Pokémon Presents - Pokémon Day 2025 - Pokemon ZA Info & Pokemon Champions Announced

[Hugin]

The thing about Power Creep is that there's 4 options when something new is introduced to a game:
It's outright better than whatever came before. It replaces whatever came before in all cases.
It's outright worse than whatever came before. It is never used.
It's completely identical to whatever came before. This greatly annoys people.
It's situationally better, situationally worse than whatever came before. This is the ideal and is STILL POWER CREEP. Stall players will recognize this problem the best. If there's more stuff that's all roughly the same power level, then people will use the new stuff when new stuff is more powerful and the old stuff when old stuff is more powerful, raising the average power level even when everything is perfectly balanced.

So power creep is essentially inevitable. Now, there are fixes. TCGs and similar often rotate out old stuff, meaning that balance only has to account for new things. Rule changes and bans can reduce the power level overall even as new toys raise it. And an increased power level can also just be fine and interesting if it's handled well. I think part of the issue is that no one expects Pokemon to handle any of this well.

One of the questions I think really matters is, what SHOULD VGC look like? If they sat down and planned it out, how many team archetypes would be viable? How many turns should a match last? How many different mons should make the top 8 of a local tournament? Worlds? How long should training a viable team take? I'm not convinced Gamefreak has any idea. And if they don't know that, how can they make decisions about rulesets/balance that will lead to what they consider a "good tournament"?

 

[Avira]

One of the questions I think really matters is, what SHOULD VGC look like? If they sat down and planned it out, how many team archetypes would be viable? How many turns should a match last? How many different mons should make the top 8 of a local tournament? Worlds? How long should training a viable team take? I'm not convinced Gamefreak has any idea. And if they don't know that, how can they make decisions about rulesets/balance that will lead to what they consider a "good tournament"?

You hit the nail on the head. And that's exactly why VGC is clusterfuck of a format with extreme balancing issues with the only real rules being what mons are involved for any given regulation. Nonsensical shit like Item Clause shows Gamefreak has no idea what is good for balance considering being able to freely use the item you want has never been a negative competitively and only makes teambuilding more diverse.

 

[RocketSurgery]

Everybody complains about power creep until gen 7 introduces a dex full of slow mons that all have either a signature move or ability to set them apart, and then suddenly the power hasn't been crept enough. Everything since has been punishment for the community's failure to appreciate the best generation of mons!! :P

 

[Bakugames]

it IS funny to see how much people complain about power creep AND about random mons being weak as hell. we kinda need those mons to be weak as hell if we want to make this trainwreck go even slower

 

[DrPumpkinz]

You hit the nail on the head. And that's exactly why VGC is clusterfuck of a format with extreme balancing issues with the only real rules being what mons are involved for any given regulation. Nonsensical shit like Item Clause shows Gamefreak has no idea what is good for balance considering being able to freely use the item you want has never been a negative competitively and only makes teambuilding more diverse.

I don't think I want to see what VGC would look like if you could have six Focus Sashes.

 

[Mario With Lasers]

I mean, we can all agree that they went a bit too far with Gen 9's power level, right

 

[Avira]

I mean, we can all agree that they went a bit too far with Gen 9's power level, right

It'll probably be even worse in Gen 10 with Megas, Tera, and whatever the Gen 10 gimmick is. With it being the 30th anniversary and the 10th generation, Gamefreak is going to ensure its a celebratory work and go with off the charts powercreep in making as many Pokemon strong as possible. We've never had 3 battle gimmicks available in a single generation, not to mention all the high BST Gen 10 mons with signature moves and/or signature Abilities and min-maxed BST distribution.

If people thought Gen 9 was an Ubers-lite format, wait until they see what Gen 10 has in store for us with 3 powerful gimmicks and Gen 10 OU likely having the highest average BST of any current gen OU up until now.

 

[CynicalGiant]

I hope the DLC adds Mega Incineroar

 

[Karxrida]

It'll probably be even worse in Gen 10 with Megas, Tera, and whatever the Gen 10 gimmick is. With it being the 30th anniversary and the 10th generation, Gamefreak is going to ensure its a celebratory work and go with off the charts powercreep in making as many Pokemon strong as possible. We've never had 3 battle gimmicks available in a single generation, not to mention all the high BST Gen 10 mons with signature moves and/or signature Abilities and min-maxed BST distribution.

If people thought Gen 9 was an Ubers-lite format, wait until they see what Gen 10 has in store for us with 3 powerful gimmicks, and Gen 10 OU likely having the highest average BST of any current gen OU up until now.

I'm actually wondering if we'll even get a new gimmick.

Considering the reintroduction of Megas, retention of Tera, and imminent return of Z-Moves and Dynamax, there's a decent chance Game Freak could treat this as an all-stars generation. Just bring everything back! Everyone is here! Great way to celebrate a 30th anniversary (no sarcasm intended).

I hope the DLC adds Mega Incineroar

Its ability makes you auto win if you're in a VGC match and your opponent is Wolfey.

 

[Yung Dramps]

best case scenario is hyperspace lumiose being something at least adjacent to this

 

[Worldie]

You hit the nail on the head. And that's exactly why VGC is clusterfuck of a format with extreme balancing issues with the only real rules being what mons are involved for any given regulation. Nonsensical shit like Item Clause shows Gamefreak has no idea what is good for balance considering being able to freely use the item you want has never been a negative competitively and only makes teambuilding more diverse.

I heavily disagree with this take.

They have a pretty clear view of what VGC should look like, and it's a fast paced metagame with explosive turns.

The presence of high powered swing moves and high RNG value has been a thing for last few gens, and it got increasingly prevalent over time.
They want matches to be "spectacular to look at". To have big "OOOOH" moments.

They also clearly don't want a specific entity to be dominant for more than a generation, which is clear by their decision of "what" they nerf and what they don't. You can for example see how they nerfed Zacian but not Urshifu, as Urshifu had very little usage in gen 8 whereas Zacian was everywhere and gamewarping.

It's also clear they want players to put "some" effort in training the team but not that much anymore. Both gen 8 and 9 introduced massive QoL aimed at making viable competitive teams, in gen 9 outside of legendaries it takes the grand total of *five minutes* to make a randomly caught wild pokemon VGC ready.

Saying "they have no idea" would imply inconsistence and constant change in phylosophy. I don't see this at all, they've been always moving toward the same goal. The formats themselves have seen basically no change at all for years, and while they spice up the allowed pokemon now to get some variety, the base rules have *always* been the same since gen 5.
Whenever *that goal* is good or not, sure that's a lot up to debate, but there's no inconsistency at all. The path they take is clear.

(I'd be personally fine with the high powered metagame but they REALLY need to curb the RNG imo, I've seen too many matches swung by a crit, status or... landing 4 fucking Fissures in a row last round LOL, sure it's an ok design for single player games but when there's money on the line, that should really go.)

 

[R_N]

Every generation they bring in new explosive beat sticks, new (or changed) explosive moves, occasionally nerf more extreme stalling tactics (sharper timers, fewer recovery), then ear mark a few support Pokemon, then introduce format changes to introduce more even beatier beat sticks. While they do occasionally nerf offense (lowering special moves, didn't like the particulars of galewings & parental bond, zacian, stuff like that), it's usually not to an extreme and still points to what they want you to do instead. It can be a mess sometimes (& honestly they might want to consider some day just tweaking things mid generation with the DLC/secondary games...) but I think they absolutely do know what they want their competitive to be. It's not very subtle!

 

[Sulfurian]

Everybody complains about power creep until gen 7 introduces a dex full of slow mons that all have either a signature move or ability to set them apart, and then suddenly the power hasn't been crept enough. Everything since has been punishment for the community's failure to appreciate the best generation of mons!! :P

Tapu says hi

 

[Eriorguez]

Went through FSG's video on Gen III comp, and, yeah, Focus Punch being a very high risk with great reward move in that gen, versus widespread Close Combat afterwards (which is a move 80% as powerful as Focus Punch, but can be used repeatedly AND pairs very well with Choice items and Life Orb), is quite on point about how power creep went.

Hell, looking at Fighting, it was useless offensively in the first gen with Submission being the one move (then lol pre-Gen III Low Kick, and lol Hitmonlee), then Gen II had Dynamic Punch thrown around for Snorlax and Tyranitar (and a few lucky 'mons had Cross Chop, which is Fighting Stone Edge), and then Gen III had Brick Break as the widespread coverage move, and Focus Punch as the high powered but risky move. And Superpower as a REGI SIGNATURE MOVE, which Nidoqueen got in FRLG randomly. Gen IV? Close Combat galore, Superpower as coverage by Platinum, and even Fighting type Thunder as the sole special coverage.

Most high powered moves being around 80 base power was good enough, but nowadays 120 may as well be the minimum.

 

[Maxicheese]

I am the only one who wants a mega Morpeko? If the first DLC pack is about clone pikachu who has a ega he is probably the one who interest me the most with his broken electric signature move.

 

[Samtendo09]

(I'd be personally fine with the high powered metagame but they REALLY need to curb the RNG imo, I've seen too many matches swung by a crit, status or... landing 4 fucking Fissures in a row last round LOL, sure it's an ok design for single player games but when there's money on the line, that should really go.)

Yeah, as power-creep is one thing I don’t always mind, especially if creativity is involved, but the RNG creep (with what we’ve seen with Dire Claws and what Triple Arrows could have done if Hisuian Decidueye isn’t slow) is another possbility that can be far deadlier for competitive if not kept in check.

Having some RNG is fine to prevent matches from being deterministic, but when strong RNG-locked mechanics like chance of Burn / Paralysis / stat decreased / Flinching / FREEZING on foe that goes as far as impacting matches more than the player’s own decisions making, that can go out of control fast and can even be synonymous as gambling, even if laws doesn’t consider that as such.

I dread RNG creep on Gen 10 far more than I dread power creep by virtue of making both in-game far more RNG heavy than it already is and making competitive far too un-deterministic to the point of scaring away new players and even veterans.

 

[RoyalDispenser]

my guess is standard pokemon battling is out of the mainline games outside of champions for good and each follow up title is going to be closer to the legends games than SV. If you want to have standard battling you gotta go to champions with your pokemon. Probably half the reasoning for having fixed IVs/EV editting in champions is due to those systems being axed.

Inb4 the gen 10 gimmick is just pokemon snap to stun turns.

 

[AquaticPanic]

Personally i am a bit skeptical of the idea of Champions meaning traditional battles are gonna be completely out of mainline titles. Mostly because if they're gonna have Gen 10 with a different battle style, what's even the point of Legends being their own separate series?

Granted it is hard to tell with a sample size of 2, but the fact Legends have a different battle system feels to me like its more or less the point of why these are specifically "Pokemon: Legends" and not just Pokémon Alpha / Pokémon Z; if that makes sense. If both Legends and Gen 10 have experimental battle styles then it becomes a lot harder to justify Legends being a thing at all

Not to mention VGC is still their official format. It would be really akward to introduce dozens of mons in a non-traditional battle system and then have to adapt all of that specifically for Champions. It worked decently fine with PLA bc that has just over 20 mons. I can't see them doing that for 100+ mons, and then also have to do the same with nee Moves, Items and Abilities while also balancing both simultaneously for whatever new supposed system we have and VGC

 

[Karxrida]

I think the simplest explanation is that TPCi finally listened to complaints about how time consuming it is to prep teams for competitive, so they finally bit the bullet to make a battle sim. The existence of said sim will also have little to no effect on the direction of the core series games, cause I seriously doubt Game Freak would completely throw out the traditional formula that makes easy money.

Twist it to keep things fresh? Probably. But completely ditching it is a good way to alienate the fans.

Also, having a long term sim with presumed dedicated maintenance staff means you don't have to worry about the potential game crashes that apparently plagued SV during official events.

 

[CynicalGiant]

The existence of said sim will also have little to no effect on the direction of the core series games, cause I seriously doubt Game Freak would completely throw out the traditional formula that makes easy money.

yeah the legends titles would need to sell more than the main series titles for them to even consider it.

there's always discussion about them "finally ditching turn based battles" and the legends series just increased the volume of it, but Scarlet/Violet and Sword/Shield both sold really really well

from the official japanese nintendo website

Not to mention VGC is still their official format. It would be really akward to introduce dozens of mons in a non-traditional battle system and then have to adapt all of that specifically for Champions.

honestly if gen 10 has any big series shifting twists to it beyond the usual new gimmick(s), they might finally bite the bullet and make the single player campaign predominately if not entirely doubles battles

 

[Mad Ram]

yeah the legends titles would need to sell more than the main series titles for them to even consider it.

there's always discussion about them "finally ditching turn based battles" and the legends series just increased the volume of it, but Scarlet/Violet and Sword/Shield both sold really really well

from the official japanese nintendo website

View attachment 772743

honestly if gen 10 has any big series shifting twists to it beyond the usual new gimmick(s), they might finally bite the bullet and make the single player campaign predominately if not entirely doubles battles

Sometimes I forget how the Switch main series titles are, for all the complaints online, some of the highest selling games in the franchise. Guess that goes to show how little internet criticism matches real life.

 

[Worldie]

I'll be honest I have no idea how several of you decide that since Champions is coming out, suddently the main series entries will abandon the traditional Pokemon combat system.

What kind of weird mental gymnastic did you do there? It was never implied anywhere and there's no logical reason for them to do so.

If anything it's *more* of a reason to keep the traditional combat system. The main series games first and foremost act as introduction to both a generation and the franchise itself (weekly reminder that Pokemon is, at core, a series for children). They also serve the purpose to give a idea to potential future PvP players of how the game works and teach them the basics.
Thus maintaining the same combat system is in fact ... obvious?

 

[Perriechu]

I'll be honest I have no idea how several of you decide that since Champions is coming out, suddently the main series entries will abandon the traditional Pokemon combat system.

What kind of weird mental gymnastic did you do there? It was never implied anywhere and there's no logical reason for them to do so.

If anything it's *more* of a reason to keep the traditional combat system. The main series games first and foremost act as introduction to both a generation and the franchise itself (weekly reminder that Pokemon is, at core, a series for children). They also serve the purpose to give a idea to potential future PvP players of how the game works and teach them the basics.
Thus maintaining the same combat system is in fact ... obvious?

I think that was a common assumption though? I don’t think it requires huge mental gymnastics.

Pokémon’s main critique that has plagued it for a good while is that its battle system is quite stale and lacks innovation. But they need to keep it that way because of VGC. So they bring in Champions to keep that part alive whilst allowing the main series to reconfigure its battle system. I don’t think that’s a huge leap to make for people.

I personally don’t think Gen X will be incredibly different but I do think there will be some differences in its battle system.

Legends was a good way of mitigating that, but I always saw Legends more of a series to pay homage to their world building and to replace standard remakes. Whereas the generational games were meant to push the brand forward with new characters and more dynamic storytelling without having to constantly reference older established characters. (IMO)

I alsoooo think people underestimate how much the noise from SV’s issues could change things tbh. I don’t think it’s completely outside the realm of possibility for Gen X to be something hugely different to everything we’ve had so far. (even if I don’t think that’s what it’ll be)

Nintendo consistently release some of the most critically acclaimed games with a seemingly good amount of effort put into their games, I can’t imagine they liked the fact that Pokémon games are somewhat of a stain on their record throughout the Switch’s lifespan, to the point where an acknowledgment was made about the issues.

Yes I’m aware that Nintendo don’t develop the games, but I just don’t see them ignoring the issue completely. Like yeah Pokémon games make a load of money but I just can’t see them being happy with it.

I don’t understand the argument of “it’ll teach them the basics” because Champions can just do that.. and it’s an app.. that’s mostly for free? And will def have tutorials. Nothing about the main series’ battle system needs to stay because Champions can just do everything in a much easier accessible way.

Realised I wrote a lot here lol buteither way I don’t think it’s such a stretch to think Gen X will be different (from minor to major changes to what we know) because Champions will exist.

 

[Worldie]

Pokémon’s main critique that has plagued it for a good while

I'll stop you right here.

Where exactly have you read children complain about the combat system? The only people who "complain" about it are the VGC players. (Reasonably, but that's beside the point).

The VGC players are still a pretty small minority of the actual playerbase (and the "serious" vgc players even smaller).

I'll believe you when I read complaints about children or parents about pokemon gameplay being weird. Not when redditor #1523123 says he rather have a different combat system.

Hence yes, it's a huge stretch to think that it'll be different because 1% of the playerbase who, as sales prove, doesn't count, thinks it should.
Because if it was up to reddit, smogon and the other 3 people who complain, then gen 8 and 9 would have sold 0 copies.

 

[fiish]

Where exactly have you read children complain about the combat system? The only people who "complain" about it are the VGC players.

I don't think the people who complain about Pokemon's combat system are the ones who are flying out to different cities in order to interact with Pokemon's combat system.