Let me articulate myself better
So firstly w a tournament you want to maintain competitiveness. Good playerbase for tiers = good competition = everyone's happy bc they feel like they can win as a manager. This is something that can be mitigated with an auction, which WCOP does not have. On paper, WCOP inherently isn’t a very competitive format right? Entire rosters r based on geographical lines on a map. For example, US West has 2 SM superdemons and a DPP mastermind (maybe as opposed to teams who have 0 of either!). We didn't draft those guys. We just have those guys living close enough together so they coalesce together. While we should aim to keep our formats competitive in this tour and not like, SS 1v1 RU, we should probably maintain that PL and OGPL get more diverse spreads of tiers, and their playerbases are marginally balanced because auctions let you spend for whoever you see entering the pool.
So for WCOP, you revert to ground zero, which is CG. You do this for a few reasons:
1. Regardless of how you feel about it or not, CG is astronomically far and above 1v1's most practical gen to invest team tournaments into. SV has Global Cup, ladder tour, circuits etc. Off tours like UM circuit and UMPL represent it. We have incredible individual rep. Players who want to get better at SV definitely can, but for team tours...
Well, we're in a bit in the mud right now for CG. We have 3 slots in PL and 4 in WCOP. 7, compared to SS's existing 5. And right now, we have dudes like you advocating for SS5, a gen that has almost the same team tournament rep than CG, despite having 1 individual tournament. SS has two slots in PL, proxy 2 slots in OGPL, and you want to advocate for 2 more while offering reasons such as being worried that SV4s are reusing. In fact, with your suggestion, we will have as equal SS rep to SV rep in official 1v1 team tours for 6 to 6! SS, a gen that will be pushed away when gen 10 comes out and reduced back to 1 slot, because you think its in a good place right now. Why not SV? If you watched, SV also saw loads of development as well w/ basculegion/hands spam/fall of prim/ppl finally seeing hoopa is broken etc/more low ranked tiers spam for matchup fish etc). Indi showed that everyone can hard carry themselves in SV by putting creativity and brains together. SV isn't boring, and you don't need to pretend like it is. That's also subjective, just as watching people click 0-3s in SS5 bc they got hamfist rotated in that tier isnt very exciting for me either. Also, SS reuses too btw! Just punish the reusers either way, if you’re better than them you will win. Either way, SV still fails to find adequate team tour representation for the amount of individuals it offers.
I will advocate for 50% of WCOP being CG, whether that be SV or Gen 10 in the future. I don't see why we need to dilute it.
2. WCOP is far and away 1v1's best team tournament for integrating new players. I'll bullet point this in a sec:
Last year, we had 10 teams. 3 of them were pretty green (LA, Mexico, Brazil). Brazil happened to place 5th in standings, almost qualifying over the tournament winners South Europe! They are important for ensuring our WCOP gets numbers, but also happen to be competitive as well. Anyway, why do we care about SV? Why do these things go hand in hand?
edited2 based on mod request
So firstly w a tournament you want to maintain competitiveness. Good playerbase for tiers = good competition = everyone's happy bc they feel like they can win as a manager. This is something that can be mitigated with an auction, which WCOP does not have. On paper, WCOP inherently isn’t a very competitive format right? Entire rosters r based on geographical lines on a map. For example, US West has 2 SM superdemons and a DPP mastermind (maybe as opposed to teams who have 0 of either!). We didn't draft those guys. We just have those guys living close enough together so they coalesce together. While we should aim to keep our formats competitive in this tour and not like, SS 1v1 RU, we should probably maintain that PL and OGPL get more diverse spreads of tiers, and their playerbases are marginally balanced because auctions let you spend for whoever you see entering the pool.
So for WCOP, you revert to ground zero, which is CG. You do this for a few reasons:
1. Regardless of how you feel about it or not, CG is astronomically far and above 1v1's most practical gen to invest team tournaments into. SV has Global Cup, ladder tour, circuits etc. Off tours like UM circuit and UMPL represent it. We have incredible individual rep. Players who want to get better at SV definitely can, but for team tours...
Well, we're in a bit in the mud right now for CG. We have 3 slots in PL and 4 in WCOP. 7, compared to SS's existing 5. And right now, we have dudes like you advocating for SS5, a gen that has almost the same team tournament rep than CG, despite having 1 individual tournament. SS has two slots in PL, proxy 2 slots in OGPL, and you want to advocate for 2 more while offering reasons such as being worried that SV4s are reusing. In fact, with your suggestion, we will have as equal SS rep to SV rep in official 1v1 team tours for 6 to 6! SS, a gen that will be pushed away when gen 10 comes out and reduced back to 1 slot, because you think its in a good place right now. Why not SV? If you watched, SV also saw loads of development as well w/ basculegion/hands spam/fall of prim/ppl finally seeing hoopa is broken etc/more low ranked tiers spam for matchup fish etc). Indi showed that everyone can hard carry themselves in SV by putting creativity and brains together. SV isn't boring, and you don't need to pretend like it is. That's also subjective, just as watching people click 0-3s in SS5 bc they got hamfist rotated in that tier isnt very exciting for me either. Also, SS reuses too btw! Just punish the reusers either way, if you’re better than them you will win. Either way, SV still fails to find adequate team tour representation for the amount of individuals it offers.
I will advocate for 50% of WCOP being CG, whether that be SV or Gen 10 in the future. I don't see why we need to dilute it.
2. WCOP is far and away 1v1's best team tournament for integrating new players. I'll bullet point this in a sec:
Last year, we had 10 teams. 3 of them were pretty green (LA, Mexico, Brazil). Brazil happened to place 5th in standings, almost qualifying over the tournament winners South Europe! They are important for ensuring our WCOP gets numbers, but also happen to be competitive as well. Anyway, why do we care about SV? Why do these things go hand in hand?
- Like I said, SV is the most prime version of 1v1 right now. If you want to play it in PL, UMPL, maybe even other unofficial tours cos we're big enough like HPL and mystic society league or w/e its called etc, you have the easiest time in the world to grind for it. Why give them SS5, a tier they won't have other ways to practice in besides labbing? Even stuff like natdex is hurt by this. But idrc about that (disregarding that natdex has a lot of support/offers teams a new toy to play with since it's relatively unsolved/is adjacent to SV/SM), the goal is for half the tier being CG for me.
- For these new teams, instead of giving them the generation that ppl as old as my grandpa such as neomon play and throwing them in depression solo building jail, having MORE of the same tier encourages teams (and newer teams especially!) to build together and generate team livelihood/unity for winning these tournaments. Yes, maybe teams who dont play 1v1 should be worse. Of course! They all did worse in SV 1v1. Some of these guys also happened to be SS 1v1 demons! However, it doesn't really change the fact that a lot of teams will struggle to find cohesion working together to build a more isolated slot. Don't hurt them by forcing more minds to go to another solo tier.
- Do you think every team has 2 SS players that are welcome to generate stuff on the bat, despite the "tiers" success in PL (another subjective issue? West doesn't! India prob won’t, NE prob won’t either! These new guys won't either! Instead, they might have SV experience by seeing them in indivs/other team tournaments, and can allocate that best rather than forcing them to learn a new gen.
- P.S if you're worried about competitiveness/making the tour too easy to get into, well if you're better you should just win anyway. Adding more solo tiers only increases gaps/makes constantly losing teams demotivated.
- We are in a drought. Some teams are losing most of their playerbase, West being one of them. India and Asia are rumored to be merging. Increasing gaps between old gen mainers and these more random communities coming over to our tournament and playing with us and showing good competitive spirit ain't it. Do we really want them to send them to the DPP Nuxl/stravench blender, or would we rather them try to have a fun time together building the same tier together (SV) and try to one-up our mainers? People who enjoy our tour will come back. Our tiers represent that unity for WCOP. I can't really see how SS5 helps, much less DPP
or even BW (who are finding Srs player drought).EDIT: prob shouldnt have added this part @ BW. BW isnt really competing with SV4 (looking at PL, SM/SS5 playerpool look way more droughty/non mainer-y, and SM is definitely in the tour/way harder to pick up than BW.). The more present point is more CG = teams more unified/learning together. - Finally, players who do well in SV will be more encouraged to come back for PL/indivs. That is easier to obtain if half your team is grinding it compared to going to old gen jail.
- This will bolster our 1v1 community in the future, because again, CG is everything.
edited2 based on mod request
Last edited:
