I find it really funny that the Emerald Frontier is less grindy than the postgames in the next few generations purely by accident. It hast a fast, repeatable, and easy way to get more vitamins, rare candies and TMs in the Tower lobby, it just happens to be obviously a glitch. It took until around gen 6-7 for official QoL to catch up to that standard.
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Unpopular opinions
- Thread starter antemortem
- Start date
I actually think there's quite the difference in something that is forced on you and something you can choose to engage with to stretch yourself. Hence why I made the comparison to the Rogue Mega Rush(something I actually highly approve of, its a cool ultimate challenge!) rather than the structure of the DLC as a whole.
it really doesn't help that hyperspace is extremely buggy either(in the way that actively hinders your experience due to the time limits), mind you.
Chances are, a lot of the people who want the battle frontier likely did play it.
If they didn’t, then odds are they either didn’t care for it to begin with because it’s not what it appeals to them, or weren’t the kind of person who would be in subreddits and forums like this. Only a fraction of players do that.
Plus there’s more going on with the postgames beyond the Battle Frontiers ans well as the differences between an optional grind for the fun of it, and a required grind to even play a DLCs.
Here's actually a hot take (not mine) I found on a Metacritic review of HGSS:
HGSS is the only bad mainline game. (I do not agree with this)
"Its a BAD pokemon game, not only that, but the only pokemon game that is bad, all others are at least ok. But this one is slow, bland, not inovative and they manage to make the few minigames weird and unplayable. Its also for the other game's looks what polar express is to reality, this ugliness makes the game even more baring than it adding nothing did. I saw some people praising it in the past but every time I looked up turned out to be some teenager who grew up when this one was new, in other words: if nostalgia and vanity over your own childhood are the only reasons you play a game, go for it but if you want a good game, play Firered, or really any other pokemon game."-auranaqua on Metacritic
HGSS is the only bad mainline game. (I do not agree with this)
"Its a BAD pokemon game, not only that, but the only pokemon game that is bad, all others are at least ok. But this one is slow, bland, not inovative and they manage to make the few minigames weird and unplayable. Its also for the other game's looks what polar express is to reality, this ugliness makes the game even more baring than it adding nothing did. I saw some people praising it in the past but every time I looked up turned out to be some teenager who grew up when this one was new, in other words: if nostalgia and vanity over your own childhood are the only reasons you play a game, go for it but if you want a good game, play Firered, or really any other pokemon game."-auranaqua on Metacritic
My opinion on HGSS is one of those things that make me feel extremely out-of-step with the popular fandom sentiment. While I’d never go so far as to call it a “bad” game, and while I can easily see the reasons why people adore it, I feel like there is no other main series game whose priorities are as far away from my own as HGSS’s:
- I’ve never been interested in stat-managing side modes like Contests (so the Pokéathlon doesn’t appeal to me even though the minigames are fun)
- I’ve never been able to bring myself to bother with competitive team building prior to Gen 6 (so no Battle Frontier for me)
- I don’t enjoy time gates (waiting 3 weeks to roll a Rotom special scan in Z-A was enough to make me crash out; you think I can handle 70-100 days for Riolu or Gible or Bagon?)
- I think postgame Kanto was a nice idea for its time but feel like it’s pretty obvious that they never did something like it again because it doesn’t really work in practice (so bringing it back with only the restored dungeons and absolutely no change to the wacky-ass level plateau just baffles me)
- I don’t care about “feeling like a kid again” or having my nostalgia exhumed and reanimated; with video game remakes I’m always a lot more interested in what’s changed or been put into new contexts (and while it’s not as if HGSS have nothing along those lines, I think GF clearly wanted to keep the core experience very faithful)
As such, every time I try to revisit HGSS, I find myself petering out somewhere around Goldenrod.
I think it makes sense that Mega Dimension might be more problematic for someone, as it’s very much built on the principle of “If you liked Z-A for its game design and mechanics, you’ll probably like even more of that,” whereas games like Emerald, Platinum and HGSS offer a greater range of diverse experiences despite also being grindy in certain areas (and I’d argue even grindier than Z-A in a lot of ways, just due to the cumulative effect of older mechanics).
To put it another way, I think it’s fair to say that a lot of people might not actually seek “the full experience” with a game like HGSS, and will just gravitate toward the parts that interest them. But “the full experience” of Mega Dimension is almost entirely focused on being a roguelite mode, so it’s banking a lot on the player enjoying that specific offering.
The Battle Frontier in Gens 3 and 4 didn't gate off other aspects of the post game until you did a grind for them. Also you didn't NEED (as in, there was no alternative/wait option as the 3rd Versions that implemented them consisted of) to pay $30 on top of the retail price to play said content
Also, those are the aspects that were present in original games and excluded from their remakes in the case of Gen 3 (Gen shaved a lot of other features too). Imagine that, people criticize the absence of a removed feature when comparing a remake to its original, as opposed to a feature both versions have in common or something.
People often deride Pokemon fans for seeing patterns where there are none. I'd like to add "Pokemon fans actually know the context of their argument" challenge to the stereotype list.
I saw someone online this morning say they don’t think classic Pokémon games wouldn’t do well on the Switch/Switch 2 because people have become desensitized to how tedious grinding, HMs, and other stuff was back in the day and the more I think about it, the more I think he has a really good point. He was saying in this TikTok video that younger players likely won’t be interested in that kind of game, and older players might reconsider the quality of some of those games when the nostalgia glasses get to come off.
I'm fully aware that the Battle Frontier didn't gate off other aspects of the post game and that you didn't *need* to engage with it. That wasn't the point I was making. The point I was making is that very often when people talk about gens 3 and 4 being the best generations, the Battle Frontier is the main thing people talk about, which highlights the hypocrisy of the original image, that of people complaining about Mega Dimension being super grindy while also doting on Emerald, Platinum, and HGSS.
Though looking at it now, there's probably not actually that much overlap between those two groups. I do believe I've been goomba'd.
If only the Gen 3 postgame had other aspects
I doubt that this is a concern, as I think GF would know that these would be a relatively niche interest, and it doesn’t seem to have been a problem for the 3DS Virtual Console releases. Fundamentally, anyone going back to a game from 15+ years ago knows what they’re in for; if that were an issue for people, services like the NSO Classics wouldn’t even exist. No one’s going back to 1986 Zelda on the Switch and not expecting to contend with a more limited kind of game design, and I doubt anyone playing Pokémon Ruby in 2025 would either.
Good re-releases of old games also tend to add some sort of QoL like being able to up the speed or enable cheats that can bypass or stymie the issues of older game design. NSO Classics have save states and rewind, which doesn't fix every problem in Pokémon in particular but is good for other, more action-packed games at least (especially those on NES).
Bro Shiny Hunting is about to go crazy if these come to NSO
I've mentioned that I'm replaying Platinum right now, for the first time in a decade, and it's kind of been the opposite for me lol. Really recemented it as my favourite game in the series, in spite and frankly even in part due to the friction. Definitely down to what Pokemon games were meant to be shifting over time further and further away though; what people want from them nowadays is just different. Did you for instance realize that Z-A's Sewers/Lysandre Labs are the first real dungeons in the last decade of the series lol, and like, 1 of them is a decrepit but near exact recreation of the XY version.
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I feel like calling Gens 1-4 "unplayable" is a massive exaggeration, especially if you're emulating them (very likely) and thus have access to cheats anyway. Yes, they haven't aged the best, but they aren't like some older games such as various Ultima titles. Those are so convoluted by modern standards that regular actions such as checking your inventory are a massive chore.
If you have to use cheats to make your childhood game feel better to play, maybe the game wasn’t that well designed to begin with. I also wouldn’t call them unplayable but the pacing of the games being broken up by mandatory story and overworld obstacles and Gens 4 through 8 all being at 30 FPS only looks worse the older the franchise gets when the GBA could run Hoenn at native 60. I feel like it’s more accurate to say that the older games can and often are slower and tedious rather than actively unenjoyable, and some people like that style. I just don’t see those kinds of games being sustainable in 2026 thought the fact that it took Game Freak as long as they did to include some of their QoL changes is also pretty embarrassing when other similar games have had these changes for several years now.
battle facilities aside, isn't FRLG the first time there actually was any postgame in a Pokemon game in particular? I'm not really counting Kanto in GSC because that's just the final third/half of the game period lol.If only the Gen 3 postgame had other aspects
I doubt that this is a concern, as I think GF would know that these would be a relatively niche interest, and it doesn’t seem to have been a problem for the 3DS Virtual Console releases. Fundamentally, anyone going back to a game from 15+ years ago knows what they’re in for; if that were an issue for people, services like the NSO Classics wouldn’t even exist. No one’s going back to 1986 Zelda on the Switch and not expecting to contend with a more limited kind of game design, and I doubt anyone playing Pokémon Ruby in 2025 would either.
I don't even think this is necessarily true. I, personally, would be perfectly content to play any of those games vanilla. I'm just saying it's an option, especially if you want to try the Battle Frontier with a competent team.
Games that give too much freedom can also be aimless and easy to fall off of. Linearity is not bad, and story and overworld obstacles can be a feature, not a bug.
I'm not sure what point you're trying to make with framerate in the context of this topic. The way you're arguing it is in favor of Gens 1-3 if anything.
Considering how much Pokémon games go for on the secondhand market that is very much not true lol. If Game Freak put out a re-release collection with no QoL additions it would still be a guaranteed seller with a super high return on investment.
They just very much have their head up their asses for whatever reason. Someone at Game Freak probably legitimately thinks kids are too stupid to be trusted with a cutscene skip button but is also too adamant about their dumbass view to implement any of the various mitigations for accidental skips.
That or they somehow don't know how to program one.
Nah man (ma'am? mon?). The reason that kids today wouldn't be interested in playing Pokemon Red and Green as they were is almost entirely going to come down to the aesthetics, with a bit of stuff like "What do you mean I can't catch that cool monster because my box is full?!". If Game Freak did yet another Red/Green remake and did literally nothing else but bring things to modern graphics, sound, and those small QoL adjustments - no new types, move pools exactly the same as the old days, maybe even skipping the effort of a Move Deleter and just letting HM moves sit on a mon forever - some young kid born in COVID times getting it as their very first Pokemon game would have a blast.
Moving on to the extant gen 9 or upcoming 10 games would absolutely blow their minds, and since we're talking about young children I don't think any of the hordes of six year olds who are playing Z-A right now could move onto this hypothetical remake without (justifiably) thinking it very disappointing in comparison, but Pokemon Red and Green grabbed a generation of elementary schoolers once and it could do it again if only it didn't have to exist in the context of the improvements to both hardware and software in the past thirty years.
Honestly, they might not even need that much of a graphics touchup. My usual example for an old formula still holding up, Megaman, is having its rerelease collections selling well compared to the rest of the franchise and their graphics updates often consist of an ugly smoothing filter that a lot of people turn off. They mostly haven't had a flashy new mainline game to compete with, though. Of course, I'm also someone who got BDSP out of spite shortly after L:A's release so I don't exactly agree that the current games are mind-blowing improvements.
Every old JRPG is good and still feels good to play, if you're pure of heart
It's pretty ironic that Teraleak happened last year, with evidence of how Z-A was planned and developed after the base game was finished, and you still got plenty of people believing how it's cut content sold as DLC...and I cannot blame them one bit bc of how lacking it feels.
I'm not even going to compare this to other game standards, I'm just going to use the previous examples within the Pokemon series: SWSH and SV Expansion Passes, these two offered 2 NEW MAPS to explore each, plus more QOL features that facilitate the grinding (although this helps comp players more than anyone). What does Mega Dimensions offer? Just Hyperspace Lumiose, which consists of some reused areas from Lumiose City with a grey filter and a timer, and MORE Survey Points to grind for. In theory HS Lumiose is just an extra gameplay mode. For a series that thrives on the creativity of their worldbuilding and creature designs, and knowing how much potential there's still left to explore within Kalos, uhhh, that's it?
I'm not even going to compare this to other game standards, I'm just going to use the previous examples within the Pokemon series: SWSH and SV Expansion Passes, these two offered 2 NEW MAPS to explore each, plus more QOL features that facilitate the grinding (although this helps comp players more than anyone). What does Mega Dimensions offer? Just Hyperspace Lumiose, which consists of some reused areas from Lumiose City with a grey filter and a timer, and MORE Survey Points to grind for. In theory HS Lumiose is just an extra gameplay mode. For a series that thrives on the creativity of their worldbuilding and creature designs, and knowing how much potential there's still left to explore within Kalos, uhhh, that's it?
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Genuinely I wish they took the time to have Hyperspace Lumious be used to show off the other parts of Kalos we couldn’t reach.
Like having the desert Route 13 and the power plant, or the snow covered Route 17, or even have the Volcanion fight take place in a Hyperspace version of Southern Kalos.
But instead we got reused blank textures of Lumious city and a solid black room for Volcanion
Outside of Mega Man's derpy sprite his Classic games have also held up well visually. The back half of the NES set especially are all really good-looking games for the era due to how they were made late into the console's lifespan. Additionally, Classic has also aged much much better than many of its contemporaries. The games function on a very simple but solid gameplay loop that (usually) doesn't get overly cumbersome or obtuse. You do still have some of-the-times difficulty and a couple dumb bosses like the Boobeam Trap in Mega Man 2, but that's the minority of cases and still possible to mitigate with rewind and save states.
Red and Blue, meanwhile, has admittedly very jank Pokémon sprites even considering Gen 1 was on the original Game Boy with its basic visuals. Yellow is much better with all the redrawn and colored front sprites but shares the back ones.
when people say these things they are often just projecting their own shifted preferences onto the public as a form of wishcasting
for better or worse, tedious grinding is on the up and up nowadays given the success of f2p and gacha games lol
honestly refreshing to go play games from an era where the game design was more actively hostile to the player
yeah I honestly think a collection of the old games on a single cart even if its literally just emulated ports would rival the sales of a mainline game, lol
the reason nintendo adjacent companies don't sell older games as much as they logically should isn't because they think the games won't sell it is because for some reason there's weird views of older games going on over there.
150% bullshit coping. Pokemon Crystal was consistently the best-selling 3DS Virtual Console game week by week right to the moment the service shut down.
I think you guys are severely underestimating how much mileage young people can get out old media generally considered janky and dated by modern standards. Just look at all the clips and parodies you see posted online of things like Speed Racer and G1 Transformers. It's part of the charm, they love this stuff!
Either way, I cannot abide by defenses like this. I give the Pokemon developer triumvirate far more benefit of the doubt than most but on the issue of the lack of old game ports I turn into a fire-breathing Nintendoomer. It's legitimately pathetic and unacceptable, even "but muh Home capability" doesn't work anymore as an excuse given they had the utter gall to dump the Stadium duology on NSO raw