RU National Dex RU Metagame Discussion

[Kin+ak (✧∇✧)]

err I've been plying the tier a bit (ever since I discovered Glastrier was putting in work) and I'm ready to sy that Mega ampharos is really not that bad. I haven't managed to put HP ice on it but it doesn't need a lot of moves tbh its stab Combo hits a lot for Neutral, and U can always Use Fblast Charge beam so you rapidly become HARD to wall. besides Fblast Can smack Mega Aggron
252+ SpA Mold Breaker Ampharos-Mega Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Aggron-Mega: 286-338 (83.1 - 98.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
That and well, Glastrier. Glastrier's access to SD makes it one of the most fearsome TR mons (Yea I said it and I'll say it again, Fuck you alowak); it's got a colorful coverage with Close Combat and Crunch, making it one of the hardest mons to wall, and it ain't too simple to Rkill either, with some Strong-hittingmons Not able to Grab an OHKO.
252 Atk Slither Wing Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Glastrier: 320-378 (79.4 - 93.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Latias All-Out Pummeling (160 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Glastrier: 286-338 (70.9 - 83.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
But while you might think Boots Icicle Crashh is optimal, I think that Loaded Dice Icicle Spear makes its true Strength. it goes through Sub, Sash, Sturdy, is more accurate and has an average Base power of 112.5, Quite the deal!
Besides, I think Z memento Cofagrigus is Kinda underrated as a TR setter. Sure, Cress's Lunar Blessing looks Straight-up Better, Z-Memento also goes through encore and Taunt, and lets your next mon have 1 almost free turn as the Opp won't be threatening it at -2 offenses.

 

[Runo]

Ay Is there any way the Role Compendium could be Updated? It has Scolipede in it, Falsely claims that Gallade has access to Sucker punch, Does not include hattrem in TR Setters or Glastrier as a TR Abuser. Araquanid is not listed as a Sticky web user despite being real solid, and Ttar is still in there. Conkeldurr is also there, Tornadus is for some reason in the "physical breakers" section as well as the special section so I assume it's there voluntarily, Zeraora is still around, so is Bulu, and Mienshao, Mega Ampharos is not in the "trick room abusers" section either, I assume it's mainly outdated but Sucker Punch Gallade shocked me that hard

I'll take care of it worry not yung Kinak

 

[Runo]

April Tier shifts

Buzzwole moved from NDRUBL to NDUU
Mew moved from NDRUBL to NDUU
Sableye-Mega moved from NDRUBL to NDUU
Amoonguss moved from NDRU to NDUU

Heracross-Mega moved from NDUU to NDRUBL
Latias-Mega moved from NDUU to NDRUBL
Archaludon moved from NDUU to NDRU
Azumarill moved from NDUU to NDRU
Banette-Mega moved from NDUU to NDRU
Golisopod moved from NDUU to NDRU
Grafaiai moved from NDUU to NDRU
Grimmsnarl moved from NDUU to NDRU
Regieleki moved from NDUU to NDRU
Skeledirge moved from NDUU to NDRU
Talonflame moved from NDUU to NDRU

Amoonguss was a superb defensive threat in this tier and its rise to UU is pretty annoying since we lose a really really splashable check to the fighters in addition to Basculegion-F and Mega Aggron. Filling the void it caused doesn't seem like an OBSCENE ask but stuff like Tapu Bulu, Tangrowth, and Roserade couldn't do what Amoonguss did with the same quality. Specifically none of them have any hope of checking Okidogi, which was already a pretty controversial threat in the metagame.

---


Possible that it might be broken, also possible that it could be balanced all the same. Manual Rain straight up seems like a cancer matchup fish without an additional Grass-type to invalidate the concept and this is without considering Archaludon, who beats nearly all of the anti-Rain mons in the metagame. Arch can still be incredibly threatening regardless of Rain, with sets like Electro Shot + Power Herb, Z-Move, and Choice Specs being fast enough to harrass a very large chunk of the tier. Whether or not potential checks such as the Mega Steels or offensive grounds like Krookodile and Nidoking will be able to stand up to this menace is unclear, but this is for sure a very impactful drop.


Now I know back in previous metagames of NDRU this was considered "fine", but the tier is a lot slower now and Azumarill has a very high risk to put a detrimental strain on what is predicted to be already strained given the other drops into this tier. Choice Band Azumarill seems borderline impossible to switch into (I think it is just Tangrowth). Belly Drum seems like a nightmare matchup fish on par with Scolipede. Not much else to talk about, I give it a week or two before this gets axed. It's most likely broken.


Last time Mega Banette was in the tier was NDPL IV... so almost 2 years. In that iteration of the tier, it was fairly threatening as Poltergiest made it Marowak-A but fast. Shit like Swords Dance and Destiny Bond and status are probably chill. Unsure if Mega Banette will be as real as last time but we'll see.


Golisopod can pressure both Slowking and Latias and place Spikes using that offensive pressure. Outside of that specific thing it seems mid.


Garbage, next mon


Okkkk this guy is a cheese head screener, Light Clay is banned though so no way it's taken seriously.


Honestly the only ground that soaks Normalium Z sets from Regieleki is Mega Steelix and like max spdef Gastrodon and Swampert i think, so it could be cool to try out! Heavy competition with Mega Manectric however.


Skeledirge has a lot of potential to be toxic with Unaware and deadly burn spreading capabilities. I don't think many mons want to actually switch into Wisp and the Ghost/Fire stab is REALLY annoying on top of that (Blacephalon trauma). Strong breakers such as Nidoking, Basculegion-F, and friends should be able to hold down the fort in the early weeks, and in return we get an additional check to Latias and Slither Wing (and partially Okidogi).


I love this Talonflame guy, great for punishing Slither Wing and Okidogi, doesn't falter into fat stuff like Mega Aggron or Mega Steelix (compare this to Crobat and Gligar who just kinda lose). Glad to see this back in to the tier.

 

[Velcroc]

Runo's post touched on most things I had to say. I'll add some extra points/perspective on these drops and rises.

There was a point in time where I wasn't too high on this mon. I didn't necessarily think it had a huge drop in viability, I just didn't feel confident putting it on teams because this mon see-saws between UU and RU so often. With the rise of Okidogi and Slither Wing sets being standardised, it was good to have a mon that punished both by switching-in. I believe that having two Grass-type regenerators in the metagame was ultimately a positive thing for keeping stuff like Thundurus and even Sandy Shocks in line, but without both, you have to make teambuilding calls. Amoonguss being gone means you have to compromise on your grass Regen mon. Either you lose noticeable special bulk (to the point where you don't even check special Electrics), or you lack the pressure provided by Helmet and Spore. For the record, I don't think either Electric-type would be automatically broken, but it is food for thought.

This Pokemon is an issue. Runo mentioned that Azu was manageable before based on what I described in council chat. On second look, this was roughly a year ago when Mega Beedrill was still running around in the tier. The meta at that time had a lot of fast dragons running around (hax, drei, lati), Volcanion was far more popular, and I believe Slowbro and Amoonguss were in the tier as well. All of these made a Belly Drum sweep difficult. Even then Banded Azu could claim something pretty easily especially when something like Slowbro was chipped. Now, the meta has settled significantly and Azu is a physical version of Basculegion-F right now except without any good mid-grounds. I disagree with Runo on BD Azu being SD Scolipede levels of fishing, but it certainly doesn't help matters.

I should mention that I'm discussing the drops in order of how good I think they are. I predict Skeledirge will end up defining the identity of the tier in the coming months, and right now I am mixed on it. Very few mons switch-in to Fire/Ghost, but the issue to me is that very few mons do anything of note either. Cyclizar switches into both STABs but gets ruined by burn. Houndoom-Mega probably takes a lot from Shadow Ball anyway (especially with rocks in the equation) or gets sniped by scorching sand. Mons that do force it out like Bascu, Nido, Krook all take a lot from Torch Song and lose the long-term game. I think Skeledirge lives a hit from 2 of these guys with bulk from full too. With that being said, I do think this mon suffers from not being able to EV for everything. If you don't invest in special defense, you miss out on checking quite a few attackers, while not investing in defense means you might struggle to tank Earthquakes and the like. The speed as well can be exploited by mons like Primarina who should tank 1 hit from either STAB.

I do wish this guy stays tho. You soft-check a vast portion of the metagame and I think Skeledirge could see us unbanning a few RUBLs if shifts are favourable.

Cautiously optimistic here as well. Power-herb Electro Shot, Z, Specs, AV, or even random utility sets will definitely make an impact on this tier. I think Specs Draco from this mon in particular is tricky to switch into especially since you can bluff Electro Shot on t1. I think I'll need to play / build for it to properly assess what actually takes this on, but I do know that some of the fat ground like Gastro, invested Mega pert and Mega Lix tank a lot of moves on electro shot sets. I don't think manual weather will become oppressive, but I will say that Archaludon + Mega Pert is a potentially scary combo if you can find a good rain setter. Z-move and Specs are the two sets that concern me at the moment since they can pick off so much of the tier. I do hope this stays tho since it is basically TTar at home for me and I do miss TTar a lot.

Utility birb back. Finally. It's a B / B- mon but it's nice to have an Oki/Slither punisher.

Tyranitar killed this mon's usage last time around. Krook, while it resists everything this mon has, is noticeably frailer than ttar and doesn't have the same longevity because of it. I think SD will have a niche, maybe Destiny Bond cheese sets could work.

Pretty cool mon to have back. Basically Lokix with Water STAB, Spikes and crappier U-turn thanks to its ability. I don't imagine it will be doing much here but I do appreciate a water-type spiker.

I think this mon blows and only has normalium-Z as its potentially scary set. Most grounds do not like getting hit with Normalium-Z off the rip, but without that you get walled by a good portion of the tier. Transistor being 1.3x makes it even less appealing than last gen to be honest.

Other prankster mons have more use cases. Both are decidedly mid (altho I like Grimm's typing into Latias).

 

[Runo]

NDRU Council has decided to unanimously ban Azumarill from National Dex RU! (dhelmise and Marty to implement please)

Although Azumarill has flip-flopped in and out of this tier multiple times, it has significantly less counterplay than ever before. Defensive behemoths like Slowbro, Pecharunt, and Amoonguss are no longer legal. Mega Slowbro is harder to use due to its base Galarian Slowbro form being way weaker defensively and not resistant to Water, Empoleon is significantly worse this time around, Tentacruel is unviable, etc. All of these changes allow Choice Band Azumarill to be egregiously threatening to the metagame.

The sturdiest checks to Azumarill right now are Mega Aggron, Tangrowth, and Volcanion, which each come with some flaws against it. Mega Aggron, despite being insanely bulky, can only switch into Banded Liquidation twice at the most while having very few ways of punishing aspects of Azumarill comps such as Future Sight, Volt-Turn, and Hazard Stacking. Teams that solely rely on Mega Aggron to deal with Choice Band Azumarill do not have stellar longevity against it. The same can be held true for Volcanion teams as well. Their lack of ways to heal from the heavy hits they take from Azumarill makes them short term answers at best. Tangrowth has Regenerator for this very instance, but it is very suspectible to being lost entirely after hazards such as Stealth Rocks or Spikes are placed since they grant Azumariil a high chance to 2HKO a physically defensive Tangrowth with Band Play Rough. Pokemon such as Bulky Roserade or Milotic are incredibly low in usage while also not being particularly good checks to begin with.

Belly Drum sets are less consistent than Choice Band sets but it trades that consistency for the ability to wipe out Mega Aggron and Tangrowth immediately while also easily trading against staples such as Latias and Okidogi. It does have hard revenge killers such as Zarude, Tapu Bulu, and Mega Sceptile but they come at the cost of being harder to prep against Choice Band variants of Azumarill. Anything else doesn't really respond well to Belly Drum at all.

I should clarify that if we had more time or had significantly less impactful drops then we would've probably given Azumarill more time, but a lot of us on council are really concerned about tier perception right now as we try to fight for (and to keep) spots at the table in various team tournaments with RUGL being the most recent example of this. It could be worth rediscussing at a more stablized point.

In the meantime, run Crawdaunt instead! I think it would be really funny to figure out that it's also broken (probably not but one could dream lol).