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No idea who you are but your signature bothered me a lot after looking at it (very criminal offense) so i arranged the minior in a way they're (mostly) in sync with eachother to form a satisfying effect
this guy thinks everything's a game->
^ this one also wants to be different for attention
It seems that they have different speeds so it breaks after a while though. Saddening. Truly no harmony to be found in this universe
Couldn't make it before the thread got closed, so I'll say it here:
Not sure if there's OU precedent, but I vaguely remember there being a multi-tier discussion about a mon at some point of the Sw/Sh meta where it got suspected in a tier while being on a lower tier by usage. Was trying to find the Suspect thread on the Policy Review subforum for confirmation, but couldn't find it. If memory serves me right, I think it was Gengar in UU while it was RU by usage, and it got banned, but could be misremembering.
After Galarian Slowking released from Pokemon Home, Johtoian Slowking was left out of the job. G-King’s superior typing and movepool were just better for the metagame overall. However since the tier has gone through several shifts and changes, especially in DLC2, I think it is time to have this discussion. Glowking is better, but like it did in SS OU, could it carve out a niche over its slow brethren? Let’s see what it has to offer?
Scald
Scald was a stupid yee yee ass move from Gen 5-8. Even Game Freak acknowledged this, twice. Nerfing burns so they don’t outdamage lefties recovery, and the biggest one, hugely limiting the distribution of it. Only 22 fully evolved mons could learn it now. Toxapex and Gastro were hit hard by losing access to it. It looked like the Slowtwins were gonna be next considering they were the biggest bulky waters along with Pex in the last gen, but by a divine act of mercy, they kept it.
This is the first main advantage of OGking. Just cause Scald has less distribution doesn’t make it any worse of a move. Its still a STAB base 80 power move with a 30% burn chance, and unlike Mola the other water type pivot, its coming off of a respectable 100 SpA stat. With how common physical attackers like Gambit, Zama, Tusk, and Boulder are, burns are more crippling than poison or para. This also frees up a moveslot for OGking. T-Wave for secondary status, or the new Psychic Noise to deny healing. Gking can run into 4mss due to Sludge Bomb not being the greatest STAB option to solely rely on. Thus it will need something like Toxic, T-Wave, Ice Beam, Flamethrower, or Surf. Johto King being able to offer this sort of utility in one is valuable. Scald is also huge for damaging Gliscor as it doesn’t need to slot in Ice Beam to do any big damage.
There are two instances where this becomes relevant. Rain, and Walking Wake under Sun. Because of Tera, Barra and Wake can be difficult to answer under their respective weather conditions, even with a bulky resist. To counteract this, teams will often run Gking with a bulky water resist, or Tera their Gking. However these take up resources, whether through 2 teamslots or burning a Tera. J-King can do this without expending resources. Though it is 2HKOd by Barra in Rain, being able to live a hit is crucial for resetting the weather. Due to the introduction of Archaludon and the paradox doggos, Rain and Sun respectively have become incredibly popular on ladder. Due to OGking’s water and fire resistance, it could reset the weather easier than Gking.
244 SpA Choice Specs Tera Water Walking Wake Hydro Steam vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking in Sun: 128-151 (32.5 - 38.4%) -- 98.2% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Water Barraskewda Liquidation vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Slowking in Rain: 262-309 (66.6 - 78.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Not having a weakness to EQ from the six ground types in OU is a big advantage over Gking. While it isn’t a check to Drill or offensive Tusk, not being immediately threatened out by EQ lets Johtoking more freely use FS while being able to threaten said Ground types with Scald (minus Clod lol). Ting-Lu is cited as a bad mu for Gking. Not only does it block FS, but it can use Gking as an opportunity to get up hazards, click Ruination, Whirlwind, or EQ it for big damage.
252 Atk Great Tusk Headlong Rush vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Slowking: 235-277 (59.7 - 70.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Slowking: 123-145 (31.2 - 36.8%) -- 77.4% chance to 3HKO
0 Atk Ting-Lu Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Slowking: 139-165 (35.3 - 41.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Due to resisting Psychic, Johtoking can properly check NP Deo-S and T-Wave it in return. With 52 defense EVs, Johtoking could live a +2 Mighty Cleave and fish for a Scald burn in a pinch. Having a more direct way to threaten Boulder is also worth nothing. Similarly, Johtoking could fish for Scald burns against Dragonite or other physical sweepers while not being weak to EQ. Tran lost Toxic, meaning Classic Slowking could actually properly check it.
+1 252+ Atk Tera Normal Dragonite Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 52 Def Slowking: 207-244 (52.6 - 62%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Iron Boulder Mighty Cleave vs. 248 HP / 52 Def Slowking: 331-390 (84.2 - 99.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-Speed Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 208+ SpD Slowking: 255-302 (64.8 - 76.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Now let’s head back to Galar and analyze Gking’s advantages.
Kyurem is a goofy ahh mfer, so playing around it both offensively and defensively is a pain in the ass. Glowking’s neutrality to Freeze Dry is big for allowing defensive teams to pivot around Specs Kyu. Running regular Slowking over Glowking may result in you having to use Volc alongside it, but it isn’t the end of the world since Volc is a fantastic mon to run. The point still stands, this is one of the big reasons why Gking is still better than regular Slowking. Playing around Kyu is just that important in the current meta.
Grass is another big type you should look out for, especially Serp who could snowball out of control, even without Tera. Being able to pivot into Serp and bring in a Specs Pult or Weavile to scare it out could be a difference maker. Gking is not gonna be checking Wogre, but being able to threaten it with Sludge Bomb could make Wogre’s SD attempts less feasible.
Raging Bolt could tear through your defensive cores, and sometimes you’re not gonna have a Ting-Lu or Clod. That is why Gking’s matchup into Rbolt is so vital. Being able to threaten with a Toxic or live a hit and pivot into an offensive threat is another reason why Glowking is such a splashable pick. Archaludon may not be an electric type, but it might as well be with the fact it abuses rain extremely well with Electro Shot. Being able to pivot into it and cripple with T-Wave makes it easier to play around it in Rain.
While regular Slowking doesn’t mind Toxic too much, Glowking simply has the advantage of being straight up immune to it, and doesn’t give a fuck about weak Surfs. Garg is a huge one, not loving 1/4th of your health is a dealbreaker in the matchup in comparison to its Johto counterpart. While not the ultimate Valiant check (+2 Knock one shots it), immediately threatening it with Sludge Bomb or checking CM sets helps make playing around it easier.
Glowking is better than Johtoking, this isn’t a discussion on who’s the best, but OGking offers its own set of unique advantages over it.
It is a bulky SpD water without needing to Tera, it has a better matchup into the merit of ground types in the tier. Scald makes it even less passive than the already annoying Gking, securing burns on targets that often would try to switch in on Glowking like Gambit, Weavile, and Samu-H. Johtoking sports a better matchup into NP Deo-S which can be annoying for bulkier teams to check.
Appreciate the post. However, I must point out that thanks to Tera’s adaptability boost, even special weather abusers such as Walking Wake, Keldeo, and Volcanion can in fact blow right by Slowking now. Especially true if they use a Modest nature. And unfortunately for Slowking, he can’t Tera out of it. Slowking simple doesn’t wall what it used to anymore. Modest is admittedly rare, but myself and a couple others have caught on:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Protosynthesis Tera Water Walking Wake Hydro Steam vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking in Sun: 184-217 (46.8 - 55.2%) -- 69.5% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Water Walking Wake Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking in Rain: 194-229 (49.3 - 58.2%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Tera Water Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking in Rain: 181-214 (46 - 54.4%) -- 57.8% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Water Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking in Rain: 199-235 (50.6 - 59.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Water Volcanion Steam Eruption vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking in Rain: 201-237 (51.1 - 60.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
I'd unironically love to have this conversation as an intellectual exercise, but I don't think this thread can handle it and it's verboten right now anyway lol.
I'd unironically love to have this conversation as an intellectual exercise, but I don't think this thread can handle it and it's verboten right now anyway lol.
Alright since the views from the council page is locked and the policy review thread is up, I have some concerns involving some of the discussions amongst the policy reviewers. I'll list them as following.
1. The possibility of blanket banning sleep and just suspecting Darkrai don't feel like the best solutions since blanket banning sleep entirely seems like a bad idea due to the fact spore and yawn are pretty easy to prep for compared to inaccurate sleep moves, and that it would artificially nerf a lot of pokemon for no reason that really rely on the fairer sleep moves to function as well as they do. And suspecting Darkrai over the hypnosis lead set is a bad idea in and of itself because its not even its best set even if it is cheap and uncompetitive, as valiant can do the same thing and Darkrai itself isn't even broken. It is like not banning shed tail and only banning a mon or two when there are multiple pokemon abusing it even though one is better than every other one, even though the strat is uncompetitive in the exact type of way baton pass was.
2. The fact the council hasn't brought up anything about only banning inaccurate sleep moves concerns me. Because looking into the whole Valiant/Darkrai sleep stuff, in my opinion blanket banning sleep moves without 100% accuracy feels like the best possible solution to this whole sleep stuff, because the reason stuff like inaccurate sleep moves like Hypnosis/Sing/Grass Whistle/Dark Void (In past gens)/Sleep Powder are uncompetitive is for the same reason evasion moves and accuracy spamming moves are, because you simply cannot prep for RNG bullshit when you don't know its coming, where playing against yawn and spore is pretty easy in comparison. The fact this isn't even a possibility listed is concerning as it really does seem like the best solution from a Smogon tiering perspective.
Anyway, I hope these concerns are addressed and it would be appreciated if anyone on the council or anyone dealing with the policy review sees this and addresses this.
I'm sure other people share some of these concerns which is why I decided to post this and get out my own concerns as well over modifying the sleep clause.
This would be incredibly arbitrary and specified. BW OU already encountered a similar dynamic and banned all of the sleep moves, so if any blanket ban would be considered, it would not be arbitrary and it would be all-encompassing.
That’s not me saying this option will happen, but your post claiming it is the best option is incorrect.
This would be incredibly arbitrary and specified. BW OU already encountered a similar dynamic and banned all of the sleep moves, so if any blanket ban would be considered, it would not be arbitrary and it would be all-encompassing.
That’s not me saying this option will happen, but your post claiming it is the best option is incorrect.
Okay, that makes a bit more sense. I do think inaccurate sleep moves are the problematic ones though, and banning all sleep moves kind of hurts pokemon that rely on yawn and spore, which aren't even considered to be unfair as far as sleep moves go in a sleep clause environment
It may not be the best solution to be more specific like this as it could but should not set future precedent, but if something like that could be implemented under a new clause that bans status moves under 80 percent accuracy through a status clause could potentially be what it takes to solve this issue without hurting other pokemon through banning stuff like Yawn and Spore that are deemed to be fine by many people with sleep clause here. As Darkrai itself is not even broken, it is just doing uncompetitive stuff through inaccurate status moves so banning it doesn't feel like the right call either, as Darkrai isn't even broken outside of that and other pokemon like speed booster valiant could technically pull off something very similar, even if slightly less effective. A new clause to ban status moves under 80% accuracy feels like it might be the right call in order to stop these uncompetitive slot machine esque strategies.
Either way this feels like a situation where both of the 2 most popular answers don't feel like the right one to me looking in through a tiering perspective.
I am not sorry to say that it makes 0 sense to ban Sleep Powder and Hypnosis and leave Spore alone when Spore is objectively a much better move due to the 100% accuracy
I am not sorry to say that it makes 0 sense to ban Sleep Powder and Hypnosis and leave Spore alone when Spore is objectively a much better move due to the 100% accuracy
When something is 100% accurate, especially with sleep clause, its far easier to prep for it when you know its coming as a competitive player when it is guaranteed to work, as you can more easily devise counterplay to more accurate status moves like thunder wave, yawn and spore as examples. That is the problem with innaccurate status moves, you just don't know when you will be fucked over by them due to RNG bullshit, which is why people seem to really hate stuff like Hypnosis valiant and Hypnosis Sash lead Darkrai that just RNG fishes constantly. Other mons can do similar stuff in other tiers, like Venusaur being able to RNG fish for sleep through sleep powder under sun with Chlorophyll to bypass checks and counters. That is the problem with inaccurate sleep moves and status moves in general, they are impossible to prep for due to the fact that RNG is involved and that the person playing against them can never know if these moves will work or not when they are not 80% accuracy or higher, and its just not fun or competitive in the slightest to have to deal with a 1 in 4 or 60% chance to have your entire counterplay folded and you don't know when half the time.
That's my issue here, is that inaccurate status moves feel like the problem.
I'm enjoying this discourse but I also enjoy explaining my logic in thinking this way as well with everyone
ok, i'm going to dispel of this narrative that spore is somehow more balanced as a move than hypnosis and sleep powder by asking everyone to undertake a simple thought experiment:
imagine a world where all sleep moves were, just yesterday, suddenly replaced with spore on every pokemon that had them. would this result in a more competitive meta than the current one, or less?
and here's some more food for thought: the "inaccurate sleep moves are more banworthy" argument hinges on the fact that sleep clause mod exists in its current form. the argument everyone uses is "but what if you switch to your sleep absorber and the move misses, putting you in a bad position", which ignores the fact that sleep absorbers are not a thing in unmodded cartridge play. are you looking to get rid of most sleep moves but keep spore and abolish sleep clause mod? because that will lead to the most toxic, cheesy, awful meta anyone's ever seen. or are you trying to get rid of most sleep moves but keep spore and keep sleep clause mod? because that defeats the entire purpose of this discussion, which is that sleep clause mod is incompatible with tiering policy and unenforceable on cartridge and therefore should be replaced
ok, i'm going to dispel of this narrative that spore is somehow more balanced as a move than hypnosis and sleep powder by asking everyone to undertake a simple thought experiment:
imagine a world where all sleep moves were, just yesterday, suddenly replaced with spore on every pokemon that had them. would this result in a more competitive meta than the current one, or less?
Spore is completely unbalanced, and it definitely would be without sleep clause. Not arguing there, but i'm just explaining the problems with status moves in general below 80% accuracy and why they often lead to pretty uncompetitive strats compared to ones with more accuracy. Not saying spore isn't a broken move, but its limited by what it is on compared to moves like sleep powder/sing/hypnosis/grass whistle which all have very fast users in comparison or ways to easily boost their speed through abilities.
I'm thinking a full sleep ban might be the best solution here, but it would be cool if yawn didn't fall under that at least. Since Yawn is objectively the most fair sleep move as it takes two turns to activate.
I am not sorry to say that it makes 0 sense to ban Sleep Powder and Hypnosis and leave Spore alone when Spore is objectively a much better move due to the 100% accuracy
I don't support that option anymore, but as a former defender of it, I'd like to explain it a bit.
The point of that option is that Sleep is not inherently "broken" (as in, too strong, at least with the current Clause), but can be "uncompetitive" on strong and/or fast mons, which only get the inaccurate moves.
Whereas there's a very strong balancing effort from GF's part to balance out Spore users, Hypnosis/Sleep Powder/etc are "balanced" around being unreliable, which is naturally uncompetitive and akin to OHKO moves, which weren't banned because they were too good, but because they were too impactful for their random nature.
"Ban HypnoPowder, Forgive Spore" stance claims that Sleep under the current Sleep Clause is fine so long as the Sleep Inducers are few and controlled. It's not "Spore is fine", as much as "Spore is given to mons that make it be fine". Basically, HypnoPowder moves should not be banned because they're too good, but because they cross the line of "too random" for competitive play.
In any case, repeat that I currently support a full Sleep Moves Ban as I believe there have been already enough attempts at "balancing" sleep throughout the decades and if it's still causing problems, then it should just be banned altogether. It's Smogon's "Baton Pass 2: Drowsy Boogaloo" at this point, really.
I don't support that option anymore, but as a former defender of it, I'd like to explain it a bit.
The point of that option is that Sleep is not inherently "broken" (as in, too strong, at least with the current Clause), but can be "uncompetitive" on strong and/or fast mons, which only get the inaccurate moves.
Whereas there's a very strong balancing effort from GF's part to balance out Spore users, Hypnosis/Sleep Powder/etc are "balanced" around being unreliable, which is naturally uncompetitive and akin to OHKO moves, which weren't banned because they were too good, but because they were too impactful for their random nature.
"Ban HypnoPowder, Forgive Spore" stance claims that Sleep under the current Sleep Clause is fine so long as the Sleep Inducers are few and controlled. It's not "Spore is fine", as much as "Spore is given to mons that make it be fine". Basically, HypnoPowder moves should not be banned because they're too good, but because they cross the line of "too random" for competitive play.
In any case, repeat that I currently support a full Sleep Moves Ban as I believe there have been already enough attempts at "balancing" sleep throughout the decades and if it's still causing problems, then it should just be banned altogether. It's Smogon's "Baton Pass 2: Drowsy Boogaloo" at this point, really.
ok, i'm going to dispel of this narrative that spore is somehow more balanced as a move than hypnosis and sleep powder by asking everyone to undertake a simple thought experiment:
imagine a world where all sleep moves were, just yesterday, suddenly replaced with spore on every pokemon that had them. would this result in a more competitive meta than the current one, or less?
That's by far not a fair argument. Spore is clearly only distributed to slow mons and to grass mons. The fastest Spore user on paper is Toedscruel, which GF hindered by making it always move last (and afaik ability doesn't get disabled by NGas, so that goes to show the lengths they went).
Of course Darkrai and IVal would be broken with Spore, but the reality is a different one. The reality is that 40% of the time Hypnosis is a waste of a moveslot, and that's what we're dealing with. Sleep is unequivocally a strong strat which is hindered by its inconsistency and distribution BY DESIGN. Talking about it in a vacuum doesn't help us face the issue at hand.
I think there is a problem in the line of thinking that Hypnosis/Sleep Powder are the problems and not the mons. It’s basically saying that no matter the Pokemon these moves a broken/uncompetitive, which isn’t true. There’s a reason you don’t see/rarely see Butterfree, Hypno, Bronzong, or heck even Gengar in the tier. Even with these busted moves these Pokemon are largely unviable, and even if all they do is spam Sleep moves they rarely gain much from it. That’s why Darkrai, and to a lesser extent IVal, are brought up in these convos because they ARE largely unique in their ability to make substantial if not game winning progress if they hit a 60% accurate move.
I feel like if we’re humoring banning these moves just to keep one Pokemon in the tier we may as well just ban Rage Fist, Jet Punch, Freeze Dry, etc. cause a lot of those Pokemon would be perfectly healthy without certain moves in their arsenal.
The conversation about Sleep Mod Clause is not just about SV OU. It's not even about Gen 9, and it's definitely not just about Darkrai. It's about it in of itself.
People are taking a game mod that fundamentally breaks our principles in 99% of scenarios for granted. All of this talk about sleep and what it is, is fundamentally forgetting that our played experience is only created by something that shouldn't exist.
I think there is a problem in the line of thinking that Hypnosis/Sleep Powder are the problems and not the mons. It’s basically saying that no matter the Pokemon these moves a broken/uncompetitive, which isn’t true. There’s a reason you don’t see/rarely see Butterfree, Hypno, Bronzong, or heck even Gengar in the tier. Even with these busted moves these Pokemon are largely unviable, and even if all they do is spam Sleep moves they rarely gain much from it. That’s why Darkrai, and to a lesser extent IVal, are brought up in these convos because they ARE largely unique in their ability to make substantial if not game winning progress if they hit a 60% accurate move.
I feel like if we’re humoring banning these moves just to keep one Pokemon in the tier we may as well just ban Rage Fist, Jet Punch, Freeze Dry, etc. cause a lot of those Pokemon would be perfectly healthy without certain moves in their arsenal.
Again, the problem is not IF they're balanced with or without a move/mechanic, but HOW that move/mechanic makes them imbalanced.
Freeze Dry is the only move that you've mentioned that is widespread, and its 10% Freeze Chance is the only random and/or uncompetitive element of the lot. And Freeze has already been contentious on its own for being a "highly impactful, fully random mechanic" that is not talked about because the highest chance of causing it is 10%, and always as a secondary effect.
On top of that, Sleep is a mechanic that has a Clause, an entire game mod, that artificially nerfs it. As such, there's an admission at base that it's so inherently imbalanced that we can't have it on its "pure" state. Sleep is already "partially banned" through the Sleep Clause; if anything is causing a problem in regards to it, looking at it directly and not at its individual abusers and wondering "why is this the only mechanic we have "partially banned"?" makes at least as much sense as looking at each abuser.
Spore is completely unbalanced, and it definitely would be without sleep clause. Not arguing there, but i'm just explaining the problems with status moves in general below 80% accuracy and why they often lead to pretty uncompetitive strats compared to ones with more accuracy. Not saying spore isn't a broken move, but its limited by what it is on compared to moves like sleep powder/sing/hypnosis/grass whistle which all have very fast users in comparison or ways to easily boost their speed through abilities.
I'm thinking a full sleep ban might be the best solution here, but it would be cool if yawn didn't fall under that at least. Since Yawn is objectively the most fair sleep move as it takes two turns to activate.
i do somewhat agree on yawn. in my opinion, it's balanced as-is and should not be included in sleep moves clause under the strict definition of the rule, because it technically doesn't directly inflict sleep. it inflicts a volatile status condition that happens to eventually turn into sleep, and the vast majority of the time it doesn't do that. calling it a sleep move is like calling perish song an ohko move because it inflicts a volatile status condition that eventually ohkos you. but the problem is, we'd be removing sleep clause mod, which means that someone could do some dumb bullshit like spam yawn and force the opponent to keep switching out without ever being able to make a move for risk of falling asleep. this is technically already a thing people can do, but the difference is that without sleep clause they can't sacrifice a mon to stop it, which makes the strategy a lot more toxic. so i can see the logic in lumping in yawn with sleep moves for the purpose of the clause, even though i don't entirely agree with it
i do somewhat agree on yawn. in my opinion, it's balanced as-is and should not be included in sleep moves clause under the strict definition of the rule, because it technically doesn't directly inflict sleep. it inflicts a volatile status condition that happens to eventually turn into sleep, and the vast majority of the time it doesn't do that. calling it a sleep move is like calling perish song an ohko move because it inflicts a volatile status condition that eventually ohkos you. but the problem is, we'd be removing sleep clause mod, which means that someone could do some dumb bullshit like spam yawn and force the opponent to keep switching out without ever being able to make a move for risk of falling asleep. this is technically already a thing people can do, but the difference is that without sleep clause they can't sacrifice a mon to stop it, which makes the strategy a lot more toxic. so i can see the logic in lumping in yawn with sleep moves for the purpose of the clause, even though i don't entirely agree with it
This is actually a really interesting way of looking at it which appears, at least to me, just factually true. It seems like a reasonable way to exclude Yawn, though it sounds like a complex action to a layman without the Drowsy/Perish Song analogy.
I'm a bit surprised by the council's reaction to have a closer look on sleep when a fair amount of the same arguments could be made for terra. Sleep, much like terra, is limited by how good it is by its abusers - no one was seriously advocating for a sleep ban prior to Darkrai and it seems inconsistent with previous teiring policy in terms of letting the meta evolve to deal with the issue. I would argue that there has never been more counter play to deal with sleep than in the current generation in terms of the leniency of the mechanic relative to other gens and with the introduction of Good as Gold and Purifying Salt on two great mons. Legitimate counter play to sleep, in general, exists.
In my mind, this is akin to me saying I have no counter play to gen 4 Jirachi; let's ban flinching moves instead of banning Jirachi. If we're going to treat terra abusers on a case by case basis, rather than outright banning the mechanic (neither pro nor against at this point because of how amped up the power creep is this gen), then we absolutely should do the same with sleep for consistency. I feel there are more pressing issues to tackle before even discussing sleep, like the re-released mons and finalizing our decision on the generation defining mechanic.
The conversation about Sleep Mod Clause is not just about SV OU. It's not even about Gen 9, and it's definitely not just about Darkrai. It's about it in of itself.
The entire argument is framed around Gen 9, and more specifically SV OU. If you go into the Policy Thread right now you can find a quotes from OU Council members saying just as such. With that in mind it really becomes easy to look at what is causing the issue, and it isn't the plethora of Pokemon with Sleep Moves or even the Clause itself. It really is a handful of bad eggs with one being Darker than all the others.
On top of that, Sleep is a mechanic that has a Clause, an entire game mod, that artificially nerfs it. As such, there's an admission at base that it's so inherently imbalanced that we can't have it on its "pure" state. Sleep is already "partially banned" through the Sleep Clause; if anything is causing a problem in regards to it, looking at it directly and not at its individual abusers and wondering "why is this the only mechanic we have "partially banned"?" makes at least as much sense as looking at each abuser.
Sleep is broken, there's no arguing that. Without a Clause or a Mod it would be unacceptable as a mechanic. The thing is though we have Decades of data through multiple generations showing that within its artificially nerfed state it's fine as a mechanic. Still very strong for sure, but perfectly passable if not even balanced. That's why I argue to look at the abusers, and not the mechanic itself.
