ADV OU (and I guess BL kind of too): The point of this post is to get some of my battle-hardened opinions across and to share an exercise in Teambuilding to eventually highlight in this post an Arcanine set I saw as very intriguing, and so perhaps might pave the way for others to get creative, or whatever - rather than what I see happening in other forums with the talks about bans and such, I enjoy that in something like this one that we can explore what we might actually have in the current meta more fully!
I am going to spare the actual sets and EVs on most of this post until the final Arcanine set I want to sell you guys on. Or at least, you will sort of see how it can work suspiciously well as a defensive capstone/gatekeeper + offensive enabling piece to a team.
Original version of team I was laddering with:
Skarmory
(ProTox) / Claydol / Jirachi
(some sort of CM)/ Blissey
(CM grass/fire) /
Tentacruel / Dugtrio
Premise: Used it mostly as a semi-stall team, and the inspiration was that it feels like I saw a Suicune or Milotic version of the team in the Tentacruel slot, and so just decided to make a Tentacruel work because it's a sweet pivot-y-esque Water-mon on a sandless team, and a rather fast mixed sweeper / surprise breaker with some nice qualities I outlined before here:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...agame-discussion.3503019/page-24#post-8817717
Next version:
Skarmory / Claydol / Jirachi /
Ludicolo (sp def)/ Tentacruel / Dugtrio
Premise: I must have been a little too tired of walking on eggshells with no real good Swampert switch-in, and then stumbled upon reading this post below, remembering that Ludicolo exists, and so out Blissey went, in exchange for it. A feel for something different. Leech Seed is amazing. Cool dual-type.
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...res-and-concepts.3687815/page-3#post-10314351
Next version:
Skarmory
(protect --> Drill Peck at this point) / Claydol / Jirachi / Ludicolo / Tentacruel /
Blaziken (endure salac, reversal)
Premise:
Dugtrio CB-lock liability after trapping stuff was getting on my nerves. Did not seem cohesive of a team with Dugtrio on it. Problem about this is if I replaced it, whatever was to go in its place I still wanted to lure or dispatch opposing Dugtrio. I also wanted some better Gengar insurance. So I said "Blaziken, conjure some easy cheese wins!" Also I have an evolved opinion; I really value dual types and never thought I would have actually come up with something that I at first thought would be a semi-viable team with all dual types in ADV OU.
It just ended up that Blaziken in sand, which just happens way too much of the time, ultimately sucked. But if you are high level I just feel like part of your strive to get 'higher level' is being multi-dimensonal and dual-type just lend themselves to being such so you can adapt to a battle, when in contrast pure single types feel a little 'stuck' in this regard.
Final version: "much happier and satisfying to use" without Dugtrio and Blissey, and now with cornerstone Arcanine:
Skarmory / Claydol / Jirachi / Ludicolo / Tentacruel /
Arcanine
Arcanine @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 60 HP / 176 Atk / 52 SpA / 220 Spe
Naughty Nature (+ATK , -Sp. Def)
IVs: 30 Spe
- Extreme Speed
- Iron Tail
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Flamethrower
A lot to say here.
At a glance on this Arcanine, the EVs are to make E-speed do good chunks to most everything like 30-40% to Mence/Zap, for example. Also it powers up Iron Tail. Speed outpaces non +speed Base 85, I think? Some in HP to get a better Lefties number or better Seismic Toss situation in sandless against Blissey,and the rest in Sp. Atk,
The Atk and Sp. Atk actually have a very specific reason in hitting DD Mence, more on this later.
So why add this grounded Fire-type to the team? It's Dugtrio bait , right? Yes but sometimes you can use that as a lure to exceute an E-speed to do a lot on the Dug, and have Spikes switch-in ruin it later. And it will be kind of worth it if the Jirachi or the Tentacruel (Dugtrio weak set-up sweepers) can feel less stressed if Arcanine's threat of E-speed chipping it, and Skarm's spikes chipping it,
Sp. Def drill peck Skarm with a little more speed creep than usual (to put down a layer of Spikes and start phazing , gets the jump in Skarm mirros to be the one to phaze first....to drag in opposing Dug, hopefully weakening it to ~75%) + Sp Def Ludicolo (to handle the strongest water attacking threats, and with Leech Seed to force switch or heal ARcanine if it comes in on the seeded opponent, think Snorlax) + spinning claydol make the good core.
On the topic of the Leech seed forcing switch thing, knowledge of the mechanics of Intimidate switch in can set up a beneficial situation later. Like say Ludicolo seeds a Starmie, then you can Double To Arcanine and the Intimidate will land on the new Pokemon that comes out, and that's good. But , in contrast say you seed a Lax/Blissey, what you are actually looking for most of the time is for the Bliss/Lax to stay in if you are doubling to Arcanine, and not Double To ARcanine if you think your opponent is going to have a propensity to switch becuase those mons are slower than Ludicolo and you may be in a situations you must switch Ludicolo out, than Arcanine's intimidate swithcing in won't work if they double out to something else.
So with a Skarm lead team, an Arcanine double turn 1 works OK when you think you are up against magneton teams. Obvioulsy Arcanine has good team synergy since it can battle a lot of staple mons like Medicham / MEtagross / Heracross / Jirachi / Celebi / Skarmory / Breloom -- good base stats and Fire STAB + intimidate make this possible. Nabbing intimidates on drypass BP Celebi and Astarachi are very clutch things that Arcanine can do to impede the progress of the opponent, for example.
HP Ice + E-speed is the funniest DDMence check. Also the one other target is Flygon. The team has two water types but neither are Bulky and in fact both are perfect opportunities for the Mence to want to set up the DD. So going to Arcanine and playing the sequnce out HP ICe then E-speed after surviving an EQ after the intimidate is hilarious.
Iron Tail - this was the last move decided, because my mind at first went to stuff like Howl or perhaps something more natural to maybe do some sort of damage to a Swampert. But actually just have to play for a Burn against that. So what Iron Tail is great for -- sure it has 75% accuracy but Aerodactyl and Tyrnaitar are some prime things to hit with it. EVs I think let you live CB Aero Rock slide in a pinch after intimidate from 100% too. Also it is the attack to try to go blow for blow against BLissey if that is what must happen, since 30% def drops are real. Iron TAil is also good on the resisted water switchins you would rather attempt a def Drop against instead of a burn (Milo/Cune/; since again, I would rather try and burn the Swampert , probably rather burn a Starmie too in some situations, that's a mixed bag) and it also lets you chip (albeit resitied damage) against some Pressure mons first before wasting too much of E-speed PP.
Gotta go, but thanks for reading. Hope you can see the vision of the team, even though I am not sharing everything about it. Replays were on username 1776f. Bye.
