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RU National Dex RU Metagame Discussion

shark-tank.gif


NatDex RU Shark Tank
EP #23

Last time on Shark Tank: :Glimmora:
Glimmora approached our sharks for funding of their ingenious way to revolutionize Hyper Offense teams via Toxic Spikes. In a shock to most viewers, multiple sharks opted to invest in the project.

Recap of this week on Shark Tank: :Sharpedo:
Mega Sharpedo attempts to secure additional funding after the previous cash flow from a successful investment pitch last year dried up. Here's what the sharks had to say on the matter (Note - Danbear02 was not present for this episode):

LBN: "Sharpedo, you're a good guy. But you're just too toxic when you're on that Mega Evolution grind. I can't possibly fund a project with such a toxic work environment! I'm out!"

Salmonelephant: "Hellooooo guysss :) The doors to the stage is locked can you please let me in? I'm really sorry I'm late." (Note - Security opted to bar him from the stage during a live viewing)

Velcroc: "I can vouch for what LBN is saying here, Mr. S. Us sharks have gotten multiple reports about your workplace hostility, and I simply can't tolerate this type of behavior for a project as expensive as this. I'm out."

Runo: "Hey pal. I loved investing in your Bulky Offense department, but once the focus shifted towards Hyper Offense on top of the workplace toxicity, I could not see myself continuing investment from a moral standpoint now or in the future. I'm out."

Rafadude: "I don't have anything to add that these guys didn't already say, I'm also out!"

db: "..." (Note - db only showed up to work to collect the paycheck and immediately left after the title credits)

Seth: "I'm out, 1.3 Seconds"

After learning that none of the sharks wanted to invest in their project, Sharpedo immediately Mega Evolved and began attacking the nearest unpaid intern. It took a team a 5 Tangrowth, 3 Gligar, and a Choice Band Infernape to restrain them. Afterwards Chief Security Officer dhelmise removed them from the premises and a court order was issued that successfully banned Sharpedonite on Sharpedo in the interest of public safety.

Next time on Shark Tank: :Iron Jugulis:
"Hi my name is Iron Jugulis, and I'm hoping the sharks will invest in my super cool and old fashioned Choice Specs sets while also investing in my Booster Energy sets and hope they also won't violently remove me from the show for behavioral issues."

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Mega Sharpedo is now banned from National Dex RU
Banned for the following reasons:
  • Lost most of its reliable counterplay in tier shifts (Lokix, Mandibuzz, Primarina, Mega Swampert)
  • Most remaining counterplay could not properly answer it due to them being overwhelmed by other threats they needed to check to easily (Togekiss needing to deal with Iron Jugulis, Mega Aggron needing to check Glimmora, Zarude needing to check Polteageist, etc)
  • Most remaining counterplay could not properly threaten it back (Slither Wing, Milotic, Gastrodon)
  • Most remaining counterplay could not properly account for all its coverage combinations (Tapu Bulu, Gligar)
  • Only Tangrowth could truely deal with Mega Sharpedo while being widely applicable
  • Multiple NDRU starters for NDCL expressed support for banning Mega Sharpedo when asked about it ahead of time.

We are continuing to observe other threats such as Iron Jugulis and Polteageist. Council voted on Glimmora as well but did not receive enough support to ban, it is still under observation.
 
Hi, I enjoyed learning this tier for NDCL so I thought I'd post the teams I used and share my opinions on the meta. During NDFL I just blindly got passed teams for however many games I played, but this tour I tried to figure out the tier for myself and ended up building most things I ended up using. I still don't have much experience in this tier, so take everything with a grain of salt I suppose.

W1 vs lb (W) :slither-wing::pidgeot-mega::gligar::slowking::cobalion::cyclizar:
I was busy with holidays this week so I didn't build anything. Interlinked passed me a team and it won. I think starting off the tour with CB slither voltturn probably influenced my building later on, it felt like a very strong and intuitive playstyle despite me not knowing the tier very well at this point. Not much to say about this game, CB Slither carried.

W2 vs Kingler (L) :sceptile-mega::latias::slither-wing::tinkaton::swampert::crobat:
Started building for myself this week, and after asking Interlinked what looked strongest out of the different drafts I had, he recommended this double dragon team with a couple changes (mainly adding swampert > shocks). This game definitely woke me up to how strong HO was. My double on T2 was justifiable, IMO, but didn't work out, which put me behind from the start, and then I lost my Crobat because I didn't consider scarf Bulu at all. I think I played very well throughout the midgame and clawed my way back to a winnable position, but choked a bit on T29 by not going Tinkaton. I probably still would've had to get additional doubles right or get lucky paras, but I would've had much better odds. Another game where CB Slither carried me on its back.

W3 vs seed (W) :glimmora::tapu-bulu::iron-jugulis::oricorio-pom-pom::latias::sharpedo-mega:
I just wanted to use Oricorio this week ngl. It looked good into seed's teams, no one else had been bringing it, and the mon seemed busted to me. It felt difficult to build with, though; I had a hard time fitting good speed control, because you either stack electrics by running Zera (not actually that bad since Ori beats most grounds, but still not ideal), stack rock weaknesses by running Jugulis (also fake speed control), run a fast non-Sharpedo mega (but then you lose HO's best mon!), or slap on a random scarfer. Priority users like Lucario/Digg/etc help the issue but don't solve it entirely, and are not always easy to fit. Bunch of medicore/unfinished HO teams got left in my builder this week. The team I almost loaded was a fun terrain squad that I actually think has some potential, although I'm glad I ended up running the Ori HO instead. I should've popped Z Mystical Fire immediately against Aggron, and I should've gotten another roost with Oricorio on T34, but overall a fine game from me.

W4 vs jawabarat (W) :glimmora::mimikyu::iron-jugulis::cobalion::latias::sharpedo-mega:
Running HO again was kind of a last-minute decision from me this week, I originally wanted to run spikes voltturn like I brought W1. I had a handful of spikes voltturn builds I felt good-but-not-great about, but I ultimately pivoted before the game and ran a HO team I was more confident in. Lead Cobalion is a decent mixup that lets you run offensive Glimmora, leads well into opposing HO, and is generally unexpected. Fast taunt, can self-KO, pretty bulky, not too passive, mon ain't bad. I think I played this game well.

W4 vs mrfraud (W) :manectric-mega::talonflame::diggersby::milotic::tangrowth::cobalion:
Not my favorite team, but it got the job done I guess. Gentlemanned to no Glimmora here. I was debating bringing HO again because I felt like it would be unexpected, having brought it the past two weeks and with no Glimm around. Interlinked recommended to load something safer though. Originally had Krook > Diggersby but he suggested I go with the rabbit. I didn't have much direction in my prep this week, I sorta just wanted to use AV Tangrowth because I thought it was strong. I think this team is a bit passive without spikes or a proper wincon, but the defensive backbone carried me without having to do much work myself. I played well for the first 20ish turns, lost focus a bit, and then eventually realized Milotic stonewalled everything without Bulu around. We brought this Cobalion set W1 and unfortunately didn't get to show it off here either.

W6 vs THE_CHUNGLER (L) :zeraora::volcanion::tangrowth::steelix-mega::latias::crobat:
Another week where I felt a bit directionless in prep. Interlinked recommended Toxic Volcanion looking at the scout so that's what I went with. There was another version of this team with Aggron Gligar > Steelix Crobat that I wish I loaded instead, but hindsight is 20/20. I kept mentioning in my channel how I knew Zera was coming based on Chungler's past loads, yet I still loaded a team that was pretty mediocre into it, so I have a few regrets in prep this week. Tunnelvisioned a bit in-game and assumed BU/Plasma/CC/PRough Zera since that's what Chungler loaded when he brought this team earlier in the tour; I went Lati on T18 to catch either CC or Plasma, with the plan being to bait PRough and go Steelix next, but when it revealed Z-Fighting instead of Fairy I really should've expected other changes on the set too. I needed to play this much better than I did in order to overcome the matchup disadvantage, which didn't end up happening.

W6 vs Roginald (L) :sceptile-mega::tinkaton::latias::diggersby::swampert::talonflame:
No time this week to prep and had to play early. Inter was helping speedprep the day of, and we just ended up reusing the W2 team with some edits. I've had the suspicion that Mega Scept is fraudulent for a while, but this game sealed it. Mon is def cheeks. I couldn't break my opp's team unless I played like a god. While this wasn't a perfect game from me by any means, I don't have many regrets either; I got some turns wrong, but I couldn't see a winpath without taking these risks. Rogi going Zarude on T22 was pointlessly ballsy and I wish I had punished it, probably would've won if I clicked U-turn, but he got the play right and that is what matters. This team I built a few weeks prior was the only other option I considered bringing.

===

At one point I had the best record in the pool at 4-1 going into W6, so it is a bit disappointing to end with two losses and finish 4-3. Was hoping to have a playoffs run but our team imploded in the end. Can't complain too much since I didn't win my W7 game either. I expected to go for cheap and break even, though, which is pretty much what ended up happening. I'm not sure why two managers now have put me into NDRU but I've enjoyed playing it both times. I suppose it's a weaker pool overall, so throwing a random 3k into the tier and hoping for the best isn't a bad strategy.

Overall the meta seems pretty good. Mega shark being banned should be an improvement as well. I think Zeraora is the best mon in the tier, and is probably too versatile for its own good. Really feels like there's a set for every matchup, although no single set will be strong versus everything. Can run BU and CM viably with multiple different Z options, can tech random coverage like GKnot/Blaze/Prough, pivot HDB sets are strong and insanely consistent, other items like Life Orb/Ebelt are decent, list goes on. It picks and chooses its counters with relative comfort. Being able to compress your breaker and cleaner into one slot is so strong, especially in the absence of other good non-mega speed control options.

I said in my channel at one point that I thought hazard stack was phenomenal in this tier—because so many mons run Z-moves, mega stones, and choice items, you'll typically see 3-5 mons on every team that take spikes and/or rocks damage. Many of the tier's best breakers also just happen to learn pivoting moves, like Manectric, Slither, Zeraora, Pidgeot, and Basculegion, all of which can contribute defensively to a team (e.g. Slither/Pidgeot can pivot into grounds, Basc is a cobalion/lucario check, etc.) which makes building these structures more forgiving. I had a hard time building good hazard stack throughout the tour, though. Spikes setters are basically limited to Gligar/Gastro and maybe Deo-D, which is the first major constraint; you also probably want Cyclizar as your removal because it learns Knock Off, pivoting, and since Spin > Fog for hazard stack, so your removal options are also somewhat constrained; you still have to worry about how to switch into monsters like Z Latias and CB Slither, which are not Pokemon you can only handle offensively; and you are probably weak to HO, because TSpike absorbers can be hard to fit, and cleaners like Sharpedo/Jugulis tear through frailer teams.

Glimmora strikes me as unhealthy, though I wouldn't call it broken. TSpikes are great for the same reason Spikes are. There are many grounded mons in this tier due to how common choice items, mega stones, and Z crystals are. Grounded poisons, however, don't seem that common; you have Glimmora itself, and then Nidoking/Nidoqueen, Fez, Glowbro, a couple other less common ones like Munkidori, NGas Gweez, and Toxtricity/Revravroom/Muk-G if people ever run those. Not a bad list but most teams won't easily fit one of these. Glimmora's versatility is also ridiculous—sash, balloon, red card, meteor beam, Z crystals, rock polish, can set spikes if it wants, scarf (idk if anyone's used this but it seems fine), probably more? Near impossible to guess what its set is from preview, and every team needs to have a plan for how to counterlead it and stop it from barfing up hazards unless you want to lose versus every HO. I just don't think this mon is healthy for the tier long-term.

Latias seems broken and fine simultaneously. Another insanely versatile mon, but maybe a bit too reliant on Z moves? It felt impossible checking this in the builder at times since Dragon/Fire/Fighting Z options just blow up a lot of standard checks. Think you just kinda have to outmaneuver it. Offensive counterplay is very important.

Mega Steelix seems really outclassed. Is there a reason to run this over Aggron unless your team absolutely needs a Volt blocker? It's not even a good Volt blocker because the best Electrics all run stuff that heavily threaten it. I guess a strong EQ and Thunder Wave immunity could be situationally useful? I know the VR is outdated, but I was shocked to see this in A rank. Maybe I'm missing something obvious here.

Slither is so good man. Holding this tier together by a thread. I would run HO with four Dark-types every match if this guy didn't exist.

I tried to watch every RU replay as the tour went on, and I saw other players bringing some stuff that looked cool to me. Seems like there is ample room to bring creative teams and succeed. I had a fun time playing RU this tour, thanks Interlinked for picking me up and for your support throughout the weeks.
 
:Glimmora: moved from NDRU to NDUU
:Swampert: moved from NDRU to NDUU
:Zeraora: moved from NDRU to NDUU

:Beedrill-Mega: moved from NDUU to NDRU
:Dracozolt: moved from NDUU to NDRU
:Garganacl: moved from NDUU to NDRU
:Golisopod: moved from NDUU to NDRU
:Iron Boulder: moved from NDUU to NDRU
:Lokix: moved from NDUU to NDRU
:Mandibuzz: moved from NDUU to NDRU
:Primarina: moved from NDUU to NDRU
:Ursaluna: moved from NDUU to NDRU




Due to the high amount of drops, many of them with extremely powerful toolkits, we decided to vote on the 3 most polarizing drops in Garganacl, Iron Boulder, and Ursaluna. This is to minimize matchup-based issues from occurring in RU Invitational and make the barrier of entry in RUGL smaller in terms of building.

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Iron Boulder and Ursaluna are banned from National Dex RU!
dhelmise to implement

:Iron Boulder: Outside of healthy Mega Aggron possibly checking it, There isn't really all that much that can handle its defensive profile, speed, power, movepool, and versatility. Physically Defensive Tangrowth could handle Booster Energy but will lose to Rockium Z variants unless its at pristine HP. Cobalion has to choose between Chople or Shuca and doesn't KO back with Iron Head. Lokix and Slither Wing could handle with First Impression, but then fall victim to Protect variants. More defensive switch ins such as Gligar forces a trade at best. Although its possible to adapt teambuilding to it in the same vein as we do Latias, it has too many variants to account for to be a healthy aspect of the tier.

:Ursaluna: Guts sets have only two reliable switch ins, Sinistcha and Dhelmise, which still need to play around Ice Punch. Faster answers such as Volcanion and Basculegion-F can lose to Trailblaze. Even faster guys such as Latias, Iron Jugulis, and more don't always OHKO. It can also choose to not run Flame Orb to leverage its great bulk better while still being just as threatening but harder to wear out. It's less guess work to deal with compared to Iron Boulder, but the list of possible checks are still way too small to be balanced.

-------

:Garganacl: Salt Cure is annoying, but that's about it. Garganacl will probably be predatory into a lot of Steels and Water type anchors such as Mega Aggron, Gastrodon, and Cobalion while also being really strong into Togekiss, but its not exactly a cake-walk for Garganacl. Can't really switch in to most mons in the tier while not doing much damage in return and hard checks such as Tapu Bulu, Sinistcha, Sceptile-Mega, Nidoking, Zarude, Slither Wing, etc will make it challenging to reliably setup with Iron Defense or Curse. We'll still keep an eye on it of course.
 
I came 3rd in NDRU invitational, didn't drop a set until winners final then got 2-0d twice in a row oops
I both had a big dip in motivation and generally struggled to build non-ho post-tiershifts so I don't think a teamdump is very useful so I thought I'd do something different: a review of all the shitmons I brought, why I used them, and my thoughts on their general usability.

Mega Banette :Banette:

For a while I was kind of high on double status Mega Banette on HO as an enabler for the other guys + spinblocker. I had an ev spread that un-mega'd would eat a knock from Krook/Lokix/Zarude and wisp them, enabling others to set up on them, and Taunt + Poltergeist was still very strong into slower teams. Unfortunately I didn't get this interaction once in several brings and now that Lokix is back in the tier again I am retiring this guy. You can definitely drop one of the statuses for destiny bond but it has bad 4mss. It's also quite funny that I decided to bring a spinblocker who cannot damage Cyclizar.

Aerodactyl :Aerodactyl:
This is a known HO lead (if imo a worse one than froslass or azelf) but I think DD Flyinium counts as shitmon. It has some surprise value if your opponent expects it to be a lead, can afford Adamant, and fast strong Flyinium can't be that bad. Probably better Z guys to use and I'm always hesitant to make HO even worse into Manectric, but it was alright.

Comfey :Comfey:

Of all the dross I brought I think this is probably the main genuine discovery for the tier: Comfey is extremely legit. Great into both Manectric and the First Impression twins who are the laziest ways of proofing into HO, best set by far is taunt + cm + hp ground. I brought it twice and it won once and would have won the other game without a meteor beam miss, and the same team won for mrfraud in the finals with Comfey clutching a game it had no business winning. I actually over-supported it with my first team, really doesn't need magnezone as you can just bring spikes and overwhelm steels in normal HO ways.

Magnezone :Magnezone:
Trapping a steel is nice and all but you'd so much rather just be a proper ho threat that invites the steel in and puts 30+% on it. I was chople id+bp to cover Cobalion and Steelix as well as Aggron, which just makes him even worse into everything else. Maybe it's alright on fatter teams but I think on HO it's a waste of space.

Cinccino :Cinccino:

I used this guy because 2yrs ago I had a very successful UU team with Magnezone + Ogerpon-Cornerstone + Comfey + Cincinno, point being the latter 3 love having steels trapped and guaranteed removal to keep Ogerpon's sturdy intact. It's also a nice u turn guy to get Zone in on the steels it forces, and guaranteed removal for other HO threats. I'd done a lot of taunt spam to keep hazards off for ho threats so I wanted to try shoehorning in removal. It might be higher upside than it showed in this game but to nobody's great surprise, it's ass.

Obstagoon :Obstagoon:

Cool guts abuser, faster if weaker than Heracross and I especially like that you can obstruct to block the First Impression twins then smoke them, or if you've already conceded rocks you can obstruct on Mega Aggron to get it to -2 and closer to CC range.

Druddigon :Druddigon:

Horrid mon but has some cool traits: I thought it would probably be the best Rough Skin + Rocky Helmet punish for Lokix, and rocks + taunt + glare is a cool combo of utility. This is all true but you just end up with a weird defensive-ish guy who doesn't really properly check anything.

Some of these guys did a job and a shitmon only has to work once! Ggs and congrats to mrfraud and to pannu for a really strong run to the finals.
 
2-4 FL playoffs benchboy here to tell the lowbrow playerbase why basuclegion is not ok and why you're all stupid for not voting 5 for it on this on the survey. Take a look at the vr and tell me where the consistent checks are to basculegion. I'll wait. Cyc gets z iced, av tang gets z iced or ice->wp iced (if ur not stupid like me and ev it to live whip), milo gets subbed on and turned to fodder or just shadow ball into z ghostd with a little chip, crawduant is a soft check i guess but not really because its a crawduant XD, muk is probably fairs but its also a muk and can only rly switch in safely once if hazards r up which they should be because its ho and thats the point of ho and also muk is just a shitmon, umbreon probably checks but i rly wouldnt be surprised if it just gets specs surfed or wp surfed or z waterd or smthn and umbreon is also already fairly niche not at all splashable. all other counterplay is offensive and not consistent enough especially when considering the teams surrounding bascu. weakness policy, specs, z ghost, z ice, z water, sub lefties are all viable sets and each require different forms of counterplay to handle. All of this is in tandem with the myriad of other broken mons running around along side it, mainly ho. There is no reasonable argument to be made for this mon being around in the tier and I havent actually seen any made its just that people like to just turn their head away and pretend this mon doesnt exist for god knows what reason. It is so simple to just add whichever z crystal, bring 1 mon that benefits from the fact ur opp is basically rolling the dice and praying its the bascu set they planned their line around and if its not enjoy losing to it or 1.5 minimum or losing to the other mons surrounding it built around the fact that it enables an absurdly weighted guessing game in the HO users favor. U can literally just spam the same ho and change the z crystal every week and it will work idk how u can look at this and think its fine. The only explanation I can come to is that the general voter base is not very good, don't play the tier, or both. I could go on but I believe this to be a good summation of how braindead bascu is. Disagree = Lowbrow and I own you
 
Danbear02 has stepped down from council. mrfraud has joined in his place, welcome. Anyways here's the slate I promised after the survey.

:sv/Primarina:Primarina and Polteageist are banned :sv/Polteageist:
dhelmise to implement
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:Primarina: Primarina
Primarina lost a lot of checks since the last time it dropped. Zeraora, Glimmora, Slowking, Blissey, and Amoonguss are all gone. This severely limits the options in the teambuilder to check Offensive Primarina, wherein not having an Assault Vest Tangrowth, Volcanion, or Empoleon will most likely result in a kill every time it hits the field. Less competition for the water slot also makes it a far more dominant of a mon this time around.

:Polteageist: Polteageist
Polteageist has received a lot of hate due to it being seen as an extremely unfair sweeper. Very few scarfers are capable of outpacing it at +2 and most offensive Dark-types aren't doing so hot against Ghostium-Z and Normalium-Z variants of the mon. Endure set have also gotten a lot of traction since they help to invalidate Slither Wing and Lokix as potential revenge killers and gives it chances to proc Weak Armor boosts against Scarf Zarude. Overall the matchups Poltegeist can get and chain favor it really well.

re: Hyper Offense
Wasn't sure what would be the best route to slate HO, so the issue will be addressed in the near future instead of now. Suggestions are welcome!
 
Invitation is over and RUGL is over. That's a lot of hopefully high quality tournament gameplay, and RU Open has already started so that's just another tour to bring people and development into the tier. I'm quite glad that NDRU was able to entrench itself in the tournament scene of NatDex and beyond. Both the tourists, veterans, and newcomer guys are really creative with their teambuilding. We're long past the days of getting our metagame development from kinzo's team tours. That said, a part of me feels nostalgic for that time period. I don't think I'll play in the more serious tours going forward, I kinda want to just play in the mickey tours and mess around instead of taking tours super serious. That's largely how I treated RUGL, and a lot of what I brought were reloads with minor tweaks.

Anyways here's a video talking about me playing RUGL. It's very scuffed and not a high quality creation by any stretch of the imagination but I still think its a fun creative exercise.


Now moving onto the tier itself I have a personal VR pasted here so others can kinda get an idea of what I think is good. Every sub-rank is internally ordered by viability. Anything B rank or higher are mons I seriously consider loading or accounting for in the builder. B-/C+ mons are mons I pay attention to only if they appear on a scout. Rest of the C ranks are just not good, but functional if you can get a good 6 going (the tour fish mons)

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Mons that catch my eye.
:Necrozma:
Necrozma was an HO gremlin that used to be powerful, being ranked in B+ at its peak in Tera metagame, but then took a steep decline in consistency after the Tera ban. In modern times, it still manages to do what it did in its prime, albeit with significantly reduced set variety. Fits very nicely on the "optimized" HO cores as a tertiary special breaker and to give HO a stronger bulk spread (ala if it can't sweep it can at least tank hits to trade to support its teammates). Meteor Beam, Photon, and Heat Wave are super standard on the guy, but 4th slot gives you a lot of choice in Agility, Dragon Pulse, Stealth Rock, or Morning Sun.

:Camerupt-Mega:
Mega Camerupt is largely still not a great pick in my humble opinion, but if you fear Mega Manectric teams like I did at the time a lot then you have options to build a substantial team with it. So with that usage case I think it can lock down a niche in the tier. Sets can kinda be whatever since the guy is crazy fat and hard hitting regardless. I personally opted for Rocks + Stabs + Toxic, but things like All-Out Attacker and Rest Talk are probably fine too. Don't use Trick Room though, that is still deeply unserious. Big issue in success for this mon right now is most definitely Latias since that just comfortably switches into its stabs and Mega Camel has negative coverage to beat it. This is mainly why I appreciate Toxic on the fella (especially since good status soakers are few and far between and the change of Latias running Refresh is even rarer), but if that's not your style then standard Latias checks and pressures are probably fine? I think you would still need to overcompensate for it though to avoid compromising the matchup. Possibly a Pursuiter but I could not yet imagine a team with both Pursuit and Mega Camerupt that isn't terrible.

:Sandy Shocks:
It's largely not good because the lack of coverage is super unbearable into any of Gligar, Tangrowth, Latias, Cyclizar, and any team that is good. Makes it an extremely difficult mon to work with outside of its supercharged HO lead set. For me I chose to leverage its main quality of Volt-blocking Mega Manectric and looked for ways to manipulate its shitty matchup into Gligar & Dragons. In both attempts the teams I came out with had a Pursuiter so that is probably the route others want would want to go down for this mon to work properly (since Latias is such a pain in the ass). For sets Boots or Scarf, I don't think anything else is worth using seriously for right now.

:flygon:
Flygon got a lot of innovation in NDPL and NDCL since it is roles can a lot more versatile than what was initially believed. Offensive sets with Dragon Dance have been the dominant Flygon sets. Dragon Dancers are already extremely hard to come by in this tie, with the last annoying one that isn't banned already being Regidrago, so it helps that this one has a great defensive typing (Thunder Wave immunity really great too) and Roost to accrue multiple Dragon Dances. Choice Band and Scarf also get strong value with powerful priority and nicely placed speed control to keep Latias and friends in check. Defensive sets also not that bad (albeit a little redundant with Gligar) with access to both Rocks and Defog. The difference with Gligar would be 100% the speed tier to hit stuff like Volcanion and Nidoking and the pure rock resist to stomach Rhyperior better. What does it fit on? I don't really know, it's rather eccentric and I haven't tried it myself. But I think the roles are concise enough to warrant optimizing.

:Nihilego:
A lot of people would think that Nihilego would be a bad mon due to Mega Aggron and other steels existing, but people are starting to come around to the truth that Meteor Beam sets are still very powerful. Most steels cannot really keep enough HP over the course of the game to properly switch in to Meteor Beam followed up by HP Fire, and once the steel goes down Nihilego just picks apart teams extremely well. Powerful cleaner in general.

:Iron Jugulis:
For how scary Iron Jugulis is on HO, it's arguably just as annoying to see on a BO or offense team as well. Sets such as Choice Specs, Boots + Knock Off, Work Up + Z-Move, and just regular Booster Energy gives those more standard teams a lot of easy progression with how stupid its STAB combo + hax is. NDCL and RUGL can attest to this.

:Lokix:
Something I'm seeing more of is just that Swords Dance Lokix is more acceptable to use on HO nowadays. Before it used to be really fringe but Dark spam cores and priority are really nice to have for HO. Tends to be Life Orb, but sometimes they have Black Glasses, Silver Powder, or Z Moves

:slowbro-galar:
Galarian Slowbro is kind of a terror with its heavy Z Move usage. It's typically Waterium Z and occasionally Firum, but Poisonium has also proven to be effective to cover the Darks and Dragons really easily. Most of its checks hate the mon because of Scald and the fact that Krookodile and Lokix and Rhyperior rarely OHKO it from full. It's very hard to revenge kill immediately. I really appreciate the amount of staying power it has compared to other Psychics.

:latias:
One of my favorite mons to use in this tier since it can be tailored for most roles and matchups. Dragonium Z Calm Mind and Scarf are the standard Latias sets but Electrium Z Bolt Beam Calm Mind sets has been working out really well for the mon as of late. Very good to prevent Togekiss from being too annoying and also avoids the hassle of Draco Meteor drops and STAB resistant mons like Mega Aggron and Krookodile for the most part. Specs and Life Orb are still really good too if you're looking for a breaker that doesn't exhaust the Z slot. My personal tech has to be Bulky Colbur to give Latias more utility roles with Thunder Wave and Defog (and Healing Wish to an extent).

:basculegion-f:
Icium Z was kind of a wake up call to me that Basculegion-F has sooo much versatility, almost on par with Latias except it's more immediately threatening (broken). Former checks like Mandibuzz or Tangrowth or Cyclizar just don't work. It's a similar case when Basculegion runs Weakness Policy or one of its more standard items. There is no one mon that checks all Basculegion-F sets defensively. Offensively it gets super difficult to check the Agility variants that are all the rage at the moment on HO teams. I encourage readers to also check out seth's post on the mon, since a lot of what he says aligns with my personal experiences with the Basculegion-F and I would definitely support its removal from the tier.

:Krookodile:
Choice Scarf Krookodile is still great and it's going to remain great for as long as Latias exists. But recently I've found myself wanting more out of my Latias trapper. The Pursuit vs Knock Off mind game is much too annoying for me to be Choice Scarf since Z Cobalion can soak up your Knock Off like it's nothing. This is where Chople comes in, allowing you to flip the matchup and use Krookodile as a lure since Krook will tank a hit from Close Combat and OHKO back after a defense drop. And the best part is that you can still bluff Choice Scarf beforehand and the LatiCob player won't realize until it's too late. I think this set can help elevate Krookodile's viability quite a bit by making it a less linear mon against common guys.

:Volcanion:
If you don't have Latias then, Volcanion is very annoying to deal with. Steam Eruption is extremely free into vast parts of the meta, letting you break nearly every wall in the tier outside of Cyclizar who you just put out of commission with a burn. Just get Latias out of the picture and the game gets played on easy mode.

:Manectric-Mega:
Since we don't have Zeraora this guy is really good again. And without Swampert in the picture and Gastrodon not having dominant usage its a lot free to dispatch Gligar and chip Dragons via HP Ice. Speed tier is also extremely vital for offense builds since otherwise you'd need to use a scarfer (all weird), something that isn't hard hitting as you'd like, or Mega Sceptile which can't pivot.

:revavroom:
It's been talked about a lot on Discord but essentially it does all that it does in tiers like SV UU just without the Tera. But Shift Gear with a Toxic immunity and great coverage is still extremely killer. Great pick on HO and Revavroom has gone from being niche pick to borderline mandatory to have for the playstyle, on par with Iron Jugulis.
 
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Hiya, NDPL is not going well for me, thankfully my student and son willster507 has shown great promise in NDFL. Anyways this is what RU council has been talking about right now.

:pmd/Basculegion-F:
This is probably the mon that has council seriously torn in half on what to do with it. There is one camp that believes Basculegion-F to be the most toxic aspect of the tier and extremely inconsistent to check given the excessive amount of good sets and variants. Which contributes to it being a massive burden to account for in the teambuilder. Comparatively a mon such as Latias, which also gets in hot water sometimes for its crazy variance, is far easier to account for due to its worse defensive and offensive profile making it easier to revenge kill and punish for setting up. The other camp in council recognizes that it is strong to handle but its requirement of needing the item and 4th move to solve its various matchup issues in addition to its poor speed tier makes it too inconsistent (read: matchup fishy) to be broken akin to Nidoking. This inconsistency tends to correspond to its winrate in tours being poor and thus not actually as impactful as the pro-ban side makes it out to be. Though the pro-ban camp would argue that this is a negative to the tier regardless due to many "good" teams not being able to have a response to Basculegion if they face the wrong Bascu set (a team might beat Choice Specs but might lose to Substitute for example).

Traditionally this issue was addressed with a blanket sponge such as Cyclizar and Zarude being able to consistently to break substitute and hurt it enough for either it or a revenge killer to deal with Bascu. This tested strategy loses its efficacy when tasked with handling Agility however, which has been seen multiple times using its Z-move to completely bypass those aforementioned checks while also making revenge killing significantly harder to do (only Latias and the extremely rare Ogerpon & Infernape can outspeed it with Choice Scarf and even those do not outspeed if it's Timid Basculegion). That new layer added makes the matchup insecurities teams face much more punishing than before since instead of fearing the loss of one or two mons for getting the Bascu set wrong, you risk losing the game outright.

A solution was offered with the entry of Blissey and Chansey into the tier, making Agility potentially more fair, however this hasn't really left the pro-ban camp convinced since the tier centralizing around Blissey again like last NDPL is generally considered a bad pathway to some (there is a dissenting opinion that Blissey itself is a problem for the tier for instance).


:pmd/Blissey::pmd/chansey::pmd/Slowking:
3 Blobos dropped into the tier this October. Pretty cool that Slowking is back. Tier really appreciates a new check to Volcanion. Blissey and Chansey are also very strong checks to Volcanion. All in all, probably not a good month for Volcanion. Now regarding Blissey and Chansey, there is a potential fear that their inclusion (or reinclusion for Blissey) into the meta will slow it down a bit too much. There was negative reception attached to Blissey last NDPL cycle as said before because it was extremely annoying to take Blissey down with anything. Chansey is probably the more balanced of the two on account of its greater weakness to Knock Off and hazards but still an annoyance.

Unbans
Not mentioning any because none of them have support outside of one person but it was brought up that a good chunk of them could be both balanced and useful for the tier, but the reason why they aren't popular suggestions is because how unfair they are to play against in game. Not against the idea of unbans personally given how stable I think the tier is but I also don't want to make the tier less fun to play by adding something toxic into tier despite being technically balanced.

Other one-off concerns I've noticed in the community
:pmd/Garganacl::pmd/Volcanion:
Garganacl and Volcanion are pretty annoying to match up against with how easy they can wear down an opposing team. In prior iternations, I didn't really pay them much mind because both were still in the exploratory stages of teambuilding (not really Volcanion, but Volcanion teams kinda were lacking in consistency). Nowadays both are very respectable options and used so much more. I wouldn't call them broken due to how linear their presences are both in the builder and in-game, but they are certainly a contributor to the tier getting a little more punishing to build overtime.

:pmd/Quagsire::pmd/Weezing-galar:
Stall's place in the tier became solidified after NDCL I, and has gotten a cult following. Before Blissey and Chansey dropped, it probably wouldn't have gotten the time of day in a serious council discussion but now everyone is afraid of the new and revamped stalls turning into a super toxic matchup to queue into. We still have answers to stand up to stall but we notably don't have Thundurus, Mega Sharpedo, Okidogi, or Polteagiest and I don't think anyone is going to be a happy camper if we have to start using Chandelure or Nasty Plot Togekiss again to beat these. Time will tell though, people are still hesitant to stall here at the moment.

Anything I might've missed or think I've ignored from the general public feel free to point it out here or on discord. Survey #soon.
 
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I’ll keep this brief but nothing should be banned or looked at currently.

Legion is annoyingly good but has its flaws. One of the biggest things is that legion doesn’t come in on things very easily. You don’t come in on steels and waters that easily fearing toxic even if you don’t take a whole lot from them. Volt turn is a thing particularly u turn bat is probably fantastic for it but there’s enough defensive and offensive counterplay to it. Running legion as your water also means you’re less good vs things like volcanion and you sometimes need to pick your breaking z if you run it between ghostium and icium. It’s broken if you consider everything in between but in practice it can often do a good job of killing one or two mons maybe if you play it well. There are plenty of mons that do this well anyway particularly nido and harc the latter of which I find criminally underused for how good it is at breaking given the lack of use of Rhyp or Gastro.

Garg is very constricting building wise and to me sort of forces you to run a good cloak water or a strong fighting but can be handled offensively. 8 recovers ultimately limits its longevity and needs a lot of free turns to become dangerous. There are definitely teams that lose outright to it but it’s also potentially deadweight in some games because it never gets an opportunity to do its bullshit.

Slowking is the goat. Only thing that will probably need to be monitored is whether stall becomes too much to handle but I think in a meta with 8 recovery pp, it’ll be just about manageable
 
Fun tour, fun tier, appreciate sealoo and cala for giving me a chance and Micaiah for helping with some prep decisions throughout the weeks. Much love friends.

W1 :Krookodile::Talonflame::Sylveon::Slowbro-Galar::Steelix-Mega::Suicune:
W2 :Krookodile::Volcanion::Aggron-Mega::Slither Wing::Latias::Fezandipiti:
W3 :Manectric-Mega::Gligar::Registeel::Cyclizar::Lokix::Basculegion-F:
W4 :Ninetales-Alola::Arctozolt::Latias::Volcanion::Iron Jugulis::Steelix-Mega:
W5 :Cobalion::Donphan::Mimikyu::Iron Jugulis::Latias::Houndoom-Mega:
W6 :Zygarde-10%::Lokix::Cyclizar::Weezing-Galar::Slowking::Aggron-Mega:
W7 :Grafaiai::Sceptile-Mega::Tapu Bulu::Magnezone::Comfey::Latias:

Some brief meta thoughts-

I'm pretty borderline on Bascu myself, I'd rate it like a 4 out of 5 but gun to my head I'd probably vote to ban. There's no one set that does it all, but I think its versatility is too much of a headache to prepare for in the builder & scout for in-game. While it certainly can't come in on much by itself, I don't think this a large barrier for the mon in practice; it's such a great fit on arguably the best archetype in the tier (voltturn bo/balance) where it gets crazy mileage from its teammates pivoting around, and provides a fair bit in return for these structures as defensive glue vs guys like Cobal/Slither. On HO it doesn't really matter that it can't enter on much either. Think it's sort of a classic example of one of the mons with the best toolkits also being one of best fits on some of the strongest structures. Just has too much going for it.

Garg feels quite feast or famine to me, which is funny because on paper its attributes are so ridiculous. It beats most of the best removal options in the tier as a rocker, and setup sets can snowball out of control if you give it a single turn to breathe. I've found building with it pretty tricky though, because its defensive profile doesn't beat a Lot of important stuff on its own, and in-game I agree it can usually be suffocated offensively.

Volcanion has seemed completely fine to me, it's a phenomenal breaker for sure, but I wouldn't go further than that. I don't forsee any issues with this guy now that Slowking is around.

I agree stall is very good and I wish I'd brought it this tour. I think nunes's team vs jawa was a really solid example of a good stall build, although this was pre-Blissey. More people should experiment with this archetype.
 
:sv/Basculegion-F:
Following a community survey, we have decided to vote and ban Basculegion-F from NatDex RU!

dhelmise tagging to implement

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Ultimately the versatility of Basculegion-F proved way too annoying for players to accurately account for. With Choice Specs, Scarf, Substitute (and it's underlying variants), and Agility all playing a role in letting the mon bypass its counterplay.

The above 3 posts supplement this ban post (i'm not writing the same issues I had with the mon for a third time).

That's all for now!
 
PRE FISH BAN OBJECTIVELY CORRECT PVR. Argue with a wall. Tiers all ordered but the lower the go the more you can change around order.
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Some various opinions on random mons of note

:cyclizar: - This mon will be doing nothing but slinging dung with fish banned but with it around this mon is far and away the most splashable pick available. Dont need to tell anyone how valuable a regenerator soft bascu check with knock uturn removal and phazing is. probably drops to like mid-low A- util is still valuable and not having to fit a fogger opens up building a lot. maybe boots stuff starts seeing more use now that the vest isnt as required but till want it to be checking jug hound type mons so idk

:manectric-mega: - mon had a crazy rise in my eyes, wasnt very high on this mon going into ndpl but the lack of viable speed control outside of scarf krook and lati (and shit zarude and probably maybe a couple other shitters im forgetting) coupled with pretty perfect coverage and the ability to pick and choose what you wanna beat with your last slot between hp ice, hp grass, and toxic makes it an extremely easy mon to get value out of. could see someone thinking its better than both krook aggy but do think this mon being forced into pretty linear structures keeps it from being top3

:weezing-galar: - Thanos, easy stopgap for the broken fighters, krooks, glig, rhyperior sorta, etc

:garganacl: - I thought this mon was horseshit until like w5 of pl when i realized how easy it was to enable it making consistent progress every time it comes in. being a non gastro/shitterglig switch in to harc is also a big plus for it (assuming ur pdef which i think they should be running majority of the time, structures built around enabling it should already have ample counterplay to special guys)

:iron-jugulis: - specs is still potential man(we wanted to use it but team with it was bascu weak XDDD) and booster is still a necessary glue for ho being one of if not the only viable speed control for the archetype

:volcanion: - i never saw the volcanion broken arguments this mon isnt all that. honestly i think slowking being in the tier is an indirect buff, being probably the most consistent lure with fire spin, forces the slowking guy into an awkward position since slowking will most likely be the primary steam switch so having to respect spin leaves them with an uncomfortable mindgame to play

:gallade: - meteoric rise for this mon. stabs agility + one of night slash/protect is genuinely cancer to try to account for and is only held back by it being a slow piece of shit slower than stuff like booster jug scarf lati if ur not jolly which u shouldnt be cus then ur calcs arent fkin absurd. speed rly isnt that big a deal for it though since ur just specially bulky enough to get going on stuff like non z lati mane etc. if u get ur crits this mon is probably ban worthy. also invalidates stall extremely easy i was scrounging for answers with shit like battle armor tork to deal with it lol. could see ho structures built around enabling ts guy being controversial down the line

:blissey: - you're not that guy pal

:cobalion: - i rly thought this mon was shit and still do kinda but slowking enables it so well and this core only gets better with basc ban so i gotta give him his flowers. rocks sd z steel with fsight + voltturn support is rly easy to farm with and z bug is probably real if u wanna lure slowking or whatever

:registeel: use demon regi and watch the wins come flowing in

:quagsire: - stall placeholder, structure is really really good if u dont queue into gallade(or if it doesnt crit everything). need to tech a cloak on or smth to handle garg maybe reuni stall is next up but other than that nothing outside of nichelings like craw can rly break this. and fsight passing i guess that probably does if u play good. tbh could probably move the archetype higher id prolly use it sooner than i would like zarude

:arctozolt: snow is extremely good and we wanted to bring it every week since slowking dropped but we just couldnt escape basculegion fear/making the structure weak to other stuff to account for basc. with no fish to worry about building this structure gets 1000x easier and its coverage is unguardable with good play

:tornadus: - idk how to feel about torn anymore plot z fly is such a strong click into the entire tier and u have coverage and prankster taunt and stuff but bahhhhhh its very awkward to fitttttt... maybe u just slap it on ho and it farms but idk.. ive already solved HO enough for a while...

:reuniclus: - said in my teamdump post but yea being the only magic guard mon in the tier gives it so much value and definitely has room to mess around with it. i think z is the most natural set for it since u snipe the darks so effectively but idk could see shit like colbur knock util or like grassy seed lol idk

:gligar: - using this mon = I AM A NOOB kick me sign on your back. We have moved past using AI generated NFE mons. B+ rank is already a charity ranking its actually such a shitmon

:nidoking: - Hypothetical man

:revavroom: - i thought this mon was horseshit until inventing z ground. lures steels pretty well for its team or just straight kills them and breaks holes thru everything. balloon is still dung though stop using this noob bait

:azelf: - could see this mon getting more use, has all the coverage u could ever want + good speed tier + strong + lot of options for items + good util in stuff like taunt encore. struggles with 4 move slot syndrome and being frail as fuck but such is life

:banette-mega: - this mon is very real, dbond encore trolling + a strong poltergeist is pretty okay if u can find a slot for it. maybe another ho merchant use it like a scuffed shitter dbond val i guess who knows

:lucario: - oh how youve fallen my sweet angel...

:chesnaught: - had some stall built with this but i dont think its very good. has a niche though im not sure id have the cahones to load it

:rotom-heat: - this mon is actually pretty good plot + fire electric coverage is cool and pretty easy on paper to trap the stuff that resists its stabs. meta cycle is coming up heater

:cresselia: - i was theorycrafting some broken ahh stored power sets with this but could never justify fishing with it. definitely better than C rank but i wont be the one to bring it to the big leagues

:munkidori: - z parting shot = elo potion

:necrozma: - what does he even do?

:enamorus-therian: - specs turtle = EBK. only actually strong fairy stab in the tier is a real niche... On paper...

:magnezone: - wow you are one horseshit mon arent you zone. maybe id is fine but idk u barely even trap the steels and there r much easier ways of handling steels that dont require u to fit a nothingburger on ur team. bottom of C- is already generous



Wanted to get my final thoughts on the tier out there since there is a good chance I wont be touching this meta again for the foreseeable future or possibly ever (I wonder why? Heh...) Sucks we didnt get to enjoy building post basc meta in NDPL cus there is definitely so much room for innovation when u arent forced into such linear structures but oh well.. Goodbye SVNDRU. Lets hope the future is bright.
tony-stark-smile.gif
 
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