SP Shared Power

Goldbanker27 said:
I want to bring up a point you might be missing and that is the bulk that Uber/Legendary pokemon provide.

Take a look at the list you stated, then go look at finnegans berry team with giratina, vnmmz teams he listed giratina, palkia, dialga, terapagos, Byleths team with zamazenta, solegaleo, my angershell team spamming ubers pokemon, Bobs classic stall with giratina, InkyDarkBirds regenerator stall with HoOh, Ballz number 1 teams with arceus, giratina, and fluttermane. All of these teams that hit the top 25 all use at least 1 if not more legendaries/uber pokemon. These pokemon all play an extremely pivotal part of the team and are not just donors. For the most part they are the answer to the opponent's strongest pokemon likely another legendary/uber because they can take multiple hits with very little defensive investment and dish out crazy damage with no setup. Just putting this out there it might be an interesting shake up to ban all ubers and allow testing on others.

Just to bring in a bit of data that I have from playing all of you using the same data I collected from my adaptability post. My average win rate is 70.1% over this collection period of 3-4 months my average ranking over this time was 1419 highest being 1677 and lowest 1192 during this time, logging a total of 930 games.

The worst performing uber pokemon that I have played against is roaring moon with a 10% win rate in 10 games and the best performing uber is Palkia-Origin at 83.3% winrate in only 6 games. The best and worst win rates with over 30 games played against are Arceus-Dragon with 56.7% win rate in the top 6 and ursa luna-blood moon at 26.7% win rate bottom 3. The most used uber in the meta is Giratina-Origin with a win rate of 42.3% with 97 battles against it. The average win rate against me for an uber ranked pokemon is 40.57%. In general putting an uber level pokemon on your team increases your win rate significantly roughly 10% for people playing against me. They are just that good even if they are not donating a good ability in the case of palkia, and arceus.
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I suppose I should clarify my position a little more: I don't have a problem with Ubers in this meta. I make use of a few myself to great effect and I think they add great flavor to the meta without completely defining it (well...MOSTLY, but we'll get back to that). Shared Power as a meta is defined by its momentum, where having strong checks and counters are necessary if you want to win. If your opponent is hyper offensive, you need a good revenge killer to stop it from sweeping. If the opponent is stall, you need something that can go nova on it to prevent it from recovering all its health with Sitrus Berry + Ripen + Cheek Pounch. The problem I am seeing is that many players can just skip the game of checks and balances by slapping a Scarf on two or three high-damage Pokémon and see a significant degree of success. Legendaries are typically at the forefront of the problem, given their huge BSTs and solid move pools, but I think the crux of the problem lies in the speed control of the meta.

Outside of stall teams (mostly, but again, we're getting there), this meta is all about speed. Scarf, Sash to survive being outsped, priority, super priority, super DUPER priority, speed control is essential to winning consistently for most teams here, which is why Scarf spam is so prevalent. The shared power (tee hee) of your abilities lets your team bypass power limits, and the Scarf lets you bypass speed limits. Unless you are specifically running stall team abilities, almost no Pokémon in the meta will survive a hit from a Steely Spirit + Adaptability + Sand Force Sunsteel Strike from Solgalio, and thanks to Scarf, next to no Pokémon can revenge KO it, unless they have a good type advantage (something further complicated by Tera). It essentially forces the opponent to sacrifice 2 Pokémon to beat it, and if you've got 3 Pokémon with that kinda power on your team, it's just a numbers game at that point. I think limiting the Choice Scarf item would largely remedy this problem, as it now means players have to actually play the speed control game of the meta, rather than bypassing it.

That being said, I think there's one uber Pokémon that absolutely DOES deserve a ban. It's time I finally address the elephant in the room...or rather the dire wolf.

Zamazenta. This stupid, ridiculous Pokémon. Bulk that makes the best stallers envious (helped even further by ally abilities like Fluffy or Vessel of Ruin), one of the best unrestricted abilities in the entire meta, able to setup sweep using its defensive stat, but the best part, OH the best part, is that Zamazenta is the 4th fastest Pokémon in the entire meta, outsped only by Dragapult, Electrode, and Deoxys. That's absurd. How on earth has this Pokémon NOT been banned yet? Even potential counters like Booster Energy Iron Valiant and Flutter Mane or Specs Draco Meteor Dragapult aren't reliable thanks to Tera-Steel. Zamazenta is an absolute terror in this meta, and I think it has MORE than demonstrated why it should be considered for removal from Shared Power.
 
I think I disagree with your analysis.
The idea that defensive abilities are limited to stall is kind of absurd to me. Balance archetypes run defensive abilities in SP, and they always have. You need both defense and offense for a balance team, and the easiest way to get either in SP is through abilities (though big beefy stat sticks like Giratina and zamazenta don’t hurt). That means that unless you are playing HO yourself (and therefore running your own equally scary sash or scarf or priority threats) you *can* take a hit from their pokémon.

Most balance rn is Berry (though I’ve been experimenting with a rain team to decent success) so being able to take one hit is basically enough for them to no-sell a scarf or sash sweeper, because they get a full or near full heal afterward.

Good setup sweepers are hard to fit on teams that put scarves on their best ability abusers, so choosing to put scarf on your sweepers is very much a tradeoff, usually between the HO matchup, and the balance and stall matchups. Right now, I have been seeing a lot more balance than HO on the ladder, a few weeks ago, the opposite was true, and that shifts pretty regularly in my experience, but I don’t find that scarf actually helps people that much, and I usually rejoice when I scout out a scarf on something, because it almost always makes my job as the more defensive player way easier.

And in regards to zamazenta, I think it is very strong, but it really doesn’t feel unhealthy to me atm? I think its main strength lies in the matchup against HO and that balance and stall both take it relatively well because it’s ability works best in short games, and it lacks reliable recovery outside of Berry teams. It certainly still provides a significant threat in those matchups, but it doesn’t feel overwhelming, just good.

Without any Ubers in the tier, I think it would be banworthy (it isn’t technically an uber itself though, since it is legal in OU), but Giratina with any sort of defensive support deals with it well, so does Ho-oh, and burn in general is pretty crippling to it (honestly burn is highly underrated in the meta game in general—the teams it is best against don’t run immunity to it anyway).

I sort of feel like you are complaining about one aspect of the game, and then about one of the forms of counterplay. That, to me, indicates a broader problem at play. That’s why banning Ubers seems reasonable to me in the case that a problem does exist (though as an individual, I think the meta is fine, honestly). In general I tend to prefer broad conceptual changes over individual bans. That’s pretty much the opposite of how smogon operates though, and so it’s the opposite of how most players here think about balance.
 
I really don’t think balance exists at all in this meta. Most “defensive” Pokemon are literally just ability donors such as Houndstone, Giratina-Origin, and Zamazenta, which either aren’t defensive Pokemon (Houndstone), lack the bulk to actually stop most sweepers (Giratina-Origin), or are sweepers themselves (Zamazenta).

A real balance team only exists when a defensive wall can actually switch in against multiple attackers and provide proper pivoting to their own team’s attackers. There is literally no defensive wall that can do that in Shared Power outside of Regen stall teams and Berry stall teams. Furthermore, Berry teams are usually bulky offense or stall teams, not balance, because the sweepers that they use are either Zamazenta or Ursaluna-Bloodmoon, both of which use defensive setup moves instead of immediately attacking. Maushold can technically be a sweeper on Berry teams, but it’s usually there just for Cheek Pouch and clearing hazards the majority of the time.

Using Ho-Oh on a non-stall team just to wall Zamazenta seems extremely sketchy. Ho-Oh without support loses to Quaquaval, Basculegion, Crawdaunt, Galvantula, Lycanrocs, Golurk, Zangoose, and even Solgaleo in most cases. Aside from “walling” Zamazenta (Stone Edge), what exactly is Ho-Oh offering to a regular offense team? It has a decent attack stat but is far too slow to use it, it lacks pivoting, doesn’t like how special spam is bad, etc.

What Pokemon do the “balance” teams that you are seeing use?
 
InkyDarkBird said:
I really don’t think balance exists at all in this meta. Most “defensive” Pokemon are literally just ability donors such as Houndstone, Giratina-Origin, and Zamazenta, which either aren’t defensive Pokemon (Houndstone), lack the bulk to actually stop most sweepers (Giratina-Origin), or are sweepers themselves (Zamazenta).

A real balance team only exists when a defensive wall can actually switch in against multiple attackers and provide proper pivoting to their own team’s attackers. There is literally no defensive wall that can do that in Shared Power outside of Regen stall teams and Berry stall teams. Furthermore, Berry teams are usually bulky offense or stall teams, not balance, because the sweepers that they use are either Zamazenta or Ursaluna-Bloodmoon, both of which use defensive setup moves instead of immediately attacking. Maushold can technically be a sweeper on Berry teams, but it’s usually there just for Cheek Pouch and clearing hazards the majority of the time.

Using Ho-Oh on a non-stall team just to wall Zamazenta seems extremely sketchy. Ho-Oh without support loses to Quaquaval, Basculegion, Crawdaunt, Galvantula, Lycanrocs, Golurk, Zangoose, and even Solgaleo in most cases. Aside from “walling” Zamazenta (Stone Edge), what exactly is Ho-Oh offering to a regular offense team? It has a decent attack stat but is far too slow to use it, it lacks pivoting, doesn’t like how special spam is bad, etc.

What Pokemon do the “balance” teams that you are seeing use?
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Not to speak for finnaggann , but I think the best examples of balance teams are 260Torrent ‘s teams, both the one in this thread and more recently on ladder. They tend to use Houndstone + AV Heatran, which come in multiple times per game. They’re backed up with a breaking team of Arceus-Dragon and Latios. The Arceus isn’t a final sweeper mon with CM but has Agility instead, and I think the Latios is scarfed. It’s a team that I admire since it seems like after Regidrago leads, the mons can hit the field in any order. In general, I think that Fluffy + Levitate is the best foundation for balance. Ting-Lu is another good defensive piece that can pair with more offensive stuff that appreciates its hazards and phazing ability. A good example is this old neutral karma team https://pokepast.es/6229748a5a81490e .
But I agree with your point that balance is a footnote at best right now. That list I gave here is pretty short. Fluffy is at its nadir right now imo, and that makes compressing the defensive side a tough task.

This is hardly an original thought but I’m going to say it anyway: maybe the nutty speed tiers and scarf spam are because balance is bad. Broadly, nothing has the bulk and power to take a hit and KO back outside of Zamazenta. I think it’s worth considering if we should pursue unbans instead of bans to raise the power level of the middling-speed metagame. I’m thinking something like Kingambit, Multiscale, or Eternatus. Those might be extreme, and ig the survey results will speak for themselves (coming soon!).
 
InkyDarkBird said:
I really don’t think balance exists at all in this meta. Most “defensive” Pokemon are literally just ability donors such as Houndstone, Giratina-Origin, and Zamazenta, which either aren’t defensive Pokemon (Houndstone), lack the bulk to actually stop most sweepers (Giratina-Origin), or are sweepers themselves (Zamazenta).

A real balance team only exists when a defensive wall can actually switch in against multiple attackers and provide proper pivoting to their own team’s attackers. There is literally no defensive wall that can do that in Shared Power outside of Regen stall teams and Berry stall teams. Furthermore, Berry teams are usually bulky offense or stall teams, not balance, because the sweepers that they use are either Zamazenta or Ursaluna-Bloodmoon, both of which use defensive setup moves instead of immediately attacking. Maushold can technically be a sweeper on Berry teams, but it’s usually there just for Cheek Pouch and clearing hazards the majority of the time.

Using Ho-Oh on a non-stall team just to wall Zamazenta seems extremely sketchy. Ho-Oh without support loses to Quaquaval, Basculegion, Crawdaunt, Galvantula, Lycanrocs, Golurk, Zangoose, and even Solgaleo in most cases. Aside from “walling” Zamazenta (Stone Edge), what exactly is Ho-Oh offering to a regular offense team? It has a decent attack stat but is far too slow to use it, it lacks pivoting, doesn’t like how special spam is bad, etc.

What Pokemon do the “balance” teams that you are seeing use?
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I must admit that I was perhaps looser than may be appropriate with the term “balance”. I am native to vgc, and it seems I have misused this term that is native to singles.

substitute “bulky offense” for most uses of “balance” in my orginal statement and I think most of my points still have merit.

I am however using a team I think does count as balance, with Ting Lu, Wo Chien, hydration Alomomola, and my pet Giratina-Altered supporting Basculegion-male and scarfed Politoed as rain sweepers.

Giratina altered is a Pokémon that can survive basically anything thrown at it when the ruin abilities are up, and it can use that survivability to chip, burn, or phase enemy Pokémon to make room for a sweep with either basculegion or politoed. Hydration rest gives it reliable enough recovery to Repeat as necessary, and Alomomola allows for smooth defensive pivots into sweepers if a raw switch into one is too risky. Worst case I sac a weakened defensive mon (usually Wo chien) to get a sweeper in at the right time.

Currently I’m 1400 with it (from ~1250 where worse hydration teams got me), but I haven’t made any major push, and it feels pretty capable of going farther.

Balance is probably still the least broadly viable archetype atm but I think it might also simply deserve more exploration. The exodia style of team building that this meta makes so enticing definitely doesn’t work for building balance, and I think that can lead to a lack of popularity regardless of technical viability. With the specific style of balance used in the past falling off with houndstone’s apparent downfall, I could easily see new balance teams simply not showing up in the honestly quite short time since said fall, because finding new viable balance strategies isn’t in and of itself anybody’s goal.
 
I’m seeing a lot of “ban zama” in this thread, and I just want to say that restricting dauntless shield might be a fine option since it would no longer be a mon that fits onto every archetype

The scarf sets still could be very scary however
 
jl36808 said:
I’m seeing a lot of “ban zama” in this thread, and I just want to say that restricting dauntless shield might be a fine option since it would no longer be a mon that fits onto every archetype

The scarf sets still could be very scary however
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I'm assuming the reason why people want Zamazenta banned isn't just because of Dauntless Shield, but because of how powerful it immediately is when it hits the field. Unlike most other fast sweepers, Zamazenta is much bulkier, which actually allows it to set up Iron Defense and not get immediately OHKOed (at least physically) if it cannot OHKO its target. Because of these factors, the only real teams that can actually deal with Zamazenta reliably are stall (Taunt is useless for it most of the time) and berries (which can use Zamazenta too). Ghosts and Psychic Pokemon simply get Crunched after an easy Tera Steel (special spam, Deoxys + Flutter Mane), and Steel spam and Dragon spam just get Body Pressed.

Looking at https://www.smogon.com/stats/2025-06/moveset/gen9sharedpower-1500.txt, we can see that Zamazenta's most common set weighted 1500 was Leftovers, Focus Sash and Assault Vest (maybe for special spam MU fishing? idk), and Choice Scarf, with an extremely fast Jolly spread using Crunch, Body Press/Close Combat, Iron Defense, Stone Edge, Heavy Slam/Iron Head, random coverage, etc. Zamazenta's most common teammates were Quaquaval, Solgaleo, Lycanroc-Dusk, Basculegion, Ursaluna-Bloodmoon, etc. While it is clear that Pokemon such as Solgaleo easily enjoy the added bulk to set up an Agility a sweep more easily on Steel spam, Ursaluna-Bloodmoon being at 20% as a partner is funnily similar to November 2023, the month before Zamazenta-Crowned got banned, as well as illustrating how powerful Zamazenta is in the current meta due to how much worth it has to simply dedicate 1 entire team slot to that Pokemon. In fact, Ursaluna-Bloodmoon's #3 most common teammate is Zamazenta at 50%, although that might more be showing how powerful Berry teams are since Maushold and Trevenant are #1 and #2.

In fact, if Dauntless Shield is restricted, I'm not sure many archetypes will be that heavily affected. Since Dauntless Shield is only a one-time boost, the only scenario where you would actually want to send out Zamazenta as an ability donor instead of a sweeper is if you have a more powerful sweeper that will come in later. Because of this, Berry teams and Zamazenta teams probably won't change much because they both use Zamazenta as their primary sweeper and don't want to switch out Zamazenta in most cases. I believe a restriction on Dauntless Shield would only really weaken Solgaleo teams, since I think it is the only setup sweeper that is potentially stronger than Zamazenta.

Anyways, any action on Zamazenta or Dauntless Shield likely buffs Guts priority spam as a whole. If action is taken, we might see some of those teams come back.
 
InkyDarkBird said:
I'm assuming the reason why people want Zamazenta banned isn't just because of Dauntless Shield, but because of how powerful it immediately is when it hits the field. Unlike most other fast sweepers, Zamazenta is much bulkier, which actually allows it to set up Iron Defense and not get immediately OHKOed (at least physically) if it cannot OHKO its target. Because of these factors, the only real teams that can actually deal with Zamazenta reliably are stall (Taunt is useless for it most of the time) and berries (which can use Zamazenta too). Ghosts and Psychic Pokemon simply get Crunched after an easy Tera Steel (special spam, Deoxys + Flutter Mane), and Steel spam and Dragon spam just get Body Pressed.

Looking at https://www.smogon.com/stats/2025-06/moveset/gen9sharedpower-1500.txt, we can see that Zamazenta's most common set weighted 1500 was Leftovers, Focus Sash and Assault Vest (maybe for special spam MU fishing? idk), and Choice Scarf, with an extremely fast Jolly spread using Crunch, Body Press/Close Combat, Iron Defense, Stone Edge, Heavy Slam/Iron Head, random coverage, etc. Zamazenta's most common teammates were Quaquaval, Solgaleo, Lycanroc-Dusk, Basculegion, Ursaluna-Bloodmoon, etc. While it is clear that Pokemon such as Solgaleo easily enjoy the added bulk to set up an Agility a sweep more easily on Steel spam, Ursaluna-Bloodmoon being at 20% as a partner is funnily similar to November 2023, the month before Zamazenta-Crowned got banned, as well as illustrating how powerful Zamazenta is in the current meta due to how much worth it has to simply dedicate 1 entire team slot to that Pokemon. In fact, Ursaluna-Bloodmoon's #3 most common teammate is Zamazenta at 50%, although that might more be showing how powerful Berry teams are since Maushold and Trevenant are #1 and #2.

In fact, if Dauntless Shield is restricted, I'm not sure many archetypes will be that heavily affected. Since Dauntless Shield is only a one-time boost, the only scenario where you would actually want to send out Zamazenta as an ability donor instead of a sweeper is if you have a more powerful sweeper that will come in later. Because of this, Berry teams and Zamazenta teams probably won't change much because they both use Zamazenta as their primary sweeper and don't want to switch out Zamazenta in most cases. I believe a restriction on Dauntless Shield would only really weaken Solgaleo teams, since I think it is the only setup sweeper that is potentially stronger than Zamazenta.

Anyways, any action on Zamazenta or Dauntless Shield likely buffs Guts priority spam as a whole. If action is taken, we might see some of those teams come back.
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Removing Zamazenta sends Hustle stocks to the moon more so than guts imo. We already have a hard enough time living 1 steel sunstrike/stone edge/dragon darts with zamazenta available. Byleths stone edge spam for example https://pokepast.es/954224955df76f29 would be absolutely dominate, with the main check being zamazenta. Tablets of Ruin does not do enough against those teams. Not to mention the priority spam that removing zama would open up. If Zamazenta gets banned, hustle almost has to follow suit. A restriction on hustle would be fine imo if zamazenta is banned. Right now a ton of pokemon rely on the dauntless shield boost for neccasary bulk to protect from a priority attack in the case of dragapult or for much needed setup in the case of solegaleo/iron crown/arceus.

Below are some calculations with tera/hustle/adapt/(dragonsmaw/steely spirit/rocky payload) for moves that get past fluffy on bulky pokemon. No safe switches here.

+1 252 Atk Iron Plate Adaptability Tera Steel Solgaleo Sunsteel Strike 150bp vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Tablets of Ruin Ho-Oh: 199-235 (47.9 - 56.6%) -- 87.5% chance to 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Adaptability Tera Dragon Dragapult Dragon Darts (2 hits) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Tablets of Ruin Ho-Oh: 270-320 (65 - 77.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Tera Rock Lycanroc Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Tablets of Ruin Solgaleo: 209-246 (43.7 - 51.4%) -- 8.2% chance to 2HKO
 
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Goldbanker27 said:
Removing Zamazenta sends Hustle stocks to the moon more so than guts imo. We already have a hard enough time living 1 steel sunstrike/stone edge/dragon darts with zamazenta available. Byleths stone edge spam for example https://pokepast.es/954224955df76f29 would be absolutely dominate, with the main check being zamazenta. Tablets of Ruin does not do enough against those teams. Not to mention the priority spam that removing zama would open up. If Zamazenta gets banned, hustle almost has to follow suit. A restriction on hustle would be fine imo if zamazenta is banned. Right now a ton of pokemon rely on the dauntless shield boost for neccasary bulk to protect from a priority attack in the case of dragapult or for much needed setup in the case of solegaleo/iron crown/arceus.

Below are some calculations with tera/hustle/adapt/(dragonsmaw/steely spirit/rocky payload) for moves that get past fluffy on bulky pokemon. No safe switches here.

+1 252 Atk Iron Plate Adaptability Tera Steel Solgaleo Sunsteel Strike 150bp vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Tablets of Ruin Ho-Oh: 199-235 (47.9 - 56.6%) -- 87.5% chance to 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Adaptability Tera Dragon Dragapult Dragon Darts (2 hits) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Tablets of Ruin Ho-Oh: 270-320 (65 - 77.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Tera Rock Lycanroc Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Tablets of Ruin Solgaleo: 209-246 (43.7 - 51.4%) -- 8.2% chance to 2HKO
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Sounds to me like the real culprit here is No Guard. Hustle is good, but without the assistance of accuracy-boosting abilities it would become very inconsistent. No Guard is especially scary in conjunction with Hustle because it lets you use the most powerful moves available without fear of ever missing (Stone Edge, Population Bomb, Triple Axel, etc.) Compound Eyes sort of does this too, but to a much lesser degree, as a 30% boost in accuracy teamed with the 20% reduction of Hustle means that for practical use you still need to be using more accurate moves. And it's not just physical teams using No Guard either: the #1 team on the ladder right now is a guy using No Guard + Sniper + Super Luck Raging Bolt with Zap Cannon and Zamazenta with Stone Edge. No Guard is very good for letting you crank up the power of your Pokémon for very little cost.
 
I'm not exactly sure why you think No Guard is more banworthy than Hustle when No Guard without Hustle is not banworthy. Running No Guard without Hustle is nearly pointless for physical teams since No Guard is either useless or it can almost always be replaced by Compound Eyes or Skill Link. However, running Hustle without No Guard can still be extremely powerful since physical teams can simply use Compound Eyes and still give roughly the same result besides being more frustrating to use. I believe the only physical teams that will likely be massively affected by a No Guard restriction are Maushold teams and Rockspam.

Your example of the #1 player, antsdownmypants, using special Pokemon with No Guard to prove that No Guard is broken on special attackers isn't exactly true either. You don't exactly prove how No Guard allowing special Pokemon to boost their power makes No Guard more broken than merely just boosting Hustle teams.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9sharedpower-2404622335
The 3 special attackers on their team are Honchkrow, Inteleon, and Raging Bolt. Of these Pokemon's moves (assumptions), Hurricane, Zap Cannon, Hydro Pump, and Blizzard all benefit from using No Guard, but all of these moves can easily be boosted by Compound Eyes to an accuracy of 91% besides Zap Cannon, which is arguably worse than Thunder since Zap Cannon is blocked by Bulletproof (Deoxys skill issue). If you believe No Guard allowing special spammers to use usually inaccurate moves accurately is broken, how exactly is Compound Eyes boosting these moves (70% acc or higher) to 91% or higher not banworthy? With both No Guard and Compound Eyes, a special Pokemon is highly likely going to hit your Pokemon with a usually inaccurate but powerful move.
 
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Yeah, “Hustle wouldn’t be broken without No Guard” isn’t an argument that No Guard is unbalanced. And a team reaching number one is not really a sign of what is overpowered at all. Reaching number one is a matter of being reactive to the meta, innovative in team building, and putting in the time.
Reaching number one with something could inspire people to try the ideas used and then people might discover it is broken, but the sample size of one player is not useful for understanding a meta.
Something being broken is a broader problem is the meta, and there is no evidence no guard is that without hustle.

But… personally I think the meta is fine. It varies lots from day to day and I see lots of innovation even (or perhaps especially) at higher ranks, which suggests to me that nothing is actually overcentralizing even if some things are really quite good. A bunch of people decided solgaleo (and steel spam as a whole) was really good (maybe even broken), and then lots of people used it, now zamazenta is in the same spot, and steel spam isn’t as popular because Zam is great against steel spam.

I think people started considering tiering action in a meta environment that looked different than the one right now, and while the momentum of that has carried on, it has shifted to different targets because the old targets stopped feeling so broken.
It’s also possible that the old targets and the new targets are all just abusers of a common problem, in which case the broader situation needs changing.

That seems to be the theory behind banning hustle, but I don’t find that hustle teams are unbeatable with non-hustle teams, usually, I find that they are the easiest to beat, because I’ve already prepared for them in the team builder and I already know what they’ll be doing.

But maybe I just can’t perceive anything as broken because the meta is so matchup fishy. That’s not going to change through tiering action though. That’s a product of the broader design of SP and the low concurrent player counts most OMs have.
 
InkyDarkBird said:
I'm not exactly sure why you think No Guard is more banworthy than Hustle when No Guard without Hustle is not banworthy. Running No Guard without Hustle is nearly pointless for physical teams since No Guard is either useless or it can almost always be replaced by Compound Eyes or Skill Link. However, running Hustle without No Guard can still be extremely powerful since physical teams can simply use Compound Eyes and still give roughly the same result besides being more frustrating to use. I believe the only physical teams that will likely be massively affected by a No Guard restriction are Maushold teams and Rockspam.

Your example of the #1 player, antsdownmypants, using special Pokemon with No Guard to prove that No Guard is broken on special attackers isn't exactly true either. You don't exactly prove how No Guard allowing special Pokemon to boost their power makes No Guard more broken than merely just boosting Hustle teams.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9sharedpower-2404622335
The 3 special attackers on their team are Honchkrow, Inteleon, and Raging Bolt. Of these Pokemon's moves (assumptions), Hurricane, Zap Cannon, Hydro Pump, and Blizzard all benefit from using No Guard, but all of these moves can easily be boosted by Compound Eyes to an accuracy of 91% besides Zap Cannon, which is arguably worse than Thunder since Zap Cannon is blocked by Bulletproof (Deoxys skill issue). If you believe No Guard allowing special spammers to use usually inaccurate moves accurately is broken, how exactly is Compound Eyes boosting these moves (70% acc or higher) to 91% or higher not banworthy? With both No Guard and Compound Eyes, a special Pokemon is highly likely going to hit your Pokemon with a usually inaccurate but powerful move.
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I'd argue No Guard is better because it provides what Compound Eyes can't: consistency. 90% sounds really good on paper, but we've all had plenty of instances where that 10% costs you the game. Compound Eyes mitigates risk, while No Guard removes it entirely. Mind you, I don't think No Guard, Compound Eyes, or Hustle should be banned (I've been able to handle multiple teams that utilize it just fine and I'm currently #2 on the ladder), I'm just noticing what people have been drifting towards in usage. It's good, but by no means broken or ban-worthy.
 
After playing on and off this has been my most successfully team hitting rank 1 on the ladder.
Crits deal with the majority of team archetypes, high damage and ignoring stat boosts. Stone edge is the arguably the best distributed non contact move to always crit.
i have managed to beat a few shell armor teams through para hax. But i have found it very difficult to adjust to one playstyle without losing to another.
I considered scope lens hawlucia over raging bolt with Mold breaker encore, sd, crosschop/Stone edge but then the match up vs hyper offense gets more difficult. Offense seems to be the most popular playstyle, but if you go too anti-offense. Bulky/stalls teams will eat you. So I think the meta is in a decent spot.
I don't like Tera in this already crazy meta, but it does help find blanket check threats.
Honchkrow with 101hp subs let's it set up on chansey/blissy/garg.
Zam Is picked mainly for high speed and ensuring the team can survive priority hits. If zama was banned outright I would consider fluffly with a fast stab Stone edge.

Lilligant-Hisui @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Hustle
Tera Type: Ice
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Triple Axel
- Close Combat
- Encore
- Defog

Golurk @ Focus Sash
Ability: No Guard
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Poltergeist
- Dynamic Punch
- Stealth Rock
- Bulldoze

Honchkrow @ Scope Lens
Ability: Super Luck
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 32 Def / 16 SpA / 208 Spe
Rash Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Substitute
- Hurricane
- Nasty Plot

Raging Bolt @ Scope Lens
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 80 Def / 252 SpA / 176 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 20 Atk
- Zap Cannon
- Thunderclap
- Body Press
- Draco Meteor

Zamazenta @ Scope Lens
Ability: Dauntless Shield
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 68 Atk / 184 Def / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Iron Defense
- Agility
- Body Press

Inteleon @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sniper
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Blizzard
- U-turn
- Weather Ball
 
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There is not really a "strongest archetype" because of how MU fishy Shared Power currently is. However, you should know that you must be prepared for Pokemon to randomly hold Choice Scarfs and OHKO you back, at least for offensive teams. Focus Sash can also be used, but that is less common.

Viable strategies:
Hustle (Lilligant-Hisui + Lycanroc-Midnight/Golurk)
Steel spam (Perrserker + Solgaleo)
Dragon spam (Regidrago + Dragons)
Crit spam (Urshifu, Inteleon, etc)
Recoil spam (Arcanine-Hisui)
Special spam (Flutter Mane, Deoxys, etc)
Flare Feet (Jolteon + Drifblim)
Zamazenta HO (Zamazenta + Ursaluna-Bloodmoon)
Berry BO (Trevenant + Berry abilities + Ursaluna-Bloodmoon/Zamazenta setup)
Berry stall (Trevenant + other Berry abilities)
Regen stall (my sample, although stall is in a pretty bad spot right now)
Merciless crit spam (ew)
and probably more that I forgot

Example high-ladder games:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9sharedpower-2409329848
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9sharedpower-2401714179
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9sharedpower-2414648968
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9sharedpower-2412464243
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9sharedpower-2412193966

You can find the best Pokemon in the VR, although it is slightly outdated.
 
InkyDarkBird said:
There is not really a "strongest archetype" because of how MU fishy Shared Power currently is. However, you should know that you must be prepared for Pokemon to randomly hold Choice Scarfs and OHKO you back, at least for offensive teams. Focus Sash can also be used, but that is less common.

Viable strategies:
Hustle (Lilligant-Hisui + Lycanroc-Midnight/Golurk)
Steel spam (Perrserker + Solgaleo)
Dragon spam (Regidrago + Dragons)
Crit spam (Urshifu, Inteleon, etc)
Recoil spam (Arcanine-Hisui)
Special spam (Flutter Mane, Deoxys, etc)
Flare Feet (Jolteon + Drifblim)
Zamazenta HO (Zamazenta + Ursaluna-Bloodmoon)
Berry BO (Trevenant + Berry abilities + Ursaluna-Bloodmoon/Zamazenta setup)
Berry stall (Trevenant + other Berry abilities)
Regen stall (my sample, although stall is in a pretty bad spot right now)
Merciless crit spam (ew)
and probably more that I forgot

Example high-ladder games:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9sharedpower-2409329848
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9sharedpower-2401714179
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9sharedpower-2414648968
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9sharedpower-2412464243
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9sharedpower-2412193966
Click to expand...
Appteciate it gng this will be quite useful
 
IsaiahMeep said:
So ting lu zama and bloodmon is the core? Ok not bad is there any other mons that i need to counter meta threats
Click to expand...
You're gonna want Shell Armor. All the Defense in the world isn't going to stop a Sniper + Super Luck Crit from an Ogerpon's Ivy Cudgel. Also something like Guard Dog or Suction Cups to prevent forced switches helps, but I'd recommend just trying out stuff to see what your teams biggest openings are and adjust from there.
 
InkyDarkBird said:
There is not really a "strongest archetype" because of how MU fishy Shared Power currently is. However, you should know that you must be prepared for Pokemon to randomly hold Choice Scarfs and OHKO you back, at least for offensive teams. Focus Sash can also be used, but that is less common.

Viable strategies:
Hustle (Lilligant-Hisui + Lycanroc-Midnight/Golurk)
Steel spam (Perrserker + Solgaleo)
Dragon spam (Regidrago + Dragons)
Crit spam (Urshifu, Inteleon, etc)
Recoil spam (Arcanine-Hisui)
Special spam (Flutter Mane, Deoxys, etc)
Flare Feet (Jolteon + Drifblim)
Zamazenta HO (Zamazenta + Ursaluna-Bloodmoon)
Berry BO (Trevenant + Berry abilities + Ursaluna-Bloodmoon/Zamazenta setup)
Berry stall (Trevenant + other Berry abilities)
Regen stall (my sample, although stall is in a pretty bad spot right now)
Merciless crit spam (ew)
and probably more that I forgot

Example high-ladder games:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9sharedpower-2409329848
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9sharedpower-2401714179
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9sharedpower-2414648968
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9sharedpower-2412464243
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9sharedpower-2412193966

You can find the best Pokemon in the VR, although it is slightly outdated.
Click to expand...
What is Flare Feet why I have never seen it since 2025 started

Well at least I believe Jolteon is not good. It only has a single type so it doesn't synergizes well with Adaptability, and it is forced to run Alluring Voice/Shadow Ball as coverage if it wants to run Sheer Force. Quick Feet also only provides a 1.5x speed boost (not 2x sadly), so you can't run Modest comfortably to boost your average SpA stat (110 Base SpA, significantly lower than Flutter Mane). Not to say you also need an extra move (Protect / Substitute, which means 1 less turn if you rely on PsySurge to stop priority) / good positioning to allow Jolteon to activate it's Flame Orb.
You can see that how the 1630 usage stats deviate heavily from the raw usage stat for Jolteon, which can be interpreted as a potential warning sign that a mon is mainly used for fun at a lower elo.
https://www.smogon.com/stats/2025-07/gen9sharedpower-1630.txt
 
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