Metagame Foresighters

[Gambit]

(Approved by Isaiah)

(AMAZING ART BY IMakeNoSense)

Foresighters​

Ever heard of the move Future Sight? The mechanic surrounding this move is that when used, it won't instantly hit the target. However, after two turns, the move will hit. So, what if you could use a move that could act like Future Sight? In this metagame, one move in the first moveslot will act as Future Sight.


Rules:

Mechanic: The move in the first moveslot uses the same mechanic as Future Sight.
Example:

Example

:Deoxys-Defense:Deoxys-D
Ability: Pressure
IVs: 0 Atk
- Agility
- Teleport
- Recover
- Psycho Boost
Let's say you have Deoxys-Defense. First turn, you use Agility, but since it acts like Future Sight, nothing happens. Next turn you teleport to Gholdengo. This turn, Gholdengo uses Nasty Plot. At the end of the turn, however, the Agility from Deoxys occurs and Gholdengo also gets a Speed Boost. Now, your Gholdengo is at +2 SpA and +2 Speed and threatens to sweep.

Clauses: Standard OMs, Sleep Moves Clause, Terastal Clause
Banlist:
Banned Pokemon:

Banned Pokemon

:annihilape:Annihilape
:arceus:Arceus(All Forms)
:baxcalibur:Baxcalibur
:calyrex-ice:Calyrex-Ice
:calyrex-shadow:Calyrex-Shadow
:chien-pao:Chien-Pao
:chi-yu:Chi-Yu
:deoxys:Deoxys
:deoxys-attack:Deoxys-A
:dialga:Dialga(Base+Origin)
:espathra:Espathra
:eternatus:Eternatus
:flutter mane:Flutter Mane
:giratina:Giratina(Base+Origin)
:groudon:Groudon
:ho-oh:Ho-oh
:iron bundle:Iron Bundle
:koraidon:Koraidon
:kyogre:Kyogre
:kyurem-black:Kyurem-B
:kyurem-white:Kyurem-W
:landorus:Landorus-I
:lugia:Lugia
:lunala:Lunala
:magearna-original:Magearna
:mewtwo:Mewtwo
:miraidon:Miraidon
:necrozma-dawn-wings:Necrozma-Dawn-Wings
:necrozma-dusk-mane:Necrozma-Dusk-Mane
:palafin-hero:Palafin
:palkia:Palkia(Base+Origin)
:rayquaza:Rayquaza
:reshiram:Reshiram
:shaymin-sky:Shaymin-Sky
:solgaleo:Solgaleo
:spectrier:Spectrier
:ursaluna-bloodmoon:Ursaluna-Blood
:urshifu:Urshifu(Single+Rapid)
:zacian-crowned:Zacian(Base+Crown)
:zamazenta-crowned:Zamazenta-Crowned
:zekrom:Zekrom

Banned Moves:

Banned Moves

:orthworm:Shed Tail
:basculegion:Last Respects
:jumpluff:Baton Pass
:sneasler:Dire Claw

Restricted Moves: (Moves banned in Slot 1)

Restricted Moves

:volbeat:Tail Glow
:drednaw:Shell Smash
:volcarona:Quiver Dance
:lilligant-hisui:Victory Dance
:kommo-o:Clangorous Soul
:toxtricity:Shift Gear
:dragonite:Dragon Dance
:cinccino:Tidy Up
:ursaluna:Belly Drum
:rillaboom:Endeavor

Banned Abilities:

Banned Abilities

:glalie:Moody
:wobbuffet:Shadow Tag
:trapinch:Arena Trap
:gliscor:Sand Veil
:articuno:Snow Cloak

Banned Items:
:politoed:King’s Rock
:weavile:Razor Fang
Watchlist:
:hawlucha:Swords Dance
:gengar:Nasty Plot

Strategy:

:slowking-galar:Chilly Reception + Regenerator is an incredible combo with two incredible supporting moves able to be Future Sighted as in Slack Off to benefit support mons that don't have access to healing moves and Thunder Wave to put pressure on opposing mons.
:gholdengo:I think this mon is going to be good. Good as Gold is busted and being immune to almost every status move is just wild, and Gholdengo can also take use of Future Sighted Recovers and Thunder Waves.

Resources:

Playability: This format now has a ladder! Go play it!

Council:
:iron bundle: Gambit_Gamin (Leader)
:ninetales-alola: DosDogs
:jigglypuff: Hiusi guy
:darkrai: prunyy
Ban History: Nothing yet.

(Viability Rankings and Sample Teams will be added eventually.)

 

[Gambit]

Reserved for Sample Teams...

 

[Gambit]

Reserved for VR

 

[FayaWizard]

How would this work with a move like Close Combat/VCreate? Would the stat drops apply to the current mon out?
What about Giga Impact/Hyper Beam? Does the current mon not get to move next turn?

 

[Gambit]

How would this work with a move like Close Combat/VCreate? Would the stat drops apply to the current mon out?
What about Giga Impact/Hyper Beam? Does the current mon not get to move next turn?

Click to collapse...

Unfortunately, I can't say I know the answer to that yet. While a test version of the metagame works, I haven't been able to test it out myself yet.

 

[Hiusi guy]

Glhf gamers

Corviknight @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Nasty Plot
- Roost
- U-turn
- Defog

Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Battle Bond
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Haze (tbh idk what to put here)
- Hydro Pump
- Dark Pulse
- Ice Beam

 

[DeepFriedMagikarp]

How would it work with priority? Future sight normally comes out at the end of the turn but what about espeed/etc?

As far a strategy you could pass trick room for max turns with your sweeper

 

[Gambit]

How would it work with priority? Future sight normally comes out at the end of the turn but what about espeed/etc?

As far a strategy you could pass trick room for max turns with your sweeper

Click to collapse...

As you said, since Future Sight comes out at the end of the turn, I want to assume that Extreme Speed would still come at the end of the turn, but I can't be certain of that.

 

[HiZo]

How would this work with a move like Close Combat/VCreate? Would the stat drops apply to the current mon out?
What about Giga Impact/Hyper Beam? Does the current mon not get to move next turn?

Click to collapse...

You use the move and forsee an attack. Current mon gets no drawbacks. The mon who is out when the move finally connects does get the negative drawbacks. EDIT: moves that cause self drops do not proc, but hyper beam does proc interestingly enough.

How would it work with priority? Future sight normally comes out at the end of the turn but what about espeed/etc?

Click to collapse...

It doesn't.

Also worth mentioning that it took like 30 mins for me to code a very basic version. Rest assured I'll respond to mechanic stuff once things get finalized.

 

[Dahness]

I like the idea of this, seems like you will be able to make some crazy combos with the mechanics in place,really hyped up for it

 

[skip]

Glhf gamers

Corviknight @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Nasty Plot
- Roost
- U-turn
- Defog

Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Battle Bond
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Haze (tbh idk what to put here)
- Hydro Pump
- Dark Pulse
- Ice Beam

Click to collapse...

Guys I thought boosting moves were banned, right guys?

 

[R8]

How would pivot moves work? Will whatever pokemon I have on the field pivot 3 turns after the pivot move was clicked? That could be interesting

Future Sight an Doom Desire go through protect - will this be the case of every future-sighted move? (pls no)

What would happen if you use future sight/doom desire in the first slot? Would they be used 6 turns later instead?

What happen if you future sight explosion? Can your pokemon die while it is not on the field?

I think phazing moves might have very interesting applications: whatever switches in has to take your hit and then immediately be forced out without getting the opportunity of clicking the recovery move. Or maybe you set a tspikes and force something random to take it?

I can imagine delayed scald + flip alomomola can make a lot much more annoying to switch into. Delaying stuff like Knock Off or anything with a secondary effect sounds nasty

Not sure how you could use it but delaying Block/Mean Look surely has some applications


My main thoughts is that protect might be a very good move in general to try to block future sight clones. You might try to take advantage of that with setup, but every setup sweeper will virtually only have 3 moves to sweep with since you can't use the fsight slotted move as a direct coverage move. I think the fact one of your moves has to be a fsight move no matter what can be very limiting, since you still are trying to be a "normal" mon with three of your slots. To be honest I think the format could have been more interesting if all 4 slots had future sight mechanics.

 

[ant4456]

I feel like Swords Dance not being restricted could be a mistake. But I haven't really played so, I'm not sure if it is as busted as it sounds in theory in practice.

 

[Hiusi guy]

How would pivot moves work? Will whatever pokemon I have on the field pivot 3 turns after the pivot move was clicked? That could be interesting

Future Sight an Doom Desire go through protect - will this be the case of every future-sighted move? (pls no)

What would happen if you use future sight/doom desire in the first slot? Would they be used 6 turns later instead?

What happen if you future sight explosion? Can your pokemon die while it is not on the field?

I think phazing moves might have very interesting applications: whatever switches in has to take your hit and then immediately be forced out without getting the opportunity of clicking the recovery move. Or maybe you set a tspikes and force something random to take it?

I can imagine delayed scald + flip alomomola can make a lot much more annoying to switch into. Delaying stuff like Knock Off or anything with a secondary effect sounds nasty

Not sure how you could use it but delaying Block/Mean Look surely has some applications


My main thoughts is that protect might be a very good move in general to try to block future sight clones. You might try to take advantage of that with setup, but every setup sweeper will virtually only have 3 moves to sweep with since you can't use the fsight slotted move as a direct coverage move. I think the fact one of your moves has to be a fsight move no matter what can be very limiting, since you still are trying to be a "normal" mon with three of your slots. To be honest I think the format could have been more interesting if all 4 slots had future sight mechanics.

Click to collapse...

Most of this can be chopped up to it either works exactly like future sight with it's data swapped with the X moves data (so most moves won't go through protect and future sight not being extended) or we just don't know yet because it isn't playable yet (explosion may or may not just explode the Mon that's in, if it doesn't I doubt we'll keep it for very long). On the concept of having every move have the effect the problem with that is that it makes it play like standard game play but you know what'll happen in 2 turns, basically OU but with longer games.

I feel like Swords Dance not being restricted could be a mistake. But I haven't really played so, I'm not sure if it is as busted as it sounds in theory in practice.

Click to collapse...

Sd isn't restricted because well we haven't played it either so we don't know if it'll be broken or not

 

[Gambit]

I feel like Swords Dance not being restricted could be a mistake. But I haven't really played so, I'm not sure if it is as busted as it sounds in theory in practice.

Click to collapse...

I didn't want to go crazy with the banlist so I'm living it on the watchlist. Once this is playable, this will be tested to figure out whether this is op or not.

Guys I thought boosting moves were banned, right guys?

Click to collapse...

Nasty Plot is not banned due to similar reasons to Swords Dance not being banned listed above.

 

[HiZo]

How would pivot moves work? Will whatever pokemon I have on the field pivot 3 turns after the pivot move was clicked? That could be interesting

Future Sight an Doom Desire go through protect - will this be the case of every future-sighted move? (pls no)

What would happen if you use future sight/doom desire in the first slot? Would they be used 6 turns later instead?

What happen if you future sight explosion? Can your pokemon die while it is not on the field?

Click to collapse...

1) Future Moves do not qualify for pivoting privileges at all, neither when the move connects nor when its the move is used.

2) yes.

3) no

4) Mon explodes whilst explosion gets forseen

 

[The Guy Who Has Many Alts]

Hi, I would like to ask a question regarding the approval of this OM. Now, I will preface this by saying that I have no problems regarding its approval. I am interested in creating an OM myself, you see and just have a question regarding the following information taken from https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/metagame-workshop.3709907/

I know that the mechanics of this OM is slightly different to "Delaymons" but I am curious as to why "Delaymons" would be rejected, but this OM is approved. Once again I stress that I have no problem with the approval of this OM. If this is not the correct place to ask, then please let me know where I should ask these kinds of questions.

 

[Gambit]

Hi, I would like to ask a question regarding the approval of this OM. Now, I will preface this by saying that I have no problems regarding its approval. I am interested in creating an OM myself, you see and just have a question regarding the following information taken from https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/metagame-workshop.3709907/

View attachment 602264
View attachment 602265

I know that the mechanics of this OM is slightly different to "Delaymons" but I am curious as to why "Delaymons" would be rejected, but this OM is approved. Once again I stress that I have no problem with the approval of this OM. If this is not the correct place to ask, then please let me know where I should ask these kinds of questions.

Click to collapse...

I'm not an expert in this type of thing but if all moves were doom desire, this would be an absolutely miserable metagame and I would speculate stall being incredible in a metagame like that. However, in this OM, having only one move act like future sight allows for more strategy while still keeping battles shorter, since you have other moves that can hit in one turn.

 

[Just A Shroom God]

First off, congrats to Gambit_Gamin on this cool meta idea. Just when I was thinking there were no successful meta ideas left, you showed up out of the blue to prove me wrong with a pretty cool idea like this! I also admire that you write analyses, it's a useful but thankless job that helps noobs like me get going in different OMs. All in all, you're just pretty cool in general, even if you do prefer the wrong Hoenn grass-type :totodiLUL:.

With that out of the way, pre-meta thoughts
:sv/iron-valiant:
this thing is going to be absurdly broken. Passing a nasty plot helps this thing pick up massive power without having to use a slot for calm mind, leaving it free to use its amazing coverage to do this:
+2 252 SpA Iron Valiant Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Corviknight: 424-500 (106 - 125%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Iron Valiant Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kingambit: 336-396 (98.5 - 116.1%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
+2 252 SpA Iron Valiant Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Rillaboom: 393-463 (115.2 - 135.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Iron Valiant Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Iron Treads: 444-524 (115.6 - 136.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Iron Valiant Moonblast vs. 244 HP / 16 SpD Gliscor: 364-429 (103.4 - 121.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Iron Valiant Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Torkoal: 496-585 (144.6 - 170.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Iron Valiant Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 240+ SpD Slowking-Galar: 226-266 (57.3 - 67.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Iron Valiant Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gouging Fire: 393-463 (111.9 - 131.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
etc.
basically just an OHKO machine against the more bulky neutral targets it struggles with
I see FB popping up as massively useful now that it's more powerful than CC to get past tran and hit things like Glimm and Wellspring very hard neutrally and get OHKOs that moonblast doesn't.
:sv/dragapult:
similarly, pult may be an issue. It's not quite as bad since its lack of power and coverage means it gets checked by a few more things:
+2 252 SpA Dragapult Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 237-280 (60.1 - 71%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Dragapult Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 212+ SpD Heatran: 156-184 (40.4 - 47.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Dragapult Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Enamorus: 261-307 (90.3 - 106.2%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
+2 252 SpA Dragapult Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 204+ SpD Assault Vest Primarina: 99-117 (27.1 - 32.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
but it has the advantage of permanently higher speed, pivoting, and the ability to hold an item.

:sv/archaludon:
archaludon is gonna be pretty good on rain, utilizing pivot eshot to give barraskewda or whatever water breaker you have an easy time breaking past bulky waters. I imagine it'll use a set like this
Archaludon @ Eject Pack
Ability: Stamina
Quiet Nature
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA
- Electro Shot
- Flash Cannon
- Earthquake
- Draco Meteor
With eject pack to provide nice pivoting. EQ and quiet nature are for clodsire since both barra and arch struggle with it
I also don't know if the SpA raise happens on the turn that Electro Shot is selected or the turn that it happens. If it happens on the turn that the move lands, greninja might rise to prominence again, able to snag a +2 boost off battle bond and absolutely clean house.

:sv/serperior:
EVERYBODY RUN SERPERIOR GOT COVERAGE
but for real though, while I'm sure it'll enjoy a nice viability boost, serp is gonna be not banworthy for the same reasons it's not banworthy with Tera in OU: there's no 1-size-fits-all move that it can pair with leaf storm to get past all of its counters: Fire is stopped by dragon, ice is stopped by steels, fighting is stopped by flying. it also still struggles with its normal things: not having immediate power, being slowish (dear god there are 11 pokemon that naturally outspeed it, gen 9 is crazy), and being stopped by all the unaware mons sans dozo regardless of what it does.

:sv/crawdaunt:
call me crazy, but this is the mon I'm most excited to use. Band Crawdaunt hits ridiculously hard, and with an agility boost its fast now.
water/dark is an amazing typing; there's only three currently-OU mons that resist both (one is Primarina lmao), and with Crawdaunt, you NEED a resist or else band crawdaunt is gonna do a silly and OHKO half of your team:
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Crabhammer vs. 252 HP / 124+ Def Hatterene: 284-336 (89.3 - 105.6%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Knock Off vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ogerpon-Wellspring: 256-302 (85 - 100.3%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Crabhammer vs. 252 HP / 160+ Def Skarmory: 204-242 (61 - 72.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 12 HP / 0 Def Walking Wake: 356-420 (104 - 122.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Crabhammer vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Dragapult: 239-282 (75.3 - 88.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Serperior: 342-404 (117.5 - 138.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
oh, and it gets close combat so it can do this:
252+ Atk Choice Band Crawdaunt Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Roaring Moon: 538-634 (153.2 - 180.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Crawdaunt Close Combat vs. 204 HP / 0 Def Archaludon: 326-384 (87.6 - 103.2%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

plus now it's FAST. Adamant outspeeds even zamazenta after an agility boost, capping out at 418 speed.
unfortunately though I dont see it being a real top-tier pokemon, since it's still really frail, struggles to ohko bulkier threats (whyyyy did gamefreak give gouging more bulk than dialga and recovery wtf) and is always stopped by dozo.

ofc stall is gonna be so annoying to deal with when they can just pass dozo a recovery move ughhh

I'm hoping that the hazard situation is better here than in OU; now that you can pivot to something to force dengo out, defog corv stocks will go up. same with rspin, though some user might not prefer to have their spin go later because of the speed boosting potential.

overall I'm actually really excited to play this meta; it looks fresh and exciting, and it's nice to play with tera clause for once. Looking forward to it opening up!


edit: oh yeah can't believe i forgor to mention glowking is gonna be the goat
all the coverage + pivoting + nasty plot/slack off is gonna go crazy, can't wait for him to be spammed

 

[Notgamingreally]

Here’s my ten cents, my two cents is free
:sv/falinks:
Is this meant to be free could see it becoming broken with like jaw lock or just giving smth like :sv/latios: a nice stored power or anything no retreat
:sv/samurott-hisui:
This *might* be a little good with like cedge + flip as sight move or like knock as sight move for some pressure
:sv/iron bundle: :sv/Sneasler:
This meta starts with tera clause peculiarly so bm pagos and ogerpon can stay legal for now however these seem like notable Ubers to me even with iron bundles classic freeze dry flip ice beam hydro set having one move sighted
:sv/cinderace:
How does protean work here? Can I like headlong with Luna go to cinder and then have stab ground fire in one turn.
:sv/slowking: :sv/hatterene:
Speaking of Luna tr seems kinda dumb here with it applying after say, slowking chilly receptions the tr threat in, none of the tr mons have really good sight moves tho so we’ll see.
:sv/garganacl:
Salt cure sight might be pretty real for stall as a way to get some chip on the offensive threat when you go to say, clodsire
:sv/glimmora:
Speaking of sighted moves that are nearly banned in bh glimm ho might be a bit fun with mortal as you chase out the steel or spikes 2 turns later
:sv/corviknight:
Defog gains a minor buff as Ghold can now be forced out a bit easier mayhaps
:sv/torkoal:
Sun (and rain for that matter) has some strategies up its sleeve so to speak notably it has growth as a setup move (and eruption might be funny ngl)
:sv/zapdos-galar:
T kick maybe? Idk all the offensive secondary stuff is on frail mons
:sv/blissey:

Is wish affected by this lol and if it is does it go on base mon hp or current mon hp
:sv/kingambit: :sv/iron hands:
Extension of Luna in that their all kinda broken with agility up and running.
:sv/slowking-galar:
Surely future sight can’t be sighted twice right? Anyway hail might be good with chilly idk ice threatens ground.

 

[Just A Shroom God]

:sv/blissey:

Is wish affected by this lol and if it is does it go on base mon hp or current mon hp

Click to collapse...

The way the game works I'm assuming is that for moves like wish, you click the button, then 2 turns later the mon out uses the move. That means that it will use the mon out's HP stat. Softboiled does the same. You can always just run regular wish in one of your non-FS slots.

:sv/cinderace:
How does protean work here? Can I like headlong with Luna go to cinder and then have stab ground fire in one turn.

Click to collapse...

edit: nevermind I'm stupid

 

[chartung17]

The way the game works I'm assuming is that for moves like wish, you click the button, then 2 turns later the mon out uses the move. That means that it will use the mon out's HP stat. Softboiled does the same. You can always just run regular wish in one of your non-FS slots.

Well, using future sight on a Protean mon does change its type iirc, so I imagine giving a move like u-turn on ace would do STAB-boosted damage. However, protean does not activate if future sight activates on that turn, since it's not the pokemon actually using the move. So I think you'd only get fire stab in your example.

Click to collapse...

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9purehackmons-2063368822
Future Sight uses the special attack of the user, not the mon currently on the field, so Wish (and probably also Soft Boiled/Recover/etc, although those might depend on how they're coded) should work the same way and heal the mon out for 50% of the user's HP.
Future Sight on a Protean mon does not change the user's type, neither when it's used nor when it hits.

 

[Gambit]

Just a quick announcement, we've got a banner! Big thanks to IMakeNoSense for the banner!

 

[IMakeNoSense]

Just a quick announcement, we've got a banner! Big thanks to IMakeNoSense for the banner!

Click to collapse...

heh this one was a fun one to do

I really wanted to draw Ogerpon doin the Rosa thinking face and there *may* be another joke somewhere in there that I won't confirm until someone finds this. Anyway, this meta should be fun!

 

[Catcus]

How would Substitute and pivoting moves work in this meta? For sub, does it take the health from the setter or the mon out, and for pivoting moves, would they just cause the mon out to switch out?