I am ENRAGED at the WORST secondary typing in the ENTIRE FRANCHISE!

When should Smogon add the mod to remove this secondary Typing that enrages me so?


  • Total voters
    12
It should be clear which Generation, Pokémon, and Type I am talking about!

This secondary Typing:
Gives an immunity to a Status Condition in a Tier where virtually no one uses it.
Gives a resistance to a Type that's is barely used offensively.
Would give a resistance to a type to which the Pokémon happens to be immune due to his Primary Type anyway.
It doubles a resistance to a Type that's not used offensively in the Tier.
It gives STAB on a type that only has bad attacks and that hits from the wrong attacking Stat.

But to pay for all those fake advantages it gets two great weaknesses that happen to be the only of his weaknesses that matter!




Why did Gen Ⅰ Gengar get the Poison Type?

No, I won't stand for this! Smogon! I DEMAND that you add a mod to RBY OU that makes it so that Gengar henceforth is pure Ghost Type! I don't care how difficult that is! Make it happen! I won't tolerate Gengar's toxicity any longer!
 
Gengar got the poison typing because Arbok needed a job on wrap teams.
Too bad that Arbok is also a Poison Type and gets beaten by Psychic which any Gengar worth his salt can use.

People are already saying that we should mod RBY more anyway so why not

Actually wait

Jynx Psychic vs. Gengar on a critical hit: 308-362 (95.3 - 112%) -- 71.8% chance to OHKO

keep it
Now that you mention it, that's a good place to put the Poison Type after taking it from Gengar. We just replace Jynx' Psychic Type with it. And the Psychic Type from Jynx then goes onto Gengar. That way we won't have any Types lying around. I would be OK with Gengar being Ghost/Psychic and Jynx being Ice/Poison.
 
I honestly feel like certain Kanto Pokémon were given the Poison typing as a so-called “balance change” that failed in spectacular fashion. Poison’s in a rough spot because it’s weak to both Psychic, one of the best Types in the generation, and Ground, the Type that exists in large part to keep the otherwise broken Electric-Type in check. However, if we look at all of Gen 1’s best Poison-Types, you’ll notice they tend to be the ones with Poison as their secondary typing, not their primary typing. We know from the Flying-Type being exclusively secondary that most Pokémon are given these in a specific order for a certain reason (Example: Normal/Flying as opposed to Flying/Normal for Pidgey and Spearow) so the implication here seems to be that the Poison typing was added to some of these Pokémon later in development, possibly for the sake of giving the newly added Ground-Type more viable targets to hit for super effective damage.
 
Possibly for the sake of giving the newly added Ground-Type more viable targets to hit for super effective damage.
Did you know?
Landorous-T was banned from RBY for how it excellently exploited OU (cleaned up Zapdos and walled Mewtwo)
This is why you'll never see it in any serious RBY discussion; calling for it's unbanning would ruin the tier even moreso than it already is
 
Did you know?
Landorous-T was banned from RBY for how it excellently exploited OU (cleaned up Zapdos and walled Mewtwo)
This is why you'll never see it in any serious RBY discussion; calling for it's unbanning would ruin the tier even moreso than it already is
Landorus is bad at walling Mewtwo. Mewtwo commonly carries Ice Beam. And Rhydon and Golem wall Zapdos better due to high Defences and Flying resistance.

We know from the Flying-Type being exclusively secondary that most Pokémon are given these in a specific order for a certain reason (Example: Normal/Flying as opposed to Flying/Normal for Pidgey and Spearow) so the implication here seems to be that the Poison typing was added to some of these Pokémon later in development,
I think Pidgey and Spearow were given the Bird Type first and the Normal/Flying type later. Normal/Flying seems to be a stand-in for the Bird Type.
 
landorus walls mewtwo if you simply dodge every attack
Is Double Team allowed in Ubers? Maybe if TM05 (the glitch move, not the TM) was allowed. But even then, Mewtwo is faster than Landorus and will Ice Beam him before he gets to do a move. And only glitch Pokémon can learn the move TM05. Landorus does not even check Mewtwo. It's hopeless. Nothing counters Mewtwo. Nothing checks Mewtwo. Mewtwo is the ultimate life form.
 
I honestly feel like certain Kanto Pokémon were given the Poison typing as a so-called “balance change” that failed in spectacular fashion. Poison’s in a rough spot because it’s weak to both Psychic, one of the best Types in the generation, and Ground, the Type that exists in large part to keep the otherwise broken Electric-Type in check. However, if we look at all of Gen 1’s best Poison-Types, you’ll notice they tend to be the ones with Poison as their secondary typing, not their primary typing. We know from the Flying-Type being exclusively secondary that most Pokémon are given these in a specific order for a certain reason (Example: Normal/Flying as opposed to Flying/Normal for Pidgey and Spearow) so the implication here seems to be that the Poison typing was added to some of these Pokémon later in development, possibly for the sake of giving the newly added Ground-Type more viable targets to hit for super effective damage.
This is an interesting idea for Poisons but it doesn't match the data. There are only three primary Poison-types, and two (the Nidos) are fantastic (for in-game, the balancing context that makes sense for RBY's release). Secondary Poison-types range the whole gamut from great (Gengar) to good (Victreebel) to unremarkable (Vileplume) to legendarily awful (Beedrill).

The secondary Poison-types feel unlikely to be a mechanical balancing choice. Many are deeply immersed in Poison flavor-wise, which is a more straightforward reason they got Poison. Tentacruel is a jellyfish, Victreebel is a pitcher plant digesting prey with corrosive acid, Vileplume is based on the corpse flower and spreads toxic pollen, with its pre-evolution Gloom being notoriously stinky. It'd be weird if these weren't poison. You have a 2/3rds chance to never battle an opposing Venusaur or member of its line, so balancing the game around fighting it seems dubious. Venomoth is more fringy, but it reminds us of something else. Of the 7 fully evolved secondary Poison-types, Ground only hits 2 of them super effectively anyway, Gengar and Tentacruel (who threatens Grounds and Rocks in return with fast special Water attacks). All the rest are also Grass- or Bug-type, so they're only neutral to Ground.

Occam's razor tells me that Gengar has Poison because Gastly does, and Gastly has poison because it's a poisonous cloud of gas, and Gengar's poison flavor just ended up weaker for whatever intentional or unintentional reason.

"What secondary type is the worst?" is an interesting question. Gen1 Poison is unique for providing almost no advantages, but at the end of the day, two weaknesses is unfortunate but survivable. If Gengar can't sleep Ground- and Psychic-types, it's unlikely to win 1v1 anyway, since it lacks STAB, is physically frail for Ground-types, and they take Thunderbolt / Psychic well, respectively.

Flying on some Bug-types might be worse. In earlier generations, they often lacked STAB, like Gengar's Poison. It adds three weaknesses, Ice Electric and Rock, which are all usually pretty common offense types, especially Rock in Stealth Rock games. Flying has resistances, but they synergize poorly with Bug's. It's immune to Ground and resists Grass and Fighting, but Bug already resisted these types anyway, so they get less benefit. The only novel advantage is a resistance to Bug, which is really not that useful, especially before Gen4 where Bug-types often lacked useful STAB.

I'll pick Gen4 Vespiquen as a specific one who hates being secondary Flying.

On defense, it's a bulky Pokemon that would really appreciate a helpful type chart to wall Pokemon, stick around, and maybe set up Defend Order. As mentioned, Flying gives two new weaknesses (a total of 5) and makes its Rock weakness 4x, which is especially horrible in Stealth Rock's debut, and only brings one novel resistance in the poor Bug. Access to Roost feels good, but you have Heal Order anyway. Your other Flying support moves are Defog, which doesn't clear hazards on your side yet, and Tailwind, which your 40 Speed self can't use very well.

Your Flying attacks are Air Cutter (requires Pt tutor), Aerial Ace, and Gust – your only Flying move by level. lol!
 
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Is Double Team allowed in Ubers? Maybe if TM05 (the glitch move, not the TM) was allowed. But even then, Mewtwo is faster than Landorus and will Ice Beam him before he gets to do a move. And only glitch Pokémon can learn the move TM05. Landorus does not even check Mewtwo. It's hopeless. Nothing counters Mewtwo. Nothing checks Mewtwo. Mewtwo is the ultimate life form.
(In Gen 1, moves with 100% accuracy can still miss 1/256 of the time.)
 
I’d go as far as to say mega rayquaza in SV littlecup still wouldn’t be as broken as RBY Mewtwo in ubers.

As crazy as that sounds, gen 9 mega ray would still play by the rules of modern gen pokemon. It has type weaknesses, certain attacks will hit it very hard, it takes stealth rock damage, there are items like focus sash to help you play around it, and it obeys the laws of being a pokemon. RBY Mewtwo does not. It is faster, stronger, has better moves, and can boost better than everything else while having no type weaknesses, no items or abilities to play around it, no priority moves, and no pokemon strong enough to hit it hard with neutral damage.
 
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