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Hipmonlee

Hipmonlee
is a Top Community Contributoris a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnusis a Four-Time Past WCoP Champion

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  • Wanted in 49 States
    Hey, I have a question about old RBY lower tiers. I vaguely remember someone saying that in the beginning, OU viability rankings didn't exist and the OU/BL/UU/NU tiering system were the viability rankings for OU, which explains why early tiering systems had a lot of mons that did nothing in their "tiers", and that splitting OU viability from tiering didn't happen until Pokemon Perfect. Since you were around at the time, is this true?
    Hipmonlee
    Hipmonlee
    Yep, that's all correct. Not sure exactly when the change happened, but pokemon perfect sounds about right.
    Melbelle
    I wanted to ask about your post without replying in the thread since it's not very related:
    "Just in the interest of historical accuracy, I wanted to point out that there was no sim enforced freeze or sleep clause until Netbattle. The RBY and GSC eras were both played entirely without freeze clause and with a sleep clause where you simply lose if you sleep multiple pokemon.

    So it's ADV's fault we have a freeze clause today, not RBY's!"

    I'm a little unsure what is meant by this, since as far as I know ADV (and DPP's) freeze clause on Smogon is fairly recent (seemingly June 23 2022)

    So while I understand RBY did not have a freeze clause for its entire history, I don't understand where pinning the "blame" on ADV comes from unless there was a period when RBY/GSC lacked the clause, but ADV did have it.
    Hipmonlee
    Hipmonlee
    My memory is a bit hazy here, but Netbattle definitely didnt support RBY initially. At first it was just GSC, but the main community didnt move over until RS came out. But pretty sure Netbattle had a freeze clause for ADV and GSC, and RBY was played on either PBS or I think RBYBot may have taken over by that point, but neither of which had a freeze clause. Although, now I am starting to question a little whether it was just a sim enforced sleep clause rather than an actual freeze clause as well at that point. I'm not actually certain. But I am certain that PBS and GSBot did not have freeze clause or a sim enforced sleep clause.

    But as simulators change around, rules get changed with them. My suspicion is if ADV didn't have a freeze clause, that was probably due to shoddybattle, since Cathy was probably the biggest driver of actually pursuing cart accuracy above all else.

    Vapicuno might have a better memory than me for ADV history.
    Melbelle
    Melbelle
    Interesting.
    Did Smogon RBY ever lack freeze clause? It seems odd PS or (i believe) PO never implemented it for GSC or ADV if the true origin is from these metas.

    I also believe the justification for Sleep move failures in the past was Stadium's implementation of it, which additionally had Freeze clause as an option. Is there no chance any sim with RBY would have justified a Freeze clause in the early 2000s?
    Hipmonlee
    Hipmonlee
    I dont think there would have been much smogon RBY without freeze clause. You could look back through tournaments for rule sets I guess.

    I think you would have had no problem convincing the community that sim-enforced freeze clause was fine in the early 2000s. It was simply that we didnt have a sim with it implemented.

    The community was by an large comfortable with the focus energy fix on Azure's PBS for instance. Cart purity wasnt a big focus at the time. I think people would have been happy with fixing things that were "obviously broken". And let's be honest, we wouldn't have a hard time convincing the community to have a freeze clause now, and cart purity is a much bigger concept these days.
    Luigi
    hey did you ever play on PBS way back in the day, and if so, do you remember what the battle interface looked like? was it in the same vein as PS, PO, Shoddy and Netbattle with the 2 pokemon occupying a relatively small space and a big text log to the side?
    View previous comments…
    Luigi
    Luigi
    oh i was familiar with porygon’s big show, but i somehow thought pbs stood for pokemon battle simulator and was a different thing, lol
    Luigi
    Luigi
    thanks though
    Hipmonlee
    Hipmonlee
    There were multple PBSes, it usually stood for Pokemon Battle Simulator, but Azure Heights personalised theirs a bit...
    Roy
    was thinking today how absolutely insane we've been around for more than 2 decades. remember fuzion, lesm15, nitro, redwall dude, cloggerdude, gunbladelad, yurika, fish the legend, gk, kuleguy, vineon, jshadias, glalie, soniczoid, metalman or something, wally. and of course ggfan/fire bunny/cool poke/etc. etc.
    we truly grew up in the wild wild west of the internet lmao. hope all is well in nz my friend
    Hipmonlee
    Hipmonlee
    metalmew I think. Man, I miss 4p randbats (proper randbats).

    I do not remember soniczoid though. Haha, so many people.

    Did some guy PM you asking about smogon history as well? Made it click for me that the 20th year anniversary is this year...
    Glalie
    Glalie
    Thats a lot of names i forgot about, wow. I still talk to Lesm from time to time!
    Hipmonlee
    Hipmonlee
    Is he still the wolf?
    YBW
    RBY OU, when is best to play. I am GMT 0 so timezone could be an issue. Are you free to play in your morning any day? I am usually available from 6pm-11pm my time on weekdays. Not sure about this weekend yet
    Hipmonlee
    Hipmonlee
    Mornings are terrible for me. I can do during my lunch break, which I could take early on friday, and that would make it like 10pm your time. Or around 9pm my time most nights, which is 8am for you.
    YBW
    YBW
    Yeah my Thurs 10pm/your Friday 11am is good for me thx for being accommodating, see you then!
    YBW
    YBW
    Hi I'm on PS on main now send chall whenever
    o/
    Sorry to bother you but you're the person I know who's been around for the longest period of time
    Do you know why species clause exists?
    Hipmonlee
    Hipmonlee
    Pretty sure it comes from Stadium 1. But it might predate that even?

    Early RBY had Mewtwo legal, so, basically without species clause the game is unplayable.
    Aether
    Thank you!
    Hello, I happened to come across your Prediction Gudie for RbY. It was a very good read, thank you for having taken the time to write it and make it publicly available here! I was wondering how you know precisely which numbers to assign to the payoff differences between certain choices
    Hipmonlee
    Hipmonlee
    Yeah, that's basically the hard part. The first number you pick is pretty much arbitrary, and then your just asking yourself questions like "is this other outcome a little bit better or a lot better". Even a question like "is this twice as good?" is really hard to judge. To start with just trust your intuition, play some games, and then adjust until you are happy with your results.
    Happy Birthday!
    Hipmonlee
    Hipmonlee
    Thank-you!

    Do you do this for everyone?
    Aether
    Mostly when I'm lurking on people's profiles and notice its their birthday -- happens more often then you'd think
    Hipmonlee
    Hipmonlee
    Yeah, I just checked, turns out there's quite a lot of people with birthdays today! Well, thanks again!
    Isn't this your first badge in like a decade hahaha
    Hipmonlee
    Hipmonlee
    technically no! I got my tiering contrib alumn only recently! But that was my first badge in like a decade.
    ausma
    surprised you didn’t have this sooner tbh
    gz, much deserved
    Hipmonlee
    Hipmonlee
    Yeah, this badge didnt used to exist... Otherwise I probably woulda given it to myself immediately!
    MMII
    Yo, I'm just some random who wants to say that I disagree with your premise in this post that the hax factor is more impactful in good vs bad or great vs bad than in great vs good. I believe the rng plays a stronger role in determining the results of a match when the skill gap between two players is smaller.
    View previous comments…
    MMII
    MMII
    Incidentally, I'm not convinced pokemon is a game with sufficient depth to benefit from completely removing luck based variety. (these things also vary based on the metagame/generation mechanics in question) So I understand your objections to removing rby miss / recover bug.
    Hipmonlee
    Hipmonlee
    So I would say, for at least gen 4 onwards, and probably gen 3 and possibly 2, that you could more or less remove all the RNG without damaging the richness of the game. For Gen 1 specifically though, is a bit too narrow.

    I think the rps in chess comes from choosing what to spend mental bandwidth on, either in calculation or preparation. Although it probably isnt really useful making the comparison.
    MMII
    MMII
    That makes a lot of sense, thanks for responding to me and putting up with my spam.
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