What do you mean unoptimal can you explain so I can fix the team
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Project Old Gen Hackmons Megathread
- Thread starter Ransei
- Start date
you're limiting yourself to the 510 ev limit unnecessarily, just type in the evs instead of using the slider when you're building with a non-ph format in the teambuilder
Ohh I didn't know i could do that... I thought gen7 onwards had no ev limit
I have updated my original post with the fixed team
Yeetoos why is there so much empty space between your sentences? 
I'm gonna try to clear up some of the misconceptions here.
I shall now transition into a short yap about the current state of the meta.
"Broken" doesn't even begin to describe how powerful hazards are in this meta. The lack of consistent hazard control makes it is THE best way to make progress and is one of the reasons Deoxy-S is the top mon in the tier. Sleep resetting upon switching and the constant threat of getting hit by Sheer Cold makes Deo a pain to play around but Deo is also incapable of making progress against double WG structures on it's own which is why having Stealth Rock / Spikes along with it is a must. Since Deo forces constant switching, the chip damage stacks up very very fast and once your trapped in that loop it's game over. This leads to most games being centered around being able to set up hazards while keeping them off of your side of the field which makes 2 playstyles being particularly dominant: hazard stack and hyper offense. Hazard stack, obviously, focuses on setting up as many hazards as possible and cleaning up with strong priority, shell smash sweepers, or of course NG Deo. Hyper offense on the other hand aims for quick games and winning before the opponent can. Other playstyles like full stall, weather, and non-hazard central balances / BOs see considerably less usage and are typically much less consistent in comparison due to making progress much slower while being unable to stop Spikes from tearing through their team.
#IDontSave Replays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5ubers-2522838886 HO
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5customgame-2522824509-cxyyxm0p7d8odi7lq3fq3f7bm9g4jfgpw HStack
yeah that's the best I can do for replays, I didn't save any of the good examples
TL;DR funni triangles on floor = beeg dmg = ggezzz (or just win faster)
remember this is just my opinion, please don't bully me
I don't even play PH.
I'm gonna try to clear up some of the misconceptions here.
While it's true that mold breaker is incredibly powerful since it allows your breakers / sweepers to actually get past wonder guards (like it does in every other PH gen), it's not the only way to win. Passive damage from hazards, status, and even sandstorm/hail are great ways to make progress.
Sleep is in fact broken, but it doesn't mean you should just spam 6 (or in this case 4.) sweepers with Spore. You lose out on too much coverage and utility to justify it and it almost guarantees you lose to opposing offense.
If by easier you mean making the broken stuff become more broken then sure yeah. Spirit is the best glue mon anyone can ask for and it's possibly holding the tier together because without it weird coverage fishes would become actually viable, making games more reliant on MU than actual skill.
I shall now transition into a short yap about the current state of the meta.
"Broken" doesn't even begin to describe how powerful hazards are in this meta. The lack of consistent hazard control makes it is THE best way to make progress and is one of the reasons Deoxy-S is the top mon in the tier. Sleep resetting upon switching and the constant threat of getting hit by Sheer Cold makes Deo a pain to play around but Deo is also incapable of making progress against double WG structures on it's own which is why having Stealth Rock / Spikes along with it is a must. Since Deo forces constant switching, the chip damage stacks up very very fast and once your trapped in that loop it's game over. This leads to most games being centered around being able to set up hazards while keeping them off of your side of the field which makes 2 playstyles being particularly dominant: hazard stack and hyper offense. Hazard stack, obviously, focuses on setting up as many hazards as possible and cleaning up with strong priority, shell smash sweepers, or of course NG Deo. Hyper offense on the other hand aims for quick games and winning before the opponent can. Other playstyles like full stall, weather, and non-hazard central balances / BOs see considerably less usage and are typically much less consistent in comparison due to making progress much slower while being unable to stop Spikes from tearing through their team.
#IDontSave Replays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5ubers-2522838886 HO
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5customgame-2522824509-cxyyxm0p7d8odi7lq3fq3f7bm9g4jfgpw HStack
yeah that's the best I can do for replays, I didn't save any of the good examples
TL;DR funni triangles on floor = beeg dmg = ggezzz (or just win faster)
remember this is just my opinion, please don't bully me
I don't even play PH.
While I think most of what you said here is true, but I feel like HO really isn't as good as hazard stack due to the fact that defensive counterplay is extremely good. It is almost an impossible task to sweep with anything since counterplay is so easy to fit on most teams. Double WG (with sleep talk), HP fake speed Regi/Slak, pranksters, imp, etc. are all really good on any team. Every good sweeper in the game falls to at least one of these, or has the possibility of being completely counterswept in the case of imp, making it pretty hard for the sweepers to do their job. Chipping the defenaive mons and crippling them with status is by far the most consistant way to make progress. Hazards are the 1 thing that allows any team to make consistent meaningful progress and countering/setting/abusing them should be the main goal of basically every team due to the fact that everything without their support has a very hard time doing basically anything with any shred of consistancy.
hello Yeetoos I know your excited/determined to have a sample team or smth idk I will let you know of some changes that could be made to this team and that as of rn I dont think samples will be accepted they CAN be posted in resonable non flooding posts but as of rn they wont be accepted but are appreciated to see what sets you people are running! but I have to say it but please re consider the Lando set firstly, because lando-t is not a SD user AT ALL it's usually a sleep talk + Aromo/Heal Bell encore or taunt and nature power user, secondly double HO is good yes but it lack the defensive counter play most other teams I'll also say this again don't use toxic it's pointless with Lando's with aromo going around it's a waste of a move slot that could be better optimized, also not all your Moldy mons needs sleep talk + spore that's sub optimal and lacks proper improofing also please fix that natures of some of your mons make Lando Adamant, Gengar Timid Palkia timid (or go Modest Diagla) please give lando the shed shell so you don't insta lose to Stag also why does registeel have sleep talk? what's that's gonna do ALSO you lack hazard control also two moldy mons is while good not the most useful when Lando/Deo-s/Regigias can just revenge kill ya I will also do a small yap about the B2W2 Meta hazards are indeed a very valuable tool to have as it's really hard to counter play hazards and it makes AMAZING Progress to opposing offense without it you cannot make ANY form of actual progress unless you have like imp or something like that secondly your team lacks any usable counter play to apposing offense/hazards and that is bad also please refer to the VR/Current samples to get an idea of what to use and what not to use also in what world is Skarm a good magic bouncer like that??? it crumbles to a fire move and can be easily outplayed all it has going for it is immunity to grounded hazards. ~ Viola
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Child of Night has been added to the Gen 5 Pure Hackmons council
I was originally make a post about 2 teams I made but I got tiered while writing this one. This post is basically an RMT disguised as an educational post since I'm pretty sure the sets here have not really been explored before.
NG Aero Offense
https://pokepast.es/305aa051c373ace6
Magic Guard Pokestar Spirit
Dialga has become a really popular Mold Breaker Rapid Spin user due to it being immune to Toxics Spikes and being able to 2HKO Giratina, and 2HKO Spirit if it is chipped enough (this is commonly done with hazards or status from what I have seen). Due to there not being any Ghost + Steel types in the gen, this is the next best answer. Pokestar is naturally faster than Dialga so it can heal before being hit, can't be put to sleep if it can use its Toxic Orb, and it can't be chipped with passive damage, meaning it can come in lots of times in on Dialga without much worry of dying. Leftovers is also really good on it if you think your opponent will bring Toxic Spikes.
I chose to make it into a sub passer as it will be forcing switches on lots of mons, with Whirlwind as a nice measure against Shell Smash Dialga, and it can yield some nice chip damage.
Mold Breaker Deoxys-Speed
With how solid the spin blocker is on this team, I wanted something that could set up maybe 1 or 2 hazards reliably and then die.
Spore is there because sleep is great and protect is there so you don't die to HP Fake-Speed leads. Tspikes isn't used since Aero wants to sleep stuff. The item is Leftovers but something like Sash or Lum also works. Tspikes isn't used since Aero wants to sleep stuff.
No Guard Aerodactyl
Aero has mostly been used as a STAG user in this gen for its unique typing and speed, but I think these qualities potentially work even better when used on a NG set. One of shortcomings of NG Deoxys Speed is that it is frail, hates sand and hates hazards, but Aero fixes these problems. It is immune to sand, spikes and, majorly, it is immune to Toxic Spikes in exchange of being weak to Stealth Rock. It is also not weak to Bug meaning Pokestars U-turns break its sub only after around 3 hits, which is great for the Aero since basically nothing wants to come in on it while a sub is up. It is true that Aero is much slower than Deo s, but I feel like 130 base speed is still really good and gets the jump on most of the meta anyway.
The set is the standard NG set.
Wonder Guard Pokestar Spirit
Not really a ground breaking set, but the combination of Encore, Recover, Whirlwind, and Sleep talk have been working really well for me. Encore and Whirlwind make it so basically nothing wants to set up infront of you, Recover lets you stay healthy and Sleep Talk for when you... fall asleep.
Huge Power Arceus
Arceus is basically HP Regigigas and Slaking but better in a lot of ways. It ties with Slaking in overall defense, but has a lot more overall SpD than it, and it just has generally more bulk than Regi on both sides. It is also a lot faster than both (and a lot of other mons), meaning it can run Adamant while still outspeed both even if they have a +Speed nature. With a Silk Scarf, Arceus basically gets the same damage rolls as Regi and Slaking while being a better version of both, but it can't run Lum Berry which isn't a huge deal.
Standard Normal HP Fake-Speed set
Prankster Landorus-Therian
For the final member of the team, I wanted another anti sweeper measure alongside the Arceus, so I went with Lando T. Band is there since Trick is busted and you sometimes need the extra damage (like against latios). Protect so you can scout moves after you Trick band, and then decide if they are worth Encoreing.
Replays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5ubers-2526602659?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5ubers-2526052242?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5ubers-2526685672 The team lost here but I feel like it still shows what it does nicely.
NG Aero Offense
https://pokepast.es/305aa051c373ace6
Magic Guard Pokestar Spirit
Pokestar Spirit @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Careful Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Recover
- Whirlwind
- Baton Pass
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Careful Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Recover
- Whirlwind
- Baton Pass
Dialga has become a really popular Mold Breaker Rapid Spin user due to it being immune to Toxics Spikes and being able to 2HKO Giratina, and 2HKO Spirit if it is chipped enough (this is commonly done with hazards or status from what I have seen). Due to there not being any Ghost + Steel types in the gen, this is the next best answer. Pokestar is naturally faster than Dialga so it can heal before being hit, can't be put to sleep if it can use its Toxic Orb, and it can't be chipped with passive damage, meaning it can come in lots of times in on Dialga without much worry of dying. Leftovers is also really good on it if you think your opponent will bring Toxic Spikes.
I chose to make it into a sub passer as it will be forcing switches on lots of mons, with Whirlwind as a nice measure against Shell Smash Dialga, and it can yield some nice chip damage.
Mold Breaker Deoxys-Speed
Deoxys-Speed @ Leftovers
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Protect
- Spikes
- Stealth Rock
- Spore
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Protect
- Spikes
- Stealth Rock
- Spore
With how solid the spin blocker is on this team, I wanted something that could set up maybe 1 or 2 hazards reliably and then die.
Spore is there because sleep is great and protect is there so you don't die to HP Fake-Speed leads. Tspikes isn't used since Aero wants to sleep stuff. The item is Leftovers but something like Sash or Lum also works. Tspikes isn't used since Aero wants to sleep stuff.
No Guard Aerodactyl
Aerodactyl @ Leftovers
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sheer Cold
- Entrainment
- Hypnosis
- Substitute
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sheer Cold
- Entrainment
- Hypnosis
- Substitute
Aero has mostly been used as a STAG user in this gen for its unique typing and speed, but I think these qualities potentially work even better when used on a NG set. One of shortcomings of NG Deoxys Speed is that it is frail, hates sand and hates hazards, but Aero fixes these problems. It is immune to sand, spikes and, majorly, it is immune to Toxic Spikes in exchange of being weak to Stealth Rock. It is also not weak to Bug meaning Pokestars U-turns break its sub only after around 3 hits, which is great for the Aero since basically nothing wants to come in on it while a sub is up. It is true that Aero is much slower than Deo s, but I feel like 130 base speed is still really good and gets the jump on most of the meta anyway.
The set is the standard NG set.
Wonder Guard Pokestar Spirit
Pokestar Spirit @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Careful Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Recover
- Whirlwind
- Baton Pass
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Careful Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Recover
- Whirlwind
- Baton Pass
Not really a ground breaking set, but the combination of Encore, Recover, Whirlwind, and Sleep talk have been working really well for me. Encore and Whirlwind make it so basically nothing wants to set up infront of you, Recover lets you stay healthy and Sleep Talk for when you... fall asleep.
Huge Power Arceus
Arceus @ Silk Scarf
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Extreme Speed
- Shadow Sneak
- Pursuit
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Extreme Speed
- Shadow Sneak
- Pursuit
Arceus is basically HP Regigigas and Slaking but better in a lot of ways. It ties with Slaking in overall defense, but has a lot more overall SpD than it, and it just has generally more bulk than Regi on both sides. It is also a lot faster than both (and a lot of other mons), meaning it can run Adamant while still outspeed both even if they have a +Speed nature. With a Silk Scarf, Arceus basically gets the same damage rolls as Regi and Slaking while being a better version of both, but it can't run Lum Berry which isn't a huge deal.
Standard Normal HP Fake-Speed set
252+ Atk Silk Scarf Huge Power Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Latios: 297-349 (81.5 - 95.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Slaking Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Latios: 306-360 (84 - 98.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Draco Plate Mold Breaker Dialga Judgment vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Arceus: 333-393 (75 - 88.5%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ SpA Draco Plate Dialga Judgment vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Regigigas: 354-417 (83.4 - 98.3%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ SpA Draco Plate Dialga Judgment vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Slaking: 492-580 (97.6 - 115%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Huge Power Slaking Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Latios: 306-360 (84 - 98.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Draco Plate Mold Breaker Dialga Judgment vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Arceus: 333-393 (75 - 88.5%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ SpA Draco Plate Dialga Judgment vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Regigigas: 354-417 (83.4 - 98.3%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ SpA Draco Plate Dialga Judgment vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Slaking: 492-580 (97.6 - 115%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Prankster Landorus-Therian
Landorus-Therian @ Choice Band
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Nature Power
- Trick
- Protect
- Encore
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Nature Power
- Trick
- Protect
- Encore
For the final member of the team, I wanted another anti sweeper measure alongside the Arceus, so I went with Lando T. Band is there since Trick is busted and you sometimes need the extra damage (like against latios). Protect so you can scout moves after you Trick band, and then decide if they are worth Encoreing.
Replays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5ubers-2526602659?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5ubers-2526052242?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5ubers-2526685672 The team lost here but I feel like it still shows what it does nicely.
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Sample Submission:
Solar System Balance
https://pokepast.es/f55c058f638411a0
THE TEAM
Deo-S is what I would consider the "standard" wg DeoS set, its easy to use, consistent and good (there's a reason wg deoS is so popular) magic coat stops sleep/hazards (which rule this meta with an iron fist) and it uses sub-pass to give a helping hand to the other team members.
And lum Berry to guarantee a sub without sleep getting in the way
I have said multiple times how OP PS-Spirit is and my point still stands, you genuinely need to give uo at least 1 team slot just to deal with this bum, however because I want a competent team I will use him
Now ferrothorn is actually my favourite steel Mbouncer, while ik skarm is the best in being immune to Spikes, i find ferro so much more consistent because of being immune to spore and thus having room for other items that aren't lum Berry
Rayquaza is the 1st of our 3 offensive threats, after wanting a Mbreaker who isn't food for Groudon or landoT I came to realise Rayquaza is that guy, while not as good as latios, Rayquaza is able to use mold breaker without being weak to ghost and dark and being ground immune i feel like Rayquaza is the best mold user in the format (that a discussion for another time)
Now gigas... our main sweeper and our goat, huge power with E-Speed ohkos most of the format (baring wg, ghosts and very bulky mons) and having CC and Sacred fire to hit those bulky mons, with Ssneak to get dmg on Gengar and the like.
And speaking of Gengar he is our final mon, being our 2nd mold breaker gengars job is to be there to hit the faster mons out of rays speed Tier and get more coverage on different bulky mons, being able to hit latios, opponent Gengar and DeoS for super effective damage is quite valuable to say the least and makes for a lovely closing mon to the team.
Thank you for coming to my Ted talk
Solar System Balance
https://pokepast.es/f55c058f638411a0
THE TEAM
Deo-S is what I would consider the "standard" wg DeoS set, its easy to use, consistent and good (there's a reason wg deoS is so popular) magic coat stops sleep/hazards (which rule this meta with an iron fist) and it uses sub-pass to give a helping hand to the other team members.
And lum Berry to guarantee a sub without sleep getting in the way
I have said multiple times how OP PS-Spirit is and my point still stands, you genuinely need to give uo at least 1 team slot just to deal with this bum, however because I want a competent team I will use him
Now ferrothorn is actually my favourite steel Mbouncer, while ik skarm is the best in being immune to Spikes, i find ferro so much more consistent because of being immune to spore and thus having room for other items that aren't lum Berry
Rayquaza is the 1st of our 3 offensive threats, after wanting a Mbreaker who isn't food for Groudon or landoT I came to realise Rayquaza is that guy, while not as good as latios, Rayquaza is able to use mold breaker without being weak to ghost and dark and being ground immune i feel like Rayquaza is the best mold user in the format (that a discussion for another time)
Now gigas... our main sweeper and our goat, huge power with E-Speed ohkos most of the format (baring wg, ghosts and very bulky mons) and having CC and Sacred fire to hit those bulky mons, with Ssneak to get dmg on Gengar and the like.
And speaking of Gengar he is our final mon, being our 2nd mold breaker gengars job is to be there to hit the faster mons out of rays speed Tier and get more coverage on different bulky mons, being able to hit latios, opponent Gengar and DeoS for super effective damage is quite valuable to say the least and makes for a lovely closing mon to the team.
Thank you for coming to my Ted talk
OK, the teams are getting better. There are some twists I would recommend.
Firstly,
magic coat stops sleep/hazards vs And lum Berry to guarantee a sub without sleep getting in the way
There is no reason for this overlap. WG Deoxys should either run Leftovers and then 4th move Taunt/Gastro or Mail and then 4th move Heal, which are much more valuable than Lum. This Deoxys set has no longevity and while Magic Coat is strong on everything, Deoxys suffers from 4th move syndrome like ORAS Giratina, hence, it is 99% of the time not worth using.
Deoxys-Speed @ Leftovers / Mail
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Baton Pass
- Spore
- Taunt / Gastro Acid / Recover
Secondly,
- Psycho Shift
- Recover
- Substitute
- U-turn
Can you explain the reason behind Shed Shell Psycho Shift + Sub?
Thirdly,
ferro so much more consistent because of being immune to spore
Gen 5 Grass is actually not immune to Spore. Set looks fine, would probably Skarm tho, and maybe U-Turn / Rapid Spin (depending on Pokestar Spirit set) over Spore.
Next,
Rayquaza NOT improofed. Imp straight up tears apart your team. Would recommend
here. Best Mold.Finally,
Gigas needs Pursuit, due to the reason that mons can simply switch out without ANY PUNISHMENTS, and the best WG, Pokestar Spirit can't be hit by any non-mold move unless you go Scrappy which definitely isn't the approach here. Drop Sacred/CC.
Nothing wrong with Gar. One of the Best Molds anyw.
i've been having lots of fun playing 3ph lately, seems like a very skillful and position based tier due to how you need to constantly dance around bd slaking, spore spam and special attackers while abusing your own. unfortunately not many other people share this opinion to my knowledge (except best CL viola) so i thought i'd share some building tips so people can build better teams and not hate this tier
every single team needs a ghost, period.
without them bd slaking goes from pretty manageable to a nightmare in game that can easily sweep on its own
gengar is also just a great pokemon in general, its spikes and espeed immunity let it come in safely many times throughout a game while fast spore with eruption/water spout ensures it can always do something in-game
explosion is broken lol
i can't count the number of times an opponent's had a dangerous threat in like a ninjask ready to speed pass or a +2 latios that suddenly dies from a move any pokemon can feasibly run. not only is explosion good at shutting down the opponents threats, but it also makes it very difficult to lose momentum in-game, something thats very important when spore makes hard switching very punishing
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3customgame-2539511952-r4c5dyqfdw7f9lynp961ai8ri8ko8bdpw
see this game for example, lycanroc tries to get in offensive and defensive threats like kyogre and skarmory, but I just spam explosion until every problem pokemon is dead and cleanly sweep
sleep talk is practically mandatory on every team to deal with spore spam, without it dealing with pokemon like latios and gengar gets infinitely harder, as they can just spore anything that switches into them and make semi-consistent progress very easily. it also helps that its very hard to counter in-game, as similarly to explosion, anything can run it. my personal favorite user is kyogre since it turns it into a very reliable special wall that can still do its fair share of damage, but anything with enough bulk to tank an espeed or 2 from slaking could feasily use it well
because of how slaking makes up 1/3 to 1/2 of every single team, special attackers have become very good at dismantling teams with tail glow letting them ohko everything except themselves (and blissey ig) after a tail glow and spikes. luckily espeed slaking spam is still a consistent way to out them, but you still need 3 (or 2 with 1 cb espeed) hits to kill so they can easily pick up several kills in a game if you're not careful. for defensive counterplay the only good options are also kyogre and latios, latios is a semi-reliable kyogre counter but dies to shadow ball gengar while kyogre hard walls gengar but can't do much to opposing kyogre without thunder or latios outside of spam spore. you might have noticed that nothing walls latios, nothing really beats this outside of simply pressuring it and putting it into KO range of espeed
this mon is probably broken when optimized, but its never been a problem for me since it just gets nuked or boomed on before speed pass threats can do anything. do keep in mind that bd slaking and tail glow latios/kyogre with a speed boost are nigh unstoppable as they can ohko neutral nature slaking from full, so you have to play very cautiously around it
https://pokepast.es/7698a6b6fd0af62b
i'm around 15-2 with this team in challenges (THANKS LYCANROC
) and its been very reliable, boom + sleep talk spam shuts down most forms of offensive pressure early while kyogre, groudon and cb slak ensure i can always check my opponents threats while setting up the right weather in the former twos case. you might be wondering why i'm running 2 different weather setters when my team clearly wants sun, thats because kyogre is the only reliable special wall in the tier that beats gengar, which makes it very useful on any team in this tier
hopefully this post taught you something about 3ph, i'd like to see more people pick up this tier, its pretty fun to play and its not that hard to build teams for it
every single team needs a ghost, period.
without them bd slaking goes from pretty manageable to a nightmare in game that can easily sweep on its own
gengar is also just a great pokemon in general, its spikes and espeed immunity let it come in safely many times throughout a game while fast spore with eruption/water spout ensures it can always do something in-game
explosion is broken lol
i can't count the number of times an opponent's had a dangerous threat in like a ninjask ready to speed pass or a +2 latios that suddenly dies from a move any pokemon can feasibly run. not only is explosion good at shutting down the opponents threats, but it also makes it very difficult to lose momentum in-game, something thats very important when spore makes hard switching very punishing
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3customgame-2539511952-r4c5dyqfdw7f9lynp961ai8ri8ko8bdpw
see this game for example, lycanroc tries to get in offensive and defensive threats like kyogre and skarmory, but I just spam explosion until every problem pokemon is dead and cleanly sweep
sleep talk is practically mandatory on every team to deal with spore spam, without it dealing with pokemon like latios and gengar gets infinitely harder, as they can just spore anything that switches into them and make semi-consistent progress very easily. it also helps that its very hard to counter in-game, as similarly to explosion, anything can run it. my personal favorite user is kyogre since it turns it into a very reliable special wall that can still do its fair share of damage, but anything with enough bulk to tank an espeed or 2 from slaking could feasily use it well
because of how slaking makes up 1/3 to 1/2 of every single team, special attackers have become very good at dismantling teams with tail glow letting them ohko everything except themselves (and blissey ig) after a tail glow and spikes. luckily espeed slaking spam is still a consistent way to out them, but you still need 3 (or 2 with 1 cb espeed) hits to kill so they can easily pick up several kills in a game if you're not careful. for defensive counterplay the only good options are also kyogre and latios, latios is a semi-reliable kyogre counter but dies to shadow ball gengar while kyogre hard walls gengar but can't do much to opposing kyogre without thunder or latios outside of spam spore. you might have noticed that nothing walls latios, nothing really beats this outside of simply pressuring it and putting it into KO range of espeed
this mon is probably broken when optimized, but its never been a problem for me since it just gets nuked or boomed on before speed pass threats can do anything. do keep in mind that bd slaking and tail glow latios/kyogre with a speed boost are nigh unstoppable as they can ohko neutral nature slaking from full, so you have to play very cautiously around it
https://pokepast.es/7698a6b6fd0af62b
i'm around 15-2 with this team in challenges (THANKS LYCANROC
) and its been very reliable, boom + sleep talk spam shuts down most forms of offensive pressure early while kyogre, groudon and cb slak ensure i can always check my opponents threats while setting up the right weather in the former twos case. you might be wondering why i'm running 2 different weather setters when my team clearly wants sun, thats because kyogre is the only reliable special wall in the tier that beats gengar, which makes it very useful on any team in this tierhopefully this post taught you something about 3ph, i'd like to see more people pick up this tier, its pretty fun to play and its not that hard to build teams for it
Almost agree with this. I say almost because there are a handful of options to answering Slaking that are not Ghost-type, although none of them work quite as effectively as Gengar.
every single team needs a ghost, period.
Groudon+6 252 Atk Slaking Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Groudon: 346-408 (85.6 - 100.9%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
Believe it or not, Groudon is able to tank an Extreme Speed from post-Belly Drum Slaking. This only really works versus non-Adamant sets, so I wouldn’t recommend relying on just Groudon to answer Slaking, but it can definitely work in a pinch, as long as you keep Spikes off (and the opposing Slaking isn’t Adamant).
Aerodactyl+6 252+ Atk Slaking Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Aerodactyl: 314-370 (86.2 - 101.6%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
You have to get a safe switch, but Aerodactyl can help out versus post-Belly Drum Slaking if it runs Haze. I’ve never actually tried the set myself, so I don’t know how good it is, but it is something possibly worth trying on something like a Sand team, where Gengar wouldn’t work as well.
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Intimidate usersNone of these three can actually tank a post-Belly Drum Extreme Speed, but the Attack drop from Intimidate will mean something else (like Groudon or your own Slaking) will be able to come in after the sac and be able to tank an Extreme Speed (or in Groudon’s case, be able to more comfortably tank an Extreme Speed). I’ve tried Salamence, and it’s okay, but again, I don’t really know how to play ADV, so I could have just been using it poorly.
/ 
/ 
Steel-typesI personally think Steel-types are interesting in ADV, since they can essentially force post-Belly Drum Slaking to click Superpower, which would allow something else (like your own Slaking or Groudon) to take / more comfortably take a hit and revenge-KO. Maybe a set of Sleep Talk + Whirlwind / Haze could be run, and you hard switch them in as Belly Drum is clicked? Someone better than I would probably know better.
Omastar252+ SpA Mystic Water Omastar Surf vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Slaking in Rain: 266-313 (52.7 - 62.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Omastar is kind of cool- with Rain and Mystic Water, Surf will deal over 50% to Slaking, and since you have Swift Swim, your opponent will be forced into clicking a resisted Extreme Speed (or be KOed without doing anything). If I remember correctly, Omastar tends to run a set of Surf / Ice Beam / Tail Glow / Sleep Talk with Mystic Water, so you will have to play very carefully around Spore. I don’t really have much else to say here, to be honest.
TyranitarTyranitar is probably my favorite Slaking answer out of all of the ones I have mentioned. Similar to the previously-mentioned Steel-types, Tyranitar forces Slaking to click Superpower, since it easily tanks Extreme Speed and Shadow Ball. However, Tyranitar will also set up Sand, which means Slaking is put on a timer. Add on Protect to further stall out turns, and Slaking is put in a rather uncomfortable spot. Tyranitar also enables my favorite teamstyle- Sand, although it does need to fight weather wars with Kyogre and Groudon, neither of which it wants to switch in on.
I would play a lot more gen3ph myself, but I honestly never felt like I was good enough at the game to really understand how to properly play the format. That being said, I’m really glad gen3ph has been given another chance, even if it is only by it gaining one player.
Yes, another tier list.
S Rank
S
1.
Arceus-Fairy: Pink color creature tops the tier again. Best looking Arceus forme without a doubt.
S-
1.
Arceus-Ghost: Purple color looks very cool. Furthermore, it tricks low ladder people into clicking a Shadow Ball into it.
2.
Arceus-Dark: Good color contrast with the original white color of Arceus. Looks really good.
3.
Arceus: Simple enough. I like it.
A Rank
A+
1.
Arceus-Water: Very good in SVPH. I am biased. No other reasoning needed. NEXT.
2.
Arceus-Flying: Being able to fly as an Arceus is so cool. It can fly while others are stuck at ground. So cool.
A
1.
Arceus-Ground: The golden brown color is actually pretty sleek. Good color scheme.
2.
Arceus-Rock: It's just a slightly darker version of the normal one. It's fine. Solid.
A-
1.
Arceus-Electric: The vibrant yellow looks like a banana. I like.
2.
Arceus-Psychic: The pink is decent, but it's not as rich as the Fairy-type's pink. It's okay.
3.
Arceus-Steel: Looks decent. Looks desaturated from the normal one. Call me weird. But I kinda like it.
B Rank
B+
1.
Arceus-Grass: It's a natural green. I just don't like it that much. No reason given.
2.
Arceus-Ice: It's rather clean and looks decent. Compared to the other Blue Arceuses tho, doesn't look as good.
3.
Arceus-Dragon: I like purple. But this purple doesn't look that great. Still better than
tho.B
1.
Arceus-Poison: It's purple. Not a good look, compared to
's purple. It's still purple tho, so it's not last.2.
Arceus-Fighting: It's a muddy, ugly brownish-red. Not last because it is still representative of the Fighting Type.
B-
1.
Arceus-Bug: I hate peas, it looks like pea. I'm a sorry. I hate it.
2.
Arceus-Fire: It's orange. Not a cool, molten lava orange. Absolutely AWFUL color scheme.
All in all, if you disagree. You're wrong. Bye
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;-; Welp your friendly B2W2 Ph leader here! just to inform you that Samples submissions for B2W2 are open! post your teams HELL, WASTE, MY, TIME! JUST PROVIDE a VALID REASONING for the Set! anything thats, blatantly bad or nonviable will be ignored or removed! (Please bare with me on my typing ;-;) I WILL EMPHASIZE ON VALID AND VIABLE if it's not valid or viable dont bother posting it! thank you! ALSO! WHILE IM AT IT WHY NOT A TWO TEAM DANG TEAM DUMB! WOO The first one is https://pokepast.es/b859fd1ea040f21e Kyuw balance WIP team! meaning if there's something on this team you dont like change it I dont really care! basically this team has you set up with darkyi then then like probably in most cases let No Guard do it's thing and be a annoying little wincon! if thats not doable! use Kyuw I'll tell you now THIS TEAM HATES TSPIKES try at all costs to keep them off the playing field SECOND TEAM! ALSO MY SECOND ONE! IS MY FAV TEAM IVE MADE SO FAR! https://pokepast.es/fc080f89245004dc this one is pretty fun! it has Stag Terrakion! a fun way to trap an opposing on set up dialga or normal type mons like gigas! it's also coverage so water/poison mons like Tentacruel dont wall u it's also leaf blade for thing's like Kyogre! it's a bit harder to pilot also Ill say it again please be patient on my grammar i'm aware it probably sucks but be patient. but anyways the second team works better when played defensively because mindlessly sacking stuff will cost you the game!
RULES FOR THE SAMPLES SUBMISSIONS!
1. One Team per a person! if you post something nonviable and want to change it that's your fault no going back!
2. EACH TEAM NEEDS A SMALL DESCRIPTION TO FOLLOW! NO POSTING A TEAM AND LEAVING IT THERE YOU NEED TO DESCRIBE THE TEAM!
3. NO ABUSING THIS TO SLANDER GEN 5 SAID POSTS WILL BE IGNORED
4. BE RESPECTFUL ABOUT OTHER'S POSTS! PROVIDE CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM! JUST SAYING "THIS IS BAD DELETE IT" PROVIDES NOTHING!
5. A TEAM HAS TO BE VIABLE IN THE META! POSTING BLATANTLY BAD TEAMS THAT CANNOT HOLD UP IN THE META AT ALL IS NOT ALLOWED!
Have Questions? contact me VIA Smogon, Discord also note! Smogon Rules also apply! joke teams that are NOT sample submission are allowed obviously theres nothing against a good ol joke team BUT PLEASE SAY ITS A JOKE TEAM TO AVOID CONFUSION!
RULES FOR THE SAMPLES SUBMISSIONS!
1. One Team per a person! if you post something nonviable and want to change it that's your fault no going back!
2. EACH TEAM NEEDS A SMALL DESCRIPTION TO FOLLOW! NO POSTING A TEAM AND LEAVING IT THERE YOU NEED TO DESCRIBE THE TEAM!
3. NO ABUSING THIS TO SLANDER GEN 5 SAID POSTS WILL BE IGNORED
4. BE RESPECTFUL ABOUT OTHER'S POSTS! PROVIDE CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM! JUST SAYING "THIS IS BAD DELETE IT" PROVIDES NOTHING!
5. A TEAM HAS TO BE VIABLE IN THE META! POSTING BLATANTLY BAD TEAMS THAT CANNOT HOLD UP IN THE META AT ALL IS NOT ALLOWED!
Have Questions? contact me VIA Smogon, Discord also note! Smogon Rules also apply! joke teams that are NOT sample submission are allowed obviously theres nothing against a good ol joke team BUT PLEASE SAY ITS A JOKE TEAM TO AVOID CONFUSION!
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