broken, its the pokemon that abuse it that are broken (there are some exceptions, i think)
TBH i really don't think tera is broken, its the pokemon that abuse it that are broken (there are some exceptions, i think)
So with all the talk about the new Dinosaurs, how are people finding Walking Wake to be with the resurgence of Sun teams? Is it still thriving on the old Proto-Speed/Specs sets, any utility moves picking up steam like Knock off or Flip Turn to pivot into its Boost? Its speed tier definitely gets alot of mileage when dealing with stuff like Kyurem or the Booster sets having to watch for Dragapult, Serperior, and +1 Volcarona.
The big issues I would immediately foresee are being so Prediction reliant into a lot of OPPOSING Sun abusers like Raging Bolt and Roaring Moon, which put quite a dent in it with Thunderclap or outspeeding after boosts/matching Protosynthesis, but there's also probably some value in revenging +1 Gouging Fire reliably under Sun (Neutral STAB OHKO's after Spikes damage or minimal Flare Blitz Recoil, so no need to guess around Draco vs Hydro Steam even with Gouging Tera).
One thing it brings to mind: has anyone had success with Wake outside Sun Teams as an Anti-Sun measure given the above match-ups, whether on other weather or a weatherless team of your own? A core memory of mine was being introduced to BW OU with a Hurricane Volcarona used by Rain for Sun match-ups and opposing Ferrothorn, so admittedly this is more novelty my brain clings to than an expectation it works now.
The big issues I would immediately foresee are being so Prediction reliant into a lot of OPPOSING Sun abusers like Raging Bolt and Roaring Moon, which put quite a dent in it with Thunderclap or outspeeding after boosts/matching Protosynthesis, but there's also probably some value in revenging +1 Gouging Fire reliably under Sun (Neutral STAB OHKO's after Spikes damage or minimal Flare Blitz Recoil, so no need to guess around Draco vs Hydro Steam even with Gouging Tera).
One thing it brings to mind: has anyone had success with Wake outside Sun Teams as an Anti-Sun measure given the above match-ups, whether on other weather or a weatherless team of your own? A core memory of mine was being introduced to BW OU with a Hurricane Volcarona used by Rain for Sun match-ups and opposing Ferrothorn, so admittedly this is more novelty my brain clings to than an expectation it works now.
and you were doing so well before this. you really need to work on your conflict resolution skills. trying to get in another weak-ass potshot about darkrai and making an attempt to stir up discussion about ubers while pretending to drop it destroyed the goodwill the rest of your comment was building up. you don't have to gloat about everything someone has ever been wrong about (especially when they turn out to not even really be wrong), even if that person is an acceptable target like i seem to be. trust me, i've got a smugpost about deo-d living somewhere inside my head that could rival atlas shrugged in terms of both length and assholishness, but i'm choosing to let it go instead
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I used a Specs Draco/Steam/Flamethrower/Flip Turn on a weatherless BO DLC1 and it was great. Ran through Sun teams and provided useful resists and good offensive coverage. Started messing around with the moveset switching Steam for Scald and Flamethrower for Knock which is what I use in DLC2 and it still rocks. Doesn't run through Sun as hard without Steam but still does heavy damage and helps make progress.
As a Specs user it still has great assets over others:
Can pivot which Kyurem can't
Can knock off which no common Specs user can
Has Scald which Keldeo does not
Buffed in both Sun and Rain and can punish opposing sun with Steam
1/4x Water & Fire Resist
Walking Wake is and has been just plain good.
For what it's worth, if you look at the OUPL replays of ape and shifu, they didn't do that much. Though OUPL may not be the best to judge such mons since they'll be heavily prepped for.
time to pull out the wall of rain calcs for rs again...
(for pure context I know he's not in the game) +2 252+ Atk Punching Glove Tera Water Urshifu-Rapid-Strike Surging Strikes (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 44+ Def Ferrothorn in Rain on a critical hit: 321-378 (91.1 - 107.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes
+2 252+ Atk Punching Glove Tera Water Urshifu-Rapid-Strike Surging Strikes (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Toxapex in Rain on a critical hit: 255-300 (83.8 - 98.6%) -- approx. 75% chance to OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes
+2 252+ Atk Punching Glove Tera Water Urshifu-Rapid-Strike Surging Strikes (3 hits) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Pelipper in Rain on a critical hit: 330-390 (102.1 - 120.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
nothing in the tier can switch into it safely except for waterpon which still dies to the 50/50 close combat.
+2 252+ Atk Punching Glove Urshifu-Rapid-Strike Surging Strikes (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Dondozo in Rain on a critical hit: 114-135 (22.6 - 26.7%) -- approx. 20.2% chance to 4HKO
+2 252+ Atk Urshifu-Rapid-Strike Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Dondozo: 142-168 (28.1 - 33.3%) -- 0% chance to 3HKO
the water catfish on his way to duct tape against ridiculous physical bs
ETA: this is not a defense of rapid strike in OU that thing is still pretty dumb
I'm gonna be honest I memory hole dondozo every single time I'm not teambuilding or facing off against him.
Bloodmoon didn't force anyone to run Blissey, people started running Blissey more because Gliscor and Clefable being introduced was a huge buff to stall. Blissey is not a hard counter to Bloodmoon at all, it's the only Pokémon stall has that does not insta lose, but Blissey still has to win a calm mind war, waste a bunch of softboileds, and never be crit. Stall runs Blissey with or without Bloodmoon. Bloodmoon had no impact on Blissey usage and Blissey doesn't even reliably beat it, this is misinformation
"Very rarely Glimmora" except for in 11% of all games and actively featured on one of the current best and most spammed HO Teams. Samurott is also incredible as always throughout games and smokes Deo-S. And does it really matter what particular focus sash Mon is vomiting up hazards and dying turn 3? Deoxys is a good lead but nothing about it is actually broken, stop suggesting banning non broken mons just for "diversity" (which btw we have one of the most diverse OUs ever and you're complaining about 3 great leads for a playstyle that isn't even that amazing right now) this is honestly ridiculous
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Honestly, the only Uber mons I think would be worth a look rn for a drop are Zamazenta Crowned and Ogerpon Hearthflame. Also to a much smaller extent Urshifu Rapid.
I won’t take too much time to talk about Zamazenta Crowned: we all know and remember how it works. It was a close call for an unban at the start of DLC2, far closer than any of the other unban targets. I feel like once the meta is in a truly stable place, we should consider revisiting it. Unlike most of the other mons we handled, Tera was little to no factor in its ban, so whether Tera is acted on or not it’s on the table. It always felt to me as a symptom of its meta and not the root problem of it. Yeah, it was dumb in an HO hellhole that was Home before the bans. But that was due to Magearna, Chien Pao, and Urshifu making running any fat team really really hard. Zamazenta feasted on that meta. Nowadays, we have seen that regular Zamazenta is fine for the meta: if anything it’s healthy as heck for it. Zam C in comparison is more one dimensional and is pigeon holed into IDBP. It’s damn good at it, but I’d love to give it a second look in a meta that is a lot more balance heavy.
Ogerpon Hearthflame is a spicier take, I know. But the defensive profile of the tier has shifted enough where I feel it could be fine. We have a surplus of dragons and new mons that would be able to handle its offensive sets better than we could in DLC1. The big factor that broke it in the past was how easily it made progress and muscles through teams due to how hard it was to resist its coverage. I feel like with how the tier has shifted with mons like Gouging Fire Archaludon and Raging Bolt here, it’s not as hard to see it settling in ok. It also helps that it still has the issues it did have, namely its hazard weakness. This might be a hot take, but I’d rather look into it than Ape at least. It’s not at the level of Zamazenta crowned, but it’s imo worth discussing.
This doesn’t mean either of these should be a priority right now. I don’t think we should look into new drops until we get to a meta where people are a bit more comfortable. We are close right now I feel, but it’s not the time. Maybe if there was overwhelming demand for one of the two and a suspect test happened, sure. But right now I doubt that’s in the cards.
I won’t take too much time to talk about Zamazenta Crowned: we all know and remember how it works. It was a close call for an unban at the start of DLC2, far closer than any of the other unban targets. I feel like once the meta is in a truly stable place, we should consider revisiting it. Unlike most of the other mons we handled, Tera was little to no factor in its ban, so whether Tera is acted on or not it’s on the table. It always felt to me as a symptom of its meta and not the root problem of it. Yeah, it was dumb in an HO hellhole that was Home before the bans. But that was due to Magearna, Chien Pao, and Urshifu making running any fat team really really hard. Zamazenta feasted on that meta. Nowadays, we have seen that regular Zamazenta is fine for the meta: if anything it’s healthy as heck for it. Zam C in comparison is more one dimensional and is pigeon holed into IDBP. It’s damn good at it, but I’d love to give it a second look in a meta that is a lot more balance heavy.
Ogerpon Hearthflame is a spicier take, I know. But the defensive profile of the tier has shifted enough where I feel it could be fine. We have a surplus of dragons and new mons that would be able to handle its offensive sets better than we could in DLC1. The big factor that broke it in the past was how easily it made progress and muscles through teams due to how hard it was to resist its coverage. I feel like with how the tier has shifted with mons like Gouging Fire Archaludon and Raging Bolt here, it’s not as hard to see it settling in ok. It also helps that it still has the issues it did have, namely its hazard weakness. This might be a hot take, but I’d rather look into it than Ape at least. It’s not at the level of Zamazenta crowned, but it’s imo worth discussing.
This doesn’t mean either of these should be a priority right now. I don’t think we should look into new drops until we get to a meta where people are a bit more comfortable. We are close right now I feel, but it’s not the time. Maybe if there was overwhelming demand for one of the two and a suspect test happened, sure. But right now I doubt that’s in the cards.
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Archaludon makes urshifu afraid to use its signature move, which turns body press into a 1hko. Close combat is strong but we have a million SD + cc users. Thunder clap, dragonite, grassy glide. In general urshifu is the most likely to be ok in OU.
HUH?
+3 252 Def Archaludon Body Press vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Urshifu-Rapid-Strike: 217-256 (63.6 - 75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Urshifu-Rapid-Strike Close Combat vs. 200 HP / 0 Def Archaludon: 344-408 (92.7 - 109.9%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO: Roll to kill with no boosts
+2 252+ Atk Punching Glove Urshifu-Rapid-Strike Surging Strikes (3 hits) vs. 200 HP / 0 Def Stamina Archaludon on a critical hit: 130-156 (35 - 42%) -- approx. 3HKO
It switches in, takes 35%.
+2 252+ Atk Urshifu-Rapid-Strike Close Combat vs. +3 200 HP / 0 Def Archaludon: 276-326 (74.3 - 87.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
WOW, IT KOs EVEN WITH ARCH AT +3
+2 252+ Atk Punching Glove Urshifu-Rapid-Strike Surging Strikes (3 hits) vs. 200 HP / 0 Def Stamina Archaludon on a critical hit: 130-156 (35 - 42%) -- approx. 3HKO
It switches in, takes 35%.
+2 252+ Atk Urshifu-Rapid-Strike Close Combat vs. +3 200 HP / 0 Def Archaludon: 276-326 (74.3 - 87.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
WOW, IT KOs EVEN WITH ARCH AT +3
+2 252+ Atk Choice Band Urshifu-Rapid-Strike Surging Strikes (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Stamina Archaludon in Rain on a critical hit: 220-260 (57.2 - 67.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
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