The sets look interesting but for Yveltal I prefer Ice Plate to obliterate Zyg and I like Revelation Dance for cool dark STABthis implies stall is good at all :trollamos:
ok to make this not a one liner heres some wg sweepers that ive been using thats not good but also... not bad?????
ION CANNON (Celesteela) @ Flame Plate
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Shell Smash
- Sunsteel Strike
- Oblivion Wing / Ice Beam
- Judgment
ive stolen like at least 10 games at this point with this celesteela he works kind of well thanks to toxic immune + spikes/tspikes immune + sunsteel/photon resist
Palkia @ Draco Plate
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Rash Nature
- Shell Smash
- Judgment
- Steam Eruption
- Sunsteel Strike
only resists sunsteel and dies to status in general but you get to be immune to zap cannon for no guard mgar + you deal much more damage
Arceus @ Fist Plate
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid / Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shell Smash
- Judgment
- Moongeist Beam
- Taunt
this isnt mine but my god is this guy fucking broken. you dont deal that much damage but late game you are genuinely terrifying once your checks like meloetta coat heal innards have been pursuited to death and every other guy is sufficiently chipped (and it doesnt take much chip)
Alakazam-Mega @ Insect Plate / Dread Plate
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Tail Glow
- Judgment
- Photon Geyser
- Ice Beam / Moonblast / Power Gem / Secret Sword
its uh... its faster/speedties everything barring deo-s and pheromosa (and ninjask but come on no ones using that guy except for av cosmoem) so we don't need smash for speed and as a result can run tail glow for more power
Yveltal @ Pixie Plate
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Rash / Naive Nature
- Shell Smash
- Power Trip
- Photon Geyser
- Judgment
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Metagame USUM Pure Hackmons
- Thread starter NToTheN
- Start date
Why Fur Coat Doublade is bad
Doublade is A+ as of right now. Yes I do know it is going get moved down next VR update but I just wanna make sure it's not in A or A+, plus I like talking about the game.
So, why do I think Doublade Is bad? Simply put, I don't think it's a good MMX wall at all. Being weak to fire is awful as a Fur Coat because fire usually comes in the form of Searing Shot, which is a special move so it ignores Fur Coat, and also V-Create, which is 180 BP so it 2HKOs Fur Coats weak to it (or just flat out OHKOs them if you're Choice Band MMX). One of the main draws it has as a Fur Coat is its fighting immunity, however this isn't really as big of a deal as you would think. Unless you are using your own Doublade to improof (which is honestly really rare), MMX will always run a move alongside Close Combat like Knock Off or Moongeist Beam which allows it to beat Doublade. Because of all that, most of the time you're only really walling physical coverage you're weak to that isn't like 180 BP, which is like Thousand Arrows? In my opinion Thousand Arrows isn't a good move because not only do you miss many of the Wonder Guard steels, but the stuff you can actually hit walls you with Prankster Reflect or Fur Coat most of the time. So yeah, it isn't a good MMX wall, and other then that it doesn't have that much else going for it compared to other steel types. You could probably make the argument Sturdy Doublade is better then Fur Coat because of what I have just said about Thousand Arrows, and just the fact it's more splashable, but this isn't really my point.
What's better then it then?
with Fur Coat
To be fair I don't actually think Solgaleo is that good, but I will say on paper it just seems to outclass Doublade. You get to have a 4x Photon Geyser resist meaning you are less vulnerable to being nuked by CFZs, have an easier time switching into MMX and also don't just lose to Choice Band MMX when rocks are up. Outside of that they're honestly the same, with the weaknesses and all, and you take like 30% from MMX Close Combat so it honestly doesn't really matter that it's not immune to it.
with a fire immune ability.
As I've already established, I don't think Thousand Arrows is that good. I also think that fire is the best coverage for steels that MMX can run seeing as you break through Prankster Reflect and Fur Coat whilst also hitting majority of the Wonder Guard steels (with the ones you don't hit being very rare and not even ranked right now). Following that logic, it would make sense that fire immune Doublade is better. As for whether you run Flash Fire or Primordial Sea, I would say you should run Flash Fire for the surprise factor unless you want to improof Mold Breaker Primal Groudon, seeing as opposing Mold Breaker Primal Groudon (who are already rare) will be running a ground move for you regardless. As well I have used this before (https://pokepast.es/0df44a9b67ff9c37) and it wasn't terrible at all so you can't say I'm wrong because "You can't just say a Pokémon is better on paper it actually needs to have success and usage".
with Fur Coat
In terms of MMX you wall, Fur Coat Slowbro-Mega is honestly pretty similar to fire immune Doublade. Main difference is the lack of a ground weakness, of course you wall Thousand Arrows MMX but more importantly it allows you to be a solid Groudon-Primal check. Getting to wall the vast majority of MMX and also the vast majority of Groudon-Primal (with Water Shuriken especially) is amazing in 1 slot. MMX you actually lose to are Moongeist Beam, which is pretty easily walled by teammates either with Reflect Zygarde-Complete or a Strength Sap Wonder Guard Steel, and also Choice Band sets running coverage for you (that isn't First Impression) but those are unwallable (other then Spore/SSAP Zygarde-Complete who is already a good teamate for it as I've mentioned) and also not that common as they aren't good into offense which is the best archetype so I don't think it matters that much.
Doublade is A+ as of right now. Yes I do know it is going get moved down next VR update but I just wanna make sure it's not in A or A+, plus I like talking about the game.
So, why do I think Doublade Is bad? Simply put, I don't think it's a good MMX wall at all. Being weak to fire is awful as a Fur Coat because fire usually comes in the form of Searing Shot, which is a special move so it ignores Fur Coat, and also V-Create, which is 180 BP so it 2HKOs Fur Coats weak to it (or just flat out OHKOs them if you're Choice Band MMX). One of the main draws it has as a Fur Coat is its fighting immunity, however this isn't really as big of a deal as you would think. Unless you are using your own Doublade to improof (which is honestly really rare), MMX will always run a move alongside Close Combat like Knock Off or Moongeist Beam which allows it to beat Doublade. Because of all that, most of the time you're only really walling physical coverage you're weak to that isn't like 180 BP, which is like Thousand Arrows? In my opinion Thousand Arrows isn't a good move because not only do you miss many of the Wonder Guard steels, but the stuff you can actually hit walls you with Prankster Reflect or Fur Coat most of the time. So yeah, it isn't a good MMX wall, and other then that it doesn't have that much else going for it compared to other steel types. You could probably make the argument Sturdy Doublade is better then Fur Coat because of what I have just said about Thousand Arrows, and just the fact it's more splashable, but this isn't really my point.
What's better then it then?
with Fur CoatTo be fair I don't actually think Solgaleo is that good, but I will say on paper it just seems to outclass Doublade. You get to have a 4x Photon Geyser resist meaning you are less vulnerable to being nuked by CFZs, have an easier time switching into MMX and also don't just lose to Choice Band MMX when rocks are up. Outside of that they're honestly the same, with the weaknesses and all, and you take like 30% from MMX Close Combat so it honestly doesn't really matter that it's not immune to it.
with a fire immune ability.As I've already established, I don't think Thousand Arrows is that good. I also think that fire is the best coverage for steels that MMX can run seeing as you break through Prankster Reflect and Fur Coat whilst also hitting majority of the Wonder Guard steels (with the ones you don't hit being very rare and not even ranked right now). Following that logic, it would make sense that fire immune Doublade is better. As for whether you run Flash Fire or Primordial Sea, I would say you should run Flash Fire for the surprise factor unless you want to improof Mold Breaker Primal Groudon, seeing as opposing Mold Breaker Primal Groudon (who are already rare) will be running a ground move for you regardless. As well I have used this before (https://pokepast.es/0df44a9b67ff9c37) and it wasn't terrible at all so you can't say I'm wrong because "You can't just say a Pokémon is better on paper it actually needs to have success and usage".
with Fur CoatIn terms of MMX you wall, Fur Coat Slowbro-Mega is honestly pretty similar to fire immune Doublade. Main difference is the lack of a ground weakness, of course you wall Thousand Arrows MMX but more importantly it allows you to be a solid Groudon-Primal check. Getting to wall the vast majority of MMX and also the vast majority of Groudon-Primal (with Water Shuriken especially) is amazing in 1 slot. MMX you actually lose to are Moongeist Beam, which is pretty easily walled by teammates either with Reflect Zygarde-Complete or a Strength Sap Wonder Guard Steel, and also Choice Band sets running coverage for you (that isn't First Impression) but those are unwallable (other then Spore/SSAP Zygarde-Complete who is already a good teamate for it as I've mentioned) and also not that common as they aren't good into offense which is the best archetype so I don't think it matters that much.
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252+ Atk Huge Power Mewtwo-Mega-X Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Solgaleo: 198-234 (41.4 - 48.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Mewtwo-Mega-X V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Solgaleo: 396-466 (82.8 - 97.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Mewtwo-Mega-X V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Solgaleo: 396-466 (82.8 - 97.4%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Huge Power Mewtwo-Mega-X Thousand Arrows vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Solgaleo: 198-234 (41.4 - 48.9%) -- 13.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Mewtwo-Mega-X Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Solgaleo: 297-349 (62.1 - 73%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Huge Power Mewtwo-Mega-X Light That Burns the Sky vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Solgaleo: 163-193 (34.1 - 40.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
...
Mewtwo-Mega-X Close Combat vs. Doublade: 0-0 (0 - 0%) -- possibly the worst move ever
252+ Atk Huge Power Mewtwo-Mega-X V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Fur Coat Doublade: 208-246 (64.5 - 76.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Mewtwo-Mega-X V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Fur Coat Doublade: 208-246 (64.5 - 76.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Huge Power Mewtwo-Mega-X Thousand Arrows vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Fur Coat Doublade: 104-124 (32.2 - 38.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Huge Power Mewtwo-Mega-X Light That Burns the Sky vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Doublade: 172-203 (53.4 - 63%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Uh...not sure about that one, pal. Like, at all. You can debate on Fur Coat Slowbro, sure. But Solgaleo? I don't think it is the outclass you think it is. For example, Solgaleo takes like 41% min from MMX CC, not 30%, so it does definitely matter. Also, Solgaleo gets wrecked by V-Create, and Doublade gets wrecked far less. As Well, MMX non-Banded TArrows can 2HKO Solgaleo. It cannot get anywhere close on Doublade. The main thing Solgaleo is good at VS Doublade is that it has a item slot, and that it takes LTBTS better. But saying that Solgaleo is just the improvement? No. Just no. If you want to argue that Doublade is bad, honestly I somewhat agree. But Solgaleo is not the upgrade. Rant over.
252+ Atk Huge Power Mewtwo-Mega-X V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Solgaleo: 396-466 (82.8 - 97.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Mewtwo-Mega-X V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Solgaleo: 396-466 (82.8 - 97.4%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Huge Power Mewtwo-Mega-X Thousand Arrows vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Solgaleo: 198-234 (41.4 - 48.9%) -- 13.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Mewtwo-Mega-X Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Solgaleo: 297-349 (62.1 - 73%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Huge Power Mewtwo-Mega-X Light That Burns the Sky vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Solgaleo: 163-193 (34.1 - 40.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
...
Mewtwo-Mega-X Close Combat vs. Doublade: 0-0 (0 - 0%) -- possibly the worst move ever
252+ Atk Huge Power Mewtwo-Mega-X V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Fur Coat Doublade: 208-246 (64.5 - 76.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Mewtwo-Mega-X V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Fur Coat Doublade: 208-246 (64.5 - 76.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Huge Power Mewtwo-Mega-X Thousand Arrows vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Fur Coat Doublade: 104-124 (32.2 - 38.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Huge Power Mewtwo-Mega-X Light That Burns the Sky vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Doublade: 172-203 (53.4 - 63%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Uh...not sure about that one, pal. Like, at all. You can debate on Fur Coat Slowbro, sure. But Solgaleo? I don't think it is the outclass you think it is. For example, Solgaleo takes like 41% min from MMX CC, not 30%, so it does definitely matter. Also, Solgaleo gets wrecked by V-Create, and Doublade gets wrecked far less. As Well, MMX non-Banded TArrows can 2HKO Solgaleo. It cannot get anywhere close on Doublade. The main thing Solgaleo is good at VS Doublade is that it has a item slot, and that it takes LTBTS better. But saying that Solgaleo is just the improvement? No. Just no. If you want to argue that Doublade is bad, honestly I somewhat agree. But Solgaleo is not the upgrade. Rant over.
Sample test post 
In total there be 9 teams submitted some bad, some good, all of it was torture. I got first on da ladder so now all teams can legally say they got first (ignore the fact that they were used alongside the other 8). Teams will be rated based on the Meloetta scale™ and then the good teams will be given to the rest of the council for their consideration. Any teams submitted after this post won’t be tested for a very VERY long time so don’t try and make me do this again.
https://pokepast.es/61618173978538e6 Team kinda mid. Stag don works fine here, it traps threats ok enough. The kart imp proof is kinda fake, sash imp proofs are trash and pdon only switches in if it’s healthy and after a sack. Gigas, dawn wings and magic guard kart all don’t break well for their own reason. Gigas doesn’t have a mold move, kart lacks a lot of immediate power and the bad imp proof makes it hard to break with it and dawn wings is walled by quite a lot of mons without rocks and ur only rocker is running defog so imp can deny this pretty easily. Aggron works fine I guess.
4 Meloettas™/10https://pokepast.es/6ab6028212b72524 Team good into bal but offence mu suck. Firstly, why is this stag kart. Like your 2 breakers are special attackers so wtf does vcreate and power whip do? The only real reason why I used kart was for first impression against mmy (we will get to that later) and sometimes trap the occasional Melo or oddnose. But ur choice locked into first impression a lot of the time which is basically an invitation for things to setup onto you and your walls won’t be able to help since they both suck as walls (literally every single submitted team except the stall one has a mon that can setup after that and force innards or sweep ur team). Also the team as previously said sucks into most offensive structures since your walls suck (0 mmx photon checks besides innards your sunsteel wall has core enforcer as it’s only attack so good luck killing a kart and there’s not a single sash to be found so once your innards is gone there’s a lot problems that show up. The mu against bal is fine enough I guess and mmy is a pretty nice breaker but otherwise it’s not that good.
5 Meloettas™/10I can’t find the pokepaste for the baton pass team but it doesn’t work as a sample it’s counterplay is really easy for anyone who knows what coming (which is kinda easy since the team is going to be pretty public) and is a horrible intro for any new player.
1 Meloetta™/10https://pokepast.es/131eb2525cfeddb7 very cool team and my personal fav. I'm not too sure on the no guard set but mostly I like this a lot. However as a sample it doesn’t work very well since it’s bal that has 1 wg so no guard is a bitch. I didn’t have many troubles with piloting it. I find it pretty easy to pilot but it isn’t a really a good intro for da new guys. I would suggest you try da team if ur not new do it’s a lot of fun. I could still see a modified version to be more suitable for samples be added however. (For people who going to complain that their team was considered worse then this try the team first you coward).
7 Meloettas™/10https://pokepast.es/3f171860f83b61f4 team soooooo slowwwwwwwww. My speed control is e speed and ice shard and that’s about it. The only mon here that’s faster than mmx is mmy who won’t fix the shitty mu into offence. Team ok into bal besides the fact that their mmx and mmy are still major threats. Also no guard is a fucking horrible mu. Still ok and does work fine I guess.
5 Meloettas™/10https://pokepast.es/6007952853f5ef62 safety goggles Groudon? Kinda weird since you already have a kartana but ok. What do you mean there’s 2. Team has an absurd mu vs some mons like how do you force slowbro and prank zyguard out, yea you can kill them with kart after a shell smash but first you need the shell smash so you can’t actively force them out also kart needs a cfz to kill slowbro and u can’t kill zyguard after wilo/reflect. No attacks on deo s sucks the item selection sucks cus like why tf you need 3 spore immune and I haven’t used dark z once. You also have a pretty slow team but some decent prio to make up for it so it isn’t as bad as other occasions. Being this extremely rocks weak sucks (all ur sash gone and nothing is imp proofed besides innards who don’t kill now)since once deo s dies you can’t remove hazard well and a lot of common rockers can setup rocks on u (slowbro, steelix, aggron, muk on ur mmx and no guards). On the topic of no guard that mu is horrible since your only sleep immunity is safety goggles sing runs over this team and no magic coat on chansey means they can gastro u for free then get a kill. Overall it’s flaws are not all team ruining individually but the amount make it less then optimal.
5 Meloettas™/10https://pokepast.es/314756d305b52267 overall this is the most likely to be added. The mmy is kinda nasty and works well vs most offensive structures and some balance that doesn’t carry a very solid photon absorbing wg. There’s a good amount of speed and priority so it doesn’t get run over as easily as some of the other teams given. The Yveltal does its job well as a mostly pursuit bot for scarf gengar and imp proofing mmy and good prio with sucker. The mmx is the most questionable part of the team and kinda useless for a lot of games. A different stag would probably be better overall. Deo s has some flaws as a lead since it doesn’t have taunt but it works well enough. Kart is a nice breaker for bal that isn’t prepared and forces innards on ho after a shell smash. Additionally wg has proven itself useful in actually walling some really scary mons like slacking at least temporarily.
9 Meloettas™/10https://pokepast.es/bc7d4e1c668120ce I HATE MAGNETON I HATE MAGNETON I HATE MAGNETON I HATE MAGNETON I HATE MAGNETON I HATE MAGNETON. Team works effectively enough (we will get to the elephant in the room later) it loses to some spore shenanigans since u only have 1 spore immunity (we will get to the magneton later) and no trick switch in sucks but overall works effectively. Hoho kinda sucks in a lot of matchups but I guess it works fine besides the fact that I didn’t click light screen in a single game. Water shuriken is pretty questionable since you’re running scizor, slowbro, hoho, Meloetta™ a structure which is very strong vs pdon so having shuriken just kinda makes u shell smash mmx weak when scald would have been way better. Ok let’s get to the magneton. Firstly what the fuck does this do over heatran. Water weak almost never matters and the only move it does matter for, scald slowbro, isn’t exactly something you would want to switch in magneton since burn hurts it quite a lot, takes some notable chip it doesn’t want to have and overall isn’t worth trading your item slot for since rocks scald slowbro isn’t as bad as losing to stagdon. Speaking of stag most stags can pretty easily trap this since even just trick could probably get your magneton killed cus you don’t have any bulk. Equally a lot of tech just runs over magneton like knock off on a hazard setter or just running hazards with an attack since magneton has very little bulk and in exchange for all this you get something that can live SSS from kart if absolutely nothing else chips it which as a magic bouncer you will be inevitably be taking chip from u turns and stuff so like does it really check kart that much better then like hoho? Speaking of hoho, this team is pretty rocks weak. Hoho is obviously rocks weak, Meloetta™ can’t live +2 bug buzz from most moon users, scizor can’t live 2 photons after rocks and for previously said reasons magneton is a pretty fucking shit magic bouncer so the team being this weak to rocks and having this bad of a magic bouncer fucks with the entire team. Overall besides that thing it’s pretty effective. Third best.
8 Meloettas™ and a fucking magneton/10https://pokepast.es/63db99e6371e40aa Team good, most straightforward team I’ve played in a while sack innards against the scary stuff gengar and diance clean house vs ho and kart is good at cleaning bal after you set a couple bombs off and Luna gets a couple kills here and there. Very straightforward shit very nice, some mu sucks a lot and considering the state of ho in Gen 7 it’s not even that bad of an intro for new players. Very nice. Second best.
9 Meloettas™/10IM DONE NO MORE SAMPLES TALK ITS OVER I CAN GO BACK TO PLAYING TEAMS WITH 4 CHOICE ITEMS I DID IT!!!!!!!!!!!
I get 11 Meloettas™ out of 10 cus I’m just that cool
11 Meloettas™/10Attachments
My team isn't last place LETS FUCKING GO
In total there be 9 teams submitted some bad, some good, all of it was torture. I got first on da ladder so now all teams can legally say they got first (ignore the fact that they were used alongside the other 8). Teams will be rated based on the Meloetta scale™ and then the good teams will be given to the rest of the council for their consideration. Any teams submitted after this post won’t be tested for a very VERY long time so don’t try and make me do this again.
https://pokepast.es/61618173978538e6 Team kinda mid. Stag don works fine here, it traps threats ok enough. The kart imp proof is kinda fake, sash imp proofs are trash and pdon only switches in if it’s healthy and after a sack. Gigas, dawn wings and magic guard kart all don’t break well for their own reason. Gigas doesn’t have a mold move, kart lacks a lot of immediate power and the bad imp proof makes it hard to break with it and dawn wings is walled by quite a lot of mons without rocks and ur only rocker is running defog so imp can deny this pretty easily. Aggron works fine I guess.
https://pokepast.es/6ab6028212b72524 Team good into bal but offence mu suck. Firstly, why is this stag kart. Like your 2 breakers are special attackers so wtf does vcreate and power whip do? The only real reason why I used kart was for first impression against mmy (we will get to that later) and sometimes trap the occasional Melo or oddnose. But ur choice locked into first impression a lot of the time which is basically an invitation for things to setup onto you and your walls won’t be able to help since they both suck as walls (literally every single submitted team except the stall one has a mon that can setup after that and force innards or sweep ur team). Also the team as previously said sucks into most offensive structures since your walls suck (0 mmx photon checks besides innards your sunsteel wall has core enforcer as it’s only attack so good luck killing a kart and there’s not a single sash to be found so once your innards is gone there’s a lot problems that show up. The mu against bal is fine enough I guess and mmy is a pretty nice breaker but otherwise it’s not that good.
I can’t find the pokepaste for the baton pass team but it doesn’t work as a sample it’s counterplay is really easy for anyone who knows what coming (which is kinda easy since the team is going to be pretty public) and is a horrible intro for any new player.
https://pokepast.es/131eb2525cfeddb7 very cool team and my personal fav. I'm not too sure on the no guard set but mostly I like this a lot. However as a sample it doesn’t work very well since it’s bal that has 1 wg so no guard is a bitch. I didn’t have many troubles with piloting it. I find it pretty easy to pilot but it isn’t a really a good intro for da new guys. I would suggest you try da team if ur not new do it’s a lot of fun. I could still see a modified version to be more suitable for samples be added however. (For people who going to complain that their team was considered worse then this try the team first you coward).
https://pokepast.es/3f171860f83b61f4 team soooooo slowwwwwwwww. My speed control is e speed and ice shard and that’s about it. The only mon here that’s faster than mmx is mmy who won’t fix the shitty mu into offence. Team ok into bal besides the fact that their mmx and mmy are still major threats. Also no guard is a fucking horrible mu. Still ok and does work fine I guess.
https://pokepast.es/6007952853f5ef62 safety goggles Groudon? Kinda weird since you already have a kartana but ok. What do you mean there’s 2. Team has an absurd mu vs some mons like how do you force slowbro and prank zyguard out, yea you can kill them with kart after a shell smash but first you need the shell smash so you can’t actively force them out also kart needs a cfz to kill slowbro and u can’t kill zyguard after wilo/reflect. No attacks on deo s sucks the item selection sucks cus like why tf you need 3 spore immune and I haven’t used dark z once. You also have a pretty slow team but some decent prio to make up for it so it isn’t as bad as other occasions. Being this extremely rocks weak sucks (all ur sash gone and nothing is imp proofed besides innards who don’t kill now)since once deo s dies you can’t remove hazard well and a lot of common rockers can setup rocks on u (slowbro, steelix, aggron, muk on ur mmx and no guards). On the topic of no guard that mu is horrible since your only sleep immunity is safety goggles sing runs over this team and no magic coat on chansey means they can gastro u for free then get a kill. Overall it’s flaws are not all team ruining individually but the amount make it less then optimal.
https://pokepast.es/314756d305b52267 overall this is the most likely to be added. The mmy is kinda nasty and works well vs most offensive structures and some balance that doesn’t carry a very solid photon absorbing wg. There’s a good amount of speed and priority so it doesn’t get run over as easily as some of the other teams given. The Yveltal does its job well as a mostly pursuit bot for scarf gengar and imp proofing mmy and good prio with sucker. The mmx is the most questionable part of the team and kinda useless for a lot of games. A different stag would probably be better overall. Deo s has some flaws as a lead since it doesn’t have taunt but it works well enough. Kart is a nice breaker for bal that isn’t prepared and forces innards on ho after a shell smash. Additionally wg has proven itself useful in actually walling some really scary mons like slacking at least temporarily.
https://pokepast.es/bc7d4e1c668120ce I HATE MAGNETON I HATE MAGNETON I HATE MAGNETON I HATE MAGNETON I HATE MAGNETON I HATE MAGNETON. Team works effectively enough (we will get to the elephant in the room later) it loses to some spore shenanigans since u only have 1 spore immunity (we will get to the magneton later) and no trick switch in sucks but overall works effectively. Hoho kinda sucks in a lot of matchups but I guess it works fine besides the fact that I didn’t click light screen in a single game. Water shuriken is pretty questionable since you’re running scizor, slowbro, hoho, Meloetta™ a structure which is very strong vs pdon so having shuriken just kinda makes u shell smash mmx weak when scald would have been way better. Ok let’s get to the magneton. Firstly what the fuck does this do over heatran. Water weak almost never matters and the only move it does matter for, scald slowbro, isn’t exactly something you would want to switch in magneton since burn hurts it quite a lot, takes some notable chip it doesn’t want to have and overall isn’t worth trading your item slot for since rocks scald slowbro isn’t as bad as losing to stagdon. Speaking of stag most stags can pretty easily trap this since even just trick could probably get your magneton killed cus you don’t have any bulk. Equally a lot of tech just runs over magneton like knock off on a hazard setter or just running hazards with an attack since magneton has very little bulk and in exchange for all this you get something that can live SSS from kart if absolutely nothing else chips it which as a magic bouncer you will be inevitably be taking chip from u turns and stuff so like does it really check kart that much better then like hoho? Speaking of hoho, this team is pretty rocks weak. Hoho is obviously rocks weak, Meloetta™ can’t live +2 bug buzz from most moon users, scizor can’t live 2 photons after rocks and for previously said reasons magneton is a pretty fucking shit magic bouncer so the team being this weak to rocks and having this bad of a magic bouncer fucks with the entire team. Overall besides that thing it’s pretty effective. Third best.
https://pokepast.es/63db99e6371e40aa Team good, most straightforward team I’ve played in a while sack innards against the scary stuff gengar and diance clean house vs ho and kart is good at cleaning bal after you set a couple bombs off and Luna gets a couple kills here and there. Very straightforward shit very nice, some mu sucks a lot and considering the state of ho in Gen 7 it’s not even that bad of an intro for new players. Very nice. Second best.
IM DONE NO MORE SAMPLES TALK ITS OVER I CAN GO BACK TO PLAYING TEAMS WITH 4 CHOICE ITEMS I DID IT!!!!!!!!!!!
I get 11 Meloettas™ out of 10 cus I’m just that cool
Anyway, to ensure that Ransei doesn't reap this post, I would like to discuss Spore and Safety Goggles, and why Spore might make a comeback once more.
In the beginning, when all was still new, Spore ruled supreme. The nightmares would never truly end, the eternal slumber would slay even the strongest of foes. However, in Generation 6, we were granted the cure at long last. Safety Goggles. No longer was Spore the eternal nightmare it once was. There was actual fucking counterplay that could be put on almost any mon that didn't cripple you for using it. It was a gift from the heavens itself. As time has gone on, however, people have forgotten what it was they once feared. The Shed Shell has begun to take control, as the sins of Spore have been forgotten. The greed has gotten too much. To run Shed Shell is to make a sacrifice. To return to a world of Spore, in exchange for avoiding Shadow Tag. But, if you make that choice, you must be willing to face the consequences. Spore has laid much more dormant then it once was, as the dominance of Safety Goggles has kept it in check. But, as Shed Shell rises, soon, Spore will follow. Beware, stall teams. Your greed to ignore Spore shall return to bring justice. The shifting of the tides, the shifting of the metagame. A eternal tide. A tide that must be feared.
Also to reiterate my team wasn't last place LETS FUCKING GO
ok THIS is an actual sample submission
again i definitely can ladder higher but im not motivated enough and also spam is awful to play against
The Eternal Memory
synopsis: it's setup spam hyper offense. you know it, you love it. one of the main things of this HO is that the improofing scheme is surprisingly sound compared to other HOs, and things like double imposter wont fuck you up most of the time if you play well.now 3+ imposter on the other hand
every shell smasher here can potentially sweep after rocks, although some do it better than others. lead mmy and get rocks up while disrupting with sleep, or lead kyub/slaking predicting a faster hazard lead or prankster spore and instantly get on the high ground while preserving a dangerous no guarder for later. slaking and mgar provides potential outs for opposing offense, slaking and mmx provides instant burst damage, kyub prevents rocks from going up which is absolutely vital considering all the sashes, and innards is innards.
: kyub blanks everything imposter does. slaking can also rk in extremely awful scenarios if you switch into a sing with lum intact.
: if it's not eviolite, slaking kills with fake out > espeed at -1. if it is, slaking takes approximately half from every +2 move and kills with sunsteel > espeed. if you run sunraze instead of sunsteel, innards can improof after you sack yourself.
: unfortunately this is a case where you have to improof with the innards or try and risk the speed tie. gengar might work but you have to really gamble for 3 turns of sleep
: kyub + lum intact slaking can kill it. see weaknesses
: mindef lets slaking kill non-evio imposter after rocks or at -1. it also lives any hit unboosted if it comes to that
note that kyub and mmx can potentially selfproof w/ sash up
weaknesses: if rocks ever go up and you cant remove them at least 3 of your mons are fucked. fortunately both the offensive pressure and the magic bouncer are good enough so they mostly cant get rocks up safely. gengar improof is quite sus, so try to remove imposter before setting up with it if possible. kyub unfortunately does pretty shit damage even after a smash so it's mostly just a lure (and a rocks/spore preventer)
other options:
sunraze > sunsteel on kyub
light that burns the sky > photon on mmx
some bounce kyuw set > kyub
either 196- def or 52- def on slaking (lets +2 mgar ssword ohko non evio imposter at -1, 196- after rocks and 52- without rocks)
also 116- def to let mmx kill -1 with photon geyser (or just lonely nature for mmx to kill -1 after rocks)
deo-s > mmy
again i definitely can ladder higher but im not motivated enough and also spam is awful to play against
The Eternal Memory
synopsis: it's setup spam hyper offense. you know it, you love it. one of the main things of this HO is that the improofing scheme is surprisingly sound compared to other HOs, and things like double imposter wont fuck you up most of the time if you play well.
every shell smasher here can potentially sweep after rocks, although some do it better than others. lead mmy and get rocks up while disrupting with sleep, or lead kyub/slaking predicting a faster hazard lead or prankster spore and instantly get on the high ground while preserving a dangerous no guarder for later. slaking and mgar provides potential outs for opposing offense, slaking and mmx provides instant burst damage, kyub prevents rocks from going up which is absolutely vital considering all the sashes, and innards is innards.
: kyub blanks everything imposter does. slaking can also rk in extremely awful scenarios if you switch into a sing with lum intact.: if it's not eviolite, slaking kills with fake out > espeed at -1. if it is, slaking takes approximately half from every +2 move and kills with sunsteel > espeed. if you run sunraze instead of sunsteel, innards can improof after you sack yourself.: unfortunately this is a case where you have to improof with the innards or try and risk the speed tie. gengar might work but you have to really gamble for 3 turns of sleep: kyub + lum intact slaking can kill it. see weaknesses: mindef lets slaking kill non-evio imposter after rocks or at -1. it also lives any hit unboosted if it comes to thatnote that kyub and mmx can potentially selfproof w/ sash up
weaknesses: if rocks ever go up and you cant remove them at least 3 of your mons are fucked. fortunately both the offensive pressure and the magic bouncer are good enough so they mostly cant get rocks up safely. gengar improof is quite sus, so try to remove imposter before setting up with it if possible. kyub unfortunately does pretty shit damage even after a smash so it's mostly just a lure (and a rocks/spore preventer)
other options:
sunraze > sunsteel on kyub
light that burns the sky > photon on mmx
some bounce kyuw set > kyub
either 196- def or 52- def on slaking (lets +2 mgar ssword ohko non evio imposter at -1, 196- after rocks and 52- without rocks)
also 116- def to let mmx kill -1 with photon geyser (or just lonely nature for mmx to kill -1 after rocks)
deo-s > mmy
So...KyuremB. Uh...the Mon with 170 Attack, running a set with two special moves, and the only physical move isn't even STAB. Why KyuremB over like KyuremW? Your complaints about a lack of power are mainly because you are using a physical Mon with only one physical move without STAB and two special moves from 120 SpA, when you could use KyuremW, which has 170 SpA to use the STAB Freeze Dry. Idk, but KyuremB feels like a random pick here.ok THIS is an actual sample submission
View attachment 742590
again i definitely can ladder higher but im not motivated enough and also spam is awful to play against
The Eternal Memory
synopsis: it's setup spam hyper offense. you know it, you love it. one of the main things of this HO is that the improofing scheme is surprisingly sound compared to other HOs, and things like double imposter wont fuck you up most of the time if you play well.now 3+ imposter on the other hand
every shell smasher here can potentially sweep after rocks, although some do it better than others. lead mmy and get rocks up while disrupting with sleep, or lead kyub/slaking predicting a faster hazard lead or prankster spore and instantly get on the high ground while preserving a dangerous no guarder for later. slaking and mgar provides potential outs for opposing offense, slaking and mmx provides instant burst damage, kyub prevents rocks from going up which is absolutely vital considering all the sashes, and innards is innards.
note that kyub and mmx can potentially selfproof w/ sash up
weaknesses: if rocks ever go up and you cant remove them at least 3 of your mons are fucked. fortunately both the offensive pressure and the magic bouncer are good enough so they mostly cant get rocks up safely. gengar improof is quite sus, so try to remove imposter before setting up with it if possible. kyub unfortunately does pretty shit damage even after a smash so it's mostly just a lure (and a rocks/spore preventer)
other options:
sunraze > sunsteel on kyub
light that burns the sky > photon on mmx
some bounce kyuw set > kyub
either 196- def or 52- def on slaking (lets +2 mgar ssword ohko non evio imposter at -1, 196- after rocks and 52- without rocks)
also 116- def to let mmx kill -1 with photon geyser (or just lonely nature for mmx to kill -1 after rocks)
deo-s > mmy
Haven't tried this team or really looked at it much yet but I believe it's because Freeze Dry and Searing Shot are moves their targets are x4 weak to (or otherwise carrying significantly lower SpD than Def like Doublade and Mega Slowbro, leaving them overall consistently effective to a considerable extent despite Black Kyurem having base 120 SpA. However, when using White Kyurem, it noticeably lacks great damage output with Sunsteel Strike, making even Mega Audino able to stomach a x2 Atk Sunsteel Strike pretty well. Mega Audino tends to be a big target for Kyurems they lack a x4 effective move for, but at least with Black Kyurem, you have a chance of OHKOing Mega Audino with x2 Atk. It's a roll and how big of a roll it is depends on whether the Mega Aud is +Def or +SpD, but it becomes much more effective against Mega Audino than any White Kyurem set is while still hitting Pokemon like Mega Scizor, Zygarde-C, and Ferrothorn incredibly effectively.
+2 252 Atk Lucario-Mega Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Audino-Mega: 434-512 (105.8 - 124.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Lucario-Mega Freeze-Dry vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Zygarde-Complete: 580-684 (91.1 - 107.5%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Lucario-Mega Searing Shot vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Scizor-Mega: 796-940 (231.3 - 273.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Ok I know this is probably worse, but it does meet the qualifications for the teamslot, while doing far more damage with Sunsteel Strike. I know this is probably worse in other ways, but it is funny, and it does the job.
Kyurem's specific niche on that team is to block sheer cold while serving as an attacker and still carrying a useful ability in Magic Bounce. That's why it's being used over examples such as Mega Lucario or a Wonder Guard.
maybe you would want to put photon on mmy? it seems like the surprise factor is the only reason for mmy on that slot anywayok THIS is an actual sample submission
View attachment 742590
again i definitely can ladder higher but im not motivated enough and also spam is awful to play against
The Eternal Memory
synopsis: it's setup spam hyper offense. you know it, you love it. one of the main things of this HO is that the improofing scheme is surprisingly sound compared to other HOs, and things like double imposter wont fuck you up most of the time if you play well.now 3+ imposter on the other hand
every shell smasher here can potentially sweep after rocks, although some do it better than others. lead mmy and get rocks up while disrupting with sleep, or lead kyub/slaking predicting a faster hazard lead or prankster spore and instantly get on the high ground while preserving a dangerous no guarder for later. slaking and mgar provides potential outs for opposing offense, slaking and mmx provides instant burst damage, kyub prevents rocks from going up which is absolutely vital considering all the sashes, and innards is innards.
note that kyub and mmx can potentially selfproof w/ sash up
weaknesses: if rocks ever go up and you cant remove them at least 3 of your mons are fucked. fortunately both the offensive pressure and the magic bouncer are good enough so they mostly cant get rocks up safely. gengar improof is quite sus, so try to remove imposter before setting up with it if possible. kyub unfortunately does pretty shit damage even after a smash so it's mostly just a lure (and a rocks/spore preventer)
other options:
sunraze > sunsteel on kyub
light that burns the sky > photon on mmx
some bounce kyuw set > kyub
either 196- def or 52- def on slaking (lets +2 mgar ssword ohko non evio imposter at -1, 196- after rocks and 52- without rocks)
also 116- def to let mmx kill -1 with photon geyser (or just lonely nature for mmx to kill -1 after rocks)
deo-s > mmy
but also no wonder guards seems risky... after bliss is dead and rocks are up you don't have much to stop a sweep
but at the same time most sweepers are running moldy moves so it's debatable
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Imo WGs are not mandatory on HOs because its main purpose is not to be sweeped by NG. Innards work well for this. You just have to hope the opponent has only 1 NG
for the first point, anything works but compared to deo-s, mmy has other usable sets than just hazard lead so your opponent has to know the team to assume it is, while with deo-s on a structure like this its pretty easy to assume that's the lead and not something like mgar or mmx
for the second point, the entire point of the team is that rocks should never be going up our side from offensive pressure + the bouncer so we can utilize the 4 sashes to stopgap opposing sweepers
How Defensive Counterplay is Real and Why Stall Is A Real Archetype
As far as I am aware, common opinion is that stall one of the worst archetypes because the offense is too good. When I say "the offense", I don't mean offense as an archetype but rather just the Pokémon. Main reason people say this is because MMX is able to run coverage for anything it wants and in its 4 slots can cover most of the game, and aswell there is too many sets answered by a few B ranked Pokémon. Now what I'm going to try to do in this post is prove that defensive counterplay is real on stall and that it's a good archetype.
Checklist
Here's a list of everything you will reasonably need to cover to help better visualise it.
-MMX
-Huge Power and No Guard Kartana
-PDon
-Harvest Slaking
-General MGeist coverage fishes
- Sunsteel/Geist/Fairy 
-No Guard MMY
-General Special Photon?
-No Guard TSpikes Taunt MGar
-WG Sweepers
When I lay it out like this, it does seem more manageable. Building stall is generally just about stacking as many hard answers to these Pokémon as optimally as possible. For this reason stuff like Zygarde-Complete isn't actually that good on stall as it isn't a hard answer to most things on this list outside of potentially MGeist MMX and some WG sweepers, but there are other options who can do that and other things at once making them better options. I will go through everything here one by one and how you can answer them, and finally I will provide example stall teams.
MMX
While it's true MMX can run coverage for anything, it will not often run certain moves together and this can be taken advantage of, meaning for the most part you can wall MMX. It is however worth noting that Band MMX doesn't really have walls outside of certain Prankster SSap Pokémon, but not covering for it properly is more reasonable seeing as it isn't very common right now due to being prediction reliant, STag food, and not great into offense outside of First Impression which is exploitable.
The most optimal way to wall MMX is using Fur Coat Slowbro paired with a Pokémon able to answer Photon Geyser/Sunsteel Strike/Close Combat/Moongeist Beam MMX. Excluding Choice Band, FC Mbro is able to answer all MMX running some form of physical coverage for it, seeing as there isn't a 180BP non CFZ physical move it's weak to cough cough Doublade. Because of this the only move MMX will reasonably run that beats you is special ghost (Moongeist Beam or Ghost Judgement). Because special ghost already hits Doublade, people will pair it with a fighting move (typically Close Combat) as it also allows you to hit darks in the same slot. Fire + Ghost would be unoptimal as you would have to dedicate an extra slot to darks (or just miss them), which is why you typically see fire with bug, or electric/grass on Photon Geyser less sets to hit either Ho-Oh or Mpert. You can take advantage of this, and pair FC Mbro with an SSap WG steel who answers the set without a Life Orb, and with a Life Orb can't switch into Photon but it's relatively easy to play around, or you can pair it with Prankster Celesteela or Zygarde-Complete. The most optimal combination would be Prankster SSap Celesteela + Fur Coat Slowbro-Mega, because not only does this answer essentially every 4 move MMX (and most band sets seeing as they typically run a fighting move), but Prankster Celesteela acts as both a Huge Power or No Guard Fissure Kartana check in one and also and answer to Suneteel/Geist/Fairy. I also think it's worth noting Doublade with a fire immune ability is very similar to FC Mbro in the MMX sets it checks, but due to it's ground weakness and lack of Scald/Water Shuriken STAB it is a much less relaible PDon check making it less optimal to run.
Instead of FC Mbro, you can also run STag. STag has its pros and cons. While yes it does serve as a PDon and MMX answer in one, you are kind of just fishing for them not to have Shed Shell. You also get Trick Scarf giving you a better match up into harvest but at the cost of losing utility. Running STag also means it takes more skill to play because you actually need the STag Pokémon infront of the thing you need to kill. I would reccomend this set (https://pokepast.es/c73d241e37fc1435) for the most part but you can also run STag MMX with First Impression. This MMY allows you to kill multiple MMX rather then relying on a CFZ, and aswell STag is probablys one of the best answers to Choice Band MMX.
Kartana
Kartana is potentially the most influencing Pokémon for stall cores, and it has 2 sets you will need to answer. I'll make a list of every way you can answer both No Guard and Huge Power Kartana on stall.
-Prankster Celesteela
Prankster Celesteela is arguably the most optimal choice for a few reasons. It serves as an answer to MGeist MMX, Sunsteel/Geist/Fairy, and both Huge Power and Fissure Kartana. The main negatives of Prankster Celesteela are that you won't have an answer to Sheer Cold Kartana or Sunsteel/Electric/Fissure, but imo it's worth the draws. By running Prankster Celesteela it also means you can't run another Prankster user which you would typically want to use as a strong answer to special attackers, such as Ho-Oh, but cores without a Prankster Steel have their own issues too so I won't necessarily consider it a negative.
-Prankster Steelix-Mega/Aggron-Mega + Wonder Guard Steel
Having to answer Kartana in 2 slots is generally a negative because obviously that takes up more slots and it makesnit harder to play against multiple, outside of CFZs it doesn't actually do much over Celesteela in terms of hard answering anything on that list and Celesteela gets to answer Sunsteel/Geist/Fairy so imo Prank Celesteela is a better choice.
-Sturdy Heatran
Sturdy does 2 things for Heatran. First of all it means you don't just lose to Gastro Acid + Fissure, and second of all it let's you answer both Huge Power and No Guard Kartana in the same slot. Sturdy Heatran is the only way to answer both Kartana variants whilst serving as a "Wonder Guard". Main negatives I can think of are that despite being a Wonder Guard Steel, you don't answer MGeist MMX, and unlike Prankster Celesteela you don't answer Sunsteel/Geist/Fairy relaibley because of Protean MMY. Using Sturdy Heatran enables you to not run a Prankster steel however which is nice.
-Wonder Guard Steel + MBounce 4x steel resist
This method takes 2 slots which is generally a negative. Being forced to run a Wonder Guard steel means you dont exactly have a hard answer to MGeist MMX (though I don't think that's a huge drawback), but the main issues are you either have to run MBounce Magneton who has to hold an eviolite or Heatran who is wean to water meaning opposing Scald MBro are a concern and it is a sketch improof to your own. Both are also 4x ground weak which you may see as a negative for an MBouncer but personally I think it's fine as the only real thing running TWaves and hazards is MBounce Zygarde-Complete, who gets harrased by Shed Shell Imposter anyways.
PDon
As established earlier, you really should be running FC Mbro so this shouldn't be a huge concern. You may be saying "well pdon can tech for fc mbro in the form of something like freeze dry", which is correct, however by running Water Shuriken all set up PDon lose. Running Water Shuriken does have its drawbacks however, you can't really pressure Magic Bouncers at all if you are running hazards on Mbro and you also can't answer Shell Smash MMX. Defensive Magic Bouncers aren't that common nowadays from what I see and it's not like having Scald is going to necessarily win you a game against them anyways, plus this only applies if Mbro actually does have hazards. For Shell Smash MMX, I don't see it that much and it is possible they can run coverage for you regardless, but if you have another Pokémon on your team that can relaibley answer it then it shouldn't be a concern anyways. I think it's generally team dependent, and if your core is also already strong into PDon then Water Shuriken maybe less incentivisng, but overall I prefer Water Shuriken. There is one PDon set you will however not be able to answer with just FC Mbro, which is Choice Band Mold Breaker. Issue with it really is that the answers to it are quite limited, the 2 answers to it are Prankster Slowbro-Mega and Prankster Ho-Oh. Prankster Ho-Oh is fine (and probablys the best Prankster user for teams without a Prankster steel anyways), but Prankster Mbro shouldn't really be ran most of the time because it means you aren't running FC Mbro which means your Pdon and MMX answers are in 2 separate slots making running it less optimal. Choice Band Mold Breaker Pdon isn't very common at all seeing as it isn't great into offense in a very offense orientated meta and it is also very prediction reliant and can take time to break times so you can get away with not preparing for it. It's not an auto loss facing it anyways as after rocks chip it dies to Water Shuriken, they need to get multiple predictions right and Imposter is able to switch into it.
Just to point out I wrote all of that before I added the part to the MMX section about STag. With this set (https://pokepast.es/c73d241e37fc1435) you want to click LTBTS on PDon if they haven't set up, and Water Shuriken if they have Shell Smashed, because Water Shuriken doesn't OHKO unless they Shell Smash. Also one of the better answers to Mold Breaker Choice Band PDon.
Harvest Slaking
Harvest Slaking isn't very common right now because as I have mentioned the meta is very offense orientated, but it is still worth preparing for and isn't terribly hard to prepare for either. All stall teams want a move that forces it out with the main ones being Taunt, Core Enforcer and Whirlwind/Roar. If you are running a Prankster Steel, just give it Taunt and that'll do. If you aren't running one, try slot Core Enforcer or Whirlwind/Roar on one of your sunsteel resists. A move that can force it out isn't enough however because it can just keep coming in and out to PP stall you, so you will want either TSpikes or if you're running STag then giving it Trick should do. TSpikes is generally enough unless they have Alolan-Muk in which case it could be a problem, but I wouldn't give it too much thought because Harvest Slaking is rarely seen now anyways.
MGeist Coverage Fishes
By MGeist coverage fishes, I mean sets that have Shell Smash and MGeist, with the other 2 moves being coverage for MGeist walls. There are a few ways I would reccomend going about this. First of all, just run 2 MGeist walls (either like Mbounce Yveltal or a Wonder Guard). It is not very likely they have both coverage moves that can actually hit both MGeist walls, especially considering if they do run 2 coverage moves like that they will get walled by any team with Zygarde-Complete. Meloetta at full tanks Bug Buzz from even Gengar-Mega and kills it back with Spectral Thief, and the only way Meloetta actually will take chip is if they can force hazards up through MBounce, in which chase chances are you're cooked anyways. You can also run a core like Arceus + Meloetta which should answer pretty much answer all MGeist coverage fish sets because running fighting and bug together is counter intuitive because you have 2 moves that hit dark. Secondly, if you aren't running a Prankster steel then you can just run something like Prankster Ho-Oh who answers all of these sets assuming they can't get rocks up. And finally, Sturdy Muk is a really solid MGeist answer because people will usuall rely on Fissure as their method of hitting Alolan-Muk rather then Earth Power which generally isn't worth using. One concern with Alolan-Muk however is that because you resist MGeist, Dawn Wings does like 80% with its CFZ to you at +2. It also means after like quite a bit of hazard chip Gengar-Mega can possibly break you but again if they can get hazards up through MBounce chances are you're cooked anyways.
Sunsteel/Geist/Fairy
Sunsteel/Geist/Fairy is essentially just a really broken 3 move set, which is usually ran by Protean MMY. I only really see Aerobee run it, but I still think it's worth prepping for and it's a very good set. Because Protean MMY is immune to SThief, walls to it are very limited. There are about 3 ways you can wall it. First is WG Bisharp, who doesn't do much else other then answer Protean MMY and is weak to Fissure so it's unviable on stall. Second is Prankster steels, I'm not sure on the calcs with Mlix but Prankster Celesteela walls it and if you are going to run a Prankster Steel that's the most viable choice anyways. Finally, Prankster Ho-Oh is able to wall it. While yes the answers are limited, at the very least cores with and without a Prank Steel can answer it.
No Guard MMY
It's a rare set you could probablys get away with not prepping for but I'll go over it anyways. There are 2 (or 3 I guess) variants of this set. First of all are the variants that run Sing, using the moves Sing/Photon/Zap Cannon/Fissure. The most obvious answer to this is Meloetta and Wonder Guard steels might be fine but I haven't done the calcs. Second of all is the beat up variants which opt for Beat Up over Sing. Beat Up allows them to kill Innards and Meloetta in 1 slot, at the cost of missing WG steels, so obviously you answer it with a Wonder Guard steel. Finally there's variants that opt for Shell Smash over Beat Up or Sing, I've never see one but I suppose Meloetta or a WG steel with SThief would work. If you don't cover all of these I wouldn't worry because they are barely used.
General Special Photon
To be honest, I don't exactly know what special photon looks like. There's the Spore sets with MGeist and Photon, which you would just answer with a Safety Goggles Prankster Pokémon, a Wonder Guard that resists both moves (ideally with goggles) or MBounce Yveltal. I already went over No Guard, and I suppose they could also spam coverage picking between Steels, Muk, Yveltal, Zygarde, and Meloetta/Gyarados but I've never seen such a set and you would probably cover for it the similar to how you do with MGeist coverage fishing anyways. I have never really had issues with special Photon though and it isn't that good so it's fine.
No Guard TSpikes Taunt MGar
This is a more recent set but it's really good at forcing up TSpikes enabling teammates like Taunt WG Arceus, and in general if they are up you're not in a very good spot. The set on Akira's sample Clockup Flowers runs Taunt/TSpikes/MGeist/Fissure, and more recently Aerobee has been swapping out MGeist for Zap Cannon. Both sets are kind of answered by an MCoat MGeist resisting Wonder Guard, I say kind of because if the Wonder Guard isn't in on it you have to play a 50/50 on whether you go to an MBounce user or your Wonder Guard and then another 50/50 on whether you defog predicting them to switch out or click MCoat predicting them to Taunt, and the 50/50s aren't really in tour favour. MBounce Yveltal is the only Pokémon who can actually do something other then answer this set who answers the version on the sample, although if you want to answer borh the Zap Cannon variant and the MGeist one you have to run MBounce Zapdos. If you actually have the option to just slap whatever in your MBounce slot, I will say Zapdos is worth it over say Zygarde-Complete because Aerobee's teams are the best teams in the game.
WG Sweepers
There is exactly one good WG sweeper in the game, Taunt Arceus. Answering WG Taunt Arceus isn't too difficult, you need either Audino-Mega or Meloetta with Magic Coat, or you just run Audino-Mega and Meloetta and spam switch between them. TSpikes also denys it from coming in, and if you give a mon that can tank a hit from it Toxic you honestly should be fine. The others are Gyarados-Mega, Ash-Greninja and Hoopa-Unbound. If your team is good you already have an answer for Gyarados-Mega, for Ash-Greninja I honestly couldn't tell you but it is irrelevant anyways, and for Hoopa-Unbound that's even more irrelevant then Ash-Greninja and has the same walls except it drops to U-Turn so it's easier to answer. If you're running STag then First Impression kinda deals with these too.
Examples
Now that I have told you how you can optimally fit answers for everything, I will show you some examples of teams which do so. These teams cover about most of the game and their main issues are not being able to make good progress into defensive MBouncera and also anything that is able to force hazards up, which are more so issues with hard stall in general. Click on sprites for team.
The amount this team covers is pretty insane. Prank Celesteela + FC Mbro is incredibly solid into the vast majority of MMX sets, with the only problamatic ones I can think of maybe being Shell Smash with a fire moves and Choice Band with Fire and Bug. Prank Celesteela is solid into most Kartana people use, because of Heatran people are pretty much always gonna opt for Fissure over Sheer Cold and I don't ever see Bolt Strike, Huge Power Kartana with a fire move could be a concern but that isn't really ran atm. PDon MU is incredibly sold, the only potentially problematic set being CB Mold Breaker which isn't ran and can be played around. Harvest Slaking MU is fine unless they have a TSpikes absorber but Harvest Slaking has fell off anyways due to how good offense is. MGeist MU is incredibly solid, Steela walls Sunsteel/Geist/Fairy and coverage fish sets can't cover for all of MAud, Meloetta and Prank Steela. Special Photon is fine? I'm not sure if people run Photon/Bug Buzz/Searing Shot but if they do I suppose that could be a concern. This team had the room to fit Zapdos so I ran it, which is just a blatant Aerobee CTeam but definitely worth it imo. WG sweepers are fine, WG Taunt Arc is answered by spam switching between both Wonder Guards, Gyara gets walled by Steela, and I'm not sure what Ash-Greninja or Hoopa-Unbound run and I don't care what Ash Greninja or Hoopa-Unbound run. Pretty solid team but issues are spam in general, things that can force hazards up through MBounce Zapdos (like Taunt/Spikes Mold Breaker Gyara or something) and opposing MBounce you can't make progress against but the stall vs stall MU is more or less a tie. Honestly wish I submitted this team instead of the Magneton one.
This is the team the most people will recognise because I submitted it as a sample. Prankster Ho-Oh essentially beats all special attackers that aren't Sheer Cold. Sheer Cold isn't ran over Fissure on special attackers really at all atm, and Meloetta should be fine for them. It walls Zap Cannon MMY regardless but the Wonder Guard Core deals with it if you are scared of para hacks. MMX MU is similar to the prior team except LO triple moldy MMX is slightly problematic as it can 2HKO Scizor with Photon on switch in, however it's definitely playable as the thing chips itself down over time plus isn't a common set due to the lack of priority. PDon is essentially solved. Kartana MU is arguably worse then the last team because the Kartana answers are spread out over 2 Pokémon meaning multiple Kartana could pose more of a threat. MCoat Meloetta allows it to answer Taunt WG Arceus, and provides more room to play around NG Taunt TSpikes MGar all though the MU isn't in your favour. Magneton not having an Eviolite means that STag Pdon is a concern especially considering how much this team hates rocks being up, and outside of that it has the same issues as the other team so I don't like this one as much.
This team opts for STag MMY instead of FC MBro meaning that Shed Shell MMX or PDon could be a concern, but the team has a better MU into CB MMX and Harvest Slaking mainly. Prankster Doublade is to not stack a fighting weakness with Ferrothorn who I ran over Scizor because I didn't need it to wall MGeist MMX. Meloetta and MBounce Yveltal is pretty good into MGeist and special Photon all though this team doesn't have an answer for Sunsteel/Geist/Fairy, Searing Shot Hoopa-Unbound or Ash-Greninja could also pose a threat. This team was made before WG Taunt Arceus really took off but MCoat Meloetta could probably be slotted in if needed. NG Taunt MGar MU is fine until it's Zap Cannon, to be fair MGar Zap Cannon does like 40% but chances are you get para haxed. Kartana MU is pretty similar to the prior team. Rest of the issues are the same as the other teams really (general stall issues), all though Knock Off Yveltal means Shed Shell Imposter isn't a concern.
Conclusion
Hopefully by now you agree that stall is an actually good archetype, because common opinion is that it isn't that good. I have also hopefully proved defensive counterplay is real on stall, but for balance I couldn't say the same thing. Balance isn't able to stack checks to things like stall can (e.g. Kartana checks) and also struggles to fit things like Fur Coats so balance defensive cores end up being a lot worse, and balance also isn't really going to be out offensing good offense. As well from playing against balance with stall they're also pretty easy to wall and they can't make progress into MBounce. The prevelance of spam hurts, but semistalls with Mold Breaker Pokémon that set hazards and remove items plus a perish trap Pokémon or Harvest Slaking semistalls are not that common which is good for stall. Overall, I actually think stall is more consistent then balance now, and thus a better archetype. I'll probably get flamed for this opinion, all though atleast Aerobee agrees with me. Thank you for reading, goodbye.
As far as I am aware, common opinion is that stall one of the worst archetypes because the offense is too good. When I say "the offense", I don't mean offense as an archetype but rather just the Pokémon. Main reason people say this is because MMX is able to run coverage for anything it wants and in its 4 slots can cover most of the game, and aswell there is too many sets answered by a few B ranked Pokémon. Now what I'm going to try to do in this post is prove that defensive counterplay is real on stall and that it's a good archetype.
Checklist
Here's a list of everything you will reasonably need to cover to help better visualise it.
-MMX
-Huge Power and No Guard Kartana
-PDon
-Harvest Slaking
-General MGeist coverage fishes
- Sunsteel/Geist/Fairy
-No Guard MMY
-General Special Photon?
-No Guard TSpikes Taunt MGar
-WG Sweepers
When I lay it out like this, it does seem more manageable. Building stall is generally just about stacking as many hard answers to these Pokémon as optimally as possible. For this reason stuff like Zygarde-Complete isn't actually that good on stall as it isn't a hard answer to most things on this list outside of potentially MGeist MMX and some WG sweepers, but there are other options who can do that and other things at once making them better options. I will go through everything here one by one and how you can answer them, and finally I will provide example stall teams.
MMX
While it's true MMX can run coverage for anything, it will not often run certain moves together and this can be taken advantage of, meaning for the most part you can wall MMX. It is however worth noting that Band MMX doesn't really have walls outside of certain Prankster SSap Pokémon, but not covering for it properly is more reasonable seeing as it isn't very common right now due to being prediction reliant, STag food, and not great into offense outside of First Impression which is exploitable.
The most optimal way to wall MMX is using Fur Coat Slowbro paired with a Pokémon able to answer Photon Geyser/Sunsteel Strike/Close Combat/Moongeist Beam MMX. Excluding Choice Band, FC Mbro is able to answer all MMX running some form of physical coverage for it, seeing as there isn't a 180BP non CFZ physical move it's weak to cough cough Doublade. Because of this the only move MMX will reasonably run that beats you is special ghost (Moongeist Beam or Ghost Judgement). Because special ghost already hits Doublade, people will pair it with a fighting move (typically Close Combat) as it also allows you to hit darks in the same slot. Fire + Ghost would be unoptimal as you would have to dedicate an extra slot to darks (or just miss them), which is why you typically see fire with bug, or electric/grass on Photon Geyser less sets to hit either Ho-Oh or Mpert. You can take advantage of this, and pair FC Mbro with an SSap WG steel who answers the set without a Life Orb, and with a Life Orb can't switch into Photon but it's relatively easy to play around, or you can pair it with Prankster Celesteela or Zygarde-Complete. The most optimal combination would be Prankster SSap Celesteela + Fur Coat Slowbro-Mega, because not only does this answer essentially every 4 move MMX (and most band sets seeing as they typically run a fighting move), but Prankster Celesteela acts as both a Huge Power or No Guard Fissure Kartana check in one and also and answer to Suneteel/Geist/Fairy. I also think it's worth noting Doublade with a fire immune ability is very similar to FC Mbro in the MMX sets it checks, but due to it's ground weakness and lack of Scald/Water Shuriken STAB it is a much less relaible PDon check making it less optimal to run.
Instead of FC Mbro, you can also run STag. STag has its pros and cons. While yes it does serve as a PDon and MMX answer in one, you are kind of just fishing for them not to have Shed Shell. You also get Trick Scarf giving you a better match up into harvest but at the cost of losing utility. Running STag also means it takes more skill to play because you actually need the STag Pokémon infront of the thing you need to kill. I would reccomend this set (https://pokepast.es/c73d241e37fc1435) for the most part but you can also run STag MMX with First Impression. This MMY allows you to kill multiple MMX rather then relying on a CFZ, and aswell STag is probablys one of the best answers to Choice Band MMX.
Kartana
Kartana is potentially the most influencing Pokémon for stall cores, and it has 2 sets you will need to answer. I'll make a list of every way you can answer both No Guard and Huge Power Kartana on stall.
-Prankster Celesteela
Prankster Celesteela is arguably the most optimal choice for a few reasons. It serves as an answer to MGeist MMX, Sunsteel/Geist/Fairy, and both Huge Power and Fissure Kartana. The main negatives of Prankster Celesteela are that you won't have an answer to Sheer Cold Kartana or Sunsteel/Electric/Fissure, but imo it's worth the draws. By running Prankster Celesteela it also means you can't run another Prankster user which you would typically want to use as a strong answer to special attackers, such as Ho-Oh, but cores without a Prankster Steel have their own issues too so I won't necessarily consider it a negative.
-Prankster Steelix-Mega/Aggron-Mega + Wonder Guard Steel
Having to answer Kartana in 2 slots is generally a negative because obviously that takes up more slots and it makesnit harder to play against multiple, outside of CFZs it doesn't actually do much over Celesteela in terms of hard answering anything on that list and Celesteela gets to answer Sunsteel/Geist/Fairy so imo Prank Celesteela is a better choice.
-Sturdy Heatran
Sturdy does 2 things for Heatran. First of all it means you don't just lose to Gastro Acid + Fissure, and second of all it let's you answer both Huge Power and No Guard Kartana in the same slot. Sturdy Heatran is the only way to answer both Kartana variants whilst serving as a "Wonder Guard". Main negatives I can think of are that despite being a Wonder Guard Steel, you don't answer MGeist MMX, and unlike Prankster Celesteela you don't answer Sunsteel/Geist/Fairy relaibley because of Protean MMY. Using Sturdy Heatran enables you to not run a Prankster steel however which is nice.
-Wonder Guard Steel + MBounce 4x steel resist
This method takes 2 slots which is generally a negative. Being forced to run a Wonder Guard steel means you dont exactly have a hard answer to MGeist MMX (though I don't think that's a huge drawback), but the main issues are you either have to run MBounce Magneton who has to hold an eviolite or Heatran who is wean to water meaning opposing Scald MBro are a concern and it is a sketch improof to your own. Both are also 4x ground weak which you may see as a negative for an MBouncer but personally I think it's fine as the only real thing running TWaves and hazards is MBounce Zygarde-Complete, who gets harrased by Shed Shell Imposter anyways.
PDon
As established earlier, you really should be running FC Mbro so this shouldn't be a huge concern. You may be saying "well pdon can tech for fc mbro in the form of something like freeze dry", which is correct, however by running Water Shuriken all set up PDon lose. Running Water Shuriken does have its drawbacks however, you can't really pressure Magic Bouncers at all if you are running hazards on Mbro and you also can't answer Shell Smash MMX. Defensive Magic Bouncers aren't that common nowadays from what I see and it's not like having Scald is going to necessarily win you a game against them anyways, plus this only applies if Mbro actually does have hazards. For Shell Smash MMX, I don't see it that much and it is possible they can run coverage for you regardless, but if you have another Pokémon on your team that can relaibley answer it then it shouldn't be a concern anyways. I think it's generally team dependent, and if your core is also already strong into PDon then Water Shuriken maybe less incentivisng, but overall I prefer Water Shuriken. There is one PDon set you will however not be able to answer with just FC Mbro, which is Choice Band Mold Breaker. Issue with it really is that the answers to it are quite limited, the 2 answers to it are Prankster Slowbro-Mega and Prankster Ho-Oh. Prankster Ho-Oh is fine (and probablys the best Prankster user for teams without a Prankster steel anyways), but Prankster Mbro shouldn't really be ran most of the time because it means you aren't running FC Mbro which means your Pdon and MMX answers are in 2 separate slots making running it less optimal. Choice Band Mold Breaker Pdon isn't very common at all seeing as it isn't great into offense in a very offense orientated meta and it is also very prediction reliant and can take time to break times so you can get away with not preparing for it. It's not an auto loss facing it anyways as after rocks chip it dies to Water Shuriken, they need to get multiple predictions right and Imposter is able to switch into it.
Just to point out I wrote all of that before I added the part to the MMX section about STag. With this set (https://pokepast.es/c73d241e37fc1435) you want to click LTBTS on PDon if they haven't set up, and Water Shuriken if they have Shell Smashed, because Water Shuriken doesn't OHKO unless they Shell Smash. Also one of the better answers to Mold Breaker Choice Band PDon.
Harvest Slaking
Harvest Slaking isn't very common right now because as I have mentioned the meta is very offense orientated, but it is still worth preparing for and isn't terribly hard to prepare for either. All stall teams want a move that forces it out with the main ones being Taunt, Core Enforcer and Whirlwind/Roar. If you are running a Prankster Steel, just give it Taunt and that'll do. If you aren't running one, try slot Core Enforcer or Whirlwind/Roar on one of your sunsteel resists. A move that can force it out isn't enough however because it can just keep coming in and out to PP stall you, so you will want either TSpikes or if you're running STag then giving it Trick should do. TSpikes is generally enough unless they have Alolan-Muk in which case it could be a problem, but I wouldn't give it too much thought because Harvest Slaking is rarely seen now anyways.
MGeist Coverage Fishes
By MGeist coverage fishes, I mean sets that have Shell Smash and MGeist, with the other 2 moves being coverage for MGeist walls. There are a few ways I would reccomend going about this. First of all, just run 2 MGeist walls (either like Mbounce Yveltal or a Wonder Guard). It is not very likely they have both coverage moves that can actually hit both MGeist walls, especially considering if they do run 2 coverage moves like that they will get walled by any team with Zygarde-Complete. Meloetta at full tanks Bug Buzz from even Gengar-Mega and kills it back with Spectral Thief, and the only way Meloetta actually will take chip is if they can force hazards up through MBounce, in which chase chances are you're cooked anyways. You can also run a core like Arceus + Meloetta which should answer pretty much answer all MGeist coverage fish sets because running fighting and bug together is counter intuitive because you have 2 moves that hit dark. Secondly, if you aren't running a Prankster steel then you can just run something like Prankster Ho-Oh who answers all of these sets assuming they can't get rocks up. And finally, Sturdy Muk is a really solid MGeist answer because people will usuall rely on Fissure as their method of hitting Alolan-Muk rather then Earth Power which generally isn't worth using. One concern with Alolan-Muk however is that because you resist MGeist, Dawn Wings does like 80% with its CFZ to you at +2. It also means after like quite a bit of hazard chip Gengar-Mega can possibly break you but again if they can get hazards up through MBounce chances are you're cooked anyways.
Sunsteel/Geist/Fairy
Sunsteel/Geist/Fairy is essentially just a really broken 3 move set, which is usually ran by Protean MMY. I only really see Aerobee run it, but I still think it's worth prepping for and it's a very good set. Because Protean MMY is immune to SThief, walls to it are very limited. There are about 3 ways you can wall it. First is WG Bisharp, who doesn't do much else other then answer Protean MMY and is weak to Fissure so it's unviable on stall. Second is Prankster steels, I'm not sure on the calcs with Mlix but Prankster Celesteela walls it and if you are going to run a Prankster Steel that's the most viable choice anyways. Finally, Prankster Ho-Oh is able to wall it. While yes the answers are limited, at the very least cores with and without a Prank Steel can answer it.
No Guard MMY
It's a rare set you could probablys get away with not prepping for but I'll go over it anyways. There are 2 (or 3 I guess) variants of this set. First of all are the variants that run Sing, using the moves Sing/Photon/Zap Cannon/Fissure. The most obvious answer to this is Meloetta and Wonder Guard steels might be fine but I haven't done the calcs. Second of all is the beat up variants which opt for Beat Up over Sing. Beat Up allows them to kill Innards and Meloetta in 1 slot, at the cost of missing WG steels, so obviously you answer it with a Wonder Guard steel. Finally there's variants that opt for Shell Smash over Beat Up or Sing, I've never see one but I suppose Meloetta or a WG steel with SThief would work. If you don't cover all of these I wouldn't worry because they are barely used.
General Special Photon
To be honest, I don't exactly know what special photon looks like. There's the Spore sets with MGeist and Photon, which you would just answer with a Safety Goggles Prankster Pokémon, a Wonder Guard that resists both moves (ideally with goggles) or MBounce Yveltal. I already went over No Guard, and I suppose they could also spam coverage picking between Steels, Muk, Yveltal, Zygarde, and Meloetta/Gyarados but I've never seen such a set and you would probably cover for it the similar to how you do with MGeist coverage fishing anyways. I have never really had issues with special Photon though and it isn't that good so it's fine.
No Guard TSpikes Taunt MGar
This is a more recent set but it's really good at forcing up TSpikes enabling teammates like Taunt WG Arceus, and in general if they are up you're not in a very good spot. The set on Akira's sample Clockup Flowers runs Taunt/TSpikes/MGeist/Fissure, and more recently Aerobee has been swapping out MGeist for Zap Cannon. Both sets are kind of answered by an MCoat MGeist resisting Wonder Guard, I say kind of because if the Wonder Guard isn't in on it you have to play a 50/50 on whether you go to an MBounce user or your Wonder Guard and then another 50/50 on whether you defog predicting them to switch out or click MCoat predicting them to Taunt, and the 50/50s aren't really in tour favour. MBounce Yveltal is the only Pokémon who can actually do something other then answer this set who answers the version on the sample, although if you want to answer borh the Zap Cannon variant and the MGeist one you have to run MBounce Zapdos. If you actually have the option to just slap whatever in your MBounce slot, I will say Zapdos is worth it over say Zygarde-Complete because Aerobee's teams are the best teams in the game.
WG Sweepers
There is exactly one good WG sweeper in the game, Taunt Arceus. Answering WG Taunt Arceus isn't too difficult, you need either Audino-Mega or Meloetta with Magic Coat, or you just run Audino-Mega and Meloetta and spam switch between them. TSpikes also denys it from coming in, and if you give a mon that can tank a hit from it Toxic you honestly should be fine. The others are Gyarados-Mega, Ash-Greninja and Hoopa-Unbound. If your team is good you already have an answer for Gyarados-Mega, for Ash-Greninja I honestly couldn't tell you but it is irrelevant anyways, and for Hoopa-Unbound that's even more irrelevant then Ash-Greninja and has the same walls except it drops to U-Turn so it's easier to answer. If you're running STag then First Impression kinda deals with these too.
Examples
Now that I have told you how you can optimally fit answers for everything, I will show you some examples of teams which do so. These teams cover about most of the game and their main issues are not being able to make good progress into defensive MBouncera and also anything that is able to force hazards up, which are more so issues with hard stall in general. Click on sprites for team.
The amount this team covers is pretty insane. Prank Celesteela + FC Mbro is incredibly solid into the vast majority of MMX sets, with the only problamatic ones I can think of maybe being Shell Smash with a fire moves and Choice Band with Fire and Bug. Prank Celesteela is solid into most Kartana people use, because of Heatran people are pretty much always gonna opt for Fissure over Sheer Cold and I don't ever see Bolt Strike, Huge Power Kartana with a fire move could be a concern but that isn't really ran atm. PDon MU is incredibly sold, the only potentially problematic set being CB Mold Breaker which isn't ran and can be played around. Harvest Slaking MU is fine unless they have a TSpikes absorber but Harvest Slaking has fell off anyways due to how good offense is. MGeist MU is incredibly solid, Steela walls Sunsteel/Geist/Fairy and coverage fish sets can't cover for all of MAud, Meloetta and Prank Steela. Special Photon is fine? I'm not sure if people run Photon/Bug Buzz/Searing Shot but if they do I suppose that could be a concern. This team had the room to fit Zapdos so I ran it, which is just a blatant Aerobee CTeam but definitely worth it imo. WG sweepers are fine, WG Taunt Arc is answered by spam switching between both Wonder Guards, Gyara gets walled by Steela, and I'm not sure what Ash-Greninja or Hoopa-Unbound run and I don't care what Ash Greninja or Hoopa-Unbound run. Pretty solid team but issues are spam in general, things that can force hazards up through MBounce Zapdos (like Taunt/Spikes Mold Breaker Gyara or something) and opposing MBounce you can't make progress against but the stall vs stall MU is more or less a tie. Honestly wish I submitted this team instead of the Magneton one.
This is the team the most people will recognise because I submitted it as a sample. Prankster Ho-Oh essentially beats all special attackers that aren't Sheer Cold. Sheer Cold isn't ran over Fissure on special attackers really at all atm, and Meloetta should be fine for them. It walls Zap Cannon MMY regardless but the Wonder Guard Core deals with it if you are scared of para hacks. MMX MU is similar to the prior team except LO triple moldy MMX is slightly problematic as it can 2HKO Scizor with Photon on switch in, however it's definitely playable as the thing chips itself down over time plus isn't a common set due to the lack of priority. PDon is essentially solved. Kartana MU is arguably worse then the last team because the Kartana answers are spread out over 2 Pokémon meaning multiple Kartana could pose more of a threat. MCoat Meloetta allows it to answer Taunt WG Arceus, and provides more room to play around NG Taunt TSpikes MGar all though the MU isn't in your favour. Magneton not having an Eviolite means that STag Pdon is a concern especially considering how much this team hates rocks being up, and outside of that it has the same issues as the other team so I don't like this one as much.
This team opts for STag MMY instead of FC MBro meaning that Shed Shell MMX or PDon could be a concern, but the team has a better MU into CB MMX and Harvest Slaking mainly. Prankster Doublade is to not stack a fighting weakness with Ferrothorn who I ran over Scizor because I didn't need it to wall MGeist MMX. Meloetta and MBounce Yveltal is pretty good into MGeist and special Photon all though this team doesn't have an answer for Sunsteel/Geist/Fairy, Searing Shot Hoopa-Unbound or Ash-Greninja could also pose a threat. This team was made before WG Taunt Arceus really took off but MCoat Meloetta could probably be slotted in if needed. NG Taunt MGar MU is fine until it's Zap Cannon, to be fair MGar Zap Cannon does like 40% but chances are you get para haxed. Kartana MU is pretty similar to the prior team. Rest of the issues are the same as the other teams really (general stall issues), all though Knock Off Yveltal means Shed Shell Imposter isn't a concern.
Conclusion
Hopefully by now you agree that stall is an actually good archetype, because common opinion is that it isn't that good. I have also hopefully proved defensive counterplay is real on stall, but for balance I couldn't say the same thing. Balance isn't able to stack checks to things like stall can (e.g. Kartana checks) and also struggles to fit things like Fur Coats so balance defensive cores end up being a lot worse, and balance also isn't really going to be out offensing good offense. As well from playing against balance with stall they're also pretty easy to wall and they can't make progress into MBounce. The prevelance of spam hurts, but semistalls with Mold Breaker Pokémon that set hazards and remove items plus a perish trap Pokémon or Harvest Slaking semistalls are not that common which is good for stall. Overall, I actually think stall is more consistent then balance now, and thus a better archetype. I'll probably get flamed for this opinion, all though atleast Aerobee agrees with me. Thank you for reading, goodbye.
cool team i like kyurem black so yippee it's on a teamok THIS is an actual sample submission
View attachment 742590
again i definitely can ladder higher but im not motivated enough and also spam is awful to play against
The Eternal Memory
synopsis: it's setup spam hyper offense. you know it, you love it. one of the main things of this HO is that the improofing scheme is surprisingly sound compared to other HOs, and things like double imposter wont fuck you up most of the time if you play well.now 3+ imposter on the other hand
every shell smasher here can potentially sweep after rocks, although some do it better than others. lead mmy and get rocks up while disrupting with sleep, or lead kyub/slaking predicting a faster hazard lead or prankster spore and instantly get on the high ground while preserving a dangerous no guarder for later. slaking and mgar provides potential outs for opposing offense, slaking and mmx provides instant burst damage, kyub prevents rocks from going up which is absolutely vital considering all the sashes, and innards is innards.
note that kyub and mmx can potentially selfproof w/ sash up
weaknesses: if rocks ever go up and you cant remove them at least 3 of your mons are fucked. fortunately both the offensive pressure and the magic bouncer are good enough so they mostly cant get rocks up safely. gengar improof is quite sus, so try to remove imposter before setting up with it if possible. kyub unfortunately does pretty shit damage even after a smash so it's mostly just a lure (and a rocks/spore preventer)
other options:
sunraze > sunsteel on kyub
light that burns the sky > photon on mmx
some bounce kyuw set > kyub
either 196- def or 52- def on slaking (lets +2 mgar ssword ohko non evio imposter at -1, 196- after rocks and 52- without rocks)
also 116- def to let mmx kill -1 with photon geyser (or just lonely nature for mmx to kill -1 after rocks)
deo-s > mmy
anyways so this isn't a one liner here's why i think balance is the (second) worst archetype in usum ph
(btw when i say "offense" i mean both offense and ho just in case anyone's confused)
tl;dr: you have to sacrifice too much and your team ends up worse as a result
1. your defensive core can't cover everything.
a well known fact about usum ph is that you can't defensively cover everything, there's so many nigh-unwallable sets that bulkier teams are usually much worse off than offensive ones. what this means for balance is that your defensive core is usually very shaky, and struggles to actually hold out vs strong offensive threats, and once your defensive core is broken down enough, you'll just get ran over by offense.
ik this may make stall seem like the worst archetype, but stall's better imo because you have more teamslots to run niche stuff to beat the nearly unwallable mons without sacrificing as much (or just run stag to trap said unwallable mons and ko them), which balance can't do as easily due to how much it already needs to fit.
2. your offensive options are too limited.
you have to cram priority and breaking power into 2 mons, and having only 2 mons to cover all of your offense means you're very easily out-offensed by opposing offense, and if you put too much priority for the offense mu (which likely won't even help much as offense will also have priority for opposing offense) you don't have enough power to break fatter teams. you can't have one dedicated breaker and one dedicated anti-offense mon, as you'll likely just lose your breaker to innards and it'll be nearly impossible to win afterwards. you have to cram so much into just 2 mons, and you can't fit everything you need to.
all of this makes balance the second worst archetype imo, you have to sacrifice too many mus and there isn't much reward compared to just running a different archetype other than ig making it harder to cteam you (and ladder consistency but that's ladder who cares).
btw if anyone asks semistall's the worst archetype imo i'll go into it in a different post maybe
I was planning on making a full RMT for this, but semistall kind of died, so I’m just going to post this now. This is the 9th iteration (out of 12 or so iterations) of my beloved Mold Breaker Rayquaza-Mega team.
https://pokepast.es/11c24a6340a6652d
The star of the show. This thing absolutely shreds stall and balance teams lacking Spectral Thief or a dedicated answer. Despite twelve or so versions of this team being made, this set has never changed.
An unorthodox set I made. The idea was to trick Lagging Tail onto a sweeper, with the idea of shutting it down + removing their item in one move. It was especially handy when I used Gyarados-Mega over Slowbro-Mega, since Pixie Plate sweepers were everywhere at the time
Pretty standard Audino-Mega set. Not much to say here
A bit of a weird set, but also not much to say about it
Due to having Diancie-Mega to handle Dark-type sweepers, I chose to swap out Haze for Encore on my Prankster Zygarde-Complete. It works a lot better than you would expect- I would definitely try it out again.
Probably the most important addition to the team, after Rayquaza-Mega. This is my answer to Dark-types, No Guard, sweepers I cannot wall, MMX, failing the self-improof on Rayquaza-Mega, and more. Diancie-Mega came in handy in almost every single battle, and in my opinion it is under-appreciated in the current meta.
Will I make Rayquaza-Mega into a new semistall team? Most likely, but it will likely be so different from this team that I wouldn’t be able to count it as a new version. The meta is just different now, and although my team didn’t get to shine the way I had hoped, I still had a lot of fun with it.
https://pokepast.es/11c24a6340a6652d
The star of the show. This thing absolutely shreds stall and balance teams lacking Spectral Thief or a dedicated answer. Despite twelve or so versions of this team being made, this set has never changed.
An unorthodox set I made. The idea was to trick Lagging Tail onto a sweeper, with the idea of shutting it down + removing their item in one move. It was especially handy when I used Gyarados-Mega over Slowbro-Mega, since Pixie Plate sweepers were everywhere at the time
Pretty standard Audino-Mega set. Not much to say here
A bit of a weird set, but also not much to say about it
Due to having Diancie-Mega to handle Dark-type sweepers, I chose to swap out Haze for Encore on my Prankster Zygarde-Complete. It works a lot better than you would expect- I would definitely try it out again.
Probably the most important addition to the team, after Rayquaza-Mega. This is my answer to Dark-types, No Guard, sweepers I cannot wall, MMX, failing the self-improof on Rayquaza-Mega, and more. Diancie-Mega came in handy in almost every single battle, and in my opinion it is under-appreciated in the current meta.
Will I make Rayquaza-Mega into a new semistall team? Most likely, but it will likely be so different from this team that I wouldn’t be able to count it as a new version. The meta is just different now, and although my team didn’t get to shine the way I had hoped, I still had a lot of fun with it.
Heya! It's me, theI was planning on making a full RMT for this, but semistall kind of died, so I’m just going to post this now. This is the 9th iteration (out of 12 or so iterations) of my beloved Mold Breaker Rayquaza-Mega team.
https://pokepast.es/11c24a6340a6652d
The star of the show. This thing absolutely shreds stall and balance teams lacking Spectral Thief or a dedicated answer. Despite twelve or so versions of this team being made, this set has never changed.
An unorthodox set I made. The idea was to trick Lagging Tail onto a sweeper, with the idea of shutting it down + removing their item in one move. It was especially handy when I used Gyarados-Mega over Slowbro-Mega, since Pixie Plate sweepers were everywhere at the time
Pretty standard Audino-Mega set. Not much to say here
A bit of a weird set, but also not much to say about it
Due to having Diancie-Mega to handle Dark-type sweepers, I chose to swap out Haze for Encore on my Prankster Zygarde-Complete. It works a lot better than you would expect- I would definitely try it out again.
Probably the most important addition to the team, after Rayquaza-Mega. This is my answer to Dark-types, No Guard, sweepers I cannot wall, MMX, failing the self-improof on Rayquaza-Mega, and more. Diancie-Mega came in handy in almost every single battle, and in my opinion it is under-appreciated in the current meta.
Will I make Rayquaza-Mega into a new semistall team? Most likely, but it will likely be so different from this team that I wouldn’t be able to count it as a new version. The meta is just different now, and although my team didn’t get to shine the way I had hoped, I still had a lot of fun with it.
Mega Ray:
Fun fact, if the Imposter clicks Quiver Dance, they can straight up 1v1 your Mega Ray, despite the fact you have Icicle Plate and they don't.
252+ SpA Icicle Plate Rayquaza-Mega Judgment vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 388-460 (55.1 - 65.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
So let's say that Chansey is at 35% on turn 2
+1 252+ SpA Chansey Oblivion Wing vs. 252 HP 30 IVs / 252 SpD Rayquaza-Mega: 217-256 (52.5 - 61.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
This heals the Chansey back to 58% with the lowest roll
252+ SpA Icicle Plate Rayquaza-Mega Judgment vs. +1 252 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 260-308 (36.9 - 43.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
With Max roll, you then leave the Chansey at 15%
The Chansey then outspeeds because of the +1 Speed and finishes the MRay off.
So, if the Chansey pressing Quiver Dance turn 1 makes you auto lose the Improofing, then why not press Taunt?
If you do, and the Chansey just pressed OWing, then you still don't Improof. 252+ SpA Chansey Oblivion Wing vs. 252 HP 30 IVs / 252 SpD Rayquaza-Mega: 145-172 (35.1 - 41.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO With 15% min recovered.
...So...not a improof, like at all, so why is Icicle Plate here? (Yes I know that Mega Diancie can kinda Improof this but it can't switch in forever and because the Diancie lacks any true power into WG it is very easy for the Imposter to just switch out and come back in later.)
Also on that note, that MRay gets walled by like every Steel type under the sun, and gets wrecked by FakeSpeed, and also is STag Food.
Anyway, I will stop dunking on MRay to attack the rest of the team, starting with:
Celesteela: I don't know what the point of the Trick stuff is. Let's take a look on how different teamstyles would deal with this Celesteela, shall we?
HO: Has enough win-cons that one being Tricked a Lagging Tail won't stop them, and Celesteela is not bulky enough to stay around.
Offence: Same as HO, but you might have slightly better luck catching something that really needs a item. Still, they have more then enough offensive threats that one being forced to go last doesn't make them that much worse.
Balance: They are probably going to go into a WG mon, and Tricking a Tail onto a MAud is more or less useless.
Semistall: Probably the best use of this....IF you can catch the one offensive Win-con. If you catch one of the WG mons, then....yeah no.
Stall: They are going last anyway.
So....unless you are fighting Semistall (Which is already not a good teamstyle), Trick Tail is kinda useless.
Also....252+ Atk Huge Power Mewtwo-Mega-X Photon Geyser vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Celesteela: 185-218 (46.4 - 54.7%) -- 62.9% chance to 2HKO
Not very bulky. Like at all. There is a reason why Zygarde is generally the defensive Magic Bounce Mon, because it can take a beating. Celesteela....kinda can't.
Mega Audino: Standard Mega Audino. I would slot in Double Barreled Shotgun over Aromatherapy, but that is a personal choice.
Mega Slowbro: I just realized that this team has zero hazard removal. Like none. At all. Slowbro needs Defog. Like badly. Or at the very least, something needs Defog. The Slowbro is probably OK, but man does Defog look good right now.
Zygarde Complete: I'm sorry, but you need Haze. I understand the thought process, that Diancie can kill the Dark type set up mons. But....what if, the Mon that is setting up....isn't a dark type? Then....uh....your only option is DBonding them? Trust me, Haze is good. Haze is extremely good. Without Haze, this team has a genuine chance of losing to Evoboost Mold Breaker Gyarados. And no good team should be losing to Evoboost Mold Breaker Gyarados. Otherwise, standard Zygarde (Other then the fact that even with minimum Attack U-Turn still OHKOs Chansey 0 Atk 0 IVs Zygarde-Complete U-turn vs. 252 HP / 0- Def 0 IVs Chansey: 789-929 (112 - 131.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO) Anyway, next up is....sadly....
Mega Diancie: I would like to pretense this with a bit of context. Back in Gen 6 Pure Hackmons, I LOVED Pixalate FakeSpeed Diancie. It was probably my favorite Mon on my old Gen 6 team, and I tried my damn best to make Pixalate Diancie good in Gen 7. But, despite my best efforts, it had one issue that it just could not deal with: It was just too weak. If it isn't hitting super-effectively, then it just doesn't do enough. The reason why I eventually switched to FakeSpeed Regigigas was because I just needed power, and Dianice just could not give me enough. As well, the ability to hit WG Dark types is far less useful then it might have been in the beginning of Gen 7 PH, because Dark type offensive WG mons have become more and more rare. WG Ash Gren has fallen off, WG HoopaU is....existent....maybe? WG MMX is a niche tech Mon that lacks power, WG MGyara are almost always defensive now, and the defensive sets have zero reason to ever stay in. And, of course, WG shuts it down brutally. "But I have Sunsteel! So I can break WG now!" ....If only.
252+ Atk Diancie-Mega Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Audino-Mega: 172-204 (41.9 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Diancie-Mega Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Meloetta: 119-140 (29.4 - 34.6%) -- 7.9% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Diancie-Mega Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Muk-Alola: 133-157 (32.1 - 37.9%) -- 95% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Diancie-Mega Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Slowbro-Mega: 36-43 (9.1 - 10.9%) -- possibly the worst move ever
So....I wish that Pixalate Diancie was good in Gen 7, I really do. But, I can't lie to myself. It just isn't strong enough anymore. If you really need a FakeSpeed Mon with actual power....well....do I have the Mon for you.
So. Yeah. That's the critique. It may sound like a personal attack, but I can assure you, it isn't. I'm sure you are a cool person, but this team....not so sure. Anyway, that is all.
(Oh yeah also both offensive mons lose to almost every Steel Type)
why are you criticising diancie for being hard walled by wonder guards despite the fact that regigigas also gets walled by any team with a sunsteel resist? both get walled by any remotely bulky team so i don't see how it's a point against diancie.
edit: also noticed how you said the team has no hazard removal despite the fact there's a whole defog maud there
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I always click Quiver Dance turn 1 vs. Imposter, and I usually would have just clicked Quiver Dance when they switch in. Imposter has only been a problem in a single game, and I ended up winning that game with a Rayquaza-Mega sweep anyways. Also, what is a Steel-type going to do? Wall me? Good luck doing that without recovery, since I have Taunt.
The idea isn’t that you stop an entire team- the idea is that you tank one hit, Trick the sweeper a Lagging Tail, and then steal all of the boosts. Even if I Trick the Lagging Tail onto a Wonder Guard that doesn’t care about having it, I still get the opportunity to mess with the opponent’s items.
Audino-Mega has Defog. I don’t think anything else needs to be said here.
If a setup sweeper comes in, you are right, I do not have Haze, which logically means I cannot Haze away the boosts. I instead Encore them into spamming the setup move, forcing them to either switch out or let me steal the boosts with Celesteela.
Choosing Encore over Haze was a decision made for this specific team in the later iterations, after weighing the pros and cons of using it over Haze. Also, I have Pixilate Diancie-Mega. I should not be losing to that Gyarados set you mentioned.
Keep in mind this team was mainly used when Dark-type Wonder Guard sweepers were still prominent. Also, Diancie-Mega was never really meant to get that many KOs- it is insurance against certain threats, not the wincon. You could honestly drop Sunsteel Strike here if you wanted to.
Also, a lot of your arguments seem to mainly apply to the current meta. This is a rather old team, and I said in the introduction that this style of team is not doing that well anymore.
If you Quiver Dance VS Imposter, it still comes down to a speed tie if they also Quiver Dance. So Judgement Ice feels like a waste of a moveslot and item, because you are not realistically Improofing consistently with the Rayquaza anyway. Also, with the uptick of Core Enforcer to counter Harvest Slaking, that Ray gets fucked if it is Core Enforced because it very much needs it's ability to do literally anything to WG, which is its entire job. Also, I would once again like to say how the Ray is the ultimate STag Food, and if the Ray dies, then any semblance of offensive pressure falls off a cliff.
I always click Quiver Dance turn 1 vs. Imposter, and I usually would have just clicked Quiver Dance when they switch in. Imposter has only been a problem in a single game, and I ended up winning that game with a Rayquaza-Mega sweep anyways. Also, what is a Steel-type going to do? Wall me? Good luck doing that without recovery, since I have Taunt.
The idea isn’t that you stop an entire team- the idea is that you tank one hit, Trick the sweeper a Lagging Tail, and then steal all of the boosts. Even if I Trick the Lagging Tail onto a Wonder Guard that doesn’t care about having it, I still get the opportunity to mess with the opponent’s items.
Audino-Mega has Defog. I don’t think anything else needs to be said here.
If a setup sweeper comes in, you are right, I do not have Haze, which logically means I cannot Haze away the boosts. I instead Encore them into spamming the setup move, forcing them to either switch out or let me steal the boosts with Celesteela.
Choosing Encore over Haze was a decision made for this specific team in the later iterations, after weighing the pros and cons of using it over Haze. Also, I have Pixilate Diancie-Mega. I should not be losing to that Gyarados set you mentioned.
Keep in mind this team was mainly used when Dark-type Wonder Guard sweepers were still prominent. Also, Diancie-Mega was never really meant to get that many KOs- it is insurance against certain threats, not the wincon. You could honestly drop Sunsteel Strike here if you wanted to.
Also, a lot of your arguments seem to mainly apply to the current meta. This is a rather old team, and I said in the introduction that this style of team is not doing that well anymore.
Oh yeah, I also forgot to mention that the teamstyle you are using also does not fare well for MRay. For a team like this, you really need to keep the breakers alive, because if they randomly die, then offensive pressure is almost completely snuffed. Now, what is a move that could be used on MRay even after it has set up and probably OHKOs it? Ice Shard. Guess what move is already quite common and a variety of random mons to hit Zygarde? Ice Shard. And what happens if the MRay randomly dies to Ice Shard? Then the team better have broken the entire WG backbone, because Diancie is not doing jack to WG mons.
If you want to mess with the opponent's items, there are better ways of doing that then Trick Lagging Tail Celesteela. Like sure, it might work sometimes, but that does not make it a better option then other ways of messing with items.
For the Audino, I am apparently fucking blind. Please ignore everything I said about Defog. I have zero idea how the hell I missed that.
The Slowbro is more or less in the same boat as the Audino.
252+ Atk Pixie Plate Pixilate Diancie-Mega Fake Out vs. +2 252 HP / 252 Def Gyarados-Mega: 92-110 (23.3 - 27.9%) -- 82.2% chance to 4HKO
252+ Atk Pixie Plate Pixilate Diancie-Mega Extreme Speed vs. +2 252 HP / 252 Def Gyarados-Mega: 182-216 (46.1 - 54.8%) -- 55.9% chance to 2HKO
Something always dies. And, if you get unlucky with the rolls, two mons have to die for Diancie Espeed to kill.
For Yourself about the Gigas vs Diancie thing: Diancie has to run Pixalate. Regigigas runs Huge Power, which means that unboosted Sunsteel can still rock non-resist WGs. On the other hand, Diancie can't even 2HKO MAud with Sunsteel.
252+ Atk Huge Power Regigigas Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Audino-Mega: 342-404 (83.4 - 98.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Regigigas Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Meloetta: 237-279 (58.6 - 69%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Regigigas Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Muk-Alola: 242-285 (58.4 - 68.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
When the FakeSpeed Mon with Sunsteel can't even break MAud.
Tldr: I fucked up with the Defog stuff, Diancie is still not strong enough, and the Improof on the MRay is....yeah.
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Thank you for your appreciation I appreciate that, and feel free to get rid of that stag mmx I had enough of doing nothing when they dont bring the things I want them to. Pdon is right, mmx is wrong.
In total there be 9 teams submitted some bad, some good, all of it was torture. I got first on da ladder so now all teams can legally say they got first (ignore the fact that they were used alongside the other 8). Teams will be rated based on the Meloetta scale™ and then the good teams will be given to the rest of the council for their consideration. Any teams submitted after this post won’t be tested for a very VERY long time so don’t try and make me do this again.
https://pokepast.es/61618173978538e6 Team kinda mid. Stag don works fine here, it traps threats ok enough. The kart imp proof is kinda fake, sash imp proofs are trash and pdon only switches in if it’s healthy and after a sack. Gigas, dawn wings and magic guard kart all don’t break well for their own reason. Gigas doesn’t have a mold move, kart lacks a lot of immediate power and the bad imp proof makes it hard to break with it and dawn wings is walled by quite a lot of mons without rocks and ur only rocker is running defog so imp can deny this pretty easily. Aggron works fine I guess.
https://pokepast.es/6ab6028212b72524 Team good into bal but offence mu suck. Firstly, why is this stag kart. Like your 2 breakers are special attackers so wtf does vcreate and power whip do? The only real reason why I used kart was for first impression against mmy (we will get to that later) and sometimes trap the occasional Melo or oddnose. But ur choice locked into first impression a lot of the time which is basically an invitation for things to setup onto you and your walls won’t be able to help since they both suck as walls (literally every single submitted team except the stall one has a mon that can setup after that and force innards or sweep ur team). Also the team as previously said sucks into most offensive structures since your walls suck (0 mmx photon checks besides innards your sunsteel wall has core enforcer as it’s only attack so good luck killing a kart and there’s not a single sash to be found so once your innards is gone there’s a lot problems that show up. The mu against bal is fine enough I guess and mmy is a pretty nice breaker but otherwise it’s not that good.
I can’t find the pokepaste for the baton pass team but it doesn’t work as a sample it’s counterplay is really easy for anyone who knows what coming (which is kinda easy since the team is going to be pretty public) and is a horrible intro for any new player.
https://pokepast.es/131eb2525cfeddb7 very cool team and my personal fav. I'm not too sure on the no guard set but mostly I like this a lot. However as a sample it doesn’t work very well since it’s bal that has 1 wg so no guard is a bitch. I didn’t have many troubles with piloting it. I find it pretty easy to pilot but it isn’t a really a good intro for da new guys. I would suggest you try da team if ur not new do it’s a lot of fun. I could still see a modified version to be more suitable for samples be added however. (For people who going to complain that their team was considered worse then this try the team first you coward).
https://pokepast.es/3f171860f83b61f4 team soooooo slowwwwwwwww. My speed control is e speed and ice shard and that’s about it. The only mon here that’s faster than mmx is mmy who won’t fix the shitty mu into offence. Team ok into bal besides the fact that their mmx and mmy are still major threats. Also no guard is a fucking horrible mu. Still ok and does work fine I guess.
https://pokepast.es/6007952853f5ef62 safety goggles Groudon? Kinda weird since you already have a kartana but ok. What do you mean there’s 2. Team has an absurd mu vs some mons like how do you force slowbro and prank zyguard out, yea you can kill them with kart after a shell smash but first you need the shell smash so you can’t actively force them out also kart needs a cfz to kill slowbro and u can’t kill zyguard after wilo/reflect. No attacks on deo s sucks the item selection sucks cus like why tf you need 3 spore immune and I haven’t used dark z once. You also have a pretty slow team but some decent prio to make up for it so it isn’t as bad as other occasions. Being this extremely rocks weak sucks (all ur sash gone and nothing is imp proofed besides innards who don’t kill now)since once deo s dies you can’t remove hazard well and a lot of common rockers can setup rocks on u (slowbro, steelix, aggron, muk on ur mmx and no guards). On the topic of no guard that mu is horrible since your only sleep immunity is safety goggles sing runs over this team and no magic coat on chansey means they can gastro u for free then get a kill. Overall it’s flaws are not all team ruining individually but the amount make it less then optimal.
https://pokepast.es/314756d305b52267 overall this is the most likely to be added. The mmy is kinda nasty and works well vs most offensive structures and some balance that doesn’t carry a very solid photon absorbing wg. There’s a good amount of speed and priority so it doesn’t get run over as easily as some of the other teams given. The Yveltal does its job well as a mostly pursuit bot for scarf gengar and imp proofing mmy and good prio with sucker. The mmx is the most questionable part of the team and kinda useless for a lot of games. A different stag would probably be better overall. Deo s has some flaws as a lead since it doesn’t have taunt but it works well enough. Kart is a nice breaker for bal that isn’t prepared and forces innards on ho after a shell smash. Additionally wg has proven itself useful in actually walling some really scary mons like slacking at least temporarily.
https://pokepast.es/bc7d4e1c668120ce I HATE MAGNETON I HATE MAGNETON I HATE MAGNETON I HATE MAGNETON I HATE MAGNETON I HATE MAGNETON. Team works effectively enough (we will get to the elephant in the room later) it loses to some spore shenanigans since u only have 1 spore immunity (we will get to the magneton later) and no trick switch in sucks but overall works effectively. Hoho kinda sucks in a lot of matchups but I guess it works fine besides the fact that I didn’t click light screen in a single game. Water shuriken is pretty questionable since you’re running scizor, slowbro, hoho, Meloetta™ a structure which is very strong vs pdon so having shuriken just kinda makes u shell smash mmx weak when scald would have been way better. Ok let’s get to the magneton. Firstly what the fuck does this do over heatran. Water weak almost never matters and the only move it does matter for, scald slowbro, isn’t exactly something you would want to switch in magneton since burn hurts it quite a lot, takes some notable chip it doesn’t want to have and overall isn’t worth trading your item slot for since rocks scald slowbro isn’t as bad as losing to stagdon. Speaking of stag most stags can pretty easily trap this since even just trick could probably get your magneton killed cus you don’t have any bulk. Equally a lot of tech just runs over magneton like knock off on a hazard setter or just running hazards with an attack since magneton has very little bulk and in exchange for all this you get something that can live SSS from kart if absolutely nothing else chips it which as a magic bouncer you will be inevitably be taking chip from u turns and stuff so like does it really check kart that much better then like hoho? Speaking of hoho, this team is pretty rocks weak. Hoho is obviously rocks weak, Meloetta™ can’t live +2 bug buzz from most moon users, scizor can’t live 2 photons after rocks and for previously said reasons magneton is a pretty fucking shit magic bouncer so the team being this weak to rocks and having this bad of a magic bouncer fucks with the entire team. Overall besides that thing it’s pretty effective. Third best.
https://pokepast.es/63db99e6371e40aa Team good, most straightforward team I’ve played in a while sack innards against the scary stuff gengar and diance clean house vs ho and kart is good at cleaning bal after you set a couple bombs off and Luna gets a couple kills here and there. Very straightforward shit very nice, some mu sucks a lot and considering the state of ho in Gen 7 it’s not even that bad of an intro for new players. Very nice. Second best.
IM DONE NO MORE SAMPLES TALK ITS OVER I CAN GO BACK TO PLAYING TEAMS WITH 4 CHOICE ITEMS I DID IT!!!!!!!!!!!
I get 11 Meloettas™ out of 10 cus I’m just that cool
btw can you change that deos into a deoa with psycho boost instead of bdond if you can? I really like deoa and I want it to appear in the sample list and psycho boost is less passive against setup sweepers that want to take adventage of that and deoa is better against impostor as you can threat a kill instead of a sleep and would be easier for teammates to improof if somehow they have to do that.
Acutally mguard toxic orb yvetal will also work, providing a blob solution which is very important especially in a sample team serving the purpose of giving new players an overview of the meta game.
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Hello all! Today I will present a team that is a bit modified from someone else’s team (if it is you who made the original or presented me to the original please state yourself) which I have made my peak elo 1609, peak GXE 84%, and peak placing on ladder 22nd with the account EmanItzBoss. So I will go in depth and original owner if I am explaining anything wrong please say something.
https://pokepast.es/8a000c65fe3eb688 Pokepaste link
PrettyPinkPrincess (Mewtwo-Mega-X) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Pure Power
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Spectral Thief
- Sacred Sword
- Photon Geyser
Standard Mewtwo set (besides sacred sword) very good, based, and ily MMx. Sacred sword is just what I got from the sample team with and I’ve been really liking it over cc because I’ve been running into to many extreme evoboost slaking and this is my most reliable counter because cc would need a crit to kill. But I don’t really improof this Mon very well and it’s mostly my innards sac. (Set is completely original to the sample)
Unemployed (Slaking) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sunsteel Strike
- Fake Out
- Sacred Fire
- Extreme Speed
Hp fake speed go brrrrr pretty much my only counter to ng Deo or any fast ng and no shell smash because there are 4 setup mons on this team and steel types get fucked by sacred fire and even better if they get burned. Lum to get rid of sleep burn ect and sunsteel because that’s what the sample came with. (Set is completely the same to sample)
Obama (Rayquaza-Mega) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Dazzling
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Mild Nature
- Clangorous Soulblaze
- Clanging Scales
- Shell Smash
- Sunsteel Strike
I really like this set because no one is running dazzling. And gets a lot more out of its ability then you would think improofs Slak (kinda) if you are at full health and rocks do hit this bastard for a whooping 25% but that’s why I have…(set is the same to the sample team)
PrettyPinkPrinces (Mewtwo-Mega-X) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Photon Geyser
- Close Combat
- Let's Snuggle Forever
- Shell Smash
By far my most common lead stops rocks/sleep and a lot of status moves that are not run by a mold breaker (long live Deo-s’s week long relevancy) but this lead is just kinda bad into Deo-s because to 2-Ko it you need to use let’s snuggle which you would most want to use it on a different Mon weak to fairy. But it is the most expendable to innards besides rayquaza depending on the matchup. (Set is completely original to me replaced by a m-bounce groundon)
Goku who? (Mewtwo-Mega-Y) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Parental Bond
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Moongeist Beam
- Extreme Evoboost
- Freeze-Dry
- Photon Geyser
Holy shit I love this set oh-kos anything after evoboost is isn’t like m-Steelix or m-Aggron arceus is also good into this. Against any sash Mon MMY just clicks the big pink button and kills it. Lures in zygod to prank haze SUPRISE I have freeze dry your dead (It actually 2-kos not a oh-Ko). And after a bliss/special wall dies this thing just comes in and sweeps unless it’s like hp fake speed Slak. (Set is original to the sample team)
You fat fuck (Blissey) (F) @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Innards Out
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Gentle Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Def
- Whirlwind
- Magic Coat
- Shore Up
- Defog
Self explanatory blis set whirlwind to get rid of special sweepers coat to bounce shit back Defog gets rid of hazards and recovery. (90% sure this set I made in place of something)
Thank you for your time and have a good day!
https://pokepast.es/8a000c65fe3eb688 Pokepaste link
PrettyPinkPrincess (Mewtwo-Mega-X) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Pure Power
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Spectral Thief
- Sacred Sword
- Photon Geyser
Standard Mewtwo set (besides sacred sword) very good, based, and ily MMx. Sacred sword is just what I got from the sample team with and I’ve been really liking it over cc because I’ve been running into to many extreme evoboost slaking and this is my most reliable counter because cc would need a crit to kill. But I don’t really improof this Mon very well and it’s mostly my innards sac. (Set is completely original to the sample)
Unemployed (Slaking) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sunsteel Strike
- Fake Out
- Sacred Fire
- Extreme Speed
Hp fake speed go brrrrr pretty much my only counter to ng Deo or any fast ng and no shell smash because there are 4 setup mons on this team and steel types get fucked by sacred fire and even better if they get burned. Lum to get rid of sleep burn ect and sunsteel because that’s what the sample came with. (Set is completely the same to sample)
Obama (Rayquaza-Mega) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Dazzling
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Mild Nature
- Clangorous Soulblaze
- Clanging Scales
- Shell Smash
- Sunsteel Strike
I really like this set because no one is running dazzling. And gets a lot more out of its ability then you would think improofs Slak (kinda) if you are at full health and rocks do hit this bastard for a whooping 25% but that’s why I have…(set is the same to the sample team)
PrettyPinkPrinces (Mewtwo-Mega-X) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Photon Geyser
- Close Combat
- Let's Snuggle Forever
- Shell Smash
By far my most common lead stops rocks/sleep and a lot of status moves that are not run by a mold breaker (long live Deo-s’s week long relevancy) but this lead is just kinda bad into Deo-s because to 2-Ko it you need to use let’s snuggle which you would most want to use it on a different Mon weak to fairy. But it is the most expendable to innards besides rayquaza depending on the matchup. (Set is completely original to me replaced by a m-bounce groundon)
Goku who? (Mewtwo-Mega-Y) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Parental Bond
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Moongeist Beam
- Extreme Evoboost
- Freeze-Dry
- Photon Geyser
Holy shit I love this set oh-kos anything after evoboost is isn’t like m-Steelix or m-Aggron arceus is also good into this. Against any sash Mon MMY just clicks the big pink button and kills it. Lures in zygod to prank haze SUPRISE I have freeze dry your dead (It actually 2-kos not a oh-Ko). And after a bliss/special wall dies this thing just comes in and sweeps unless it’s like hp fake speed Slak. (Set is original to the sample team)
You fat fuck (Blissey) (F) @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Innards Out
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Gentle Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Def
- Whirlwind
- Magic Coat
- Shore Up
- Defog
Self explanatory blis set whirlwind to get rid of special sweepers coat to bounce shit back Defog gets rid of hazards and recovery. (90% sure this set I made in place of something)
Thank you for your time and have a good day!
WIP
Team building Compendium
Welcome to the teambuilding compendium! If you’re looking for a Pokemon to fill a role on your team or some counterplay to a metagame defining threat this is a one stop shop! Every sprite is clickable and links to a Pokepaste containing sets that are not plug and play. Every set has been curated so any Pokemon unable to fulfill its intended role have been removed. The compendium is intended to be a quick place to grab a set to fill a role on your team, if you’re interested in more informatioa specific set, go ask about them in the pure hackmons room or ask me or idk. If there are any mistakes or suggestions about sets that should be added please don’t hesistate to message me. [1]
Support & utility [niche]
HO:(wonder guard) (magic guard)/*insert some toxic orb trick mgyara here*/ (magic guard) /*almost same as gyara*/ (innards out) [
(wonder guard) (Mold Breaker) (wonder guard)]
Offense:(wonder guard) (wonder guard) (wonder guard) :(wonder guard) [
(wonder guard)]
Balance:
/*I hate this part*/
Late Game Sweepers [niche]
HO:(Wonder guard) (Huge Power) (No Guard)/*mostly shell smash one*/ 
(Huge Power) (Harvest) (Huge Power) (Huge Power) [(Magic Guard) (Mold Breaker) (Magic Guard) 
(Mold Breaker) (Wonder Guard) (Dazzling) (Psychic Surge)]
NUKES [niche]
HO:(Huge Power) (Huge Power) (Huge Power)
Offense:(Huge Power) (Huge Power) (Choice Band)
/*What I call Nukes is those who can shoot an hard-to-wall shot when they got a chance. A good example is mold band don v-create. But because of the existance of the ability wonder guard there is hardly really sth that can go for a unwallable shot*/
/*Im uploading it on github here so that anyone can help with this project. I need help with the fuking support and almost all the balance and stall sets.*/
Team building Compendium
Welcome to the teambuilding compendium! If you’re looking for a Pokemon to fill a role on your team or some counterplay to a metagame defining threat this is a one stop shop! Every sprite is clickable and links to a Pokepaste containing sets that are not plug and play. Every set has been curated so any Pokemon unable to fulfill its intended role have been removed. The compendium is intended to be a quick place to grab a set to fill a role on your team, if you’re interested in more informatioa specific set, go ask about them in the pure hackmons room or ask me or idk. If there are any mistakes or suggestions about sets that should be added please don’t hesistate to message me. [1]
Support & utility [niche]HO:
(wonder guard) (magic guard)/*insert some toxic orb trick mgyara here*/ (magic guard) /*almost same as gyara*/ (innards out) [(wonder guard) (Mold Breaker) (wonder guard)]Offense:
(wonder guard) (wonder guard) (wonder guard) :(wonder guard) [(wonder guard)]Balance:
/*I hate this part*/
Late Game Sweepers [niche]HO:
(Wonder guard) (Huge Power) (No Guard)/*mostly shell smash one*/ (Huge Power) (Harvest) (Huge Power) (Huge Power) [(Magic Guard) (Mold Breaker) (Magic Guard) (Mold Breaker) (Wonder Guard) (Dazzling) (Psychic Surge)] NUKES [niche]HO:
(Huge Power) (Huge Power) (Huge Power)Offense:
(Huge Power) (Huge Power) (Choice Band)/*What I call Nukes is those who can shoot an hard-to-wall shot when they got a chance. A good example is mold band don v-create. But because of the existance of the ability wonder guard there is hardly really sth that can go for a unwallable shot*/
/*Im uploading it on github here so that anyone can help with this project. I need help with the fuking support and almost all the balance and stall sets.*/
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Is Double Barreled Shotgun a move or sth
-6 0- Atk Slow Start Shuckle Double Barreled Shotgun vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro-Mega: 2550-3000 (647.2 - 761.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Ig I'll put an actual thing too so it's not a complete shitpost
Gengar-Mega @ Focus Sash
Ability: Parental Bond
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shell Smash
- Moongeist Beam
- Sludge Wave
- Aura Sphere
Ability: Parental Bond
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shell Smash
- Moongeist Beam
- Sludge Wave
- Aura Sphere
Pbond mgar, everyone knows and loves it as a scarf rkiller. But tbh I think it could also work quite well as a lategame sweeper. Admittedly, it does require a lot of slots, with mg being almost necessary to remove hazards and blobs, an improof, and it doesn't mind psyterrain support. However, if it can get going, it easily sweeps through teams. I've been experimenting with it lately and it seems quite decent. I'll prob build more with it at some point. Just some food for thought.
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