What do you mean unoptimal can you explain so I can fix the team
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Project Old Gen Hackmons Megathread
- Thread starter Ransei
- Start date
you're limiting yourself to the 510 ev limit unnecessarily, just type in the evs instead of using the slider when you're building with a non-ph format in the teambuilder
Ohh I didn't know i could do that... I thought gen7 onwards had no ev limit
I have updated my original post with the fixed team
Yeetoos why is there so much empty space between your sentences? 
I'm gonna try to clear up some of the misconceptions here.
I shall now transition into a short yap about the current state of the meta.
"Broken" doesn't even begin to describe how powerful hazards are in this meta. The lack of consistent hazard control makes it is THE best way to make progress and is one of the reasons Deoxy-S is the top mon in the tier. Sleep resetting upon switching and the constant threat of getting hit by Sheer Cold makes Deo a pain to play around but Deo is also incapable of making progress against double WG structures on it's own which is why having Stealth Rock / Spikes along with it is a must. Since Deo forces constant switching, the chip damage stacks up very very fast and once your trapped in that loop it's game over. This leads to most games being centered around being able to set up hazards while keeping them off of your side of the field which makes 2 playstyles being particularly dominant: hazard stack and hyper offense. Hazard stack, obviously, focuses on setting up as many hazards as possible and cleaning up with strong priority, shell smash sweepers, or of course NG Deo. Hyper offense on the other hand aims for quick games and winning before the opponent can. Other playstyles like full stall, weather, and non-hazard central balances / BOs see considerably less usage and are typically much less consistent in comparison due to making progress much slower while being unable to stop Spikes from tearing through their team.
#IDontSave Replays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5ubers-2522838886 HO
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5customgame-2522824509-cxyyxm0p7d8odi7lq3fq3f7bm9g4jfgpw HStack
yeah that's the best I can do for replays, I didn't save any of the good examples
TL;DR funni triangles on floor = beeg dmg = ggezzz (or just win faster)
remember this is just my opinion, please don't bully me
I don't even play PH.
I'm gonna try to clear up some of the misconceptions here.
While it's true that mold breaker is incredibly powerful since it allows your breakers / sweepers to actually get past wonder guards (like it does in every other PH gen), it's not the only way to win. Passive damage from hazards, status, and even sandstorm/hail are great ways to make progress.
Sleep is in fact broken, but it doesn't mean you should just spam 6 (or in this case 4.) sweepers with Spore. You lose out on too much coverage and utility to justify it and it almost guarantees you lose to opposing offense.
If by easier you mean making the broken stuff become more broken then sure yeah. Spirit is the best glue mon anyone can ask for and it's possibly holding the tier together because without it weird coverage fishes would become actually viable, making games more reliant on MU than actual skill.
I shall now transition into a short yap about the current state of the meta.
"Broken" doesn't even begin to describe how powerful hazards are in this meta. The lack of consistent hazard control makes it is THE best way to make progress and is one of the reasons Deoxy-S is the top mon in the tier. Sleep resetting upon switching and the constant threat of getting hit by Sheer Cold makes Deo a pain to play around but Deo is also incapable of making progress against double WG structures on it's own which is why having Stealth Rock / Spikes along with it is a must. Since Deo forces constant switching, the chip damage stacks up very very fast and once your trapped in that loop it's game over. This leads to most games being centered around being able to set up hazards while keeping them off of your side of the field which makes 2 playstyles being particularly dominant: hazard stack and hyper offense. Hazard stack, obviously, focuses on setting up as many hazards as possible and cleaning up with strong priority, shell smash sweepers, or of course NG Deo. Hyper offense on the other hand aims for quick games and winning before the opponent can. Other playstyles like full stall, weather, and non-hazard central balances / BOs see considerably less usage and are typically much less consistent in comparison due to making progress much slower while being unable to stop Spikes from tearing through their team.
#IDontSave Replays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5ubers-2522838886 HO
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5customgame-2522824509-cxyyxm0p7d8odi7lq3fq3f7bm9g4jfgpw HStack
yeah that's the best I can do for replays, I didn't save any of the good examples
TL;DR funni triangles on floor = beeg dmg = ggezzz (or just win faster)
remember this is just my opinion, please don't bully me
I don't even play PH.
While I think most of what you said here is true, but I feel like HO really isn't as good as hazard stack due to the fact that defensive counterplay is extremely good. It is almost an impossible task to sweep with anything since counterplay is so easy to fit on most teams. Double WG (with sleep talk), HP fake speed Regi/Slak, pranksters, imp, etc. are all really good on any team. Every good sweeper in the game falls to at least one of these, or has the possibility of being completely counterswept in the case of imp, making it pretty hard for the sweepers to do their job. Chipping the defenaive mons and crippling them with status is by far the most consistant way to make progress. Hazards are the 1 thing that allows any team to make consistent meaningful progress and countering/setting/abusing them should be the main goal of basically every team due to the fact that everything without their support has a very hard time doing basically anything with any shred of consistancy.
hello Yeetoos I know your excited/determined to have a sample team or smth idk I will let you know of some changes that could be made to this team and that as of rn I dont think samples will be accepted they CAN be posted in resonable non flooding posts but as of rn they wont be accepted but are appreciated to see what sets you people are running! but I have to say it but please re consider the Lando set firstly, because lando-t is not a SD user AT ALL it's usually a sleep talk + Aromo/Heal Bell encore or taunt and nature power user, secondly double HO is good yes but it lack the defensive counter play most other teams I'll also say this again don't use toxic it's pointless with Lando's with aromo going around it's a waste of a move slot that could be better optimized, also not all your Moldy mons needs sleep talk + spore that's sub optimal and lacks proper improofing also please fix that natures of some of your mons make Lando Adamant, Gengar Timid Palkia timid (or go Modest Diagla) please give lando the shed shell so you don't insta lose to Stag also why does registeel have sleep talk? what's that's gonna do ALSO you lack hazard control also two moldy mons is while good not the most useful when Lando/Deo-s/Regigias can just revenge kill ya I will also do a small yap about the B2W2 Meta hazards are indeed a very valuable tool to have as it's really hard to counter play hazards and it makes AMAZING Progress to opposing offense without it you cannot make ANY form of actual progress unless you have like imp or something like that secondly your team lacks any usable counter play to apposing offense/hazards and that is bad also please refer to the VR/Current samples to get an idea of what to use and what not to use also in what world is Skarm a good magic bouncer like that??? it crumbles to a fire move and can be easily outplayed all it has going for it is immunity to grounded hazards. ~ Viola
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Child of Night has been added to the Gen 5 Pure Hackmons council
I was originally make a post about 2 teams I made but I got tiered while writing this one. This post is basically an RMT disguised as an educational post since I'm pretty sure the sets here have not really been explored before.
NG Aero Offense
https://pokepast.es/305aa051c373ace6
Magic Guard Pokestar Spirit
Dialga has become a really popular Mold Breaker Rapid Spin user due to it being immune to Toxics Spikes and being able to 2HKO Giratina, and 2HKO Spirit if it is chipped enough (this is commonly done with hazards or status from what I have seen). Due to there not being any Ghost + Steel types in the gen, this is the next best answer. Pokestar is naturally faster than Dialga so it can heal before being hit, can't be put to sleep if it can use its Toxic Orb, and it can't be chipped with passive damage, meaning it can come in lots of times in on Dialga without much worry of dying. Leftovers is also really good on it if you think your opponent will bring Toxic Spikes.
I chose to make it into a sub passer as it will be forcing switches on lots of mons, with Whirlwind as a nice measure against Shell Smash Dialga, and it can yield some nice chip damage.
Mold Breaker Deoxys-Speed
With how solid the spin blocker is on this team, I wanted something that could set up maybe 1 or 2 hazards reliably and then die.
Spore is there because sleep is great and protect is there so you don't die to HP Fake-Speed leads. Tspikes isn't used since Aero wants to sleep stuff. The item is Leftovers but something like Sash or Lum also works. Tspikes isn't used since Aero wants to sleep stuff.
No Guard Aerodactyl
Aero has mostly been used as a STAG user in this gen for its unique typing and speed, but I think these qualities potentially work even better when used on a NG set. One of shortcomings of NG Deoxys Speed is that it is frail, hates sand and hates hazards, but Aero fixes these problems. It is immune to sand, spikes and, majorly, it is immune to Toxic Spikes in exchange of being weak to Stealth Rock. It is also not weak to Bug meaning Pokestars U-turns break its sub only after around 3 hits, which is great for the Aero since basically nothing wants to come in on it while a sub is up. It is true that Aero is much slower than Deo s, but I feel like 130 base speed is still really good and gets the jump on most of the meta anyway.
The set is the standard NG set.
Wonder Guard Pokestar Spirit
Not really a ground breaking set, but the combination of Encore, Recover, Whirlwind, and Sleep talk have been working really well for me. Encore and Whirlwind make it so basically nothing wants to set up infront of you, Recover lets you stay healthy and Sleep Talk for when you... fall asleep.
Huge Power Arceus
Arceus is basically HP Regigigas and Slaking but better in a lot of ways. It ties with Slaking in overall defense, but has a lot more overall SpD than it, and it just has generally more bulk than Regi on both sides. It is also a lot faster than both (and a lot of other mons), meaning it can run Adamant while still outspeed both even if they have a +Speed nature. With a Silk Scarf, Arceus basically gets the same damage rolls as Regi and Slaking while being a better version of both, but it can't run Lum Berry which isn't a huge deal.
Standard Normal HP Fake-Speed set
Prankster Landorus-Therian
For the final member of the team, I wanted another anti sweeper measure alongside the Arceus, so I went with Lando T. Band is there since Trick is busted and you sometimes need the extra damage (like against latios). Protect so you can scout moves after you Trick band, and then decide if they are worth Encoreing.
Replays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5ubers-2526602659?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5ubers-2526052242?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5ubers-2526685672 The team lost here but I feel like it still shows what it does nicely.
NG Aero Offense
https://pokepast.es/305aa051c373ace6
Magic Guard Pokestar Spirit
Pokestar Spirit @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Careful Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Recover
- Whirlwind
- Baton Pass
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Careful Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Recover
- Whirlwind
- Baton Pass
Dialga has become a really popular Mold Breaker Rapid Spin user due to it being immune to Toxics Spikes and being able to 2HKO Giratina, and 2HKO Spirit if it is chipped enough (this is commonly done with hazards or status from what I have seen). Due to there not being any Ghost + Steel types in the gen, this is the next best answer. Pokestar is naturally faster than Dialga so it can heal before being hit, can't be put to sleep if it can use its Toxic Orb, and it can't be chipped with passive damage, meaning it can come in lots of times in on Dialga without much worry of dying. Leftovers is also really good on it if you think your opponent will bring Toxic Spikes.
I chose to make it into a sub passer as it will be forcing switches on lots of mons, with Whirlwind as a nice measure against Shell Smash Dialga, and it can yield some nice chip damage.
Mold Breaker Deoxys-Speed
Deoxys-Speed @ Leftovers
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Protect
- Spikes
- Stealth Rock
- Spore
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Protect
- Spikes
- Stealth Rock
- Spore
With how solid the spin blocker is on this team, I wanted something that could set up maybe 1 or 2 hazards reliably and then die.
Spore is there because sleep is great and protect is there so you don't die to HP Fake-Speed leads. Tspikes isn't used since Aero wants to sleep stuff. The item is Leftovers but something like Sash or Lum also works. Tspikes isn't used since Aero wants to sleep stuff.
No Guard Aerodactyl
Aerodactyl @ Leftovers
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sheer Cold
- Entrainment
- Hypnosis
- Substitute
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sheer Cold
- Entrainment
- Hypnosis
- Substitute
Aero has mostly been used as a STAG user in this gen for its unique typing and speed, but I think these qualities potentially work even better when used on a NG set. One of shortcomings of NG Deoxys Speed is that it is frail, hates sand and hates hazards, but Aero fixes these problems. It is immune to sand, spikes and, majorly, it is immune to Toxic Spikes in exchange of being weak to Stealth Rock. It is also not weak to Bug meaning Pokestars U-turns break its sub only after around 3 hits, which is great for the Aero since basically nothing wants to come in on it while a sub is up. It is true that Aero is much slower than Deo s, but I feel like 130 base speed is still really good and gets the jump on most of the meta anyway.
The set is the standard NG set.
Wonder Guard Pokestar Spirit
Pokestar Spirit @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Careful Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Recover
- Whirlwind
- Baton Pass
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Careful Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Recover
- Whirlwind
- Baton Pass
Not really a ground breaking set, but the combination of Encore, Recover, Whirlwind, and Sleep talk have been working really well for me. Encore and Whirlwind make it so basically nothing wants to set up infront of you, Recover lets you stay healthy and Sleep Talk for when you... fall asleep.
Huge Power Arceus
Arceus @ Silk Scarf
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Extreme Speed
- Shadow Sneak
- Pursuit
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Extreme Speed
- Shadow Sneak
- Pursuit
Arceus is basically HP Regigigas and Slaking but better in a lot of ways. It ties with Slaking in overall defense, but has a lot more overall SpD than it, and it just has generally more bulk than Regi on both sides. It is also a lot faster than both (and a lot of other mons), meaning it can run Adamant while still outspeed both even if they have a +Speed nature. With a Silk Scarf, Arceus basically gets the same damage rolls as Regi and Slaking while being a better version of both, but it can't run Lum Berry which isn't a huge deal.
Standard Normal HP Fake-Speed set
252+ Atk Silk Scarf Huge Power Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Latios: 297-349 (81.5 - 95.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Slaking Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Latios: 306-360 (84 - 98.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Draco Plate Mold Breaker Dialga Judgment vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Arceus: 333-393 (75 - 88.5%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ SpA Draco Plate Dialga Judgment vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Regigigas: 354-417 (83.4 - 98.3%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ SpA Draco Plate Dialga Judgment vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Slaking: 492-580 (97.6 - 115%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Huge Power Slaking Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Latios: 306-360 (84 - 98.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Draco Plate Mold Breaker Dialga Judgment vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Arceus: 333-393 (75 - 88.5%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ SpA Draco Plate Dialga Judgment vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Regigigas: 354-417 (83.4 - 98.3%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ SpA Draco Plate Dialga Judgment vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Slaking: 492-580 (97.6 - 115%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Prankster Landorus-Therian
Landorus-Therian @ Choice Band
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Nature Power
- Trick
- Protect
- Encore
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Nature Power
- Trick
- Protect
- Encore
For the final member of the team, I wanted another anti sweeper measure alongside the Arceus, so I went with Lando T. Band is there since Trick is busted and you sometimes need the extra damage (like against latios). Protect so you can scout moves after you Trick band, and then decide if they are worth Encoreing.
Replays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5ubers-2526602659?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5ubers-2526052242?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5ubers-2526685672 The team lost here but I feel like it still shows what it does nicely.
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Sample Submission:
Solar System Balance
https://pokepast.es/f55c058f638411a0
THE TEAM
Deo-S is what I would consider the "standard" wg DeoS set, its easy to use, consistent and good (there's a reason wg deoS is so popular) magic coat stops sleep/hazards (which rule this meta with an iron fist) and it uses sub-pass to give a helping hand to the other team members.
And lum Berry to guarantee a sub without sleep getting in the way
I have said multiple times how OP PS-Spirit is and my point still stands, you genuinely need to give uo at least 1 team slot just to deal with this bum, however because I want a competent team I will use him
Now ferrothorn is actually my favourite steel Mbouncer, while ik skarm is the best in being immune to Spikes, i find ferro so much more consistent because of being immune to spore and thus having room for other items that aren't lum Berry
Rayquaza is the 1st of our 3 offensive threats, after wanting a Mbreaker who isn't food for Groudon or landoT I came to realise Rayquaza is that guy, while not as good as latios, Rayquaza is able to use mold breaker without being weak to ghost and dark and being ground immune i feel like Rayquaza is the best mold user in the format (that a discussion for another time)
Now gigas... our main sweeper and our goat, huge power with E-Speed ohkos most of the format (baring wg, ghosts and very bulky mons) and having CC and Sacred fire to hit those bulky mons, with Ssneak to get dmg on Gengar and the like.
And speaking of Gengar he is our final mon, being our 2nd mold breaker gengars job is to be there to hit the faster mons out of rays speed Tier and get more coverage on different bulky mons, being able to hit latios, opponent Gengar and DeoS for super effective damage is quite valuable to say the least and makes for a lovely closing mon to the team.
Thank you for coming to my Ted talk
Solar System Balance
https://pokepast.es/f55c058f638411a0
THE TEAM
Deo-S is what I would consider the "standard" wg DeoS set, its easy to use, consistent and good (there's a reason wg deoS is so popular) magic coat stops sleep/hazards (which rule this meta with an iron fist) and it uses sub-pass to give a helping hand to the other team members.
And lum Berry to guarantee a sub without sleep getting in the way
I have said multiple times how OP PS-Spirit is and my point still stands, you genuinely need to give uo at least 1 team slot just to deal with this bum, however because I want a competent team I will use him
Now ferrothorn is actually my favourite steel Mbouncer, while ik skarm is the best in being immune to Spikes, i find ferro so much more consistent because of being immune to spore and thus having room for other items that aren't lum Berry
Rayquaza is the 1st of our 3 offensive threats, after wanting a Mbreaker who isn't food for Groudon or landoT I came to realise Rayquaza is that guy, while not as good as latios, Rayquaza is able to use mold breaker without being weak to ghost and dark and being ground immune i feel like Rayquaza is the best mold user in the format (that a discussion for another time)
Now gigas... our main sweeper and our goat, huge power with E-Speed ohkos most of the format (baring wg, ghosts and very bulky mons) and having CC and Sacred fire to hit those bulky mons, with Ssneak to get dmg on Gengar and the like.
And speaking of Gengar he is our final mon, being our 2nd mold breaker gengars job is to be there to hit the faster mons out of rays speed Tier and get more coverage on different bulky mons, being able to hit latios, opponent Gengar and DeoS for super effective damage is quite valuable to say the least and makes for a lovely closing mon to the team.
Thank you for coming to my Ted talk
OK, the teams are getting better. There are some twists I would recommend.
Firstly,
magic coat stops sleep/hazards vs And lum Berry to guarantee a sub without sleep getting in the way
There is no reason for this overlap. WG Deoxys should either run Leftovers and then 4th move Taunt/Gastro or Mail and then 4th move Heal, which are much more valuable than Lum. This Deoxys set has no longevity and while Magic Coat is strong on everything, Deoxys suffers from 4th move syndrome like ORAS Giratina, hence, it is 99% of the time not worth using.
Deoxys-Speed @ Leftovers / Mail
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Baton Pass
- Spore
- Taunt / Gastro Acid / Recover
Secondly,
- Psycho Shift
- Recover
- Substitute
- U-turn
Can you explain the reason behind Shed Shell Psycho Shift + Sub?
Thirdly,
ferro so much more consistent because of being immune to spore
Gen 5 Grass is actually not immune to Spore. Set looks fine, would probably Skarm tho, and maybe U-Turn / Rapid Spin (depending on Pokestar Spirit set) over Spore.
Next,
Rayquaza NOT improofed. Imp straight up tears apart your team. Would recommend
here. Best Mold.Finally,
Gigas needs Pursuit, due to the reason that mons can simply switch out without ANY PUNISHMENTS, and the best WG, Pokestar Spirit can't be hit by any non-mold move unless you go Scrappy which definitely isn't the approach here. Drop Sacred/CC.
Nothing wrong with Gar. One of the Best Molds anyw.