Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4

[658Greninja]

Can someone explain how to stop Volcarona? No, I am not using unaware. What is different about this mon to make suddenly not broken? It just Teras out of its weakness and is at +2/+2/+2 in the blink of an eye.

I tend to run Yawn on Gking which forces Volc out and it could tank 1 or 2 hits. You could also run a team composition of Heatran + Rilla which covers the Tera Ground/Water Volc. Molt with Brave Bird is good at checking most Volc sets minus Tera Water. If it doesn’t Tera, any bulky fire type or bulky water like Gfire can work. If not Tera Ground, Pult could land a T-Wave to end a sweep, or if you’re Banded, just kill it. Moon beats any variants lacking Bug Buzz, and even then you can just Tera Flying and click DD. Dnite is the best Volc check you could find, it fears nothing. SpD Gliscor can Toxic it and eat a +1 hit, so you could put it in range of say, Gambit Sucker. Ting-Lu can live a +1 Bug Buzz and phaze it out of a premature sweep. You could also bait it with T-Wave Gholdengo since Volc will try to find setup opportunities on that.

 

[Just A Shroom God]

choice scarf spidops has faster priority in first impression which it has super effective stab on, solid bulk to switch in with hp investment and can mess with switch ins because it paid the stakeout tax and its large 79 attack stat allows it clean up post game after taking out its target

choice band deoxys has found its kryptonite

An opportunity to post a lokix calc?????

252+ Atk Choice Band Lokix First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Normal Deoxys-Speed: 223-264 (92.5 - 109.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes

252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Normal Deoxys-Speed Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lokix: 213-252 (75.2 - 89%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I WAS JUST HIT BY PECHA BERRY TRICK GHOLDENGO oh my fucking god I've been completely bamboozled my poor gliscor MY POOR GLISCOR

GLISCOR'S PAIN CAUSES ME JOY

 

[YubelVT]

Can someone explain how to stop Volcarona? No, I am not using unaware. What is different about this mon to make suddenly not broken? It just Teras out of its weakness and is at +2/+2/+2 in the blink of an eye.

So I get why you don't want to use an unaware mon, as most of them are super limited in what you can put them on, but please use skeledirge I'm begging you. Alternatively, if you don't want to be normal, rillaboom + heatran covers all volcarona teras you'll expect to see in a game (listen, if someone tera flying's their volcarona they deserve to win at that point). Kingambit can also revenge kill with The Button™ if you're willing to commit to mindgames. Volcarona is a volatile pokemon but it's not unbeatable

Hmm true. Would Scizor work since it doesn't have to worry about Agility and Choice Scarf sets that pop up?

I mean scizor could work but I would try many other suggestions first. Scizor just doesn't hit hard enough anymore to justify it being used to check one set on one pokemon that could very realistically be a different set it doesn't beat.

 

[CobsonYaoi]

I mean scizor could work but I would try many other suggestions first. Scizor just doesn't hit hard enough anymore to justify it being used to check one set on one pokemon that could very realistically be a different set it doesn't beat.

I was just thinking that Bullet Punch/ Superpower/ Knock Off/ Swords Dance would be good enough against mons like Iron Valiant, Iron Boulder, Kingambit, and Gholdengo.

 

[BobbyHill]

Is anyone else having a lot of trouble against Lati? I feel like it can just come in over and over as your encore user gets worn down and even if you use a bulkier one like clef it will eventually break free and click stored power.
I doubt it would ever be banned, but I hate that thing lol. It’s the epitome of a match up fish and seems to me like it doesn’t add any benefit to the tier.

 

[YubelVT]

Is anyone else having a lot of trouble against Lati? I feel like it can just come in over and over as your encore user gets worn down and even if you use a bulkier one like clef it will eventually break free and click stored power.
I doubt it would ever be banned but I fucking hate that thing. it’s the epitome of a match up fish and seems to me like it adds any benefit to the tier.

Ok so I think that your team just might be weak to stored power lati sets, which isn't something that you should feel too bad about, but there is one thing I really like doing to setup pokemon, that's right YOU KNOW IT

it's the trick band deo-s

Morkal's set is probably better because it actually uses the band's power boost, but consider, Psycho Boost

Deoxys-Speed @ Choice Band/Choice Specs
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Psycho Boost
- Knock Off/Taunt/Teleport/Thunder Wave
- Trick
- Spikes/Stealth Rock

Ima be real this ev spread was auto generated by showdown so idk how relevant the bulk is to surviving hits (I'm too lazy to calc) BUT, tricking a band onto something like clefable or setup latias will cripple them. Band is the least useful on the most pokemon so that's why I choose it, but you can definitely run specs here too if you want Psycho Boost to hit even harder. Knock Off is just a good move in general but if you don't want to risk unlocking your trick victim you can run taunt, teleport, or thunder wave (or anything I guess lmao) to just be a nuisance. This set probably isn't viable, but it is something fun and that's more important to me (but also I really like winning so I'm susceptible to getting salty over this children's video game).

I was just thinking that Bullet Punch/ Superpower/ Knock Off/ Swords Dance would be good enough against mons like Iron Valiant, Iron Boulder, Kingambit, and Gholdengo.

Scizor gets close combat now you can run a good fighting move if you want to run the Anti-Screens Guy™ in a non-screens meta

 

[BobbyHill]

Ok so I think that your team just might be weak to stored power lati sets, which isn't something that you should feel too bad about, but there is one thing I really like doing to setup pokemon, that's right YOU KNOW IT

it's the trick band deo-s

Morkal's set is probably better because it actually uses the band's power boost, but consider, Psycho Boost

Deoxys-Speed @ Choice Band/Choice Specs
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Psycho Boost
- Knock Off/Taunt/Teleport/Thunder Wave
- Trick
- Spikes/Stealth Rock

Ima be real this ev spread was auto generated by showdown so idk how relevant the bulk is to surviving hits (I'm too lazy to calc) BUT, tricking a band onto something like clefable or setup latias will cripple them. Band is the least useful on the most pokemon so that's why I choose it, but you can definitely run specs here too if you want Psycho Boost to hit even harder. Knock Off is just a good move in general but if you don't want to risk unlocking your trick victim you can run taunt, teleport, or thunder wave (or anything I guess lmao) to just be a nuisance. This set probably isn't viable, but it is something fun and that's more important to me (but also I really like winning so I'm susceptible to getting salty over this children's video game).


Scizor gets close combat now you can run a good fighting move if you want to run the Anti-Screens Guy™ in a non-screens meta

yeah I’ve used trick/unaware mons to varying success! I’m not just using one team, it’s still a very stressful Mon to face lol. I’ve been using Rotom for trick but it may be too telegraphed.

Im confused how Scizor getting CC makes it anti screens?

 

[YubelVT]

Im confused how Scizor getting CC makes it anti screens?

Scizor is the anti screens guy because it forces one of two scenarios:
A. Zero screens (good for you)
B. Forcing tera on turn 1 (amazing for you)
Close Combat isn't why Scizor is the Anti-Screens Guy™ because that's entirely due to Bullet Punch, but it's a better move than Superpower and that's the point I was making.

I guess they could also just switch out but it's kinda hard in general to switch into CB Scizor Bullet Punch, moreso on screens teams because of how frail their threats are. Either way all 3 scenarios are objectively good for you, you could even predict the triple switch back into grimmsnarl with another bullet punch if you wanted to get real feisty

 

[Fusion Flare]

What's the best mon to use to deal with Enamorus? With Moonblast + Earth Power + Stellar Blast + Mystical Fire it hits everything pretty fuckin' hard, especially when it gets a free SpA boost everytime it uses Stellar Blast.

Galarian Slowking is a pretty good check. Twaves it, can eat up Earth Powers and Tera Blasts, and super effective Sludge Bombs are also useful.

 

[NotDaProGamer]

Thankfully they didn't get to poison anyone else. I was still screaming tho. Don't ever really check that LTT thing so now I might start to.

do check LTT since I won the previous one :)

What's the best mon to use to deal with Enamorus? With Moonblast + Earth Power + Stellar Blast + Mystical Fire it hits everything pretty fuckin' hard, especially when it gets a free SpA boost everytime it uses Stellar Blast.

bro called &

 

[RaikouLover]

Raging Bolt, Gouging Fire, Heatran, Rockpon, Waterpon, Dragonite, etc. all good ways of controlling it. Roaring Moon, Walking Wake, Rillaboom, Serprior, Ting Lu, and Clefable, Clodsire, Dondozo, and Skeledrige are are fairly conditional based on the tera-type.

Not a problem or anything…

The obligatorily late Kingambit as well. Volcarona does as it always has, steal the matchup based on its tera-type and movepool; but it is not consistent enough to always get several QD boosts, and even when it does it can be impeded.

Kingambit is not beating morning sun versions of Volcarona.

Additionally, if at this point you're unwilling to consider any of four viable pokemon with Unaware when teambuilding, it's not a meta problem. It's a you problem.

So if I don’t want to run dogshit Clodsire, Dondozo, Skeleridge, or Clefable (magic guard is better) I have a problem?

You’ve basically outlined why Volcarona is problematic. It’s a quick L if your team comp does not check that particular Tera type. Every non-unaware Pokémon you listed loses to some form of Volcarona.

 

[NotDaProGamer]

So if I don’t want to run dogshit Clodsire, Dondozo, Skeleridge, or Clefable (magic guard is better) I have a problem?
You’ve basically outlined why Volcarona is problematic. It’s a quick L if your team comp does not check that particular Tera type. Every non-unaware Pokémon you listed loses to some form of Volcarona.

tera point is reasonable, but CLODSIRE, DOZO AND SKELEDIRGE ARENT DOGSHIT. GO AND LOOK AT THE OU USAGE STATS?

 

[Ehmcee]

latias is UUBL bro, its not good and you losing to a team with it is a total L+skill issue, it didn’t get enough usage for ou brother


plus with the assault vest item, grumpig can wall latias and use encore to force it into calm mind or an unboosted draining kiss

This is a pretty unproductive reply, diminishing their experience just because a Pokemon "is not OU lmao" is unfunny at best, and just mean at worst.
There's a reason latias got banned from UU, and it's because it's very very good, even though it didn't reach the usage milestone.

A mon not having enough usage for OU has no bearing on wether or not it's actually good in an OU environment, Cresselia had an amazing niche in the DLC2 metagame, for extremely similar reasons to Latias, which Latias now generally does even better due to far better special attack and speed, and a more serviceable defensive tera out of an already very good defensive typing.

Is anyone else having a lot of trouble against Lati? I feel like it can just come in over and over as your encore user gets worn down and even if you use a bulkier one like clef it will eventually break free and click stored power.
I doubt it would ever be banned, but I hate that thing lol. It’s the epitome of a match up fish and seems to me like it doesn’t add any benefit to the tier.

Latias is definitely a very scary mon in the builder rn, here are a few mons I've personally used to deal with it quite well:

AV with Moonblast + Psychic Noise, deals with both out of tera and once they've tera Poisoned, stopping their recover, can Flip Turn to a mon that can revenge as well.

Encore , faster Encore is super detrimental to Latias's gameplan, you can put it at a full stop and even try to setup on your own if you want.

extremely good pokemon rn, and can 2hko even bulky Lati after hazards, spec some spdef and you can even tank a +1 Aura Sphere from full health:

252 Atk Protean Meowscarada Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tera Poison Latias: 192-228 (52.7 - 62.6%) -- approx. 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

+1 0 SpA Tera Poison Latias Aura Sphere vs. 0 HP / 8 SpD Meowscarada: 248-292 (84.6 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

already a very good mon for hazards setting, it already somewhat checks latias, while also setting up hazards in the process. If you're extremely scared of getting broken through anyway, you can run AV.

Generally, most dark types do very well into Latias, because it tends to run uninvested special attack, and needs at least two CM boosts before it's able to get going.

 

[RaikouLover]

tera point is reasonable, but CLODSIRE, DOZO AND SKELEDIRGE ARENT DOGSHIT. GO AND LOOK AT THE OU USAGE STATS?

What offensive or offensive-leaning balance archetypes comps can fit them? Or have we reached the point where unaware offense is like the old Chansey offenses of ancient gens?

 

[YubelVT]

tera point is reasonable, but CLODSIRE, DOZO AND SKELEDIRGE ARENT DOGSHIT. GO AND LOOK AT THE OU USAGE STATS?

clod has kinda fallen off and dozo isn't exactly the most splashable pokemon in the world. raikou is being unreasonable about dirge tho it does kinda beat basically all physical attackers in every tier and can be EV'd to beat special attackers instead (i.e. an effectively +0 volcarona lmao)

What offensive or offensive-leaning balance archetypes comps can fit them?

brother just use skeledirge it's a snowball wall that is good for giving offensive teams a defensive backbone they otherwise wouldn't have

 

[NotDaProGamer]

What offensive or offensive-leaning balance archetypes comps can fit them?

yeah, only usable on defence is not dogshit though mate. theres a difference.

clod has kinda fallen off and dozo isn't exactly the most splashable pokemon in the world. raikou is being unreasonable about dirge tho it does kinda beat basically all physical attackers in every tier and can be EV'd to beat special attackers instead (i.e. an effectively +0 volcarona lmao)

brother just use skeledirge it's a snowball wall that is good for giving offensive teams a defensive backbone they otherwise wouldn't have

brother why is clod back in OU then? dirge good, dozo is good on balance as a wincon, i admit clefable is better with mguard.

 

[arnimacarni]

Not a problem or anything…



Kingambit is not beating morning sun versions of Volcarona.



So if I don’t want to run dogshit Clodsire, Dondozo, Skeleridge, or Clefable (magic guard is better) I have a problem?

You’ve basically outlined why Volcarona is problematic. It’s a quick L if your team comp does not check that particular Tera type. Every non-unaware Pokémon you listed loses to some form of Volcarona.

Man you've made it abundantly clear that you distaste the way things are handled and you distaste Tera, we get your point. Your point has been gotten for the last god knows how many months. Could you PLEASE move along? All you bring to this thread is toxicity and grumpiness, this metagame is clearly not meant for you and there are countless metas in PS for you to play. And in the off chance that you might want to enlighten us why Tera is bad and it should be banned, bring solid arguments. You've made your point, it's been rebutted, bring a counter-counter-argument or let's leave it at "Agree to disagree". The way you've been talking in this thread is ridiculously entitled and you don't deserve the meta you want just because you want it. Vote on the surveys and stay respectful of those who like the meta.

 

[YubelVT]

yeah, only usable on defence is not dogshit though mate. theres a difference.

brother why is clod back in OU then? dirge good, dozo is good on balance as a wincon, i admit clefable is better with mguard.

fallen off doesn't necessarily mean bad, it just means way less good than it used to be, which clodsire is. Unaware Clefable is one of my least favorite pokemon to see ever because it's always a crit-me-not set and those just aren't very fun


also

brother why is clod back in OU then?

counterpoint:

 

[MindofLights]

Is anyone else having a lot of trouble against Lati? I feel like it can just come in over and over as your encore user gets worn down and even if you use a bulkier one like clef it will eventually break free and click stored power.
I doubt it would ever be banned, but I hate that thing lol. It’s the epitome of a match up fish and seems to me like it doesn’t add any benefit to the tier.

So I've been using latios with tera steel cm/stored power/recover/coverage(usually surf) 252spe/252spatt and it is a very effective matchup fish around the 1700s.

Idea behind the set is that it beats or helps pressure every unaware user (i do not like you skeledirge, hence the surf), while ALSO stuffing kyurem and gliscor as a steel immune to ground. That levitating steel that we all love bronzong for being? Latios can do it well too. You need steel over poison for the kyurem matchup

It beats sooo many common balance and stall mons after using tera steel. glowking, gholdengo, clef, gliscor, kyurem, clodsire, etc

But even then, its a single Twave from being near useless and a waste of tera. Or in the case of gholdengo/clef/glowking, if they get a trick and give you a scarf you are useless. Dark types are also a pain in the ass. If you are running aura sphere as coverage thats alleviated, but not completely. Ting lu can still tank a hit at +2 and phase you out, and if you are running anything other than aura sphere for coverage there is gonna be a dark type in the tier that resists it.

And then there is just pokemon that are faster and hit hard on the physical side, there are tons. you can sometimes 1v1 a single fast mon by using a timely tera, but most teams have 2 and often you have to tera to get your turns to set up. (meowscarada starting to run low kick is something ive been annoyed by)

The first thing I think of when I think of mons that give lati trouble its gholdengo. you HAVE to scout for twave, and if it has it, then you cant sweep til money man is gone. Second is ting lu with whirlwind. I really hate using trick as a primary option for set up sweepers, its super inconsistent as a 1 time thing. Encore like mentioned is a great option. You can also go scorched earth and give an unaware mon tera dark.

 

[RaikouLover]

yeah, only usable on defence is not dogshit though mate. theres a difference.

I mean fair. But if we are discussing metagame state, we consider healthy when most archetypes can thrive. Outside of HO and heavy fat it seems heavily matchup based. A lot of threats, varying sets and Teras. Volcarona is an example of the polarization. I’ve been swept by Volcaronas of all viable Tera types, but it’s dependent on the Tera type vs the team type. Annoying to say the least.

 

[Ehmcee]

What offensive or offensive-leaning balance archetypes comps can fit them? Or have we reached the point where unaware offense is like the old Chansey offenses of ancient gens?

Tbh, if you're looking for offensive comps that beat out Volcarona, Pretty much every weather gives it a super hard time.

Sun's got mons like Gouging Fire which should always beat it 1v1, while te added Proto boost also makes Raging Bolt beat it pretty hard.

Rain's got the usual offenders, Barraskewda beats out every Volcarona that isn't Tera Water on it's own, and the electric types or AV Archaludon should be able to deal with it afterwards.

Sand is obviously more niche, but TTar spits on Volcarona, can run Twave or Dragon Tail to fuck with it extra hard.

 

[BobbyHill]

This is a pretty unproductive reply, diminishing their experience just because a Pokemon "is not OU lmao" is unfunny at best, and just mean at worst.
There's a reason latias got banned from UU, and it's because it's very very good, even though it didn't reach the usage milestone.

A mon not having enough usage for OU has no bearing on wether or not it's actually good in an OU environment, Cresselia had an amazing niche in the DLC2 metagame, for extremely similar reasons to Latias, which Latias now generally does even better due to far better special attack and speed, and a more serviceable defensive tera out of an already very good defensive typing.



Latias is definitely a very scary mon in the builder rn, here are a few mons I've personally used to deal with it quite well:

AV with Moonblast + Psychic Noise, deals with both out of tera and once they've tera Poisoned, stopping their recover, can Flip Turn to a mon that can revenge as well.

Encore , faster Encore is super detrimental to Latias's gameplan, you can put it at a full stop and even try to setup on your own if you want.

extremely good pokemon rn, and can 2hko even bulky Lati after hazards, spec some spdef and you can even tank a +1 Aura Sphere from full health:

252 Atk Protean Meowscarada Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tera Poison Latias: 192-228 (52.7 - 62.6%) -- approx. 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

+1 0 SpA Tera Poison Latias Aura Sphere vs. 0 HP / 8 SpD Meowscarada: 248-292 (84.6 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

already a very good mon for hazards setting, it already somewhat checks latias, while also setting up hazards in the process. If you're extremely scared of getting broken through anyway, you can run AV.

Generally, most dark types do very well into Latias, because it tends to run uninvested special attack, and needs at least two CM boosts before it's able to get going.

thanks I appreciate the reply! That guy was trolling lol, 2 UUBL mons have been banned this gen already lol.

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

So if I don’t want to run dogshit Clodsire, Dondozo, Skeleridge, or Clefable (magic guard is better) I have a problem?

if you don't want to run one of the four viable unaware users that can, collectively, fit on most team styles that aren't hyper-offensive (yes, regular offense can slot in dirge), you can slot on iron boulder to outspeed it at +1 and cleave it. or gambit to play sucker mindgames with it. or dragonite to espeed it and tank anything it can try to dish out. or gouging fire to just murder it. or rillaboom for tera ground sets. or roaring moon for non-bug-buzz sets. or an encore/taunt/trick choice mon to stop the setup before it starts. or weather teams in general. or any combination of two or more of these very viable options. it's not 2023 anymore, volc has answers now
man this aged poorly

 

[YubelVT]

if you don't want to run one of the four viable unaware users that can, collectively, fit on most team styles that aren't hyper-offensive, you can slot on iron boulder to outspeed it at +1 and cleave it. or gambit to play sucker mindgames with it. or dragonite to espeed it and tank anything it can try to dish out. or gouging fire to just murder it. or rillaboom for tera ground sets. or roaring moon for non-bug-buzz sets. or an encore/taunt/trick choice mon to stop the setup before it starts. or any combination of two or more of these very viable options. it's not 2023 anymore, volc has answers now

tbcf about clef I'm pretty sure unaware clef is like exclusive to hard stall or is a build around for shitty crit-me-not sets that I hate. Skeledirge is definitely the most splashable of the unaware users, you could also play quagsire and lose to tera grass volcarona :3

 

[NotDaProGamer]

tbcf about clef I'm pretty sure unaware clef is like exclusive to hard stall or is a build around for shitty crit-me-not sets that I hate. Skeledirge is definitely the most splashable of the unaware users, you could also play quagsire and lose to tera grass volcarona :3

tbf you can just run quag+heatran and kinda wall it no matter what tera, I think RaikouLover will like something which doesn't care about tera.