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Creative new Froslass Set

With all the hype around Smogon about the Brokenness of Gachomp + Sand veil I decided to investigate into the hail equivalents and have come up with, what i think, a competitively viable set. There are only 3 pokemon in the game that have access to Snow Cloak (excluding pre-evolutions) and they are Manoswine, Glaceon, and Froslass.

Snow Cloak raises the Pokemon's evasion by one level during a Hailstorm, so basically it lowers the accuracy of opponent’s moves by 20%.

Manoswine has better things to do that abuse such a trait and all of Glaceon's rolls have been explored when one considers its limited moveset, but what about Froslass? It is located within the tier of the rarely touched balanced pokemon, and this comes as no surprise when ones considers it’s below average base stats and Pursuit/Stealth Rock Weaknesses. But i find its movepool is its saving grace and have come up with the following set:

Spr_4d_478.png

Froslass (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Snow Cloak
EVs: 224 HP/252 Spd/34 SDef
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Thunder Wave
- Spikes
- Substitute
- Swagger

As you can see straight away this set is fairly similar to the sub-dancing Gachomp set and obviously needs to be paired with Hail (Abomasnow) to maximize its effectiveness, but it is different is one key way. Instead of raising its stats, it abuses parafusion while laying down spikes. Consider the following Calculations (Probability of succesfully attacking with 100% accuracy moves):

Snow Veil = 80%
Confusion = 50%
Paralyzed = 66.6r%
Snow Veil + Paralyzed = 53.3r%
Snow Veil + Confusion = 40%
Confusion + Paralyzed = 33.3r%
Snow Veil + Confusion + Paralyzed = 26.6r%

The idea of this set is to switch in (once permanent hail has started) while taking minimal damage, and with Froslass' dual immunities, this is no hard feat to accomplish. Once Froslass is in your first goal is to set up a Substitute while your opponent switches (fearing a special attacking orientated Froslass set), stays in and tries to status you, or directly attacks you. The first two are what you are hoping for and if the third occurs, then you keep subbing until they miss (with leftover recovery and these evs, you will be able to sub five times, meaning probability is on your side).

Once you have successfully got a sub up, your next goal is to paralyze whoever your opponent has in (except if they are a ground pokemon, in which case you would use Swagger). This essentially lowers your opponents accuracy to 50% and allows you to use Swagger the next turn you opponent misses and you are able to get another sub up (remember every time your opponent is unable to successfully attack you recover 6.25% Hp).

(It should be noted that Froslass is also capable of learning Confuse Ray, but Swagger in generally the superior choice. Not only does it have more pp, but it also raises your opponents attack by two stages, which is a bonus in this case as your opponent will do more damage to itself when it attacks itself in confusion).

Once you have both paralyzed and confused your opponent, and are comfortably sitting behind a sub, you may begin setting up Spikes. This is one of Froslass' unique abilities, as she is the only Ghost type pokemon that is able to set up entry hazards (which means they cannot be spun away until Froslass has switched out). This is a key part of the plan here as it stops two pokemon that have been paralyzed switching between each other as you are unable to attack them.

Using this method you should be able to take out, theoretically, a major portion of your opponents team, as your opponent can either leave their pokemon in and suffer confusion damage or keep switching out and take damage from Spikes.

Threat List

Priority moves:
Since Froslass is faster than every paralyzed pokemon, it will always go first at the beginning of a turn. The exception to this are priority moves that are capable of breaking Froslass' sub on the turn she uses Thunder Wave and then strike first the following turn for the KO. Here is a list of all the priority moves in the game:

Aqua Jet
Bide
Bullet Punch
Extremespeed
Fake Out
Ice Shard
Mach Punch
Quick Attack
Shadow Sneak
Sucker Punch
Vacuum Wave

Froslass has an instant immunity to 7 of those 11 (Bide and Sucker Punch do nothing since Froslass has no attacking moves) Aqua Jet, Ice Shard and Shadow Sneak are rarely ever used (except on Manoswine, Azuramill and Dusknoir respectively). Bullet Punch is the only priority move you can expect to see in the OU environment frequently enough to warrant a threat, so beware of Lucario and Metagross.

Sandstorm:
Both Tyranitar and Hippowdown can screw this plan up completely. If your opponent switches in either of these it is time for Froslass to leave the battlefield (After getting in a handy Thunder Wave on TTar of course) as Sandstorm not only nullifies Leftovers but removes Snow Cloak.

Phazers:
Pokemon with moves such as Whirlwind and Roar can be a real pain in the ass, because there is nothing you can do really to stop them forcing you out. The best you can do is hit them with Thunder Wave (and if you are lucky, a Swagger) before you leave the field.

Taunters:
Cant really do nothing here as im not carrying an actual active damaging move (barring Blizzard maybe). Best bet is to go with Thunderwave and switch.

Thunder Wave, Spikes and Confusion Immunities:
Both Ground and Flying Pokemon can wreck this plan somewhat, which is why replacing either Spikes, or Thunderwave with Blizzard is a viable option. Not only does it allow Froslass to further abuse Hail benefits (in this case, fire off 100% accuracy Blizzards) but it benefits from Stab and hits for Super Effective damage against these types. Pokemon with immunity to Confusion are far less common, as you can only acquire this immunity though the ability Own Tempo, which you will mostly ever see on the Slowbro/king duo and Lickilicky.

Well that's it. I have had limited amount of testing with this set as I am spending most of my time on Shoddy laddering, but it has proven to be successful and the MvP in most of the matches I have used it in. Feel free to experiment with it and post your results and observations here.

Oh and before I finish off I want to leave you with a mini War story, demonstrating how well he can do his job...

theregicide switched in Scizor (lvl 100 Scizor ?).
Pointed stones dug into Scizor.
Scizor lost 12% of its health.
Sulla switched in Froslass (lvl 100 Froslass ?).
Scizor used Swords Dance.
Scizor's attack was sharply raised.
The hail continues to fall.
Scizor is pelted by hail!
Scizor lost 6% of its health.
---
Froslass used Substitute.
Froslass lost 25% of its health.
Froslass made a substitute!
Scizor used Iron Head.
It's super effective!
The substitute took damage for Froslass!
Froslass's substitute faded!
The hail continues to fall.
Scizor is pelted by hail!
Scizor lost 6% of its health.
Froslass's leftovers restored its health a little!
Froslass restored 6% of its health.
---
Froslass used Substitute.
Froslass lost 25% of its health.
Froslass made a substitute!
Scizor used Iron Head.
Scizor's attack missed!
The hail continues to fall.
Scizor is pelted by hail!
Scizor lost 6% of its health.
Froslass's leftovers restored its health a little!
Froslass restored 6% of its health.
---
Froslass used Swagger.
Scizor's attack was sharply raised.
Scizor became confused!
Scizor's Lum Berry cured its Confusion!
Scizor used Iron Head.
Scizor's attack missed!
The hail continues to fall.
Scizor is pelted by hail!
Scizor lost 6% of its health.
Froslass's leftovers restored its health a little!
Froslass restored 6% of its health.
---
Froslass used Swagger.
Scizor's attack was sharply raised.
Scizor became confused!
Scizor is confused!
Scizor used Iron Head.
It's super effective!
The substitute took damage for Froslass!
Froslass's substitute faded!
The hail continues to fall.
Scizor is pelted by hail!
Scizor lost 6% of its health.
Froslass's leftovers restored its health a little!
Froslass restored 6% of its health.
---
Froslass used Substitute.
Froslass lost 25% of its health.
Froslass made a substitute!
Scizor is confused!
It hurt itself in its confusion!
Scizor lost 57% of its health.
theregicide's Scizor fainted.
The hail continues to fall.
Froslass's leftovers restored its health a little!
Froslass restored 6% of its health.
---
theregicide switched in Octillery (lvl 100 Octillery ?).
Pointed stones dug into Octillery.
Octillery lost 12% of its health.
Froslass used Swagger.
Octillery's attack was sharply raised.
Octillery became confused!
Octillery is confused!
Octillery used Surf.
Octillery's attack missed!
The hail continues to fall.
Octillery is pelted by hail!
Octillery lost 6% of its health.
Froslass's leftovers restored its health a little!
Froslass restored 6% of its health.
Octillery's leftovers restored its health a little!
Octillery restored 6% of its health.
---
Froslass used Thunder Wave.
Octillery is paralysed! It may be unable to move!
Octillery snapped out of confusion!
Octillery used Surf.
The substitute took damage for Froslass!
Froslass's substitute faded!
The hail continues to fall.
Octillery is pelted by hail!
Octillery lost 6% of its health.
Froslass's leftovers restored its health a little!
Froslass restored 6% of its health.
Octillery's leftovers restored its health a little!
Octillery restored 6% of its health.
---
Froslass used Swagger.
Octillery's attack was sharply raised.
Octillery became confused!
Octillery is confused!
Octillery is paralysed! It can't move!
The hail continues to fall.
Octillery is pelted by hail!
Octillery lost 6% of its health.
Froslass's leftovers restored its health a little!
Froslass restored 6% of its health.
Octillery's leftovers restored its health a little!
Octillery restored 6% of its health.
---
theregicide switched in Porygonz (lvl 100 Porygonz).
Pointed stones dug into Porygonz.
Porygonz lost 12% of its health.
Froslass used Substitute.
Froslass lost 25% of its health.
Froslass made a substitute!
The hail continues to fall.
Porygonz is pelted by hail!
Porygonz lost 6% of its health.
Froslass's leftovers restored its health a little!
Froslass restored 6% of its health.
Porygonz's leftovers restored its health a little!
Porygonz restored 6% of its health.
---
Froslass used Thunder Wave.
Porygonz is paralysed! It may be unable to move!
Porygonz used Dark Pulse.
It's super effective!
The substitute took damage for Froslass!
Froslass's substitute faded!
The hail continues to fall.
Porygonz is pelted by hail!
Porygonz lost 6% of its health.
Froslass's leftovers restored its health a little!
Froslass restored 6% of its health.
Porygonz's leftovers restored its health a little!
Porygonz restored 6% of its health.
---
Froslass used Substitute.
Froslass lost 25% of its health.
Froslass made a substitute!
Porygonz is paralysed! It can't move!
The hail continues to fall.
Porygonz is pelted by hail!
Porygonz lost 6% of its health.
Froslass's leftovers restored its health a little!
Froslass restored 6% of its health.
Porygonz's leftovers restored its health a little!
Porygonz restored 6% of its health.
---
Froslass used Swagger.
Porygonz's attack was sharply raised.
Porygonz became confused!
Porygonz is confused!
It hurt itself in its confusion!
Porygonz lost 24% of its health.
The hail continues to fall.
Porygonz is pelted by hail!
Porygonz lost 6% of its health.
Froslass's leftovers restored its health a little!
Froslass restored 6% of its health.
Porygonz's leftovers restored its health a little!
Porygonz restored 6% of its health.
---
Froslass used Swagger.
Porygonz's attack was sharply raised.
Porygonz is already confused!
Porygonz is confused!
It hurt itself in its confusion!
Porygonz lost 36% of its health.
The hail continues to fall.
Porygonz is pelted by hail!
Porygonz lost 6% of its health.
Froslass's leftovers restored its health a little!
Froslass restored 6% of its health.
Porygonz's leftovers restored its health a little!
Porygonz restored 6% of its health.
---
Froslass used Spikes.
Spikes were scattered everywhere!
Spikes were scattered around the foe's team!
Porygonz is confused!
Porygonz used Dark Pulse.
It's super effective!
The substitute took damage for Froslass!
Froslass's substitute faded!
The hail continues to fall.
Porygonz is pelted by hail!
Porygonz lost 6% of its health.
Froslass's leftovers restored its health a little!
Froslass restored 6% of its health.
Porygonz's leftovers restored its health a little!
Porygonz restored 6% of its health.
---
Froslass used Substitute.
Froslass lost 25% of its health.
Froslass made a substitute!
Porygonz is confused!
Porygonz used Dark Pulse.
It's super effective!
A critical hit!
The substitute took damage for Froslass!
Froslass's substitute faded!
The hail continues to fall.
Porygonz is pelted by hail!
Porygonz lost 6% of its health.
Froslass's leftovers restored its health a little!
Froslass restored 6% of its health.
Porygonz's leftovers restored its health a little!
Porygonz restored 6% of its health.
---
Froslass used Substitute.
Froslass lost 25% of its health.
Froslass made a substitute!
Porygonz snapped out of confusion!
Porygonz is paralysed! It can't move!
The hail continues to fall.
Porygonz is pelted by hail!
Porygonz lost 6% of its health.
Froslass's leftovers restored its health a little!
Froslass restored 6% of its health.
Porygonz's leftovers restored its health a little!
Porygonz restored 6% of its health.
---
Froslass used Swagger.
Porygonz's attack was sharply raised.
Porygonz became confused!
Porygonz is confused!
Porygonz is paralysed! It can't move!
The hail continues to fall.
Porygonz is pelted by hail!
Porygonz lost 6% of its health.
Froslass's leftovers restored its health a little!
Froslass restored 6% of its health.
Porygonz's leftovers restored its health a little!
Porygonz restored 6% of its health.
---
Froslass used Spikes.
Spikes were scattered around the foe's team!
Porygonz is confused!
Porygonz used Dark Pulse.
It's super effective!
The substitute took damage for Froslass!
Froslass's substitute faded!
The hail continues to fall.
Porygonz is pelted by hail!
Porygonz lost 6% of its health.
Froslass's leftovers restored its health a little!
Froslass restored 6% of its health.
Porygonz's leftovers restored its health a little!
Porygonz restored 6% of its health.
---
Froslass used Substitute.
Froslass lost 25% of its health.
Froslass made a substitute!
Porygonz is confused!
It hurt itself in its confusion!
Porygonz lost 28% of its health.
theregicide's Porygonz fainted.
The hail continues to fall.
Froslass's leftovers restored its health a little!
Froslass restored 6% of its health.
---
theregicide switched in Octillery (lvl 100 Octillery ?).
Pointed stones dug into Octillery.
Octillery lost 12% of its health.
Octillery was hurt by Spikes!
Octillery lost 19% of its health.
Froslass used Swagger.
Octillery's attack was sharply raised.
Octillery became confused!
Octillery is confused!
It hurt itself in its confusion!
Octillery lost 27% of its health.
The hail continues to fall.
Octillery is pelted by hail!
Octillery lost 6% of its health.
Froslass's leftovers restored its health a little!
Froslass restored 6% of its health.
Octillery's leftovers restored its health a little!
Octillery restored 6% of its health.
---
Froslass used Swagger.
Froslass's attack missed!
Octillery is confused!
It hurt itself in its confusion!
Octillery lost 26% of its health.
The hail continues to fall.
Octillery is pelted by hail!
Octillery lost 3% of its health.
theregicide's Octillery fainted.
Froslass's leftovers restored its health a little!
Froslass restored 6% of its health.
---
theregicide switched in Dugtrio (lvl 100 Dugtrio ?).
Pointed stones dug into Dugtrio.
Dugtrio lost 6% of its health.
Dugtrio was hurt by Spikes!
Dugtrio lost 18% of its health.
Froslass used Swagger.
Dugtrio's attack was sharply raised.
Dugtrio became confused!
Dugtrio is confused!
It hurt itself in its confusion!
Dugtrio lost 75% of its health.
theregicide's Dugtrio fainted.
The hail continues to fall.
Froslass's leftovers restored its health a little!
Froslass restored 6% of its health.
---
theregicide switched in Ninjask (lvl 100 Ninjask ?).
Pointed stones dug into Ninjask.
Ninjask lost 50% of its health.
Ninjask used Aerial Ace.
The substitute took damage for Froslass!
Froslass used Swagger.
Ninjask's attack was sharply raised.
Ninjask became confused!
The hail continues to fall.
Ninjask is pelted by hail!
Ninjask lost 6% of its health.
Ninjask's leftovers restored its health a little!
Ninjask restored 6% of its health.
Froslass's leftovers restored its health a little!
Froslass restored 6% of its health.
Ninjask's Speed Boost raised its speed!
---
Ninjask is confused!
It hurt itself in its confusion!
Ninjask lost 31% of its health.
Froslass used Swagger.
Ninjask's attack was sharply raised.
Ninjask is already confused!
The hail continues to fall.
Ninjask is pelted by hail!
Ninjask lost 6% of its health.
Ninjask's leftovers restored its health a little!
Ninjask restored 6% of its health.
Froslass's leftovers restored its health a little!
Froslass restored 6% of its health.
Ninjask's Speed Boost raised its speed!
---
Ninjask is confused!
Ninjask used Aerial Ace.
The substitute took damage for Froslass!
Froslass's substitute faded!
Froslass used Swagger.
Ninjask's attack was sharply raised.
Ninjask is already confused!
The hail continues to fall.
Ninjask is pelted by hail!
Ninjask lost 6% of its health.
Ninjask's leftovers restored its health a little!
Ninjask restored 6% of its health.
Froslass's leftovers restored its health a little!
Froslass restored 6% of its health.
Ninjask's Speed Boost raised its speed!
---
Ninjask is confused!
It hurt itself in its confusion!
Ninjask lost 19% of its health.
theregicide's Ninjask fainted.
Sulla wins!
theregicide: gg
theregicide has left the room.

And there you have it! Rate away.
 
Creative is the right word for it.

Looks annoying as fuck though, and is immune to the most common never miss move (Aura Sphere). Interesting but I think I'll stick with Garchomp.

Sorry if I didn't contribute too much. Just thinking out loud
 
Looks pretty damn annoying.

Lack of an actual attack worries me, but a great set nonetheless.

I love how versitile Froslass is. If you've ever run a protect+disable set, you know Froslass pisses people off so much.
 
I'm going to reinforce melon's point about the lack of attack. While you can cause the opponent to damage themselves with swagger, a more reliable attack would be useful, especially if it is your last pokémon.
 
I'm going to reinforce melon's point about the lack of attack. While you can cause the opponent to damage themselves with swagger, a more reliable attack would be useful, especially if it is your last pokémon.

I am well aware of this, and that is why i stated that using Blizzard over spikes or Swagger is a perfectly viable option. I just find Swagger and Spikes to be the better choice in general.
 
faster Pokemon with Taunt like Aerodactyl or Crobat also threat this that because it can't do anything against them.
 
I'm pretty sure I'm in love with this Froslass set. Annoying, speedy, defensive (in a sense), supportive, everything I could love about a Pokemon! And ghosts IMO are awesome. Her unique typing and unique movepool go hand in hand for this kind of a set, as such she alone can pull off a set like this. I love it!
I'd like to point out that a resistance to Ice shard with defensive ev's means it isn't a HUGE threat, leaving your priority move threats at
Bullet Punch (just Metagross), Water Jet (Azumarill and Floatzel), and Shadow Sneak (Dusknoir, Spiritomb, others can learn it but won't likely pack it). Not bad. Sad that TTar/Hippo are so stupidly common right now, a set like this isn't particularly viable. I'll still try it out though.
 
I'd rather add an ice attack so you can hurt those opponents immune to thunderwave. Maybe over spikes or swagger? I know you said it could be done, but no attack is just suicide
 
I have ran a similar set;

Froslass@ Brightpowder
Timid
252 SPD| 252 SP ATK
--------------------
Thunder Wave
Confuse Ray
Blizzard
T-Bolt/Spikes

Still packs that evasion with Parafusion AND BrightPowder hax. However, it can set up and/or come in with a decently strong Ice/Electric Combo. Nice set you have there, however. It can be out stalled, and has no real way of hitting; completely shut down by Taunt.
 
Running Blizzard over Spikes seems like the best idea. It hits Garchomp (most important Pokémon that is immune to Thunderwave) for super-effective and easily takes it out, but you can still have your opponent at the mercy of ~26% chance of attacking. It also hits Aerodactyl for SE if you get the substitute up in time.

BTW, did you include into that calculation the probability of it snapping out of confusion?
 
If this catches on, I will hate you >.< Looks annoying as hell.

That said, looks like a workable set. Might have to try it sometime :) Props for trying something different.
 
I think that I have to try it. I was going to do a hail team anyways, so I may have to find a slot for this, with StallRein, this could be a hella annoying team. Very nice uniqueness...
 
See --> Deathstar in GSC

In RSE it was fucked up by the more offensive metagame and now the new metagame is far more offensive than good old RSE's.

Nice idea; but it won't work.
 
its not just an annoyer though. it's an annoyer that strives to set up spikes, which would work wonderfully on a hail team. and once it gets all the spikes up you can use it for further parafusion work, or just to take some hits for the team to get something in cleanly.
 
Thats an interesting set. People underestimate the fact that 17 turns w/o leftovers == game over if you aren't hail immune. Considering that you're practically breaking even on the subsitutes (with proper EVs, you'll recover back 25% of health after 4 turns with leftovers. With Parafusion + Snow Veil, you are getting hit every 3.7 turns on the average)... add in spikes to actually _do_ something productive during this period and it seems like it might work in theory.

The primary problem I see with this set is... Garchomp. Immune to T-Wave, Swagger increases his attack, he has massive defenses to shrug off a self-hit and is easily set-up with T-Tar and what not.

Other stat-uppers will get T-Waved / Swaggered on the switch, so that doesn't seem too bad. Swagger a Weavile on the switch, T-Wave him while he has a 40% chance to break your sub, Sub again and start laying spikes. Seems like a solid strategy. It doesn't get much worse than Weavile v Frosslass (outspeed and OHKO), so if Frosslass can handle him she can probably handle a lot.

If Weavile comes in on a revenge kill, T-Wave him while he breaks sub, sub till he misses, and then swagger...

Seems solid. Froslass's speed and ability make it possible.

I'll have to run probability calculations to see if the above strategy I just outlined actually works. Anything less than 70% probability of sucess I cannot accept. Revenge Killers seem like they'll force Froslass very easily as they get to ignore the swagger on the switch.

But really, this set needs Blizzard more than anything. 5-moveslot syndrome anyone?
 
Wow, this set's pretty amazing. It's pretty fast and annoying too, and you can easily predict Taunters, since there's only a select few you can expect it from. XD
 
perhaps you should try blizzard>spikes, to have an attackmove, but lose the opportunity to do something porductive in the time the opponents flinchs and the advantage of laying unspinnable spikes :/

an other threat are stealth rock, because when they are lying und use an sub less and so u have a minor chance of and sand veil miss :/
 
Wow, this what not what I expected from "creative new froslass set" (hey guys, I'm gonna put wakeup slap on froslass, blissey counter!!!1!!1!) The set is well thought out and looks effective, kudos to you. I would personally drop spikes for blizzard, but that's just my opinion. Are there any calcs on the special attack EVs needed to OHKO garchomp?
 
Actually I'd drop Swagger for Blizzard but that's just me. It's kind of interesting to try however, a bit relying on hax, but everyone says Garchomp does too, so why not? And Froslass gets the nice point of outspeeding that pesky Dragon as well (with 100% Blizzard nevertheless).
 
Wow, this what not what I expected from "creative new froslass set" (hey guys, I'm gonna put wakeup slap on froslass, blissey counter!!!1!!1!) The set is well thought out and looks effective, kudos to you. I would personally drop spikes for blizzard, but that's just my opinion. Are there any calcs on the special attack EVs needed to OHKO garchomp?
Let's just say Blizzard OHKOs the Suicide Sweeper with no trouble at all.
 
Not to rain on the parade but this is simply a parafusion set in another colour. Its a solid set but its nothing particularly special and Swagger is suicidal for obvious reasons.

Also furthermore I'd like to note Disable is a perfectly viable extra option too, last thing you need when missing your moves is to also have your cover move disabled. Also stops those nasty Pursuit/Sucker Punches and works great alongside Substitute., however its not an option alongside Spikes.

Froslass
-Substitute/Confuse Ray
-Disable
-Thunder
-Ice Beam

Is all I tend to use.
 
Wow, this an excellent thread. You put a lot of thought into it. I guess I'm a little biased towards parafusion but it's still great.
Kudos
 
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