Recently, ThisGuyMuks started hosting a challenge, offering a cash prize to anybody who could reach 1800/1900 elo on the ADV OU ladder with 4/3 BLs on their team respectively. Naturally, Hclat hit 1900 with 4 BLs almost immediately, but he offered to pass the money forward to anyone who could reach the elo goal without using any of the pokemon from his team, which was Salamence/Forretress/Miltank/Vaporeon/Steelix/Raikou. I thought Muks’s idea was extremely cool, and the cash prize was still up, so I decided to put my ADV knowledge to the test and take a stab at it. I failed a lot, but in the end I reached 1780/#6 on ladder with a team of 4 BL’s and 2 OU’s. Even though I fell just short of the goal, I’m satisfied with the quality of this team. I’m confident this team can reach 1800 with enough time and patience, and I probably can find the time but I no longer have the patience. 1780 is enough for me. So instead I’m sharing it here!
Team:
https://pokepast.es/b9b8e203c1fbf32a
Before I get into the building process for this team, I want to share how I ended up deciding to use it in the first place. It’s no secret that spikes are the best tool in ADV OU and that laddering tends to be easier with them. Stall also is a known consistent laddering strategy. Hclat got 1900 with a spikes + spin semi-stall. So at first I thought I’d do the same.
I sat down to build and immediately noticed the first problem. Forretress is banned for this challenge. The only other ADV mon that gets both spikes and spin is cloyster, and no stall is going to be able to rely on cloyster to do both consistently. If you want to use stall, you need both spikes and spin, and you’ll have to expend two slots doing so.
I quickly decided that running claydol stall wasn’t worth it for this challenge. You simply need more utility than that out of your OU slots. Claydol doesn’t have the long term walling or breaking potential that the BLs need to thrive. My solution to this was SD + dual stabs + spin Armaldo, a forgotten set. It compresses the role of breaker, spinner, and snorlax check, all very important qualities for slower spikes teams.
I tried various versions of ideas like this
https://pokepast.es/5a9aff1030794ab2. I was able to have some success with them. Theoretically this kind of team has it all - special wall, physical wall, spikes, pressure on other spikers, and breaking. However in practice I found it difficult for armaldo to keep spikes off the field, especially against toxic skarmory, even though I had heal bell, wish and a good skarm punish in Jirachi. Even more problematic than the spikes war, though, was the lack of revenge killing and speed control on this team. I had a decent mid game plan, but I didn’t have a real end game. I would often just end up losing slowly.
Those teams did okay and were all able to reach high 1600s, but they all tilted back to the mid 1500s eventually. I learned a very important lesson about spikes teambuilding. You can’t really get away without speed control in ADV. You need the fast win con to check offensive threats and pressure into an eventual win. Even the stalliest of stalls have speed. V5 uses dugtrio. Superman uses Moltres or Aerodactyl. ABR’s skarm mag uses Aero, BKC’s skarm mag uses mence. Hclat used raikou. This brought me to my next problem - there are no good BL speed control options.
The best and most consistent fast spikes threat of the BLs (other than Raikou, which was now banned from the challenge) is probably sub-seed sceptile. I tried a smeargle + sceptile offense and reached mid-high 1600s with it, but deep down I knew this was just inferior to normal smeargle strategies which are inconsistent to begin with. From this I concluded that if a 4BL spikes team is going to reach 1800, it’ll have to use one of the OU slots for speed control.
So where to now? I knew I had to change my approach. By this point I’d gained a real appreciation for how good the OU’s are defensively. You’d think quagsire is a decent swampert replacement, and while it can be, it can’t switch into crunch tyranitar which is a problem before you know it’s set. It can’t hit skarmory and it can’t ohko mence. Nothing else does what blissey does. As cool as roselia is, it’s not staying in and spiking on its counters like skarmory is, and max hp takes like 80 from swampert earthquake. Registeel doesn’t self-heal like jirachi does. So on and so forth. Further, the best BL defensive mons were taken by hclat already. Umbreon is the only real wish passer left, but I don’t think umbreon is good enough for 1800 without OU level support. It’s cm, stat pass and sub pass fodder. Anyway, I wrote out a list of 4-5 possible comps, and they were all more offensive than what I’d done previously. I won’t share all of them in case I decide to go for this challenge again, but they were mostly centered around suicune. Think Mana-style offense - medicham/suicune/snorlax/metagross/salamence/claydol, but with spin armaldo, the regis, dragonite etc subbing in. Another easy comp is special offense - jynx/kingdra/regice stuff can probably do well. The BLs are much, much better offensively than defensively.
From my list, the idea I decided to try first was a build centered around reversal medicham. This is how the 1780 team started. It comes in the context of my failed stall experiments. I was thinking a lot about the importance of speed control and win conditions. Salac reversal medicham is probably the strongest win condition the BLs have to offer. It’s difficult to set up, of course, which is why it’s not OU, but it also has a very simple and clear list of checks it needs gone before sweeping. Fighter-stack offense has been used quite a bit over the years in tournament play, and the BLs have plenty of fighters to choose from.
I had actually already done a similar challenge for the ladder achievements a few years ago. I used a very similar team. I believe it was blaziken/sceptile/vaporeon/dd sunny day ttar/snorlax/reversal heracross. The idea is simple - use mons that lure out damage on flyers, clear the weather, and sweep with heracross.
For this team I started with the core of machamp/sceptile/charizard/medicham. I had several ideas for how to fill the last slots. I knew the remaining OU would be one of dd + sunny day ttar, suicune (with or without rain dance), metagross or snorlax. Then the last BL could be rain dance regice, rain dance ludicolo, or registeel. I tried ludicolo + ttar first. I reached high 1600s, but ultimately struggled and fell back down. I used rain dance/surf/ice beam/leech seed ludi. It had some cool upsides like leech seed sacking into a sub mon, an extra swampert check and the double weather clear, but I kept losing to physical spam because I had no real rock resists and only one flying resist. Slapped on registeel in its place, and all of a sudden, at last, I was *winning*, consistently. Not every game of course, but when I’d lose elo, instead of tilting all the way back to 1500 I would be able to recover. It took just a couple days to reach 1780 from there.
Now for the team itself. The most obvious question is, why use tyranitar on a weather clear team? That is a fantastic and very valid question. The answer is that bulky dd ttar synergizes extremely well with fighter spam strategies. For one, sand helps damage on flying types/levitators stick. Another reason is defensive use. After you hit a fighter check with a fighter, you’re going to have to switch in to it. Ttar operates as a soft switchin to all the flying types and beats them all in a pure 1v1, yes including mixmence. Bulky physical ttar checks dd mence (brick break is rare especially on ladder), dd gyara, and cm jirachi - three obvious problems for teams stacking fighting types. Another reason is end game sequencing. Dd tar is an incredible sequencing tool. It is checked by slow water or ground types and not much else. It forces them on the field, clears weather, chips them a bit so reversal can kill, and sacrifices itself so that the reversal fighting type can set up and win. Another reason is offensive overload. Ttar lands damage on pokemon that aren’t fighting counters per se but that are bulky enough to take a reversal. This includes mons like skarmory, metagross, swampert, milotic and suicune. Another reason is dd tar offers an alternative win path for some games, namely matchups without flygon or pert. Finally, tar also synergizes well with other team members as I’ll explain later.
Next up is Machamp. Obviously a fighter spam strategy needs at least two fighters, so machamp’s role here is pretty obvious. It softens medicham’s checks. It runs deeper than this, though. I’m running registeel, a mon that can’t damage gar and lets spikes up. Sceptile lets blissey heal for free in most cases. Tar usually isn’t breaking past swampert and skarmory, and TSS teams aren’t exactly forgiving to reversal sweepers, especially when I’m not running a dugtrio to remove tar. I need something to really put pressure on big 5 tss teams to make up for all this, and machamp is just the guy for the job. I chose hp ghost over bug for this reason - to squeeze as much mileage out of machamp as I can get in the TSS matchup. Celebi can be dealt with in other ways. Another synergy is with tar. Since I’m dropping coverage on tar for sunny day, I don’t have a move to hit claydol. Machamp, though, typically scores damage on claydol early on because it’s typically the best and most expendable machamp answer on its team since machamp isn’t usually paired with spikes.
Next is the star of the show, sceptile. This set is really, really good for fighter spam strategies. It’s a very important momentum tool on this team. Because it’s so fast, it can safely set up subs and trade with basically anything that doesn’t have a recovery move. Further, it switches in to the waters that check charizard and tyranitar, takes damage, forces the waters out and is able to flip that damage onto the opposing team with endeavor. It’s basically like an endeavor swampert but for water and electric moves instead of physical ones. Sceptile typically nets damage on skarmory, zapdos, gengar, fire birds, dd mons, steels, or celebi. Offensive teams like this which so obviously lack defensive stability need momentum reversing tools like this. Sceptile goes a long way here and I really recommend others try it. Of course, most of the time sceptile gives blissey free entry and it has more softboiled than I have endeavor, but forcing blissey to heal gives machamp free entry. If recover celebi or wish tect jirachi were to do the same thing, I have a charizard to punish them, and obviously milotic can’t handle petaya + overgrow sceptile. Sceptile can beat or chip offensive versions of celebi which is important for medicham, and other sets can be abused by charizard or lured and removed by registeel. Sceptile is also a reliable emergency dd tar check, as it outspeeds at + 1 and can easily sub to overgrow/petaya and kill it or get it off the field. This is extremely important as I don’t have a water or ground type. Last I’ll mention is the lead zapdos interaction. Zapdos doesn’t want to status a guts machamp, so sceptile is a good turn 1 switch. It takes tbolt, subs, and starts getting damage immediately in those matchups.
Charizard has been a fixture of mixed offense teams for a while now, and it’s crazy to think that at one point this was a 5BL team. Charizard is perhaps the best pure breaker in OU. It provides a punish to the bulky steels and celebi that tend to get in the way of fighters, and it also tends to land damage on mence, gyara, zapdos, moltres, and other zard - the most important targets to weaken for medicham/fighters. Luring those last two targets is important for sceptile to function. It also provides speed control and another check to cm pixies. The only teams charizard can’t land permanent damage on are milotic teams and to a lesser extent rest suicune teams. However, these pokemon typically aren’t paired with swampert or flygon, and tyranitar has the bulk to live hits from dugtrio and metagross, so tyranitar becomes an effective breaker in those matchups. Ttar + zard is a classic mixed offense core. Also, luring in the mono water types and encouraging them to attack is a good way to get sceptile onto the field and gain momentum/breaking that way. Zard also greatly threatens big 5 tss in a similar way to machamp, and I already talked about why that’s important. I started off with dragon claw + beat up, but quickly switched to sub punch as I feel it’s the most consistent set overall. During my ladder run I liked attacking without revealing sub first because often opponents would be so weak to zard they’d pull crazy moves like staying in with skarmory just to prevent a free sub. This play also might make the opponent less likely to scout for sub later. Being able to self-toggle blaze is a lot more useful than I initially thought. I chose to run hasty to maximize revenge killing opportunities. Sub punch also has the ability to remove tyranitar from the game sometimes. Were I to do this run again, I would consider a set of fire/grass/brick break/beat up as this set tends to land damage on ttar more easily, meaning the opponent is more likely to sacrifice it later and I can clear weather for medicham.
Registeel is pretty simple. It just has the bulk, typing, and just good enough offensive properties to tie this team together. Usually offenses like this will use metagross, and I’m not sure registeel is better than metagross here, but it’s a really good alternative. The extra special defense is amazing in the early and mid game for many reasons, one of them being it’s just about as safe of a turn 1 mence switchin as you can get. It encourages lead salamence to switch to a spiker or use fire blast, so charizard is a decent pivot on turn 2. Obviously it’s my primary form of aerodactyl control until medicham can get a sweep off, but bulky tar takes on that role a little bit as well. With twave, counter and boom, regi is able to pretty reliably trade with metagross and ground types or lure in celebi/blissey/mono waters and boom them. The regis are amazing for this challenge because with bulk and explosion, they basically help patch any defensive hole in a very claydol-esque way. I think if metagross was banned for whatever reason, registeel would be an OU staple.
Medicham is the win con here. Not too much to say about it. I tried endure + bulk up, but I found that the attack boost was really unnecessary most of the time. If you’re in a position where medi has reached 1hp, tar is dead and the weather is clear, you’re probably winning anyway. It’s just that strong, even with jolly. This thing has a >50% roll to delete even agility metagross from full. The 80hp bulk was actually very useful in a few games. I prefer sub here because it guards from status, people don’t expect both sub and endure, and it allows you to self-activate salac and reversal in situations where you haven’t managed to clear sand. Medi of course wants sand cleared, but I won more than a couple games with it with sand still up. 80-100BP on reversal can still get the job done sometimes, and shadow ball still OHKO’s gengar. The team is so focused on chipping flying types that you don’t always need full power. And, while we’re on the subject of weather clear, let’s talk about how tyranitar interacts with offensive teams a little. Dugtrio is never fitting here, the OU slots are too valuable. So how do I lure tar out and remove it? Well, tyranitar is almost never the primary win condition on any teams. It’s not really a wall either. It’s not a speedy revenge killer. It’s built as an all-purpose utility mon that helps create conditions so that other members of your team can win. I mean, that’s exactly what it does on my team. This all means that, once tyranitar has done some damage and fallen to about half health, it’s pretty expendable. This quirk of tyranitar is what makes trapless weather clear offense possible in theory. If something with a more important defensive role like swampert had sand stream, this team wouldn’t work. Tyranitar is the type of mon that likes to stay in and sacrifice its health to prevent you from getting momentum. For my team, this means that sceptile, non-subbed charizard, registeel, and tyranitar are all able to wear opposing tar down to the point where it becomes an all-important sac. Finally, even if you’re unable to remove tar in the end, sub helps medicham still beat ttar 1v1 and reach salac in a last ditch effort to win.
In closing, I won’t say this team is perfect, but I hope you agree that it’s both functional and creative. There’s more I could say about it, and I think there’s more optimization to be done, but I think that minutiae is expressed best with replays rather than essays. I’ll share some example replays from my run below as well as a list of all of my games from 1500-1780. This serves as a bit of a farewell post as well. Consider it an homage to ADV and mons in general. This game is almost limitless in terms of creativity. That’s what keeps me coming back. I’m not leaving Pokemon, but I am taking a step back. I’m married, I’m starting to have more responsibility at work, I’m starting a new grad school course on Tuesday, and I’ll admit I’m a just little bit out of shape for my liking. I need to spend less time staring at fantastical pixel creatures from my childhood lolol. You will probably never see me compete in high level tournaments, but I really have dedicated a lot of time to this tier and learned a lot in the process. I think getting top 6 on ladder with four BLs proves that. Above all I hope this post shows how I think about this tier and inspires someone else to build something cool or learn something new about the tier. I also want to thank guys like Vapicuno, ABR, Mana, BKC, Altina, Watermess and countless others - even though we aren’t friends per se I always appreciate your willingness to share your thoughts, answer questions, and help guys like me mature in their understanding of this game. It goes a long way. I also of course have to thank my friends Giraffe, Fruhdazi, Zacpz, Blues, Shock3600, PkLeech, LWB, Seradess, and many others for being partners in the study of this game and keeping it fun. Cheers!
Select replays:
Machamp is bulky enough to avert a dd gyara sweep:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3ou-2281524000-jaw6j14hl805mnyculm938rkkz5zy6opw?p2
Sub + endure confuses the opponent and leads to a sweep:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3ou-2281635362-bg8so91e82kbbmmar36k48ri3m9lqthpw?p2
DD tar acts as a salamence lure with good prediction, paving the way for medicham:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3ou-2281677286-k0yhkoalii39ti9ep1honcu4wtjenbjpw
Tar + zard synergy on full display:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3ou-2281715106-776lxif0ixsnrpdxorf9cmd7i0bsoz9pw
Machamp breaks claydol allowing tar to function, and medicham pulls it out in the end:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3ou-2281776688-k2josq4oz75f4lxz4o2985vsyxs5sfdpw?p2
I think medicham would have won this one in sand if I killed metagross on turn 26 instead of sunny day’ing:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3ou-2281810113-df98qv8g8tsl8lwyyt6c7enbk8unnx2pw
Machamp + Charizard is too much for a superman core to handle:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3ou-2281843571-j0i7j0lzk2zek5l4990ev735zz72778pw?p2
Machamp shows how dangerous it can be vs mixmence teams, and I also reach 1700 for the first time:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3ou-2281848559-ef8ma4roun9c8g9m94325ltfy53xp6spw?p2
Didn’t play this well, but medicham got a win in sand without its salac:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3ou-2282369429-fchptg39x4tmaxwkqqvq036pxhg7wxapw?p2
Messy game, may have won if I immediately went out to tyranitar against dd mence, but nonetheless shows the effectiveness of my breaking core:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3ou-2282543945-t9v4ayqp1nzmuide1yfhxcsxviigc68pw?p2
Medicham is used defensively here in support of a tar win:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3ou-2282549780-yhb66j5u2ygwz2z02pagiludglzld88pw?p2
Really interesting game, shows the team’s ability to adapt to unfamiliar scenarios and threats (mach breloom is a huge threat):
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3ou-2282819410-pws9nd680zg167fgnvfp2pvynfv2w59pw?p2
Winning off the strength of machamp + charizard alone. Sceptile also showing its value, keeping me safe from dd tar even with machamp dead:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3ou-2282849489-9qqy495allh4nwp4hpp70rz0x79n7yypw
1780 peak (yes, I got lucky):
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3ou-2283110965-xk7bha2epojxnr9ebje4qcjnyt033hnpw
Game that ended my run. Honestly it’s my fault, I could have subbed down/endured to 1hp and avoided crits as swampert had revealed an offensive spread and would die from full. Still, the crit stings. ggs everyone!
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3ou-2283118376-svy6fdx5zvszsb3pliho2d76x97ufg7pw?p2
All replays 1500-1780:
https://pastebin.com/VPDYZwt6
Smeargle @ Lum Berry 
Magneton's for Skarm
landing Spore on Skarm is big for recipients who are at risk of getting phazed, but if Skarm switches in on the turn you're switching out going to Magneton wastes the attack boost. MixZap can scare Skarm out and continue the chain or even muscle through Celebi with Drill Peck.
/ 
Agiligross and DDMence double as abusers and late game cleaners.
Okay bear with me on this one.
Mixed Blaziken
SubPunch Zard
Medicham
SubSeed Breloom
SubCM Rachi
SubRoar Suicune
Maybe? Kinda deadweight if you give the pass to someone else.
SubSalac Heracross
SubLiechi Aero
Taunt DDGyara
if Electivire came out 1 gen earlier he'd be tailor fit for this position. As is Electabuzz doesn't hit hard enough to justify bringing as a mon that's pretty underwhelming the rest of the time.
Marowak is the eponymous example of SpeedPass, but in my limited exp I found that +1 just wasn't enough speed for him to pull his own weight. Maybe a different team that mixes in ParaSpam and has DDPass in the back can find something here?
A lot of the electric hits Smeargle is EV'd to live put him into range of dying to sand, but if you're not worried about that TTar in the back probably works pretty well. There could be a different archetype here that aims to Pursuit Trap ghosts and setup a fighting or normal type in the back, but I haven't found anything yet.
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