Speaking of storage, I guess we have to deal with the headache of transferring mons back and fourth? I wanted it to be like battle revolution where all it does is clone the pokemon from your home, but we gotta deal with changing movesets and evs, and you have to be careful of alternate or changing forms or oh god now you lost all your evs and have to grind out to fix it again.
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Pokémon Day 2026 - Pokemon Winds and Waves coming 2027! Champions April 2026
- Thread starter DHR-107
- Start date
I have the feeling this art was actually made by an adult.
So much about the trailer was offputting especially the creepy smile of the guy with the Chestnaut. Completely unnecessary.
That's exactly what they are doing. You are just cloning your Pokémon like in Battle Revolution. You clone the Pokémon to Champions and whatever stat changes you made there stays there unless you re send the same Pokémon in a different form. (I.e. Cloning over a Rotom-Fan and changing its stats but then trying to clone that same Rotom but it is now in its Rotom-Mow form)
This doesn't add up.
Champions was shown to have EV and moveset modification in-game.
Also note that it's not a "transfer" to Home, it has a different text and they specifically mention that you are able to "undergo temporary modifications" while on Champions.
https://www.pokemon.com/uk/pokemon-news/pokemon-champions-is-coming-to-nintendo-switch-in-april-2026
So what that means is (likely) that you can transfer a Pokemon to Home, have it "visit" champions, Champions will copy the pokemon data but you are able to customize it, if you customize it however those changes remain for Champions and will not be reflected if you take the pokemon back to Home to another game.
Practical example:
- I have a timid 252/252 spd and spatk Tapu Koko which knows Thunder / Volt Switch / Thunder Bolt / Dazzling Gleam
- I transfer it to Champions
- The meta now wants me to use Physical Tapu koko, I change it to jolly with 252 atk instead of spatk, and teach it Play Rough and Volt Tackle over Thunder and Dazzling Gleam
- If I move back that Tapu Koko to Home or Sword/Shield, that Tapu Koko will be back being a timid 252 spatk with the 4 special moves.
- If I then move that Tapu Koko to Champions again it'll either (currently unconfirmed either directions) have the last stats it had in Champions (so physical moveset and EV) or be imported again anew with the stats it had in SwSh/Home.
i rly hope champs is any good... i think that the visiting thing is odd though
Ledian, Carnivine and Swellow are finally going to get moveset updates since Ultra Sun & Ultra MoonView attachment 812182
These are all the currently-known Pokemon for Winds and Waves (another generation of Toxapex, fucking end me)
I think Showdown isn't cooked lolWas double checking serebii for something and saw a note that caught my eye about permanent recruitment costing 2500 instead of 1000. And that sounded interesting so while checking the site...
This is still there. It was also the first one we saw when twe found out we could do this last year.
However....later down the page, when it talks about tickets...
Not only does Whimsicott here cost 2500 the entire UI is different. I think they jacked up the prices in the time between they showed the game off lmao
Japan avoided this incongruity by getting rid of the old screens entirely.
Also surprisingly the japanese website doesn't show off the battle pass at all either. I think the only way we know about it is through twitter and the reference to the (Japanese-only) Dragonite gift. Why is the information roll out for this game so segregated
also btw the shop refresh thing is 1 ticket = 1 hour OR spending 5000 VP (I presume the price goes down as time passes) to reroll
folks i don't think this game is going to do everything people wanted it to do wrt competitive Pokemon. call it a hunch!
What matters is less about if Showdown is better and more about what GF wants.
Do we here think that GF is dedicated enough to Champions long term that they would DMCA Showdown down the road if it proved to be insurmountable competition (which like... yeah it will be lol)? Or do we here think they'd just give it up and let Showdown win, or just let them co-exist?
I think that, and perhaps this will be something to look back and sigh at later, if they wanted to kill showdown it'd just have been killed when they announced it.
If nothing else what Champions focuses on vs what Showdown allows is pretty fundamentally different and at the end of the day even if every single person tries Champions and goes ew gross and goes to Showdown it wont matter. Champions is the way to play the game professionally.
I'll admit if what I say is wrong but, personally: I think its hubris to think The Pokemon Company and GameFreak consider Showdown a threat, let alone even know it exists (at least what its exact name is).
Because I don't think Champions was made because they exactly wanted to, rather it was made because they thought it was necessary due to a building problem. That building problem: Each Gen introducing more and more Pokemon, which means more and more Pokemon that are being left out of the game. And not just individual species (which includes Forms, Regional Variants, and Legendaries/Mythicals/Special Pokemon) but also generation gimmicks such as Mega Pokemon and Gigantamax (and the few forms you can only access via those mechanics like Ultra Necrozma). There's also Moves and Abilities which are now being left out either due to the Pokemon knowing them aren't in the game or GF felt they were redundant for whatever reason (and who knows if Items ever start to reach that level). GF had already "solved" the problem of storing these Pokemon through the generations with the dedicated creation of Pokemon HOME, but now many Pokemon are just sitting their in HOME waiting until a Gen has them in it (and some are now waiting for multiple gens).
GF didn't create Champions to "compete" with a free battle sim, they made it so that all the Pokemon in HOME and every mechanic they made could be used in PvP battles. Now don't be confused, Pokemon Works (the developer which is a joint venture between The Pokemon Company and ILCA, receiving some help from GameFreak) are going to certainly put their weight behind making it (and probably find ways to add in microtransactions, certainly lessons learned from TCG Pocket are going to come into play here). However I believe that to The Pokemon Company and GameFreak, Pokemon Champions is primarily a solution to a problem that they could also maybe use to generate some side revenue (either enough to keep up with meintenance or, if more, maybe fund some other small projects).
As for Showdown? It's existance will remain as it always has: A place where most players will test out their teams. Teams which, once satisfied, they'll recreate in Champions where they'll then really participate in PvP battles to earn whatever points/credits that game will offer. And I'm still sure there will be things you can do in Showdown that'll be limited in Champions simply because The Pokemon Company would want rules, order, and control on what goes on and what's allowed.
Because I don't think Champions was made because they exactly wanted to, rather it was made because they thought it was necessary due to a building problem. That building problem: Each Gen introducing more and more Pokemon, which means more and more Pokemon that are being left out of the game. And not just individual species (which includes Forms, Regional Variants, and Legendaries/Mythicals/Special Pokemon) but also generation gimmicks such as Mega Pokemon and Gigantamax (and the few forms you can only access via those mechanics like Ultra Necrozma). There's also Moves and Abilities which are now being left out either due to the Pokemon knowing them aren't in the game or GF felt they were redundant for whatever reason (and who knows if Items ever start to reach that level). GF had already "solved" the problem of storing these Pokemon through the generations with the dedicated creation of Pokemon HOME, but now many Pokemon are just sitting their in HOME waiting until a Gen has them in it (and some are now waiting for multiple gens).
GF didn't create Champions to "compete" with a free battle sim, they made it so that all the Pokemon in HOME and every mechanic they made could be used in PvP battles. Now don't be confused, Pokemon Works (the developer which is a joint venture between The Pokemon Company and ILCA, receiving some help from GameFreak) are going to certainly put their weight behind making it (and probably find ways to add in microtransactions, certainly lessons learned from TCG Pocket are going to come into play here). However I believe that to The Pokemon Company and GameFreak, Pokemon Champions is primarily a solution to a problem that they could also maybe use to generate some side revenue (either enough to keep up with meintenance or, if more, maybe fund some other small projects).
As for Showdown? It's existance will remain as it always has: A place where most players will test out their teams. Teams which, once satisfied, they'll recreate in Champions where they'll then really participate in PvP battles to earn whatever points/credits that game will offer. And I'm still sure there will be things you can do in Showdown that'll be limited in Champions simply because The Pokemon Company would want rules, order, and control on what goes on and what's allowed.
Which makes it funny a number of Pokemon will have to continue to wait, incidentally.
In fairness, there's a larger backlog initially and it's reasonable to expect later gens will be implemented faster since they're just incremental increases. Though I'd say that issue is also pretty self-inflicted, this really should have been rolled out as soon as they stopped supporting everything in the core games.
Regarding your example of moving Tapu Koko back to Champions again after having made it physical there, the sixth bullet point in the official disclaimer suggests that it would continue to be physical in Champions while remaining special in HOME: "but if the same Pokémon visit Pokémon Champions again, any training they received will be saved." It might be that HOME will create a Champions game profile for a Pokémon to keep its edits for when it visits Champions again, like it does for other games, which might explain the seventh bullet point which I'll cover next.
Many are noting the strange caveat of a Pokémon re-visiting Champions while in a different form and losing its edits that had been made there. I think this decision had to do with the sometimes-differing movepools between forms, so that a form doesn't have an impossible move. For example, taking a Rotom-Heat with Overheat into Champions, sending it back to HOME and to a game, changing it to Rotom-Wash, moving it back to HOME and then sending it back to Champions to potentially have a Rotom-Wash with Overheat because it was part of the moveset that Champions last recorded. I'm sure they could have made it so that form-changing Pokémon had movepool lists that are internally defined in order to prevent this, but there would probably be oversights down the line and so they took the simpler, future-proofed path.
I wonder how Champions will decide to import a Pokémon's moveset from HOME when a Pokémon can have several game profiles there, possibly with completely different movesets for each game. Either you'll be able to pick from one of the profiles during the initial import process, otherwise it might just select what HOME recorded as the last game that the Pokémon visited (which will be the moveset displayed by default when you check the Pokémon after logging into HOME). For Pokémon that cannot manually change forms, it might be best to already have the Pokémon ready with its currently-optimal EVs and moveset in HOME so that the only potential edit you would need to make after the import is adding a missing stat point.
Considering that Champions is supposed to be the competitive base, the most likely scenario is that it'll import the latest generation moveset the Pokemon has available (or create it anew if it doesn't have any yet, es fresh moved from Bank, a Legends game, or Go)
The presence of expensive f2p options (aka, buy with grinded currency vs just buy with battle pass) isn't surprising me in the slightest.
From what I know, the TCG game is really expensive and rough for f2ps as well (very similar to Master Duel iirc) and yet you don't have another option if you want to play the official game.
Champions'll be same, if you want to play VGC, it's that or that.
Also personal speculation, people who actually own the games should be able to skip the "paid" part entirely since they can just use the pokemon from Home and they usually don't really have much reason to keep those Pokemon in the actual games.
This is likely so they keep having VGC players buy the games. If it was realistic to obtain a full roster in short time as "pure f2p", then all the people who buy the games (or buy both versions of a gen) only for the competitive scene would stop doing so, resulting in a overall net monetary loss.
The footnote says if a move isnt available you have to train over it, so I think that it'll copy over the moveset (ala SWSH) and then adhere to the latest. SV in this case. I suspect any Z-A stragglers will be given a freshened up moveset as if they were in SV. Then they'll just update the available moves to WiWa when that comes out.
Agreed it's not surprising (though the battle pass is a bit...iffy on what it offers on the paid track).
It's worth noting that "F2P TCG" is simply not a thing at all. Everything is pay, because it's a physical game. As far as TCG prices go its not cheap-cheap to just get what you need (even with scalping) but it's sometimes cheaper than other card games, but at the end of the day it's a game based around buying physical cards.
TCG Live doesn't enter this equation at all. It's just a client to play games on. I think there are ways to earn championship points on it but it doesn't really have big turn out because the client sucks and isn't even supported in Japan and also there's no monetization* (outside of like...canada, for some reason...and even then that might've just been in TCG Online). The one singular good thing people have to say about the client is that it just dumps junk on you, by the way. Hell no one cares about it to the point that you can get a stack of code cards for like $2.
And if you mean Pocket, well, that is its own thing without a real competitive circuit. Everything about it is very different from the real TCG, likely by design (contrast with TCGL)
Gosh I can't wait to see how expensive everything is itemized. We've still not seen the item shop and what those prices are, either. You know those mega stones are going to be a pretty penny
And we still don't know payouts either! I think even the battle pass image we show just shows tickets.
*It is the general belief that if they wanted this to be a real client, they would monetize it and release it in Japan and TPC (non-i) would be invovled
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Preliminary Pokemon Winds & Waves checklist:
Color code:
- Green: This Pokémon is present in the Generation X Pokedex.
- Light Green: This Pokémon is likely to be present in the game code.
New Confirmations:
- Pichu, Pikachu, Raichu,
- Oddish, Gloom, Vileplume, Belossom,
- Krabby, Kingler,
- Tangela, Tangrowth,
- Ledyba, Ledian,
- Slugma, Magcargo,
- Corsola, (Cursola),
- Taillow, Swellow,
- Wingull, Pelipper,
- Wailmer, Wailord,
- Duskull, Dusclops, Dusknoir,
- Tropius,
- Carnivine,
- Finneon, Lumineon,
- Tympole, Palpitoad, Seismitoad,
- Frillish, Jellicent,
- Tynamo, Eelektrik, Eelektross,
- Mareanie, Toxapex,
- Sandygast, Palossand,
- Sizzlipede, Centiskorch,
- Nymble, Lokix.
Unsurprisingly, Wingull line is present again. You seemingly can’t have a regional Pokedex without these guys anymore. Luckily, this Dex will also contain several Pokemon that rarely show up, like Kingler, Swellow, Tropius, and Carnivine. I wonder if Purrugly will be present this time – this Pokemon is pretty infamous for never leaving its home region. Eelektross had a pretty long dry spell, but that’s no longer the case - WiWa will be its third game in a row.
Given the series history, Cursola is likely absent from the Regional Pokedex, while still being present in the game's code. It’s possible that Galarian Corsola is a gift from an NPC, just like Galarian Meowth in Paldea.
Hmmmmmm….
This really makes me wonder… could we possibly be getting a Sound type?
On one hand, this thing is designed very similarly to the other Rotom Forms. In fact, it has the same vibe as Regidrago, Regieleki, and Enamorus. The vibe of a new member of a group released several generations later ( If it was created back in Generation IV it probably wouldn’t have a music note on its lightning bolt, and it would lack the panel present on its middle section). It also has the color scheme of a playable Rotom Appliance, unlike, say, the RotomDex or the Rotom Drone.
On the other hand, it is clearly drawn in the Pokopia artstyle with this characteristic outline. It’s also clearly identified as an NPC character - DJ Rotom, and I find it to be extremely unlikely that Tangrowth cosplaying as a Pokemon Professor or Greedent with a chef’s hat will ever be playable in Mainline Games, so it would be strange if this one were an exception. Then again, its Form is also stated to be “Stereo Rotom”…
While in the past it was perfectly plausible to add a Sound type to the game, the chances of that happening became slimmer and slimmer with each passing Generation. Nowadays, a Sound type has practically everything stacked against it. There is also no gameplay-related reason to add a new type to the game, as there is no oppressively dominant type like Psychic or Dragon that would desperately need a nerf.
It’s possible that rather than being a ray of hope for a Sound type, it is instead a final nail in its coffin. GameFreak will never make a Sound type, and because they will never do it, it is therefore perfectly fine to use this design in a Spin-off title without worrying about ever wanting to use it in the future. Sadly, it’s probably the most likely option…
Or maybe that Hatsune Miku collab really gave them a new flash of inspiration.
Color code:
- Green: This Pokémon is present in the Generation X Pokedex.
- Light Green: This Pokémon is likely to be present in the game code.
New Confirmations:
- Pichu, Pikachu, Raichu,
- Oddish, Gloom, Vileplume, Belossom,
- Krabby, Kingler,
- Tangela, Tangrowth,
- Ledyba, Ledian,
- Slugma, Magcargo,
- Corsola, (Cursola),
- Taillow, Swellow,
- Wingull, Pelipper,
- Wailmer, Wailord,
- Duskull, Dusclops, Dusknoir,
- Tropius,
- Carnivine,
- Finneon, Lumineon,
- Tympole, Palpitoad, Seismitoad,
- Frillish, Jellicent,
- Tynamo, Eelektrik, Eelektross,
- Mareanie, Toxapex,
- Sandygast, Palossand,
- Sizzlipede, Centiskorch,
- Nymble, Lokix.
Unsurprisingly, Wingull line is present again. You seemingly can’t have a regional Pokedex without these guys anymore. Luckily, this Dex will also contain several Pokemon that rarely show up, like Kingler, Swellow, Tropius, and Carnivine. I wonder if Purrugly will be present this time – this Pokemon is pretty infamous for never leaving its home region. Eelektross had a pretty long dry spell, but that’s no longer the case - WiWa will be its third game in a row.
Given the series history, Cursola is likely absent from the Regional Pokedex, while still being present in the game's code. It’s possible that Galarian Corsola is a gift from an NPC, just like Galarian Meowth in Paldea.
Hmmmmmm….
This really makes me wonder… could we possibly be getting a Sound type?
On one hand, this thing is designed very similarly to the other Rotom Forms. In fact, it has the same vibe as Regidrago, Regieleki, and Enamorus. The vibe of a new member of a group released several generations later ( If it was created back in Generation IV it probably wouldn’t have a music note on its lightning bolt, and it would lack the panel present on its middle section). It also has the color scheme of a playable Rotom Appliance, unlike, say, the RotomDex or the Rotom Drone.
On the other hand, it is clearly drawn in the Pokopia artstyle with this characteristic outline. It’s also clearly identified as an NPC character - DJ Rotom, and I find it to be extremely unlikely that Tangrowth cosplaying as a Pokemon Professor or Greedent with a chef’s hat will ever be playable in Mainline Games, so it would be strange if this one were an exception. Then again, its Form is also stated to be “Stereo Rotom”…
While in the past it was perfectly plausible to add a Sound type to the game, the chances of that happening became slimmer and slimmer with each passing Generation. Nowadays, a Sound type has practically everything stacked against it. There is also no gameplay-related reason to add a new type to the game, as there is no oppressively dominant type like Psychic or Dragon that would desperately need a nerf.
It’s possible that rather than being a ray of hope for a Sound type, it is instead a final nail in its coffin. GameFreak will never make a Sound type, and because they will never do it, it is therefore perfectly fine to use this design in a Spin-off title without worrying about ever wanting to use it in the future. Sadly, it’s probably the most likely option…
Or maybe that Hatsune Miku collab really gave them a new flash of inspiration.
To be fair, there are some signs that hint at these Pokopia special mons making it into Gen X or the competitive scene.
The first one is GF being involved in Pokopia's development, which is rare for a spin-off game. They tend to add new playable Pokémon or forms in every Pokémon game they have been working on except for HGSS - which saw Peaky Ear Pichu being locked there.
Second and most importantly, Treehouse gameplay has shown a Home-like icon for Professor Tangrowth, so, why would they have made such a sprite for it, if it was not transferable or obtainable outside Pokopia?
Based on this, my guess is all Professor Tangrowth, Mosslax, Chef Greedent, etc. will have alternate forms which will be playable in Gen X or Champions, just like DJ Rotom is Rotom-Stereo's nick in Pokopia.
However, nothing of this confirms the Sound-type, which I consider really, really unlikely to ever happen. I mean, we have just had a legendary Pokémon with all types on its shell - Terapagos - and there is no way they would have to retcon its design the exact following generation. Rotom-Stereo will most likely be just an Electric/Normal-type mon with access to Boomburst. That's it!
I wonder what the implications for battling in WIWA is with champions around.
There's a chance online battling or even the battle structure gets reworked for the game (ZA style) while traditional battling stays in champions, otherwise it'd be really odd to have VGC hosted on champions rather than the current gen with the new regional roster.
Unless they fully intend for 2027 release date to be for skipping 2026 worlds and giving them enough time to update champions+home during the year 2027 before worlds (updating champions and home few months after a February release, followed by worlds in late august or september.)
____
Rotom has this habit of getting new forms that aren't playable in the tradional sense.
I really doubt this is meant to be a literal new rotom form as we know them over just "another feature we decided to tie rotom in" like they've been with the SWSH bike, pokedex, and your fucking cell phone. I might be missing something else. Ipod rotom wouldn't be unexpected but it would be cool if it was a feature more practical than just changing the battle theme in a specific location.
There's a chance online battling or even the battle structure gets reworked for the game (ZA style) while traditional battling stays in champions, otherwise it'd be really odd to have VGC hosted on champions rather than the current gen with the new regional roster.
Unless they fully intend for 2027 release date to be for skipping 2026 worlds and giving them enough time to update champions+home during the year 2027 before worlds (updating champions and home few months after a February release, followed by worlds in late august or september.)
____
Hmmmmmm….
This really makes me wonder… could we possibly be getting a Sound type?
On one hand, this thing is designed very similarly to the other Rotom Forms. In fact, it has the same vibe as Regidrago, Regieleki, and Enamorus. The vibe of a new member of a group released several generations later ( If it was created back in Generation IV it probably wouldn’t have a music note on its lightning bolt, and it would lack the panel present on its middle section). It also has the color scheme of a playable Rotom Appliance, unlike, say, the RotomDex or the Rotom Drone.
On the other hand, it is clearly drawn in the Pokopia artstyle with this characteristic outline. It’s also clearly identified as an NPC character - DJ Rotom, and I find it to be extremely unlikely that Tangrowth cosplaying as a Pokemon Professor or Greedent with a chef’s hat will ever be playable in Mainline Games, so it would be strange if this one were an exception. Then again, its Form is also stated to be “Stereo Rotom”…
While in the past it was perfectly plausible to add a Sound type to the game, the chances of that happening became slimmer and slimmer with each passing Generation. Nowadays, a Sound type has practically everything stacked against it. There is also no gameplay-related reason to add a new type to the game, as there is no oppressively dominant type like Psychic or Dragon that would desperately need a nerf.
It’s possible that rather than being a ray of hope for a Sound type, it is instead a final nail in its coffin. GameFreak will never make a Sound type, and because they will never do it, it is therefore perfectly fine to use this design in a Spin-off title without worrying about ever wanting to use it in the future. Sadly, it’s probably the most likely option…
Or maybe that Hatsune Miku collab really gave them a new flash of inspiration.
Rotom has this habit of getting new forms that aren't playable in the tradional sense.
I really doubt this is meant to be a literal new rotom form as we know them over just "another feature we decided to tie rotom in" like they've been with the SWSH bike, pokedex, and your fucking cell phone. I might be missing something else. Ipod rotom wouldn't be unexpected but it would be cool if it was a feature more practical than just changing the battle theme in a specific location.
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It is very unlikely they will touch the core game battle formula. There's no faster way to lose a big fanbase than letting them spend years building up knowledge of an intricate system that mostly carries over from game to game, and then changing everything about it. The turn-based battling system has become a defining hallmark of Pokémon by now. A player could have memorized all the ins and outs of Diamond and Pearl almost 20 years ago, then pick up Scarlet and Violet and find that the Pokémon from back then still have the same base stats and abilities, with the moves behaving almost exactly the same as well. Heck, the damage calculation is still the same too. This consistency over multiple years is what makes each game feel like "the same, but more". Ever more building blocks on the same basic structure. It'd be foolish to throw that away. Experimenting with the basic battling style is a matter for side games.
Likewise, having a different battling system in VGC than in the main series games would be a recipe for disaster. How could new players even begin to get into preparing for VGC, using games where Pokémon behave entirely differently?
It would need a new evolution and Quiver Dance for a chance to be viable.
yeah I don't really understand the desire for Sound as its own distinct type when I think its already pretty intertwined with Normal nowadays. I think it is fine as a sub-type category of moves. also electric/normal with levitate and boomburst would be dope.
also it would be really funny if the pokopia greedent getting added to gen 10 is how we get normal/steel to happen
I hope so, Lumineon is like the poster child for Pokémon that need a giant buff to be notable in any way whatsoever.
Okay, that's actually Ledian, but still, Lumineon gets second billing on that poster.
Because it was easier to make sprites for the probably less than 20 new guys that match an existing style that all other Pokémon in the game already have than to make new ones for all of them. Barring the Legends games using XD/Colo style headshots those sprites have basically become the default modern PC/party sprites.
I could see ghost pikachu, mossy snorlax, and the rotom boombox be added but the other ones are just so odd or they are evil (smeargle)
I really cannot imagine them adding in professor tangrowth or the cook greedent, those absolutely do feel like exclusive to pokopia. also both kind of remind me of dragon quest npcs (this game is essentially dragon quest builders anyway lol)
I really cannot imagine them adding in professor tangrowth or the cook greedent, those absolutely do feel like exclusive to pokopia. also both kind of remind me of dragon quest npcs (this game is essentially dragon quest builders anyway lol)
What type would Rotom Boombox even be?
I doubt its Sound since Boombox form is coming from a spin-off game and introducing a new type in a spin-off would be bad marketing.
I assume Normal since that’s the closest to a real Sound type and you could easily give Rotom Boomburst in that case.
I doubt its Sound since Boombox form is coming from a spin-off game and introducing a new type in a spin-off would be bad marketing.
I assume Normal since that’s the closest to a real Sound type and you could easily give Rotom Boomburst in that case.