Resource SV ZU Viability Rankings

[I'm Tapu Bulu]

Not sure I'd agree with Lycanroc-Midnight being placed in the B ranks given how its regular much faster form exists. If you're scared of Stone Miss you can drop down to Loaded Dice Rock Blast with Swords Dance and it achieves much of what choiced midnight versions achieve while carrying priority to boot. And Midnight does not have what it takes to spam Knock Off and Sucker Punch repeatedly throughout a game, especially with a lot of competition around. C rank is alright maybe


On Orthworm, it honestly sucks ass but it also benefits from magneton and perrserker being fake steel types in many scenarios due to their bad special defense. Orthworm also has more utility to boot and that ironpress set. I would agree with dropping it to B though, this pokemon is fucking garbage and showcases the dearth of good steel types in the tier.


I have to disagree with Sableye rising - it's an obnoxious prankster mon, but it's very easy to snipe on the specially defensive side, so you can just pressure their special wall e.g. Lanturn/Snorlax with pivoting moves. Sneasel (a mon i think needs to rise) laughs in its face and turns it into setup fodder, and Toxicroak commonly carries Tera Dark and does the same, so you might find out you need a weezing or muk as well and congrats you've turned your team into fat balance.


Agree with its drop, floatzel leaving the tier made it a lot less functional.

Also i would be careful with nomming NFE mons because Knock Off is god mode this gen. Quilladin cannot reliably wall Venusaur or Basculin with knock + hazards in play, and Clefairy has an endless movepool but once it gets knocked it gets turned into death fodder. This is partially why I nommed Ursaring earlier - only has to avoid knock during the first turn, before guts gets activated.

Vivillon sounds interesting but it is very easy to kill even at +1 since there's a lot of priority in the tier. If anything Masquerain sounds more interesting, has intimidate and a higher SpA.

 

[plznostep]

probably short nom post since its so hard to rate Pokemon in this metagame, everything feels shit but good at the same time lol

UR to C
So uh this maybe bit of a stretch but I think this Pokemon has a niche in this tier in two team styles that aren't common by any means but give it a reason to be used. One is Trick Room. Being a setter that can revive many of your team mates can be quite clutch in some scenarios. But it's not mandatory by any means so I can see how you can overlook that. The other team style is Grassy Terrain since Rabsca has a few traits that make it a fair option to consider.

Rabsca has access to Recover + Calm Mind + Stored Power. This is actually rather unique in ZU. The only other people I would consider who can pull this off are Chimecho, Duosion, and Medicham. Out of these Pokemon, Rabsca has the highest defenses and offensive stats out of these Pokemon while its secondary typing gives it a pretty decent attacking type as well to hit Tera Dark Pokemon or hit the other Dark-types neutrally. It can be a pretty powerful combo since the other Stored Power users such as Mesprit have to rely on Draining Kiss or do not get good recovery options in Farigiraf. Even though Rabsca has a Stealth Rock weakness, a lot of Grassy Terrain teams already carry Hitmontop to support Oricorio, which also ends up supporting Rabsca so it's not too big of an issue.

I know you usually need replays to nom a UR Pokemon so take some random replays of me beating ladder players you don't actually care about.

Replays

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9zu-2507843398-0e4800nhng9cmbudbrsflgcma7dxiwwpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9zu-2507977662-v57qwsj90l3wma028gk5c5pdp6ngn94pw

B to A-/A
I feel Whiscash is a genuine Pokemon for once. Despite not actually being threatening, I feel like it threatens what it needs to most times in spinners like Sandslash and can chip Hitmontop on switch as well, so it ends up not actually being too passive since its able to get its hazards up without much trouble. Whiscash's stats do help a lot since it's very bulky unlike most other Ground-types in the tier and the typing lets it check a good majority of the tier as well.

C+ to B
Pyroar is really similar to the other Fire-types in the tier but is faster than Charizard and has Taunt + STAB Tera Blast that allows it to compress secondary STAB and coverage in one slot. So uh like put it up to their level please thanks.

uh okay byeeeeeeee

 

[lettuce]

im a sheep and its nom time

if we dont lose it, > A/A+
I really like having toxicroak around. It makes Basculin feel trivial since the basc guys haven't switched over to double edge. Idk the odds of us keeping croak but I'm hoping for the best. It's got ZU's favorite physical attacking profile of Fighting/Poison and then Knock Off and Sucker Punch to boot, and it has set diversity with special sets, different items, and other options like SD and EQ. It's a fantastic mon.

A -> A-
It's not Toxicroak. The speed tier is useful, but I've been punished for not outspeeding Whimsicott in this meta one too many times to say that you can get away with this as your fastest mon. The other fightings just offer more, with Croak's real ability and top's spin.

A- -> B+
I think that pass being the slowest scarfer makes it usually not worth considering, especially when Hitmontop and Toxicroak are better fightings. On top of that, it's probably the worst tera dark user of our fightings since you probably would want to be Tera Poison, since it doesn't get STAB on gunk shot. The only niche it has over the other fightings is U-Turn, and I don't think that can keep it in A-, especially alongside possible scarfers like Grafaiai and (it barely counts but) Braviary.

I think there's a solid argument to put both Pass and Sneasel in the same tier, since I weigh their pros over Toxicroak similarly, but if Sneasel is higher because it's more versatile I see it.

A -> A-
I'm trying really hard not to hate on Mowtom too hard, but it doesn't typically beat Basculin and I think that's a problem. You kinda need a grass type that's able to do that in my opinion (or Toxicroak). I haven't used Mowtom much since Venu dropped, which is mostly due to the Basc MU + being resisted by Venu. Now, the fact that I haven't used it is why I'm not sure if I'm underrating it or not, but I still don't think too highly of it.

B+ -> A
If you haven't lost to a Sableye or ran/clicked Tera Dark on something for the Prankster immunity, I don't know what you're doing unless you have never used a fighting type/physical attacker in this tier or smth. Sableye is a viable piece of the meta, and is way more legitimate than the rest of B+ and most of A-. Will-o-wisp makes it a viable Spinblocker since you force out Hitmontop, and if the top player tries to be smart and clickes Taxel on the switch, they don't 2HKO you unless they dodge wisp or use tera.

A -> A-
Now that spinblockers exist, Sandslash is a really mid spinner. It's best used as a Gunk Shot resist that can threaten a knock, since it doesn't beat the ghosts (Sableye/Spiritomb), although its not like they want to take a knock. You can't deny Sandslash's utility which is why I think it should only go down 1 tier, but it's better as a physical wall than a designated spinner. Also, I don't like

A- -> A
Its death was greatly exaggerated. Turns out, adding Venusaur to maybe 2 fairy resists doesn't suddenly make Fairy a bad type to spam.

keep them where they are (A/B+ respectively)
I think these 2 are fine where they are. If you're disappointed with Lanturn, you're probably not switching into a Zard/Jolt and slow pivoting out immediately into your revenge killer, or are doing it at 50% HP. At least in my experience with Lanturn, it's able to do this as many times as you need it to in a battle when you keep it healthy enough. As for Orthworm, it has it's MUs. The only downside with it is its fighting weakness. Steel has its problems as a typing in a tier where Fire/Water/Fighting/Dark/Electric are some of the best offensive types, but between its stats, weight making it a relatively safe Snorlax switch-in, ground immunity, and access to spikes, I think its benefits outweigh its awkwardness and justify it in B+.

I don't really have an opinion on most of the UR noms, outside of what I already said about Samu/Ursaring being ranked. Feel like most of them need more showings, but they're all mons I'd consider using outside of the red Lycanroc, who is just Mabo with a worse defensive typing, and Clefairy, since idk why you would want a poison weakness on your fight resist.

 

[risin_glory]

So had some productive discussions on discord and also read through opinions in this thread. I did nom midnight Lycan a bit too high lol.
As a weaker mabostiff I suppose C rank is fitting afterall.
Now as to why I ended up nomming it that high? I genuinely think if I have to choose an offensive rock type between daycan and night can I personally would always choose nightcan. Like I just don't see daycan doing much personally so I wanted to keep both forms close in VR.

So here's my updated nom:
B -> C+ (mabo rank)
UR -> C

The reason I want both lycan on VR vs just one is because functionally these mons couldn't be more different. It is a very similar yet reasonably different dynamic as heasel vs croak.

I second the noms lettuce and steppy made too

 

[Apagogie]

Since it’s nomination season, I think it’s worth doing some cleanup of the crowded C rank. It’s difficult to judge which Pokémon deserve to stay ranked as experiences with lower ranked mons can feel different. That said, the C tier feels big and includes Pokémon with different levels of viability in my eyes. Reintroducing a C− rank could help with this. With that in mind, here are my nominations:

Lurantis B− to C+
Crocalor C to C+

Poliwrath C+ to C−
Cacturne C to C−
Carbink C to C−
Combusken C to C−
Alolan Dugtrio C to C−
Komala C to C−
Sceptile C to C−
Piloswine C to C−

Scovillain C+ to Unranked
Victreebel C to Unranked

Lurantis feels underwhelming to use with Venusaur around and the introduction of Toxicroak to a lesser extent. It faces competition from other defoggers such as Braviary while non-defog sets feel like a very average bulky setup sweeper compared to more consistent options like Malamar or mons benefiting from the grassy seed. Lurantis feels at this point like a Tera hog Pokémon which was not the case previously. Overall, it feels more niche than a B rank.

Crocalor represents stall viability in the tier. It performs better than sand which is currently ranked C+ and also performs better than several Pokémon ranked above it so C+ feels reasonable.

With the introduction of a C− rank, many extremly barely viable Pokémon fit naturally there. Most of them are rarely if ever seen in practice and occupy mostly theoretical niches.

The two Pokémon proposed for unranking are either directly outclassed by Venusaur or became unviable after the Heat Rock ban which removed the conditions that previously justified their niche

 

[I'm Tapu Bulu]

My last nomination for 2025 here. I feel like Boots are like a 3rd option for this mon if you really can't afford hazard removal. At 75%, so after one round of SR damage, Sneasel@Eviolite has more survivability than 100% Sneasel with other items.
Life Orb gives an important boost to Triple Axel's power output, since you're on a mon that needs to run Jolly but can't outpace Whimsicott and don't want to rely on chip damage and the hazard game since Sneasel can't really take a hit anyway.

With that said, Sneasel deserves to rise to A or A+ for how threatening it is at +2, a wallbreaker and sweeper in one. Tera Ghost is my favourite tera to use on Sneasel because this allows it play mind games with Passimian and Hitmontop, Knock Off is god mode, and you can drop to Ice Spinner for still good damage if you're scared of misses. Definitely better than Passimian itself or Oricorio-F, and imo on par with or above its Hisuian counterpart, disregarding Toxicroak's presence.

 

[Oofhixd]

Very quick post-shifts noms

UR -> B-
Slightly worse thwackey. This thing was A+ when PU had thwackey, so i dont see why itd be unviable now.

NEW -> A
Back where it was. If not, its even slightly better imo with how bad the other grasses are rn. Braviary being gone again is nice for it aswell.

 

[Tuthur]

Very quick post-shifts noms

UR -> B-
Slightly worse thwackey. This thing was A+ when PU had thwackey, so i dont see why itd be unviable now.

NEW -> A
Back where it was. If not, its even slightly better imo with how bad the other grasses are rn. Braviary being gone again is nice for it aswell.

it's not even been one hour, please refrain from posting based only from theorymoning

 

[I'm Tapu Bulu]

Very quick post-shifts noms

UR -> B-
Slightly worse thwackey. This thing was A+ when PU had thwackey, so i dont see why itd be unviable now.

NEW -> A
Back where it was. If not, its even slightly better imo with how bad the other grasses are rn. Braviary being gone again is nice for it aswell.

Grookey feels like playing 5v6. Its evolution could, for better or for worse, use other items besides Eviolite (with TerrainExtender being the chief competition) and double as a wallbreaker if you needed it to, thanks to a decent base attack stat. Grookey is like using Dachsbun in Ubers because it has a good matchup against Koraidon...

Brute Bonnet I imagine will be good and a candidate for a top dog, but it is yet another grass-type returning to the tier. We already had so many of them during the Floatzel suspect and since then we've only gotten more. Which by the way, is more incentive for Sneasel rising on the VR.
Bonnet also does not appreciate the presence of Toxicroak in the tier, which makes me think the best tera options for itwill not necessarily be the ones it would prefer. Ghost and Poison sound good

 

[Tuthur]

Had been waiting for shifts to make these, and hopefully tier shifts wont impact them too much.

C+ -> A
We slept hard on this thing for some reason. The stats are really meh, but the typing and movepool are amazing. It's an an amazing check to all our fighters and Snorlax, but above all, it's the best Defog user in the tier. It can keep hazards off against all the common setters; Mesprit, Sandslash, Orthworm, Weezing, etc. The only kind common one it struggles with is Camerupt, which is not that common in the first place. Drifblim is a staple of balance teams, which are now more than viable with Venusaur coming back in the tier.

C+ -> A
Likewise, this thing was poorly judged, because Sandslash Spikes used to be so good. However, the Drifblim+Sandaconda balances #svnu2023 with a special wall last (Lanturn, Snorlax, Nacl, or Venu) have been poping. Super hard Pokémon to wear down if you don't have a strong special breaker, and Pokemon that beat it like Mowtom have been doing worse.

New -> S
Not much to say. It's pretty versatile with moveset options, is always threatening, and has great defensive utility.

A+ -> S
It was initally ranked A+ because fear of overhyping the new toy, but at the end of the day, the hype hasn't felt after several months. Defensive and offensive sets alike are easy to fit on teams and patch multiple holes.

: A- -> A or A+
With balance making a come-back, balance breakers got better.

A -> A-
Toxicroak and Venusaur makes it much akward to use, having to lock onto Psychic Fangs

B -> A-
Houndoom was always underrated on the vr, due to being a new trend last vote. It proved its viability on the long run, and it's one of the few Pokémon in the tier that has a positive match-up against all 3 Pokémon I argue for S-rank, outspeeding and threatening all 3 of them with super effective STAB move.

 

[I'm Tapu Bulu]

Had been waiting for shifts to make these, and hopefully tier shifts wont impact them too much.

C+ -> A
We slept hard on this thing for some reason. The stats are really meh, but the typing and movepool are amazing. It's an an amazing check to all our fighters and Snorlax, but above all, it's the best Defog user in the tier. It can keep hazards off against all the common setters; Mesprit, Sandslash, Orthworm, Weezing, etc. The only kind common one it struggles with is Camerupt, which is not that common in the first place. Drifblim is a staple of balance teams, which are now more than viable with Venusaur coming back in the tier.

C+ -> A
Likewise, this thing was poorly judged, because Sandslash Spikes used to be so good. However, the Drifblim+Sandaconda balances #svnu2023 with a special wall last (Lanturn, Snorlax, Nacl, or Venu) have been poping. Super hard Pokémon to wear down if you don't have a strong special breaker, and Pokemon that beat it like Mowtom have been doing worse.

I agree these structures are underrated, but I can't not notice how both Pokemon mentioned above are weak to a STAB of Brute Bonnet:
252+ Atk Black Glasses Brute Bonnet Crunch vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Drifblim: 428-506 (97 - 114.7%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Black Glasses Brute Bonnet Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Drifblim: 390-462 (77.3 - 91.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Brute Bonnet Seed Bomb vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sandaconda: 176-210 (50.5 - 60.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

The shroom coming back is something Drifblim and Sandconda absolutely don't appreciate. Bonnet will likely be a top dog in the tier, and its 4th move, as well as its item, are pretty interchangeable - so you can run sub or taunt to prevent them from spreading status or just coverage to hammer away at partners like Glastrier, Snorlax, or Magneton.

I believe A is too high for these Pokemon for now, especially for Sandaconda.

 

[risin_glory]

I love it when my blim answer is slower than it, physical attackers and can be burnt
Regardless I agree with purely the fact that drifblim nom is a bit high. I think B+ is fair ranking cuz it cannot always even switch into hitmontop's taxel making it a fake spinblock somewhat

252+ Atk Technician Hitmontop Triple Axel (120 BP) (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Drifblim: 440-522 (99.7 - 118.3%) -- 99.9% chance to OHKO


Now for bonnet with our removal not being completely reliable idk why u would drop hdb from bonnet unless u r plannIng to use it as a breaker with choice band or as a cleaner with booster energy.
It also has a considerable 4mss cuz u always want crunch/cc/sucker punch/synthesis. The only time I can see dropping synthesis for seed bomb is when u r running band or booster.
The reason I said no dropping cc is cuz u 2hko orthworm with it and is a good coverage vs mirror

I also want to say that unlike last time bonnet was here we should be running 252+ aka max speed now since over time meta has started adjusting in a way to run many walls and breakers at 220 and above speed making the max speed stat of 229 very relevant (e.g., still remaining faster than mesprit's uturn)

 

[I'm Tapu Bulu]

Okay, now I think I'm going to make the nomination for Brute Bonnet.

UR ---> A

Brute Bonnet @ Black Glasses
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Ghost / Poison
EVs: 208 HP / 252 Atk / 48 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Synthesis
- Close Combat
- Crunch
- Sucker Punch

The set above is the one I've used the most - enough speed to get the jump on base 60s, rest in HP and atk. Bonnet is the strongest dark-type in the tier and brings much needed balance in my opinion, with immense bulk and access to recovery and Sucker Punch.

Brute Bonnet can use more items than most Pokemon in the tier in my opinion - - which gives it quite a bit of flexibility. It's a feature of high-stated Pokemon (let me guess someone will tech a special set for this thing since 79 SpA is not terrible in ZU) to be able to use a variety of items and tera types in the tier.

Because of Bonnet's horrible weakness to U-turn, I'm hesitant of nominating it higher, especially since unlike last time Venusaur is also present in the tier and is generally better on the defensive side (absorbs toxic spikes, doesn't use contact moves, can poison mons and use leech seed etc) - for this reason I think Bonnet needs to prove itself for longer before eventually rising - but it's ultimately a paradox mon and even 55 base speed can be enough to dismantle balance structure teams like the drifblim+sanda core mentioned above. It even makes 100hp+ subs if you need it to.

Tera Ghost is used to prevent Passimian and Hitmontop from damaging it, but Poison does make sense to avoid being weak to knock.

 

[diegoyuhhi]

quick vr post without much thought, just some glaring stuff to me

rises

A- -> A+
this mon kinda broken ngl. basically nothing switches in safely into this thing and actually beats it 1v1, and a lot of times you're lucky if you can even just trade with it. this is also just talking about 3a + filler, which in my case is often roar to work as an anti cheese measure (sample set has sd but i think you're better off clicking buttons). investing this set in atk (seriously why is the sample set max speed) turns you into a trade machine like few others, and you can run minspeed to become a otr tomb check by underspeeding it in tr. recently there has also been an uptick of resttalk 2a and cursetalk sets, which abuse the fact that this mon is fucking impossible to get rid of quickly to either output damage over a longer period of time or setup and win the game. both of these sets and the former can run a trillion different teratypes and ev spreads, which further adds into the unpredictability. in my vr, this is s, but i think this mon HAS to be raised.

A- -> A+
idk why we voted this down tbf, it feels amazing in the current meta and i think it's overall the best scarfer. cc is a very good click into a lot of stuff, knock + uturn are amazing clicks to wear down checks, and eq/gunk/rock slide last can patch team specific weaknesses. there are a lot of endgames were scarf pass can just click. don't sleep on band either, a lot of ppl rely on helmet mesp to check mons like pass and seeing it get cleanly 2hkod by knock is very satisfying.

B -> A
what can i even say, cash just feels great to have on teams. double hazard access is fantastic, solid bulk + typing to check the likes of zard and jolt, and offensive sets with ice beam > one of the hazards can be good surprise tools to catch grasses off guard. just a mon with very good traits into the meta.

B -> A/A-
yes rocks is great, but man ironpress is so fucking busted at times. this mon is so good at coming in early on a lot of stuff, clicking salt cure and chipping the opponents down. then, in the endgame, with the correct pieces chipped. it can just id up and win with body press. offers everything you want from your rock type in checking lax and zard, while being immune to their respective statuses and having reliable recovery. hazards weakness is kinda rough tho ammitedly; when brav was here :sob: i loved the core of spdef defog brav + physdef rocks mesp + ironpress nacl, and that would've made nacl A tier worthy imo; now it's probably more of a A- pokemon with less consistent removal around.

B+ -> A-
spikestack is better than ever rn, and these mons are great tools for it (but not only). orth can be a soft check to basically anything physical (i like running helmet on mine, you don't have much staying power anyway and punishing physical hits is nice) while also helping vs stuff like venu and mesp. sableye is a great spinblocker and has a good typing into many of the meta's main physical attackers, and even tho we've been seeing some adaptation with many of them starting to run tera dark, this mon still has a very annoying prankster encore into everything else.

C+ -> A-
yeah yeah zard is better, but man does pyroar feel a lot more consistent to play in game. having a 100% accurate secondary stab is an amazing trait that zard can only dream of, and the speed tier letting it outpace other base 100s like zard itself and shaymin means that you don't have to rely on winning speed ties in 1 on 1 situations. taunt is also a very cool trait if played right.

C+ -> B
similar case to whiscash but you trade most of the bulk and double hazard access for being safer into mowtom and grasses in general (especially like whimsi), access to roar and more offensive prowess with a better offensive typing. roar 3a is my fav set if you can fit rocks on smth else, otherwise you gotta choose between rock move and roar, aka hitting zard or working as anti setup.

drops

A -> B+
this mon is soooo passive into everything. standard resttalk with volt scald still loses to subcm jolt and is now worse in general with venu in the tier. flip discharge is better but not being able to pivot into croak is very rough (some ppl even run tera ground croak which absolutely demolishes this mon). lefties protect sets with like twave or liqui to not lose to subcm jolt and oricorio (fun fact: you still lose to tera corio) still thud into the grasses and are now weak to hazards, and av offensive sets, while being more threatening and thudding into less, are very easy to chip down.

B -> C+
it's simply worse than the rest of B tier, i haven't seen it do anything in a good while, it's a dark type that doesn't even beat spiritomb. fits better with the mons in C+ imo.

B- -> C
it just feels fucking awful rn man, this mon thuds into almost every meta team composition in the tier, especially with venu around and stuff that deals with venu (fires, poisons, etc) being more prevalent than ever. idt even being a tera hog can save this guy.

would've nommed sand (hippo + probo) down cause it feels pretty bad rn but i noticed it's already in c+. sand might officially be dead guys.

 

[kriegueur]

it's time for my boy to go
B+ -> C

This mon rose out of UR back when we had basically no dark types and bonnet wasn't around, it has since the lost it's niche of clicking poltergeist into basically anything. People have gotten tired of getting cooked by spiritomb : Houndoom is on the rise, Mabo is doing better, Bonnet is now back, you get the point. I can't say trevenant is a big fan of Venusaur running around either. All this plus the fact that you can just replace trev by bonnet on any team is way enough to justify the drop of a mon whose main click has anti synergy with knock off. Looking at the mons in C I feel like it could fit fine in there so I didn't go UR (yet ? getting brav back would end this for real)

 

[I'm Tapu Bulu]

it's time for my boy to go
B+ -> C

This mon rose out of UR back when we had basically no dark types and bonnet wasn't around, it has since the lost it's niche of clicking poltergeist into basically anything. People have gotten tired of getting cooked by spiritomb : Houndoom is on the rise, Mabo is doing better, Bonnet is now back, you get the point. I can't say trevenant is a big fan of Venusaur running around either. All this plus the fact that you can just replace trev by bonnet on any team is way enough to justify the drop of a mon whose main click has anti synergy with knock off. Looking at the mons in C I feel like it could fit fine in there so I didn't go UR (yet ? getting brav back would end this for real)

Trevenant has seen better days, but C rank is harsh imo. It still has a strong 120 BP grass type STAB, so good luck trying to switch Mabostiff and Houndoom in, as well as priority. And unlike most Pokemon it has Rest and Natural Cure, so it can heal up and switch without needing to tech weird sets. As a Bonnet enjoyer I can't stand its U-turn weakness and it actually doesn't hit as hard as Trevenant does.

The thing about Trevenant is that ghost-types are really bad in this metagame, so its STAB Poltergeist continues to provide a lot of value, since Snorlax fears Wood Hammer and Drain Punch, same with Lanturn, Regirock gets 2hkoed etc.

Trevenant should drop, though. B- sounds more fitting for this guy.

 

[sinnabyss]

been playing the tier again and wanna share my own thoughts on the current VR

new to A-
Bonnet is pretty good in the current meta, but idt its on par with the A+ or A mons. It's typing is mostly horrendous, while ground, grass and dark resistance is nice, being weak to so many common attacks is very rough. The meta is already very well suited to handling it, most teams already have some sort of check without trying, and most offensive mons naturally resist sucker anyways. It's still really good as a breaker, but i think A- is a good place for it.

new to A
Toxicroak fits super well in ZU with its scary STABs, great abilities and good coverage. Knock lets it cripple most of its checks, like mesprit, sandslash and venusaur. Scarf sets are underrated, and special sets can get the jump on stuff. Relying on sucker to outspeed things is rough tho, and it really wans tera to break past tomb and sableye.


A- to A+
Whimsi feels super good in this meta, especially now with the rise of Sableye and bonnet dropping into the tier. Most Fairy resists can be worn down like orth and zard, and venu is not as much of a problem with psychic or u-turn to handle it. Prankster Encore is incredibly good to shut down setup and defensive mons aswell.

A- to A+
That bird that i hate. This mon broken as hell, both bulky and offensive sets can easily overwhelm even well-prepped teams. Lax seems like a good check, till it breaks out Tera ghost or fighting. Wanna revenge it with basc or jolt? oops, tera grass. Trying to encore it is risky as neither Sab or Whimsi wanna switch in on it. Guessing wrong once against this thing means you probably lose immediately. Honestly i want this thing gone, but if it stays, it definitely should move up.

B+ to A-
Sab is really good right now. Prankster encore shuts down setup, it dominates top tier mons like snorlax and hitmontop, and it spinblocks excellently. Clanking into darks is rough, but it's strengths are so unique and valuable rn that it deserves an A- imo.


:driftblim: C+ to B+
Defog good. With brav leaving (screw you uberfiend) Drift is left as the only good defogger left. It's admittedly good at its job, beating mesp, orth, and sandslash and foggin on them. It does kinda feel iffy outside of that tho, it kinda struggles to switch in on anything. Its alright for sure, but it kinda feels like a defog bot and nothing else at times.

B to A-
Spikestack is crazy good rn, and whiscash provides great role compression as a hazard setter, water type, and electric immune. It comes in on mons like zard and jolt and can just start spamming spikes. It also scares sandslash and can threaten driftblim with ice beam. No recovery and grass weakness is rough, but hazards are so good right now that it more than makes up for it.

A- to B-
Does anyone even use this mon? Farigiraf needs atleast 2 turns to get going, and really it struggles to find those turns. It's bulk is mediocre and it doesnt scare out enough mons to actually set up.

perhaps ill add more later idk

 

[I'm Tapu Bulu]

OK so here are some of my noms for 2026, kinda just comments on what we have so far though.

B+ ---> B / B-
We'll start off with a banger, since I know I'm going to swim against the tide here, but Sableye kinda sucks and if anything should go down. Sableye's stats are just awful and kinda relegate it to a niche mon. Prankster Encore loses a lot of its value once you realize you can just attack and often 2HKO it, especially on the special side. Throw in Recover having only 8 PP and Orthworm being a fake steel type in many scenarios and it honestly feels like Snorlax really is the one that carries this mon and many spike stack structures, so Sableye can be replaced by other ghost types (defensive Spiritomb comes to mind) or even something more offensive like Froslass who actually hits harder and can set up spikes for herself. By contrast, Sableye is probably the most overrated mon I've seen in a while. Its stats are just poor, I'm sorry, and Will-o-Wisp and Encore can only carry it so far.
Sableye doesn't appreciate the fall of Brute Bonnet to the metagame, either. Just spam Crunch until you get a defense drop and boom.

A- ---> A / A+
Agree. It's robust over the course of a game despite icicle crash missing a bit too often. Can run a plethora of sets, 3 atks+roar, SD, Swords Dance with Trick Room support, and does have a variety of items besides Boots, with stuff like Custap Berry/Loaded Dice, Choice Band, and Leftovers.

B+ ---> B-
Ghost types suck ass in this meta. Sableye is underwhelming, and so is this thing. Trevenant's best days are past it with Bonnet being here to ruin its day and Snorlax forcing huge chips on Wood Hammer. That being said, I do think it's a bit underexplored. Choice Band and Horn Leech sets have plenty of potential, especially since the tree also has access to Trick, and Rest+Natural Cure is a valuable combo in my eyes.

Finally, maybe a bit more off topic, but I kept bringing up Brute Bonnet when arguing against these new balance structures showing up. I don't know about you guys, but I have a very high opinion on Bonnet because it has pretty much everything besides speed and an allergy to U-turn. Stuff like Drifblim+Sanda and Orth+Sableye, should they prove themselves to be great going forward, might push Bonnet to A+ or even S tier in my eyes. This thing is an amazing pokemon. A- is certainly underselling it and it helps that U-turn's primary user is heavily threatened by Sucker Punch in the first place.

 

[lettuce]

Howdy, felt like adding to the ongoing discussion.

Keep around A-?
I feel like the competition around fighting types has gotten steep. IMO, the best 2 fightings are Hitmontop (spin + taxel) and Toxicroak (water immune + basically a dark type). Fitting Passimian means you aren't fitting one of those two guys on your team. I think A- is fine, since on one hand it is the slowest viable scarfer and doesn't outpace Beartic (436 bear and 426 pass), but on the other if you want the pivot, its better than Primeape. IMO its speed tier usually makes it barely worth considering on my builds since I don't want to be in a scenario where I need to outspeed something that a faster scarfer can but Pass can't, but I'm aware that my take severely undervalues this mon.

A -> A-/B+
With the fighting-type competition, I've felt that adding a Sneasel to my team adds less than adding a Toxicroak or a Hitmontop would. It doesn't help that Toxicroak can tech EQ to beat Sneasel-h. The speed is still nice though, and even though I think Pass is better than Sneasel I feel like B+ is too harsh.

A -> A+
This is an opinion not yet formed with the advent of Drifblim because the balloon can outspeed and wisp this guy, but that aside, there are so many games I've brought a top into and realized that I get 2-3 KOs on preview with the right clicks because spin and taxel are so free. He's very difficult to switch into, and since he can afford to run protective pads, it's also hard to punish its pseudo-stab taxel (thank you technician).

A -> A-
I feel like I have to defend Lanturn a lot when its brought up. Like sure, it has a bit of 4MSS and is by no means conventionally reliable, but there is not another mon that can switch into zard/Jolteon and generate momentum with any reliability. On the right team, a lanturn is invaluable. Now, Toxicroak makes its job harder. IMO flip turn + discharge was pretty optimized, but not being able to pivot on Croak makes that set worse, and I see it dropping but not out of the A-ranks. Like, whiscash is good but it does NOT replace Lanturn.

C+ -> UR
Now that we have croak, I want to unrank the worse option that is weak to Psychic, Fairy, Grass, Electric, and Flying, while also not resisting Poison or Fighting. Need I say more? Why would you use this mon defensively, and base 70 is a very unfortunate speed tier, underspeeding base 80s without investment and not beating jolt at +1 (as if you're scarfing this lol). I barely saw redeeming traits pre-croak, and all of them mostly boil down to it being a water type. I'll give it taxel resist, but until someone brings it for that reason I don't think it should be ranked.

B+ -> B-/B
It's definitely worse in this meta and currently rated too high, but Bonnet is not common enough to send it all the way to C. I think Polter is has more upside and is less likely to whiff than Medicham's STAB combo is to, and trev has a lot of tools outside of being a massive nuke.

-> A- or keep B+

Prankster Encore loses a lot of its value once you realize you can just attack and often 2HKO it, especially on the special side.

Saying Sableye is bad at taking special hits is like saying Lanturn is bad at checking Venusaur or Chansey is bad at checking Flamigo or some other physical fighting - it's not really supposed to. It isn't 2HKO'd by burned physical targets (and it's good at burning them), and when you build with Sableye you do so in a way where it doesn't ever have to take special attacks. I do agree that the frequency of dark types/tera dark hurts Sableye, and that all the weaknesses you mentioned do hold it back, but I think anything lower than B+ is too harsh since of the influence it has on these mons running tera dark.

UR -> C
They've popped up in tours. I don't have time to explain more than somewhat bullys lax and weakness policy.

And here are a bunch of noms to defensive helm mons that I've found less useful lately and can boil down to 'use mesp':

A -> B+/A-
I've given up on assuming Sandslash is beating any spinblocker. I only use it as a poison resistance that can KO the poisons nowadays.

C+ -> B+
I haven't seen enough out of Sandaconda to think it belongs in the A ranks or above Sandslash. It's criminally underrated right now, but that was because using conda meant asking yourself "why am I trading knock and spin for recovery on my ground type" and without Venu around I don't think it was ever worth the trade. Now, I think that it's equal with Sandslash at best, a sub-tier below at worst until I see a little more from it.

a/a- -> B+
I've found both of these to be less useful in this meta, despite checking poison-fightings. Weezing's biggest flaw is not being able to hit the mons it walls. It's best option to kill poison-fightings is Psybeam. 65bp Psybeam. That's ignoring wisp, to be fair to weezing, but you're still waiting for the mon you're checking to kill itself for the most part. I think flamethrower sets are legit, since yes I want to switch a special attacker not threatened by its stab into the physical wall with unreliable recovery, but even this innovation is less valuable than Drifblim IMO. Muk has to be running Physdef investment to not get 2hko'd by Hitmontop, and it's weak to croak EQ, and has somehow less reliable recovery than Weezing. Its two benefits are being knock resistant and able to do damage to poisons with Zen Headbutt, but they're not that big.


I more or less agree with everything else.

 

[diegoyuhhi]

one last nom:

UR -> C+
as a famous italian singer once said, "some loves never end, they take massive laps and then they come back". former king of zu, swalot was starting to be forgotten by many, apart from coming back to steal everyone's hearts during strength sap spam meta, but i think the mon still has some real value. first of all, being a poison type is very valuable in this meta, being resistent to a wide array of common moves. i think sticky hold is more valuable than liquid ooze rn, casually switching into pass/venu/whatever knock and holding onto your lefties is very nice. this mon might just look inferior to muk, but it has a couple traits that make it worth in specific team compositions: ironpress is a cool combo that can win games on its own; pain split is not the best recovery ever but it's at least recovery; twave is twave; and encore is a great way to disrupt slower setup mons like regirock or snorlax. knock off is in common with muk but it's still a great utility option. it can 2hko physdef sandslash with ice beam, or if you're crazy enough it could run sd too. anyway, this mon absolutely deserves to be ranked.

 

[NotDake]

Since apparently Sableye's viability is the hottest trending topic for whatever reason, I figure I'd share some thoughts before the VR update actually occurs.

Prankster Encore loses a lot of its value once you realize you can just attack and often 2HKO it, especially on the special side.

I feel like this statement comes from a lack of understanding of what Sab's whole shtick is. First of all, yeah, Sab has mediocre stats and will get 2HKOed by all physical breakers, and even some more utility based physical attackers like Htop, but that is not its job. This mon isn't really meant to pivot and take hits, but rather simply stopping your opponent from making progress. Thanks to slow pivots in your own team you get to click Encore and punish sweepers rather than coinflipping a 50/50 switching into set up move. And when it comes to spin blocking, Sab is unrivaled, being able to semi-consistently 1v1 all physical rapid spinners thanks to the fact that, despite getting 2HKOd by Htop, PRIORITY WILL-O IS OP. This is so relevant that players have adapted to run suboptimal Teras on their spinners just to be able to fight this mon. I know you are the Tera Ice Lum Berry Htop guy.

And yes, Sab crumbles to special attackers, but so what? That's no its job. The recent trend of specially oriented hazard removal mons like Cryo has been partially due to how dominating Sab spikestack truly is as a playstyle.

That being said,

Stay B+

A few weeks back I would've advocated for a Sableye rise, but as this team structure has become more popular, so are the teams that overprepare for the matchup. Players opting to go Cryogonal or Drifblim, two mons that beat Sableye consistently, as their hazard removal, the return of Bonnet, a mon that fits very easily into teams and is an unwinnable matchup for Sab, and just an overall increase of random Tera Darks to matchup fish the Sab player into a very disadvantageous position. Once the hype dies down a little bit I am sure this mon will rise back to consistency, but for now I think every team is way too prepared for Sab for it to be truly deserving of A or A-.

 

[I'm Tapu Bulu]

Since apparently Sableye's viability is the hottest trending topic for whatever reason, I figure I'd share some thoughts before the VR update actually occurs.


I feel like this statement comes from a lack of understanding of what Sab's whole shtick is. First of all, yeah, Sab has mediocre stats and will get 2HKOed by all physical breakers, and even some more utility based physical attackers like Htop, but that is not its job. This mon isn't really meant to pivot and take hits, but rather simply stopping your opponent from making progress. Thanks to slow pivots in your own team you get to click Encore and punish sweepers rather than coinflipping a 50/50 switching into set up move. And when it comes to spin blocking, Sab is unrivaled, being able to semi-consistently 1v1 all physical rapid spinners thanks to the fact that, despite getting 2HKOd by Htop, PRIORITY WILL-O IS OP. This is so relevant that players have adapted to run suboptimal Teras on their spinners just to be able to fight this mon. I know you are the Tera Ice Lum Berry Htop guy.

And yes, Sab crumbles to special attackers, but so what? That's no its job. The recent trend of specially oriented hazard removal mons like Cryo has been partially due to how dominating Sab spikestack truly is as a playstyle.

That being said,

Stay B+

A few weeks back I would've advocated for a Sableye rise, but as this team structure has become more popular, so are the teams that overprepare for the matchup. Players opting to go Cryogonal or Drifblim, two mons that beat Sableye consistently, as their hazard removal, the return of Bonnet, a mon that fits very easily into teams and is an unwinnable matchup for Sab, and just an overall increase of random Tera Darks to matchup fish the Sab player into a very disadvantageous position. Once the hype dies down a little bit I am sure this mon will rise back to consistency, but for now I think every team is way too prepared for Sab for it to be truly deserving of A or A-.

I don't know about other people, but Tera Ice Hitmontop is a mon I've used for a long time, because 180 BP Triple Axel allows it to act as a secondary wallbreaker if needed. And Lum Berry is an item I run because it's a good item in general and Sableye is not the only reason why. Hitmontop hates burn and paralysis. Lum allows it to 1v1 Drifblim and Sandaconda much more efficiently, two mons that carry status moves. You improve your matchup vs Mesprit and Snorlax this way, too. Make sure you avoid Rocky Helmet sets and Muk becomes less of an issue as well.

As for Sableye, I believe recent meta trends have not been kind to it and expose its weak stats pretty badly in my opinion. The spike stack teams are being carried by Snorlax if anything - Orthworm has a bad special defense even invested, still feels like a fake steel-type very often, and often wants ironpress so this core becomes fairly exploitable by stuff like Choice Specs Whimsicott, that can Switcheroo its item on Lax if needed and pave the way for something like Passimian to clean up. Brute Bonnet (a Pokemon that I glaze, but i'm sticking to facts here) carries super effective coverage against Orth and Snorlax (and Lanturn if you need it to) and laughs in Sableye's face with its additional Dark typing. There's also people finding new ways to use Glastrier, and RestTalk can also cause a lot of damage to these cores.

I don't think the additional usage of Tera Dark is caused by Sableye. Toxicroak already uses Tera Dark to boost the power of its Sucker Punch, same with Bonnet, Muk already carried Tera Dark as its main Tera in order to be immune to Psychic, Passimian boosts the power of its Knock Off, and so on. Tera Dark's ability to turn said mons into Sableye counters is only a secondary effect in my opinion. The metagame doesn't revolve that much around a B tier Pokemon.

 

[Tuthur]

VR Update
New placements
Toxicroak to A+
Brute Bonnet to A

Rises
Venusaur A+ to S
Hitmontop A to A+
Glastrier A- to A+
Orthworm B+ to A-
Cryogonal B to B+
Froslass B to B+
Houndoom B to B+
Naclstack B to B+
Whiscash B to A-
Camerupt C+ to B-
Drifblim C+ to B+
Mabosstiff C+ to B-
Pyroar C+ to B
Sandaconda C+ to B+
Clefairy UR to C
Dusknoir UR to C
Gurdurr UR to C
Honchkrow UR to C
Quilladin UR to C
Rotom-Frost UR to C
Samurott UR to C+
Swalot UR to C
Ursaring UR to C

Drops
Basculin A to A-
Lanturn A to A-
Rotom-Mow A to B+
Sandslash A to A-
Sneasel Hisui A to A-
Farigiraf A- to B
Dipplin B+ to B
Trevenant B+ to B
Persian-Alola B to B-
Lurantis B- to C
Poliwrath C+ to UR
Scovillain C+ to UR
Shiftry C+ to UR
Cacturne C to UR
Carbink C to UR
Combusken C to UR
Dugtrio-Alola C to UR
Komala C to UR

votes

Pokemon	Nomination	Outcome	bloodace	diegoyuhhi	lettuce	LustfulLice	MJ	OranBerryBlissey10	sleid	THE_CHUNGLER	Tuthur
Brute Bonnet	New to A-/A	A	A	A	A-	A	A	A-	A	A	A+
Toxicroak	New to A/A+/S	A+	A	A+	A+	A+	A+	S	A+	A	S
Venusaur	A+ to S	S	S	S	S	S	S	S	A+	S	S
Basculin	A to A-	A-	B+	A-	A-	A-	B+	A-	B+	B+	A-
Lanturn	A to A-/B+	A-	A-	B+	A-	A-	A-	A	A-	A-	A-
Hitmontop	A to A+	A+	A+	A	A+	A	A	A+	A+	A+	A
Rotom-Mow	A to A-/B+	B+	B+	A	B+	A	B+	A+	B+	B+	B+
Sandslash	A to A-/B+	A-	A-	B+	A-	B+	A-	A	A-	A-	A-
Sneasel Hisui	A to A-/B+	A-	A-	A	A-	A-	A	A-	A	A-	A
Weezing	A to B+	A	A	A-	B+	A	A-	A	A	A	A
Clawitzer	A- to A/A+	A-	A-	A-	A	A-	A	A	A-	A-	A
Farigiraf	A- to B+/B-	B	B	B	B-	B	B	B+	B	B	B
Glastrier	A- to A/A+	A+	A	A+	A+	A	A+	A+	A+	A	A+
Magneton	A- to A/A+	A-	A-	A-	A-	A-	A	A	A	A-	A
Muk	A- to B+	A-	A-	A-	B+	B+	A-	A	B+	A-	A-
Oricorio	A- to A+	A-	A	A-	A-	A-	A-	A-	A	A	A-
Passimian	A- to A+	A-	A-	A+	A-	A-	A-	A-	A	A-	A
Shaymin	A- to A	A-	A-	A-	A-	A-	A	A-	A-	A-	A-
Sneasel	A- to A/A+	A-	A-	A-	A	A-	A-	A-	A-	A-	A-
Whimsicott	A- to A+/A/B+	A-	A-	A-	A	B+	A	A-	A	A-	A
Dipplin	B+ to B	B	B	B	B	B	B	B	B	B	B
Orthworm	B+ to A-/B-	A-	A-	A-	B+	B+	B+	A-	A-	A-	B+
Sableye	B+ to B-/B/A-/A	B+	B+	A-	B+	B+	B+	A-	B+	A-	B+
Trevenant	B+ to B/B-/C	B	B	B-	B	B	B-	B	B	B	B
Cryogonal	B to B+	B+	B+	B+	B+	B+	B+	B+	B+	B+	B+
Froslass	B to B+	B+	B+	B+	B+	B+	B+	B+	B+	B+	B+
Houndoom	B to B+/A-	B+	B	B	B+	B+	B	B+	B+	B	A-
Lycanroc	B to C+	B	B+	B	B-	B	B	B+	B	B+	B
Naclstack	B to A/A-	B+	B+	A-	B+	B+	A-	A-	B+	B+	B+
Persian Alola	B to C+	B-	B-	C+	B-	B-	C+	B-	B-	B-	C+
Whiscash	B to B+/A-/A	A-	A-	A	A-	A-	B+	B-	A-	A-	A-
Exeggutor Alola	B- to B	B-	B-	B-	B	B	B-	B+	B-	B-	B-
Lurantis	B- to C+/C	C	C+	C	C	C	C	C+	C+	C+	C
Virizion	B- to C	B-	B-	B-	B-	B-	B-	C+	C+	B-	B-
Camerupt	C+ to B-/B	B-	B-	B	B-	B-	B-	B-	B-	B-	B-
Drifblim	C+ to B+/A	B+	B+	B+ i miss brav	A	B+	A-	B+	B+	B+	A
Mabosstiff	C+ to B	B-	C+	B-	B-	B	B	B+	B-	C+	C+
Poliwrath	C+ to UR	UR	C	UR	UR	UR	UR	C	UR	C	UR
Pyroar	C+ to B/A-	B	B-	A-	B	B	B	B	B	B-	B+
Sandaconda	C+ to A/B+	B+	B+	B+	B+	B+	B+	C+	B	B+	A
Scovillain	C+ to UR	UR	UR	UR	UR	UR	UR	UR	UR	UR	UR
Shiftry	C+ to UR	UR	UR	UR	UR	UR	UR	B-	UR	UR	UR
Cacturne	C to UR	UR	UR	C	C	UR	UR	C	UR	UR	UR
Carbink	C to UR	UR	UR	UR	C	UR	UR	B-	UR	UR	UR
Combusken	C to UR	UR	UR	UR	UR	UR	UR	UR	UR	UR	UR
Crabominable	C to C+	C	C	C	C	C	UR	C+	UR	UR	UR
Crocalor	C to C+	C+	C+	C+	C	C	C	C+	C	.C+	C+
Dugtrio Alola	C to UR	UR	UR	UR	UR	UR	UR	C	UR	C	UR
Komala	C to UR	UR	UR	UR	UR	UR	UR	C	UR	C	UR
Piloswine	C to C+/B-/UR	C	C	C	C	C	C	C	C	C	UR
Sceptile	C to UR	C	C	C	C	C	C	C	C	C	C
Tauros	C to C+	C	C	C	C	C	C	C	C	C	C+
Victreebel	C to UR	C	C	C	UR	C	UR	C	C	UR	UR
Clefairy	UR to C	C	C+	C+	UR	C	C	C	C	C	C
Dunsparce	UR to C	UR	UR	UR	UR	UR	UR	UR	UR	UR	UR
Dusknoir	UR to C	C	UR	C	C	C	C	C	C	C	UR
Gurdurr	UR to C+	C	UR	C	UR	C	C	C	C	C+	C
Honchkrow	UR to C+	C	C	C	C	C	C	C	C	C+	UR
Lycanroc Midnight	UR to C	UR	UR	UR	UR	UR	UR	C	UR	UR	UR
Quilladin	UR to C+	C	UR	C	C	C	UR	C	C	UR	C
Rabsca	UR to C	UR	UR	UR	UR	UR	UR	C	UR	UR	UR
Rotom-Frost	UR to C	C	C	C	C	C	UR	UR	UR	UR	UR
Samurott	UR to B-	C+	C	C+	C+	C	B-	C+	C	B-	B-
Squawkabilly	UR to C+/B-	UR	UR	UR	UR	UR	UR	UR	UR	C	UR
Swalot	UR to C+	C	C+	C+	C	C	C	C	C	UR	UR
Ursaring	UR to C+	C	C	UR	C	B-	C	B-	C	C+	UR
Vivillon	UR to C	UR	UR	UR	UR	UR	UR	UR	UR	UR	UR

 

[LHF]

VR Update
New placements
Toxicroak to A+
Brute Bonnet to A

Rises
Venusaur A+ to S
Hitmontop A to A+
Glastrier A- to A+
Orthworm B+ to A-
Cryogonal B to B+
Froslass B to B+
Houndoom B to B+
Naclstack B to B+
Whiscash B to A-
Camerupt C+ to B-
Drifblim C+ to B+
Mabosstiff C+ to B-
Pyroar C+ to B
Sandaconda C+ to B+
Clefairy UR to C
Dusknoir UR to C
Gurdurr UR to C
Honchkrow UR to C
Quilladin UR to C
Rotom-Frost UR to C
Samurott UR to C+
Swalot UR to C
Ursaring UR to C

Drops
Basculin A to A-
Lanturn A to A-
Rotom-Mow A to B+
Sandslash A to A-
Sneasel Hisui A to A-
Farigiraf A- to B
Dipplin B+ to B
Trevenant B+ to B
Persian-Alola B to B-
Lurantis B- to C
Poliwrath C+ to UR
Scovillain C+ to UR
Shiftry C+ to UR
Cacturne C to UR
Carbink C to UR
Combusken C to UR
Dugtrio-Alola C to UR
Komala C to UR

I'll be the one to ask. C mons are usually niche and very rarely worth the merit, but anyone who knows Smogon history knows Dusknoir has never really found its footing in any meaningful capacity. So I have to know, what niche does Dusknoir offer in this tier for C rank? I wanted to see if anyone nommed it but I don't think I could find any post on it.

 

[lettuce]

I'll be the one to ask. C mons are usually niche and very rarely worth the merit, but anyone who knows Smogon history knows Dusknoir has never really found its footing in any meaningful capacity. So I have to know, what niche does Dusknoir offer in this tier for C rank? I wanted to see if anyone nommed it but I don't think I could find any post on it.

I was the person who nommed it, but I didn't have time to say more than 'its shown up in tours.' It's been using BIG TONY 2014's physical attacking set with weakness policy, leech life, poltergeist, and shadow sneak (+ pain split I think?) to good result lately. IIRC leech life outheals lax's damage while also hitting Brute Bonnet, and between that and tera, some of the tier's most common ghost answers lose to the set.

Here are some replays of Dusknoir in action:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9zu-881753
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9zu-902973?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9zu-894975