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Smogon players when they find out moves get cut from movesets almost every generation and they've been playing a different game than the real one for last 5 years....
Wait until they find out what happened to Knock off and Toxic in gen 8....
You know whats really going to be interesting is that gens 8 and 9 killed legacy movesers, but then made a game that transcends gens where you can also learn moves. Im curious if they will update champions accordingly between gena or if some mons will have evergreen moves as tutors from here on. Bisharp unlearning knock off for example was a huge deal.if in gen 11 or something it got it back, would champions allow that?
Personally I'd just expect Champions to update its learnpoools between regulations. Gardevoir gets Recover in Reg 5 but won't validate in Reg 6 if it has that move or something.
We'll probbaly only really have a more concrete answer once Gen 10 comes out
You know whats really going to be interesting is that gens 8 and 9 killed legacy movesers, but then made a game that transcends gens where you can also learn moves. Im curious if they will update champions accordingly between gena or if some mons will have evergreen moves as tutors from here on. Bisharp unlearning knock off for example was a huge deal.if in gen 11 or something it got it back, eould champions allow that?
I would expect as AquaticPanic said that they will update the movesets on the fly.
The most reasonable expectation is that when a new gen releases and Champion updates to "gen 10", the moveset of the pokemon will be updated to their gen 10 versions.
I don't expect Champions to have "multigenerational" options. "Play a gen 1 match" is very likely outside of the scope of the game.
They could use Stadium, but that format is significantly less popular than normal RBY because some of the glitch fixes remove interesting (unintentional) mechanics like the Hyper Beam KO interaction.
They could use Stadium, but that format is significantly less popular than normal RBY because some of the glitch fixes remove interesting (unintentional) mechanics like the Hyper Beam KO interaction.
I do not think they care about representing the on-cart format, though.
In this Miracle Situation where for some reason they're representing older formats*, I think they would probably either err to Stadium or just otherwise revert key mechanics.
So wouldn't do: KOs with Hyper Beam don't let you skip the recharge, Focus Energy does the opposite of what it should, moves have a 1/256
Would do: Return of the "Special" stat, phys/special split reverted, assorted snapped Gen 1 moves, probably bring back speed-based criticals because that was a fundamental part of the system.
*To be clear I think if they did some thing like this it would actually just be like those brief tournaments we had where they limited it to just Pokemon from a given generation and sometimes limited what else you could bring in. So like oh hey its the Rediscover Kanto season, you can only bring the OGs, no items, no super mechanics blah blah blah. But you still have, like, fairy types and the splits and everything uses the modern mechanics because they're not actually changing the fundamentals.
I can think of three possible motivations for the Mega Dragonite design.
1. They wanted to create a Mega and thought some of Dragonair's design elements would improve the design.
2. They wanted to appease the fans who have always disliked Dragonite, but liked Dragonair.
3. They wanted to shut up the Dragonair fans.
Yeah, it's definitely one... THOUGH some factor of and two and maybe even three could also apply. How:
1. At the end of the day the choice to choose Dragonite was there's and they wouldn't have done it unless they felt inspired by a design. For all we know this is one of many Mega Pokemon design suggestions that never got passed the idea phase but was noted and kept for future opportunities. And while the added traits are inspired by Dragonair, it also is presented in such a way it calls back to other grand mystical beings, notably angels and eastern dragons. This is a Mega for a Psuedo Legendary, one of the most popular group of Pokemon, you bet it's design went through dozens if not hundreds of rounds of revisions and approval before where we got. A design I wouldn't be surprised was somewhat result of "made by committee"... which would include the legal department who may reject a design cause it looks too much like an existing fan design...
2. While I don't think that was their main concern with Mega Dragonite, if it was one at all, their is something to say about the appeal of Dragonair. Thinking about it, Dragonair is the only mid-stage of a Psuedo Legendary that has any real presence in the greater Pokemon media. Now part of this is probably thanks to being an original 151 Pokemon, and back in the day the Dragonite family was treated as much as a Legendary as the Legendary Pokemon of the GB era. But even to this day you occasionally see Dragonair get spotlighted sometimes but really no other mid-stage Psuedo Legendary, some even feel non-existent that it might as well be a two-stage family (only exception being Metang but that's because Beldum is the odd child in that family). This could also be due to how Dratini/Dragonair to Dragonite is such a drastic change they feel like two unconnected Pokemon from a quick glance. Pupitar and Shelgon are also a design jump, but they feel like a cocoon stage for Larvitar and Bagon who do look like a baby Tyranitar and Salamence. Thus, Dragonair has been given its own "presence", usually relating to a sea serpent of beauty and grace on par with Milotic, separate from Dragonite that's used as a portrayal of an awe-inspiring creature with a gentle nature but also of great raw power.
Also note, for the previous four Psuedo Legendaries that have Mega Evolved, they all went in their own direction according to their own lore little referencing their previous evos (M-Salamence is maybe the closest with the change to its shelled underbelly; M-Metagross does mention Metang and (two) Beldum but it's more of a throwaway dex line to explain why it has eight limbs now). Dragonite has plenty of its own lore they could have gone a unique direction, but since obviously Dragonair isn't going to receive its own Mega Evolution, this is also in a way Dragonair's only chance for its lore to expanded upon. Thus, the sorta return of Dragonair's traits, which if you place Mega Dragonite in place of normal Dragonite in an evolution line of Dratini and Dragonair sorta does make it match them a bit more.
Top Row: Alright, we start with a cute "little" blue serpent. Evolves to a bigger more developed one. And then evolves... WHOA! When did Orange Barney get here?
Bottom Row: Alright, we start with a cute "little" blue serpent. Evolves to a bigger more developed one. And then evolves... Oh, it change from blue to orange and grew limbs, BUT I can still see the progression via the ear wings, horn, and long tail with an orb.
3. As addressed above, they wouldn't have done Mega Dragonite unless they wanted & were inspired to. HOWEVER, and this has been a long complaint about Mega Evolutions, popular Pokemon often seem to get first draft, and Dragonite is a popular Pokemon. Maybe not as much as some other Pokemon which have already received a Mega, but with four other Pseudo Legendaries having gotten one (notably from Gen 2, 3, and 4), Dragonite certainly feels like it was skipped over. Also, it's Gen 1; GF LOVES Gen 1. While GF usually refuse to be forced to go a direction, they can however be guided.
Probably, but people have speculated for a long time that Game Freak does stuff to intentionally irritate some of the player base. Whether it's justified or not, it's not a new idea and I've seen it brought up for this specific case. The closest thing to it that has been confirmed is the Blaziken thing. Like I said though, I don't think it's likely, I just wouldn't be shocked by it.
Like, I'm not saying it was incorrectly translated, but I would say that it could have been misinterpreted. Japanese is a tricky language, it has lots of homonyms and you usually have to hear/read the entire sentence to know what definition of the word is being used (and even then there can be misunderstandings). I did some limited research and discovered a possible way this could have been misinterpreted.
So the article says the Ken Sugimori said people were supposed to be "disappointed" with the cute Torchic evolving into the serious Blaziken. Now there are certain Japanese words he could have said where that would be undeniable, that no matter the context of the word it would be negative. HOWEVER, in one possible word I found, had Ken Sugimori used "buzen" he could have meant "astonished/dumbfounded". And that would match with the story he told, of Japanese children getting cute "painted chicks" which eventually grow into chickens/roosters losing not only their cuteness but may also become a handful if not harmful to handle; something you can describe both as disappointing but also astonishing. Likewise, you may pick Torchic from the start because its cute but it then evolves into the serious-looking Blaziken, and while some may be disappointed it's no longer cute the transformation is astonishing (and win the player over that way).
Obviously this is all speculation. There is a screenshot of the page HERE where Ken Sugimori said this. If anyone can read Japanese maybe you can confirm/deny my theory (or discover an alternate theory/interpretation).
Let's be honest here, any thought of them including "past gens" in Champions is heavy copium and it's not happening.
We all know that all they'll have is "most modern gen". You don't see other major PvP games (be it card, moba, fps, etc) have permanent "play the format of 10 years ago" do we?
And whenever they do for events, it's not "the game how it was 10 years ago", it's "the units of 10 years ago, but with the modern stats".
Stadium is also playable on the Switch (and I believe Colosseum and XD are at least planned for the Switch 2?).
NGL, what I'd like in Champions would be the different rulesets, rather than just VGC. Tired of weird people saying that's the true game or crap like that.
Little, Poke and Prime Cup rulesets (so, level 5 unevolved stuff that can evolve, level 50 without special Pokemon, level 100 with every species allowed), Challenge cup mode, Singles/Doubles/Triples/Rotation, and ranked battles with the current approach to seasons and tourney play.
And, fwiw, I do believe Dynamax and Tera would kinda need to require specific held items. Always had believed so. Just like Rayquaza should be holding a Meteorite/Jade Orb rather than fugging around.
As for new Megas, gotta love how Mega Dragonite has the same design phylosophy as Mega Tyranitar, and Mega Victreebel is a fun design; hoping my physical Victreebel can use it without issues.
Yeah, and that’s parasocial. It’s people assuming that their tastes and opinions are the center of gravity in GF’s decision-making, and then characterizing and reacting to those decisions based on their own baseless assumption.
Whether it's justified or not, it's not a new idea and I've seen it brought up for this specific case. The closest thing to it that has been confirmed is the Blaziken thing.
The difference here, in context, is the lack of petty vindictiveness. Sugimori is talking about using an experience that is familiar to him, of people being dismayed when painted chicks grow up to not be so cute anymore, and using that experience to guide the design process for the Torchic line. It’s not a response to anyone or anything, it’s just translating an idea — being disappointed with the outcome of something that was originally appealing for a specific reason — through the medium of Pokémon. What your Option 3 is suggesting is that they just specifically wanted to piss off Dragonair fans for some reason and decided to blow a whole design just to spite them.
Something else I find worth discussing - I've seen a lot of people speculate on both of these Pokémon's abilities (for when they eventually get added to a game that has them), but I want to discuss the possibility of them getting new Signature Moves as well. In Legends Arceus pretty much every new Pokémon had a new move (The only ones that weren't signature moves in that game were Arcanine's Raging Fury, Basuclegion's Wave Crash and Ursaluna's Headlong Rush, as the Sinnoh starters all got these moves in PLA as well)
I think Signature Moves could be an interesting way to differentiate Megas in a game without abilities while also giving the base forms something new that they can keep even in games that don't have Megas. Dunno if they'd go out of their way to give every Mega a new move - we're currently at 50 with there definitely being more in store - but I think its likely to see a decent portion of them getting new moves
(Also a small tangent but I think its likely for the Kanto Birds to get signature moves here as well; PLA had signatures for every minor legendary and the birds fill that role in Kalos)
I definitely expect Signature moves to see a fair amount of presence, though this started even before LA where it became "the" distinguishing feature. Ever since Gen 6-7 it feels like every 2nd or 3rd new Pokemon line has something "Signature" even if not totally exclusive or viable, be it moves or abilities.
Regional Birds (Talonflame and Toucannon), Starters, several big 2-stage Mons (Golisopod, Toxtricity, Sinistcha, Toedscruel, Gholdengo), Pseudo Legendaries (Goodra's Gooey, Kommo-o's 3 sig moves and Z-Move, Dragapult's Dragon Darts, Baxcalibur's Glaive Rush and Thermal Exchange), odd Single Stages (Dondozo's Order Up and Tatsugiri's Commander, Espathra, Cramorant, Morpeko, Oricorio), EVERYTHING feels like it has to have a particular gimmick to it that no other line gets rather than being different configurations of existing systems/pieces.
The most I would expect to see is moves that play well with the Mega's gimmick, akin to Mega Heracross's Skill Link leading it to gain Pin Missile and Rock Blast on its learnset. Logically Megas that actually care about having an identity beyond "mon gets Big new look" are easier built to capitalize on what the Mon already does, whether improving a tried-and-true gameplan or finishing an incomplete idea (Zard-X making the popular Physical sets with the stats and a typing to compliment it vs the dozens of Special Fires, Gengar's Shadow Tag to force you to deal with its trickery Support moves instead of pivoting).
Thinking about it, Dragonair is the only mid-stage of a Psuedo Legendary that has any real presence in the greater Pokemon media. Now part of this is probably thanks to being an original 151 Pokemon, and back in the day the Dragonite family was treated as much as a Legendary as the Legendary Pokemon of the GB era.
It might've been more Sugimori's call than anything since he redesigned a lot of the original mons when he drew their game art after they wre sprited for RG. If you look at the Dratini line's RG sprites, you'll see they have more shared elements with Dragonite than their modern designs do.
Given Mega Dragonite's design focuses heavily on its kindness and even ending battles quickly, I can see it getting a signature move called "Wings of Mercy", which will be either 100 or 110 BP, and if it's 110 BP, it'll either have less than 100% accuracy or some other downside given Boombust, Multi-Attack, Techno Blast, and Aura Wheel are the only damage-dealing moves 110 BP and up that have no downside whatsoever.
hawlucha's time for a reveal (i fully forgot it was getting one)
I like that they're getting creative with the way they reveal things, but 2 reveals in 2 weeks? Are we just getting 1 per week now? If it's every Thursday, that's probably like 6 more megas revealed between now and release (it's 7 weeks technically, but would they reveal one on release day?)
I guess it keeps the hype going, considering the Legends series has "less" content than the generational games.
WHO WILL WIN BETWEEN THE SKY-HIGH DIVING HAWLUCHA VS THE UNSCALABLE MOUNTAIN OF MUSCLE THAT IS MACHAMP?! TUNE IN THIS THURSDAY NIGHT FOR A SPIT SWAPPING MAKEOUT MATCH ON THE PWE SUUUUUUUUUPER SLAAAAAAAAM!!!
Prediction: This is going to be for a Mega Hawlucha and a G-Max Machamp fighting against each other in Pokémon Champions. The Hawlucha is going to win because of its higher Speed and the type advantage, but they’re going to play it off like “Mega Evolution is the coolest thing ever!” blah blah blah we’ve seen this before where the generational gimmicks get shoved down our throats. What concerns me more about this is…
I know this is (probably) a joke making fun of them, and I’m sort of joking in that first section, but there is a part of me that’s wondering if they’re secretly in Panic Mode right now. I feel like their advertisement team knows about the fact that they’ve announced only Kanto Megas so far so it’s possible they’re setting this up as an intentional red herring (that is, maybe they’re trying to gaslight people who haven’t seen the leaks into thinking we’re getting a Mega Machamp), but after already going basically all of 2024 with no information on the game and 2025 quite frankly being all over the place for this franchise, I don’t want to too quickly assume they’re hitting the Panic button with what could turn into weekly reveals but it’s starting to feel that way to me.
or they’re just doing what every other company is doing right now and making sure they don’t post or release anything the week silksong comes out lol
Prediction: This is going to be for a Mega Hawlucha and a G-Max Machamp fighting against each other in Pokémon Champions. The Hawlucha is going to win because of its higher Speed and the type advantage, but they’re going to play it off like “Mega Evolution is the coolest thing ever!” blah blah blah we’ve seen this before where the generational gimmicks get shoved down our throats. What concerns me more about this is…
I know this is (probably) a joke making fun of them, and I’m sort of joking in that first section, but there is a part of me that’s wondering if they’re secretly in Panic Mode right now. I feel like their advertisement team knows about the fact that they’ve announced only Kanto Megas so far so it’s possible they’re setting this up as an intentional red herring (that is, maybe they’re trying to gaslight people who haven’t seen the leaks into thinking we’re getting a Mega Machamp), but after already going basically all of 2024 with no information on the game and 2025 quite frankly being all over the place for this franchise, I don’t want to too quickly assume they’re hitting the Panic button with what could turn into weekly reveals but it’s starting to feel that way to me.
or they’re just doing what every other company is doing right now and making sure they don’t post or release anything the week silksong comes out lol
I do not think they're in panic mode at all and that they really do just want to do more reveals closer to release.
The tease here is likely done to make you wonder which one, or both, might get a mega but that's likely entirely unrelated to them already revealing gen 1 megas before this.
Especially if it has a silly video production associated with it. This was just the plan from the start.
You also REALLY overestimate (see: internet echo chambers) how many people care they're gen 1 pokemon.
In any (online) place where i've been in last days that remotely cares for pokemon, be it discord, twitch chat or reddit, I've ran into lot of people who people have shared opinions, both positive or negative, over Victreebel and Dragonite, but not a single time I've heard someone mention "omg it's two gen 1 pokemon again".
Nobody really cares that it's gen 1 pokemon outside of the echo chambers. In fact nobody even cares who the pokemon are as long as they're getting more megas lol.
You also REALLY overestimate (see: internet echo chambers) how many people care they're gen 1 pokemon.
In any (online) place where i've been in last days that remotely cares for pokemon, be it discord, twitch chat or reddit, I've ran into lot of people who people have shared opinions, both positive or negative, over Victreebel and Dragonite, but not a single time I've heard someone mention "omg it's two gen 1 pokemon again".
Nobody really cares that it's gen 1 pokemon outside of the echo chambers. In fact nobody even cares who the pokemon are as long as they're getting more megas lol.
In my defense, it’s not really the number of people that “hate Gen 1” that I was focusing on. That’s how I was rationalizing that in my head, anyway. I was looking at this more from a “pattern recognition” standpoint. On a greater scale of, well, the world, not just online social media and forums and the like, I feel like the reception for these first two Megas is slightly increasing overall relative to their Day 1 impressions we see on social platforms. People in these ‘echo chambers’ are going to be the ones pointing out the pattern, should they not try and rely on the leaks, and historically in mathematics, three is the number of something you need for the something in question to be recognized as a pattern in the first place.
In my defense, it’s not really the number of people that “hate Gen 1” that I was focusing on. That’s how I was rationalizing that in my head, anyway. I was looking at this more from a “pattern recognition” standpoint. On a greater scale of, well, the world, not just online social media and forums and the like, I feel like the reception for these first two Megas is slightly increasing overall relative to their Day 1 impressions we see on social platforms. People in these ‘echo chambers’ are going to be the ones pointing out the pattern, should they not try and rely on the leaks, and historically in mathematics, three is the number of something you need for the something in question to be recognized as a pattern in the first place.
I'll give a small tip: whenever you look at marketing/advertising, outside of weird scenarios like scandals and stuff like that, all of those are usually pre-planned weeks if not months ahead of time.
Expecially when it comes to the "pokemon machine" that has a lot of moving parts like anime cutscenes, TV advertisements, nintendo directs etc.
There's no "panic" in marketing. It's all calculated based on what they expect will hype people at a certain given time will enjoy.
(And when it comes to big companies like Nintendo, they know what they're doing, they know it far too well sadly. There's reasons for which their games sell so well despite the lack of quality).
