Yeah I have taken both of the last surveys, I meant it more as a way of saying, sorry for the confusion, but point still stands, I doubt the forum surveys are too hard to set up
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
Yeah I have taken both of the last surveys, I meant it more as a way of saying, sorry for the confusion, but point still stands, I doubt the forum surveys are too hard to set up
Sorry, i can't get behind the idea that if players dislike how the meta has developed enough to lose interest in playing it, they deserve no voice in improving it. If it were a meme tier like RU or Gen 6 UUbersBL or Natdex Gen 8 Monotype UU or whatever that's one thing, not a big deal if active players lose interest, but Current Gen OU is Smogon's flagship tier. It should be as good as possible & alienating longtime players that have historically been invested isn't a "well too bad" scenario in my view. If we are to take this view, then there's no such thing as a "bad tiering decision," it would apparently be the players' fault for disliking the meta if it gets worse and nothing should be done?
Exactly, it's fine if you lose interest and decide to not participate in it, but you shouldn't participate in the tiering decisions since you do not know enough about the current metagame to make an informed decision. Even more so if you decide that you hate the meta and quit pokemon for good over a decision, in that case I don't think they deserved to participate at all. It's including people who could have a negative influence on results, and if you want to make a second survey for them then that seems like too much effort for so little reward, if they left this meta, then they most likely will not participate in the survey. It seems like we are trying to cater for someone who will still spit in our faces anyways, not that all people who are no longer interested in Gen 9 are like that, but a few people will be.
It's like if previous council members still got a vote in tiering decisions, their time is up, they have left the council. They can say their opinions, but that shouldn't influence the results.
Imma be real with you, freedom cup did that but cringe because it added in things that were rightfully yeeted like evasion and OHKO moves. But I get your vision, and honestly, I could see it being weirdly balanced if we just clean slated the banlist and tried anew, no QB since that would just be returning to what was before.
The most balanced mon ever.
I mean, even you can do something similar:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Heatran Overheat vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Torkoal in Sun: 351-414 (102.3 - 120.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Beads of Ruin Tera Fire Chi-Yu Overheat vs. 168 HP / 0 SpD Abomasnow in Sun: 4400-5184 (1212.1 - 1428%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Beads of Ruin Tera Fire Chi-Yu Overheat vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Torkoal in Sun: 642-756 (187.1 - 220.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Beads of Ruin Chi-Yu Overheat vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Torkoal in Sun: 481-567 (140.2 - 165.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
we need to find a way to let chi yu wear 2 pairs of choice specs at once to make the calcs even more ridiculous
A fish can,t wear Boots, but there is enough place for a Scarf there too.
chi yu is getting too powerful and carkol must adapt to continue countering it
Carkol @ Eviolite
Ability: Flame Body
Tera Type: Rock
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Spikes
- Fire Spin/ Will-O-Wisp
- Protect
sun and u turn spam teams have also been acting inappropriately, meaning the king of competitive must rise from the fallen ashes of ZU and
FIGHT
back against match up reliant teams, carkol is our metagames saviour, being able to spike, spread skillful burns and maybe check choice locked kyurem, raging bolt, rillaboom, volcarona and even cobalion, not because its highly flawed, but because it glitches the game with its brokenness
Carkol @ Eviolite
Ability: Flame Body
Tera Type: Rock
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Spikes
- Fire Spin/ Will-O-Wisp
- Protect
sun and u turn spam teams have also been acting inappropriately, meaning the king of competitive must rise from the fallen ashes of ZU and
FIGHT
back against match up reliant teams, carkol is our metagames saviour, being able to spike, spread skillful burns and maybe check choice locked kyurem, raging bolt, rillaboom, volcarona and even cobalion, not because its highly flawed, but because it glitches the game with its brokenness
Well, this could be a self fulfilling prophecy by the same logic. If we banned Tera and the same number of folks left for that, then the people left behind could be more anti-Tera crowd and so on. And so the point that not banning Tera left more pro-Tera people behind and generated a cycle of increasing pro-Tera majority would likely be getting at that. You stayed. You claim you are more invested/more informed. Just maybe other folks would have stayed and claimed to be more invested/informed with different decisions. Does that make them worse? Not necesarrily.
Personally, I don't believe in this because Tera is just a more popular mechanic. So I believe more people support Tera in general, and in some cases, regardless of how healthy it is for the tier. But in other cases, I'm sure there are plenty of folks who genuinely believe it isn't so bad. As an anti-Tera person myself, by technicality, I don't like that term because I don't hate Tera. I think it's a fun mechanic. Just poorly balanced and not good for the game.
I will say that I have been in and out of the tier myself because gen 9 power creep with Tera is just frustrating sometimes. I did miss the last survey where Tera was on it. So I don't know how many other people there are like me. But it's not necesarrily an invalid point to say that folks may be less engaged because of the direction of the tier. It's also too black and white to say folks left when some have probably been in and out or what have you. Sometimes, there are those in the Smogon community who tend to too easily dismiss the opinion of others because of arbitrary reasons.
However, I will reiterate that I do get the sense Tera is generally more popular. So in this case, I tend to doubt there would be enough folks who have been semi-invested or irregularly invested to make a difference. I guess it also depends on how close the votes are, but I'm guessing probably not.
What I meant was that we suspect test tera first, and if the suspect test says that it is going to be banned then we ban it. I was just saying that it was a possible idea that we could also make an alternate format where tera is banned on a different server for a little bit if we wouldn't want to suspect tera for some reason. It was just an idea, wasn't saying it should happen. I personally think we should just suspect tera if enough people say we should.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Beads of Ruin Tera Fire Chi-Yu Fire Blast vs. -6 Lvl 1 0 HP / 0- SpD Dry Skin Paras in Sun: 0-58680 (0 - 533454.5%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
I have outdone all of you.
"Paras had a small niche in
overheat literally always kills actually. it's fire blast that has the threshold necessary to do 0 damage to a level 1 0 hp -6 0 -SpD paras
Attachments
Wait….. how does this even work?
chi-yu quivers in fear at the might of paras and is too intimidated to go all out
damage overflow values
Damage overflow
Level 1 Dry Skin Paras with 0 HP or Special Defense EVs, a Special Defense lowering nature, -6 Special Defense, against a level 100 tera fire choice specs beads of ruin 252+ SpA Chi Yu in sun
I guess that Fire Blast's 110 BP is in a range that's specific enough to not include Flamethrower or Overheat that hits 0 in the damage overflow
then they shouldn't have left, should they? it's not our fault they were too weak to suck it up and play the game until the next opportunity for action. you don't see me taking my ball and going home because i don't like how the gambit suspect turned out or because the community has consistently failed to act on ghold
Can we please fill 20 pages of Chi-Yu instead of complaining about tera? I miss my goldfish. Let’s discuss how awesome it is and you can give it hugs!!!!