Resource SS NU Viability Ranking Thread

[Mariannabelle]

Some general noms;

Small Rise: Nasty Plot sets are very good against crucial pokemon; extremely versatile pokemon as well. healing wish is underutilized and can re-enable a lot of threatening stuff like glast/id zong/ etc

Small Drop: Outclassed, kinda requires wish support to be a solid defensive presence. wallbreaking good but held by crap speed that leaves it vulnerable to a lot of stuff
still a good mon but not worth S-

Small drop: Good mons but imo comparatively less potent than the other things in a crowded viability tier

drop: retains a niche with a ghost stab that doesnt conflict with knock off, but still. outclassed and vally formes are just not good

drop: hard to sell a steel that cant wall fairies reliably with a crippling weakness to mystical fire; also slow for a wallbreaker. cress is gone.

small rise? I think it’s an underrated mon. for a wallbreaker of its caliber, it has a pretty nutty speed tier, and scarf head smash is one of the most potent RK tools in the tier. draws in and forces heavy damage on prominent mons, enabling other stuff

Not an official nom Ig but Ribombee may deserve to be ranked as a better Comfey; it’s a fairy that outspeeds and threatens Salazzle with Psychic, in addition to soft-checking a lot of other stuff. (speed tier is bonkers); U-turns on Steel-types. Still carries utility options like Defog and Aromatherapy that other fairies have, while doing the above. specs sets can still use switcheroo to mess stuff up

 

[S1nn0hC0nfirm3d]

I'll add a couple rises here

A- > A: It's the premier phys wall, 2nd only to Diancie, but Diancie falls short on a lot of wallbreakers / can be teched for with Steel coverage. Sylv + Muds is by far my favorite defensive core in the meta and covers a lot. I think it's probably not A+ worthy when Xatu is legit everywhere and it's hard to make progress vs it, and it somewhat has 4mss too and makes it annoying.

B+ > A-: Goodra compresses a lot of great defensive traits while still being a good wallbreaker with its Expert Belt set. Modest sets are faster than Exploud and Sirfetched, and its still bulky enough to tank boosted hits from Salazzle and Blastoise +wall Electric-, Water-, and Grass-types. Even Diancie and Slyveon aren't safe if its Iron Tail or Sludge Bomb. Heatproof zonger being one of the only good switch ins to this makes me believe its A rank worthy.

B- > B / B+: I think we all go back and forth with this one. To me, countering Diancie, most NP Celebi sets, and Poltergeist Ghost-types is phenomenal in this meta. Being able to spin vs Diancie is a great perk too. The offensive coverage works to hit a lot of the tier but admittedly most teams will also in turn have a counter for Dhelmise, so it for sure isn't top tier.

UR >C: For the while, Guno sets tried to pull off a ton and nothings stuck. Now, Double Dance + Weakness Policy is one of my favorite sets on HO. Stored Power + Hurricane hits almost everything in the tier very hard, and the ones it doesn't, Copper and Bronz, will still get worn down enough so other sweepers can take over once they're chipped. Guno also lives Diamond Storm from Diancie and Tbolt / Volt Switch from Mowtom, which are just a couple of the common attacks that trigger WP. Of course this set has a degree of fishing / catching the opp off guard to work perfectly, but even when the opp's in the know then there's still a lot of natural sweeping ability with Modest Hurrican + Agility, and / or using CM on weaker attackers. Lastly, having the same typing as Xatu actually works very well with WP and its not a constraint on HO like I once thought. I peaked 1580~ over vaction with a new guno HO team, here's some replays.
7 turn win after the Agility when Daincie Diamond Storms.
Tanks the Volt Switch AND the Shadow Sneak, sweeps the last 4 mons.

UR > C: Spamming Eforce is fun. Its like a slightly faster Exploud when you do 4 attacks Choice Specs. Like Exploud, there's a lot of good supportive mons that chip Steel-types to make it easier to spam, but the fact that Dark-types also stop the spam is tough. I like the extra power, the speed, and even the anti-priority protection can be good if you pair it with a scarfer.
Indeedee ends up cleaning, even vs a Bronz + Drapion team.
Indeedee vs only a frail Psychic resist in NUPL

 

[roxie]

Xatu isn't the only thing that worries me when adding Mudsdale to the team but it's how it actually performs in the overall match. When I personally use Mudsdale, I find that it invites so many checks/counters like Decidueye, Celebi, Weezing, Talonflame, and Arcanine. Smack Down does hit Flying-types but the damage output is just really poor and then it can be straightup forced out by Xatu. Other Stealth Rockers like Diancie, Rhydon, and Bronzong all have their ways of pressuring Flying-types effectively with powerful Rock STAB moves (Diancie/Rhydon) or Trick/Rest (Bronzong).

Drapion is like the supreme check(No consistent recovery) to Drapion and this is unrelated to Mudsdale's viability but I've been getting mixed feelings about Drapion to its lack of defensive counters in the metagame. Nothing in the tier likes Swords Dance + Knock Off, even Mudsdale doesn't. I emphasized check because often when I'm glueing Mudsdale to a team, Drapion can use something like Knock Off + Toxic Spikes and break past the horse pretty quickly. I also feel like Chesto Berry or even Itemless Mudsdale sets are good because of Choice Band Poltergeist mons and Knock Off users like Drapion. Defensive Guzzlord is also an option but Leech Life is starting to be used to target Guzzlord and Colbur Celebi, giving it more longevity in the match.

Looking at the other defensive users in the A ranking, Vaporeon and Xatu, I feel like their impact on the metagame is quite more significant with Vaporeon dismantling Water-types like Blastoise, providing team support in Wish+Hbell, and punishing Pokemon that will attempt switching in with Scald while Xatu being pretty customizable in set and ev. Its momentum in U-turn and Teleport allows it to switch out on Dark-types that will try coming in on it while also having Roost for longevity. Physical breakers like Toxicroak, Sirfetch'd, Golurk (if Mudsdale is not itemless) and just the move Knock Off urges me to keep Mudsdale at A-.

 

[Pokeslice]

S- --> A
Even though I never saw this mon as S tier, everyone has to admit that Copper has fallen off HARD. With Bronzong overtaking Copper on the VR, it's hard to find a reason to justify this as your Steel right now. Zong just provides more utility, more resistances, and a more potent offensive set in ID BP. On top of that, Guzz and Xatu have once again seen a spike in usage, making Copper even harder to run. AV sets are powerful, but often too slow or super prediction reliant, and SR sets are absolute trash. I'd use any of A+ and half of A and A- over Copper in the current tier.

/ Flip Them
Dragalge hasn't belonged in A+ in a very very very very long time. Hell I'd argue it never did. It simply doesn't check much at all, especially what you want it too, doesn't really threaten much, and T Spikes are kinda terrible in this meta where Croak, Lazzle, Garb, Plume, or Drapion are everywhere. I guess it can flip into Fetch'd? If Vap was S tier again maybe you could justify it in A+, but it's a whole tier below the rest of A, let alone A+

On the other hand, Guzzlord is easily one of the best Pokemon in the meta, with a great defensive typing, multiple potent sets (s/o speedy Heavy Slam to pop Sylv), great stats, and an annoying Knock Off. I have never regretted slotting this mon on a team especially with how it holds back demons like Salazzle and Starmie, can threaten Xatu or tier staple Zong, or just provide a sturdy backbone thanks to its slew of resistances. Easily an A+ mon rn and definitely the better Dragon of these two.

A- --> A
Stupid good mon that can break through entire teams by itself and can even pick its counters thanks to moveset variations like EQ, Knock Off, Low Kick, Sucker Punch, etc. Croak puts in work game in and game out, especially as Guzz / Sylv or Vap cores see more usage. Easily an A tier mon that just...wins sometimes.

Small drop: Good mons but imo comparatively less potent than the other things in a crowded viability tier

Hard disagree here. Plume still belongs in A-. Yes Xatu and Goodra cause it problems, and often Zong unless it's ID BP, Plume can straight up wall or beat entire teams, especially ones that don't take it into account. At the same time it's a CC deterent that can spread paralysis and check Mowtom. It isn't the top tier threat it was for a bit, but it's definitely still an A- mon.

B+ --> A-
I think Garb deserves a slight rise right now, seeing a huge uptick in usage thanks to it beating Sirfetch'd, Croak, Sylveon, etc while setting up Spikes. It fills a lot of holes in the builder and can also lay out solid chip damage everywhere. It does suffer from Zong and Xatu, but its pros outweigh the cons.

UR --> C maybe C- idc Rabia stop the Gunfisk hate it's usable :(

See? I'm not crazy

It's time we put Stunfisk-G back on the VR. At the end of the day, this mon provides fantastic compression as a Volt immunity, Steel type, and Stealth Rocker while being extremely hard to KO thanks to really excellent HP, Spdef, and Def. It also has a solid movepool with moves like Ice Fang, Stone Edge, or even Snap Trap+Yawn shenanigans to mess with switch ins. It's also one of two volt absorbers that doesn't die to Leaf Storm, making facing Scarf Mowtom a LOT easier. Yes it can be a bit passive (give Fisk Toxic GF!), but with the compression it provides, it really is a viable choice in the builder and definitely worthy of a C rank on the VR.

Replay: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1365710867-7s85n6f37dl559ssfnj9hhwyjdt8sappw even in a game with Xatu, Fisk repeatedly takes Exploud and Lisk hits and gets Xatu low to capitalize off of it.

 

[roxie]

I have to agree with the Copperajah nomination from S- rank and I've make like 4 posts about its viability in comparison to Bronzong. The Galarian Stunfisk nomination seems solid after actually testing the Pokemon. It's Ground / Steel typing is really nice for the Electric spam (Heliolisk+Rotom-C) in the tier while also having pretty good bulk to support its typing. I've been testing the set Turtledoggo had on one of his teams with Yawn + Snap Trap its pretty crazy and I felt like Yawn gave me safer opportunities to bring teammates in. It also has Stone Edge for Flying-types like Xatu and Talonflame. I don't have an issue with our D rankings being heavy and considering how Ground-types are threatened by Grass Knot / Leaf Storm from the aforementioned Electric-types, I think it should deserve being ranked.

Silvally-Steel is good and I find its utility in Parting Shot or U-turn + Defog to be pretty neat. Its not something you slap on every team but above is a team built around Iron Tail Goodra to support Bulk Up Scrafty. Diancie sets Stealth Rock and acts as Dragon immunity but thinking about Dragon-types and the actual team, Diancie can get worn down by Iron Tail / Hydro Pump / Sludge Bomb and an additional resistance/immunity feels ideal for me to run. Silvally-Steel was the perfect Pokemon because not only it helped with Dragon-types, its forces Fairy-types out and has momentum in U-turn/Parting Shot which is great for this team. Ninjask likes the slow U-turn from Silvally-Steel and finally, Weezing checks Fighting-types and Ghost-types (using Itemless).

I feel like Guzzlord is underrated but meri berry and I can agree that Guzzlord and Dragalge's place in the metagame isn't comparable.

Logs

 

[Finchinator]

Goodra to A-

It offers a unique offensive presence with varied coverage and unparalleled special bulk for a strong enough special attacker. Obviously it has some flaws — things can still check it comfortable despite coverage, it is not the absolute fastest, it has comparatively mediocre physical bulk, and it lacks recover — but it is a clear cut above the current B+ pokemon. I see a lot of it recently and I believe it meshes well with the current low A rank crowd in terms of both usage and niche.

Small drop: Good mons but imo comparatively less potent than the other things in a crowded viability tier

I actually disagree with all 3, but I understand why — perhaps they see less usage right now than at their peak, especially with regards to Toxicroak being a menace earlier in the generation and Vileplume being a top tier Pokemon at times itself. However, we have a lot of really good poison types right now and these two still have very distinct niches that warrant consistent consideration on teams. Croak is virtually unwallable at first sight and while there are shortcomings — limits to what it can do and how long it can due it due to how fragile it is — it still is enough for A- imo. Vileplume I actually consider on par with Drapion in A even, but. OT sure many others agree. Regardless, it walls so many pokemon and strength sap is immensely helpful rn. I implore people to give Growth variants a try, too, as it’s sneaky threatening. As for Glastrier, I feel like it’s really great at carrying its own weight, but understandably harder to fit. I would not budge with it quite yet, but I see why people are uncertain.

 

[Catalisador]

Quick thoughts!

Neutral

stay S-
The elephant still provides quite a lot of defensive and, specially, in my opinion, offensive utility in the current metagame. Assault Vest sets are excellent, mantaining a high offensive presence while soft-checking a vast portion of the metagame's biggest threats such as Blastoise, Exploud, Dragon-types, etc., while Stealth Rock sets mantain their unique utility by providing a rocker that can effectively threaten all of our most common defoggers and spinners.

Rises

A+ -> S-
I've been experimenting a lot with Sub + Disable Salazzle as of lately and I believe that it should absolutely see a rise. Not only are annoying utility Toxic + Protect sets (and their variations) incredibly difficult to deal with and switch around, the common offensive sets are an incredible menance with an unparalleled speed tier and perfect coverage in dual STAB + Dragon Pulse. In my opinion, one of the most versatile and potent pokémon in the metagame.

SubDisable Salazzle replay vs. turtledoggo1 showcasing how the lizard bypasses common checks to other of its sets (mainly NP): https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1397703220
SubDisable Salazzle replay vs. GW's own NP + Overheat Salazzle, both sides showing the effectiveness of both sets: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1394763774

A -> A+ / maybe even S-
Not sure how everybody feels about Drapion, but I personally think it is an extremely powerful, versatile and meta-defining pokémon. It is an excellent check to the likes of Xatu and Bronzong, can provide Toxic Spikes and Taunt utility or even provide an excellent breaker to common defensive cores with its SD sets. I'd personally say it is absolutely one of the best pokémon in the metagame.

B+ -> A- / A
I'll admit, I did hate on Goodra for quite a while. However, as of right now, it provides an excellent special wall with offensive utility that can be easily slapped on teams as a glue. Assault Vest sets are my favourite as of right now, providing a special sponge with some breaking abilities and decent speed tier.

A -> A+
The best Bronzong check in the metagame, Xatu is an excellent defensive glue for teams with quite a lot of versatility. Itemless, Colbur Berry and even Choice Scarf sets are all incredible variations to try on this pokémon. Xatu's versatility and spammability should be definitely reflected in the VR, imo.

A- -> A / A+
Another excellent, spammable, glue pokémon. I think Guzzlord's spammability and sheer power warrant it a rise.

B+ --> A-
I think Garb deserves a slight rise right now, seeing a huge uptick in usage thanks to it beating Sirfetch'd, Croak, Sylveon, etc while setting up Spikes. It fills a lot of holes in the builder and can also lay out solid chip damage everywhere. It does suffer from Zong and Xatu, but its pros outweigh the cons.

Agreed!

Drops

A+ -> A
I just personally don't think Sylveon posseses quite enough utility in the current metagame to warrant such a high position on the VR, being setup fodder for Bronzong at best, quite despising weak to Knock Off, and being weak to some trending pokémon such as offensive Ghost-types, common Poison-types in Drapion and Garbodor, etc..

 

[Corthius]

A -> A+ / maybe even S-
Not sure how everybody feels about Drapion, but I personally think it is an extremely powerful, versatile and meta-defining pokémon. It is an excellent check to the likes of Xatu and Bronzong, can provide Toxic Spikes and Taunt utility or even provide an excellent breaker to common defensive cores with its SD sets. I'd personally say it is absolutely one of the best pokémon in the metagame.

Not sure on S- but for sure A+.
Drapion benefits from an amazing offensive typing and arguably the best move in the meta, Knock Off. Combine that with utility and boosting options like Taunt, Swords Dance & Toxic (Spikes) and coverage in Earthquake, Aqua Tail and Leech Life makes it really tough to check and allows it to excel at breaking balance cores. Even with roadblocks like Mudsdale and checks like Diancie, Guzzlord and opposing Drapion (funnily enough) nothing in the current meta enjoys Knock Off, as it often removes valuable recovery from Leftovers/Black Sludge.
I can only agree with this: it is an extremely powerful, versatile and meta-defining pokemon.

(ground) at least C rank but tbh I think its worth somewhere B-/B
Ever since I first saw this used by Expulso it caught my eye and honestly, im just in love with it. It is an almost perfect Drapion check (only downside is the speedtie and potential Aqua Tail) which already gives it a huge niche imo. Furthermore, it compresses Flygon a little bit as well in being a fast ground type outspeeding Rotom-C with access to U-turn which makes the 50/50 vs non-Choice Scarf sets way easier and punished Rotom-C teams a lot by gaining momentum. Edgequake coverage is well known for being really good and all Silvally formes pack a solid punch at +2 with Multi. There are for sure common pokemon like Bronzong, Vileplume and Celebi who prevent it from being ranked higher but that is fine imo.
You should give it a try!

don't rank gunfisk

 

[Rabia]

update this weekend, locking until that is done and posted

 

[Rabia]

irl commitments from vr people slowed this down, but here's the pre-scl update

rises and drops

Rises:
A -> A+
A -> A+
A- -> A
A- -> A
B+ -> A-
(ground) UR -> C+
UR -> C
UR -> C
UR -> C
UR -> C
(steel) UR -> C

Drops:
S- -> A+
A+ -> A
A -> A-
A- -> B+
B- -> C+
C+ -> C
C+ -> UR
C -> UR
C -> UR
C -> UR
C -> UR
C -> UR
C -> UR
C -> UR

reasonings

Rises:
A -> A+: Celebi continues to see great success because of how adept it is at taking advantage of passive, status-reliant Pokemon like Bronzong, Vaporeon, and Mudsdale. It finds a lot of opportunities to boost up and tear through teams, and it really only needs two attacks to do so. It's still pretty easy to keep contained offensively, but Celebi is no longer the meme of the tier like it was some months ago.
A -> A+: Drapion is really consistent at making progress through teams with Knock Off and poisons from Poison Jab. Although teams will rarely fold to it at preview because of how weak it is without boosting, at +2 Drapion can make pretty decent headway into teams that lack Mudsdale or Guzzlord.
A- -> A: Golurk has virtually no defensive counterplay. You're basically tasked with winning coinflips every turn if it gets in safely. Rock Polish is also a really cool tech that sees a fair bit of usage nowadays, helping alleviate Golurk's biggest handicap: its pretty poor Speed.
A- -> A: Guzzlord is both a great wallbreaker and defensive presence. It helps contain offensive threats like Starmie, Salazzle, and Decidueye while not making your team passive as fuck. Sometimes, Guzzlord teams can feel a little slow, but NU has enough fast options in the tier to make up for it.
B+ -> A-: Goodra has seen a good rise in usage lately as more people explored Expert Belt sets to make the most of its great coverage. It can lure in and take out traditional answers to Dragon-types, namely Diancie, Sylveon, and Mantine, with Iron Tail and Thunderbolt. The insane special bulk is also really helpful, letting it check foes like Rotom-C, Celebi, and Starmie pretty comfortably.
(ground) UR -> C+: Silvally-Ground is a niche but effective sweeper. It has just enough coverage between Multi-Attack, Rock Slide, and Flame Charge to hit standard Ground-type checks and greatly benefits from Bronzong usually forgoing Levitate in favor of Heatproof.
UR -> C:
"it role compresses a helio check, momentum, and a water
[11:43 PM]
av can deal with rotom-mow kind of because it uses beam and lives storm
[11:43 PM]
mostly you're using defensive heal bell/tect w tox
[11:43 PM]
and it tends to be servicable
[11:44 PM]
helps with lazzle too"
Thanks Meri Berry
UR -> C:
UR -> C: Sand has demonstrated enough ladder consistency to warrant placement. Its got enough pivot support with options like Dragalge and Rotom-C to make the most of sand turns, and Lycanroc + Sandslash is a pretty strong offensive core that overwhelms shared defensive stops.
UR -> C: Ribombee's Quiver Dance set is a fine late-game cleaner if you get rid of your opponent's Steel-type, which isn't too hard to do with Magneton support.
(steel) UR -> C: :) it pivots and checks Dragon- and Fairy-types

Drops:
S- -> A+: Copperajah continues to exist in this weird place where it still has a lot of raw value between its bulk and power but generally fails to make the most of it all. Teams can keep it contained offensively quite easily because its Speed is pretty awful even when invested in, and defensive answers like Bronzong, Talonflame, and Guzzlord are everywhere. The competition with Bronzong for the Steel-type slot has died down in some regards because of Diancie and Mudsdale letting Copperajah run its better sets more easily, but Bronzong's abilities and access to Iron Defense make it less vulnerable to coverage attacks and make it a late-game terror if the opponent can't quickly remove it.
A+ -> A: Sirfetch'd is still an insane breaker capable of cheesing past answers if it scores critical hits at the right time, and Choice Band sets are about as effective as ever. The main issue for Sirfetch'd is how prominent Talonflame is in addition to the plethora of other Fighting-resistant options, which make it harder to arbitrarily get through teams. Sirfetch'd's Speed also continues to be somewhat of an issue because of its really unimpressive defensive traits, which harms it in comparison to other wallbreakers like Celebi, Starmie, and Toxicroak.
A -> A-: Surely to be controversial, Vaporeon is not the premier defensive pick it was metas ago. We've seen a continued rise of Pokemon like Rest + Iron Defense Bronzong, Nasty Plot Rotom-C, Recover Starmie, Celebi, and others that either negate Vaporeon's effectiveness against specific Pokemon or just outright make its life hell. There's definitely room for adaptation, such as Pokeslice noting Toxic as a great option, but these techs have severe opportunity cost. Vaporeon still serves as a great cleric, Wish passer, and answer to foes like Salazzle, but it's not the defining Pokemon it was in the past.
A- -> B+: Glastrier is very awkward. On paper, its stats should make it capable of blanket checking half the tier and smashing the other half with powerful attacks. However, Ice on its own sucks defensively, which limits Glastrier's defensive capabilities; its Speed sucks, meaning it suffers like Copperajah from having to trade hits to get off its damage; and the rise of Bronzong has severely hampered its ability to make progress.
B- -> C+: Aerodactyl is not good at getting past the common Rock-type checks that are plentiful in the tier. Other fast wallbreakers like Tauros, Starmie, and Salazzle are more consistent options because their defensive counterplay is more vulnerable to being taken out over time.
C+ -> C: Absol's lacking bulk, middling Speed, and reliance on Sucker Punch to pick off faster threats make it require pretty hefty support to get good mileage out of. Guzzlord is a superior option here despite the even more lacking Speed because of how much defensive utility it provides.
C+ -> UR: Charizard can set itself apart from Talonflame somewhat because of its much superior power, but that hasn't been enough for it to truly solidify a place in the metagame. Salazzle is a better wallbreaker, and defensively answering Charizard is really easy, which makes the lack of U-turn a pretty big downgrade from Talonflame.
C -> UR: Ferroseed had a little bit of use in the NU Snake tour but never really picked up at all afterwards. It's a fine answer to foes like Starmie and Dragalge and one of a few available Spikers, but it's really hard to justify using unless you really need the role compression.
C -> UR: Omastar seldom saw use as was because Blastoise has historically outclassed it as a Shell Smash sweeper, and with Blastoise's continued decline, Omastar too has lost any real reason to be used.
C -> UR:
C -> UR: Electric Terrain never caught on after Flygon's departure, and the continued high usage of Pokemon like Celebi, Sirfetch'd, and Rotom-C makes this offense archetype hard to pull off.
C -> UR: As we said in the last update, Uxie is likely to fluctuate between being ranked and being unranked. We're now unranking it because while it's usable, it's just not present enough currently to justify placement on the VR.
C -> UR: Virizion is outdone by its competition to a really horrible degree. The Speed is a plus over options like Celebi, Rotom-C, and Toxicroak, but the lack of any immediate power and awkward choices it has to make for its coverage slots severely hinder it.
C -> UR: Zoroark has never established a meaningful niche in the tier outside of a bit earlier this year where Choice Scarf was an alright set. It struggles greatly with Diancie and Guzzlord prevalence and requires setup to break through teams.

 

[Corthius]

UR -> C

We fcking did it

(steel) C --> C+/B-
Ok I know I've been hating on this mon for a long time but you know, Slice also hated on Drapion and Decidueye and loves them now.
It's role compression is unique and very valuable on offensive VoltTurn teams. You can kinda compare it to Comfey in that regard as both check certain pokemon but compress the role of a bulky pivot and hazard control. The only big benefit Comfey has is recovery which is one of the biggest flaws to Silvally-Steel. As an hazard control option it is pretty weak to those itself, thus making the matchup versus Spikes harder (luckily they aren't really common). Overall I still think it is way more useful and viable than the other pokemon ranked in C tier.

 

[wooper]

(steel) C --> C+/B-
Ok I know I've been hating on this mon for a long time but you know, Slice also hated on Drapion and Decidueye and loves them now.
It's role compression is unique and very valuable on offensive VoltTurn teams. You can kinda compare it to Comfey in that regard as both check certain pokemon but compress the role of a bulky pivot and hazard control. The only big benefit Comfey has is recovery which is one of the biggest flaws to Silvally-Steel. As an hazard control option it is pretty weak to those itself, thus making the matchup versus Spikes harder (luckily they aren't really common). Overall I still think it is way more useful and viable than the other pokemon ranked in C tier.

ive used this set to varying degrees of success personally. it's not great, but not terrible either. like you said, it offers some nice role compression as hazard control, a pivot, and even a mon that can stomach hits from unboosted mowtom quite nicely. i think it fits fine in C or C+

i run flash cannon over multi so that i dont weaken flamethrower specifically for mowtom, and 184 speed evs with timid hits 299, one point faster than timid max speed mowtom. you totally could run multi with a jolly nature, which still does more damage to max hp max physdef diancie.

just some calcs

252 SpA Rotom-Mow Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 72 SpD Silvally-Steel: 89-105 (22.5 - 26.6%) -- 22.3% chance to 4HKO
252 SpA Rotom-Mow Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 72 SpD Silvally-Steel: 123-145 (31.2 - 36.8%) -- 75.5% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Rotom-Mow Volt Switch vs. 252 HP / 72 SpD Silvally-Steel: 96-114 (24.3 - 28.9%) -- 99.3% chance to 4HKO
+2 252 SpA Rotom-Mow Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 72 SpD Silvally-Steel: 246-289 (62.4 - 73.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0 SpA Silvally-Steel Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Rotom-Mow: 118-140 (48.9 - 58%) -- 95.7% chance to 2HKO
0 SpA Silvally-Steel Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Rotom-Mow: 118-140 (48.9 - 58%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

4 Def Diancie Body Press vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Silvally-Steel: 172-204 (43.6 - 51.7%) -- 9% chance to 2HKO
252+ Def Diancie Body Press vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Silvally-Steel: 224-264 (56.8 - 67%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0 SpA Silvally-Steel Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Diancie: 180-216 (59.2 - 71%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Silvally-Steel Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Diancie: 232-280 (76.3 - 92.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Silvally-Steel Multi-Attack vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Diancie: 268-324 (88.1 - 106.5%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO (guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock)

bonus: heres the team i made with the vally itself. it's a bit dated, but if anyone wanted to try it out for themselves then be my guest. not sure if i have any replays with it though. if i do and i find them, i'll add them in here

 

[turtledoggo1]

some small noms (the sprites would totally be better if I was not on mobile)

- ground: -> B-/B

Personally I think it deserves a higher ranking than it is currently. It should be ranked higher than Ghostvally, or at least on the same level imo. Personally I find groundvally easier to fit on a team and easier to build around compared to Ghostvally.

SD sets are great and are able to be a good late-game cleaner, and doesn't have much trouble defeating its checks. Against a healthy Mudsdale or Vaporeon, it's able to just U-Turn on them and switch out into a teammate who can abuse them. Flame Charge is also a viable option and can make the sweeps even more dangerous.

Pivot sets are also decent, and can provide decent compression for some teams. Similar to flygon it can be a defogger and pivot. Its speed tier is good allowing it to threaten out things like Goodra, Toxicroak, Mowtom potentially etc.. and makes the opponent think twice about clicking volt switch. You also have a resistance to SR which while minor, can make that extra difference in some MU's

> C+/B-

Duraludon is great and imo warrants a rise. The move combination of Dragon/Steel/Dark hits a lot of the tier for good damage, and for a lot of teams a Bronzong/diancie is their only answer to a Dragon type. Dark Pulse will do around like 45~ (may vary) but generally around that range. Even if they Body Press you (they won't ohko you) you can use Draco Meteor and bail with Eject Pack. You can also flinch as well.

Duraludon can serve as great support for its teammates. Capable of acting as a one time pivot, wallbreaker and SR setter that can beat Xatu. It's able to switch into quite a few Pokemon such as Talonflame, bulky Poisons, some resisted attacks etc.. and is able to dish out very strong damage in return. It's more commonly seen on HO but I've been having good success with it on balance teams as well. Even with your eject pack consumed you can still force a Vaporeon to wish, or force good damage on a Copperjah, helping break them down for other teammates

> A

I think Copperajah should drop to A. Personally for me I feel as if Bronzong is just way more splashable, like way more splashable on teams. The only times I ever use Copperjah is when I need a Blastoise answer, which is not that often. It's slow, it lacks recovery so you are chipped very easily (wish passers are worse and it's unreliable) and you aren't able to check things like Exploud and Goodra as well as Bronzong. I've found that it is very prediction reliant vs a lot of teams, especially against Vaporeon/Mudsdale/Talonflame builds, or team structures similar. Copperajah is still a fine mon but should drop to A.

 

[GW]

some small noms (the sprites would totally be better if I was not on mobile)

- ground: -> B-/B

Personally I think it deserves a higher ranking than it is currently. It should be ranked higher than Ghostvally, or at least on the same level imo. Personally I find groundvally easier to fit on a team and easier to build around compared to Ghostvally.

SD sets are great and are able to be a good late-game cleaner, and doesn't have much trouble defeating its checks. Against a healthy Mudsdale or Vaporeon, it's able to just U-Turn on them and switch out into a teammate who can abuse them. Flame Charge is also a viable option and can make the sweeps even more dangerous.

Pivot sets are also decent, and can provide decent compression for some teams. Similar to flygon it can be a defogger and pivot. Its speed tier is good allowing it to threaten out things like Goodra, Toxicroak, Mowtom potentially etc.. and makes the opponent think twice about clicking volt switch. You also have a resistance to SR which while minor, can make that extra difference in some MU's

> C+/B-

Duraludon is great and imo warrants a rise. The move combination of Dragon/Steel/Dark hits a lot of the tier for good damage, and for a lot of teams a Bronzong/diancie is their only answer to a Dragon type. Dark Pulse will do around like 45~ (may vary) but generally around that range. Even if they Body Press you (they won't ohko you) you can use Draco Meteor and bail with Eject Pack. You can also flinch as well.

Duraludon can serve as great support for its teammates. Capable of acting as a one time pivot, wallbreaker and SR setter that can beat Xatu. It's able to switch into quite a few Pokemon such as Talonflame, bulky Poisons, some resisted attacks etc.. and is able to dish out very strong damage in return. It's more commonly seen on HO but I've been having good success with it on balance teams as well. Even with your eject pack consumed you can still force a Vaporeon to wish, or force good damage on a Copperjah, helping break them down for other teammates

> A

I think Copperajah should drop to A. Personally for me I feel as if Bronzong is just way more splashable, like way more splashable on teams. The only times I ever use Copperjah is when I need a Blastoise answer, which is not that often. It's slow, it lacks recovery so you are chipped very easily (wish passers are worse and it's unreliable) and you aren't able to check things like Exploud and Goodra as well as Bronzong. I've found that it is very prediction reliant vs a lot of teams, especially against Vaporeon/Mudsdale/Talonflame builds, or team structures similar. Copperajah is still a fine mon but should drop to A.

I think part of the reason Copperajah is still thought of highly is because of how mandatory a steel type is for nearly every team in this tier for the Fairies and Dragons. It also has insane attack and one of the most diverse and powerful movesets I have ever seen on a single Pokemon. Flame Body Talonflame is annoying, but you can always suprise KO it with stone edge, and if Bronzong is annoying to you, you can just run Earthquake to still hit Salazzle and get a ton of damage on Heatproof Bronzong on the Switchin. You can even run superpower if you really hate Guzzlord. It is slow, but it is still an excellent check to Starmie and Sylveon, and can still check Goodra and Exploud as long as you are not running a team that is too slow and passive overall that give those pokemon too many opportunities, it is a highly solid and customizable pokemon moveset-wise that I could see staying at A+. The other 2 noms I mostly agree with, Silvally ground and Duraludon are cool :D

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1403761490-u3ix7r9hoejgejpy0toraogb1e4rblypw 1 example of Copperajah checking half of a team on its own essentially

 

[Catalisador]

- ground: -> B-/B

Personally I think it deserves a higher ranking than it is currently. It should be ranked higher than Ghostvally, or at least on the same level imo. Personally I find groundvally easier to fit on a team and easier to build around compared to Ghostvally.

SD sets are great and are able to be a good late-game cleaner, and doesn't have much trouble defeating its checks. Against a healthy Mudsdale or Vaporeon, it's able to just U-Turn on them and switch out into a teammate who can abuse them. Flame Charge is also a viable option and can make the sweeps even more dangerous.

Pivot sets are also decent, and can provide decent compression for some teams. Similar to flygon it can be a defogger and pivot. Its speed tier is good allowing it to threaten out things like Goodra, Toxicroak, Mowtom potentially etc.. and makes the opponent think twice about clicking volt switch. You also have a resistance to SR which while minor, can make that extra difference in some MU's

Agreed!

> C+/B-

Duraludon is great and imo warrants a rise. The move combination of Dragon/Steel/Dark hits a lot of the tier for good damage, and for a lot of teams a Bronzong/diancie is their only answer to a Dragon type. Dark Pulse will do around like 45~ (may vary) but generally around that range. Even if they Body Press you (they won't ohko you) you can use Draco Meteor and bail with Eject Pack. You can also flinch as well.

Duraludon can serve as great support for its teammates. Capable of acting as a one time pivot, wallbreaker and SR setter that can beat Xatu. It's able to switch into quite a few Pokemon such as Talonflame, bulky Poisons, some resisted attacks etc.. and is able to dish out very strong damage in return. It's more commonly seen on HO but I've been having good success with it on balance teams as well. Even with your eject pack consumed you can still force a Vaporeon to wish, or force good damage on a Copperjah, helping break them down for other teammates

Absolutely agreed!

C -> UR

Disrespectful! :'(

A+ -> S- / S

Arguably one of the most splashable and consistent defensive pokémon in the metagame, Diancie is able to blanket check almost half the current SS NU metagame with its sheer bulk and extremely solid resistances. Furthermore, access to Diamond Storm as a reliable Rock-type STAB that can also promote an increase on its physical bulk and enhance the power of its coverage Body Press makes it a reliable late-game win condition.

Moreover, recently, I"ve been toying around with offensive variants of Diancie (mainly Meteor Beam variations). They always provide an extremely solid breaker and general win-condition. Also, the sheer unpredictability of the set makes offensive variants of Diancie able to chip down common methods of Diancie counterplay such as, Rotom-Mow Mudsdale and Golurk with strong STAB Moonblast or Meteor Beam (which just OHKOes Rotom-Mow on the switch/if you get a Rock Polish off).

Replays vs turtledoggo1 showcasing Meteor Beam Diancie's stronghold over hyper-offensive playstyles: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1408237314-k5pkxnn3ijfo19kuppfjvim2585o2d1pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1407757033-8hqrt2ynn10he9ylstq813mgbzfw434pw

Replay vs xbossarux showcasing how offensive Diancie mantains its durability while presenting an offensive threat to the opposing team. Although I did lose the match to a 50/50, Diancie put in mad work! :P https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1405863602

Replay vs. PSPL winner minigod94: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1408930323-dtz0dfwpzcxd0vf7e09wf40jpx3aowwpw

just a shoutout, for now!

I've been playing around with defensive variants of Scrafty lately and they show immense potential. Checking the likes of Copperajah, Decidueye and Dhelmise, Golurk, Guzzlord, Glastrier, the rising-star Sneasel and even Tauros, I believe defensive Scrafty to be a hidden gem! With Intimidate further increasing its bulk or Shed Skin to get access to a somewhat reliable recovery in Rest, coupled with utility options in Knock Off and Bulk Up, this lizard definitely deserves a shoutout and y'all should explore it a tad bit more, too!

Replay vs. turtledoggo1 showcasing Scrafty's ability to pivot into powerful offensive threats. It also showcases Silvally-Ground's promising power! https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1406846207-p6gudlsqddsr63u93mb8yrmtydbcoa7pw

Other shoutouts:



Edit: adding more replays! :)

 

[Expulso]

diancie's great but i definitely disagree on it going into S ranks, it can be exploited pretty hard by u-turn into some of the most threatening breakers in the tier (starmie, celebi, golurk -- golurk can even switch directly in on anything whereas starmie/celebi are at least dented by diamond storm). additionally, its low speed and quad weakness to Steel enable many of the things it wants to check to outright beat it with steel coverage -- iron tail goodra and fast heavy slam guzzlord are the two most prominent examples of this.



i moreso wanted to talk about vaporeon. sure, it doesnt wall 6/6 mons (usually), but it is an extremely good pokemon that I believe should never have fallen out of A. it might not be able to beat down every mon with scald + wishtect anymore, but it remains extremely useful due to its ability to heal up the checks/counters to the pokemon that force vaporeon out. for instance -- the opponent's gonna send np celebi in versus vaporeon? ok, let me toss up a wish and get my copperajah / drapion healthy enough to force it out, keeping momentum on my side. same with toxicroak -- you can heal up mudsdale, which makes you fine against anything but ada lowkick, and having a xatu/tflame/etc. alongside muds puts them in the position where they need to get 50-50s right to avoid losing momentum as your whole team remains healthy. the omnipresent mowtom coming in on vapo? no worries -- your vileplume/celebi/decidueye/guzzlord/et. al. will be fully healthy and you'll have all the momentum unless they volt, which vapo actually heals off since it is extremely fat and volt does negligible damage.

i think this update drastically underestimates vaporeon's impact on the meta. beating it requires a conscious effort both in the builder and in-game -- i always consider what 'Vaporeon beater' to add to a team and how to keep it from getting too many free turns, and no pokemon that requires that degree of conscious effort to prepare for belongs in A- rank.

agree with most to all other changes, especially guzzlord rising.

 

[Stories]

I find a lot of the VR to be very accurate and reflective of the current metagame, good job to the VR council :)

My only differing thoughts are:

B -> B+
Although I'm not personally a fan of Passimian, there's no denying its increased usage, phenomenal attack stat and naturally great bulk, customizable movepool, and (despite slower than Mowtom) a great Choice Scarf holder coupled with U-Turn. I'm not sure where exactly I think it should place on the VR, but I know it's definitely better than the other B ranked mons.

(Ghost) B -> C
We all know what this thing can do on paper; great bulk to allow it to set up with either Swords Dance, Flame Charge or Substitute, a 120 BP Ghost move and X-Scizzor for Dark types, a fantastic speed tier, and overall a great addition to hyper-offense. Unfortunately the meta just isn't kind to Silvally-Ghost right now. Every other Ghost type has some other aspect to it that allows it to prosper in a metagame so strapped for Ghost checks. Golurk can offensively threaten many Ghost switchins such as Drapion with Earthquake, and Guzzlord or Tauros with Close Combat. Decidueye is unpredictable in its set and can pack priority moves to help it muscle past faster offensive teams. these 2 aforementioned Ghosts can also hold an item, something Silvally cannot do. Beyond all that, I simply feel like every Pokemon in C+ and some in C rank are simply better than Silvally-Ghost.

A- -> A
Goodra is easily the scariest thing to face down against at team preview, until you know its set, Goodra claims something every time it comes in. Packing Iron Tail and Sludge Bomb for Fairy types like Sylveon, Diancie, and Comfey, Power Whip or Thunder(bolt) for bulky Water types like Vaporeon or Mantine, and Fire Blast or Earthquake for Steel types like Bronzong and Copperajah, this thing has the potential to beat whatever check you may have on your team if it lands its moves. Goodra stats allow for a lot of customization, with great physical and special offenses, some of the best special bulk in the game, allowing it to pivot in on many top tier threats like Rotom-Mow or Blastoise; because of this Goodra is able to have great movepool and item diversity, being able to viably run all 3 choice items, Wide Lens, Expert Belt, Heavy-Duty-Boots, Assault Vest, or Leftovers. Goodra also separates itself from other breakers like Sirfetch'd or Golurk because of its great speed tier.

this thing is broken I still hate it I always get lucked by this thing

A- -> A+
Toxicroak is the best traditional balance killer I've seen in this metagame, boasting a great speed tier compared to other breakers, and a unique typing allowing it to be immune to both Toxic and water attacks, notably walling Vaporeon and being a nice pivot overall despite its relatively frail stats. at +2 Toxicroak destroys everything that its faster than, and it can use Sucker Punch to compensate for its speed against faster Pokemon. I think this rise nomination is also reflective of its results in tournament and on ladder. Just don't look at GW's winrate on anything :)

 

[Segetarius]

Alright, new VR new noms (since I missed the deadline last time. A lot of this may sound like the same stuff others have brought up, so sorry in advance if I'm just making an echo chamber for some other posts.

> C+/B-

Duraludon is great and imo warrants a rise. The move combination of Dragon/Steel/Dark hits a lot of the tier for good damage, and for a lot of teams a Bronzong/diancie is their only answer to a Dragon type. Dark Pulse will do around like 45~ (may vary) but generally around that range. Even if they Body Press you (they won't ohko you) you can use Draco Meteor and bail with Eject Pack. You can also flinch as well.

Duraludon can serve as great support for its teammates. Capable of acting as a one time pivot, wallbreaker and SR setter that can beat Xatu. It's able to switch into quite a few Pokemon such as Talonflame, bulky Poisons, some resisted attacks etc.. and is able to dish out very strong damage in return. It's more commonly seen on HO but I've been having good success with it on balance teams as well. Even with your eject pack consumed you can still force a Vaporeon to wish, or force good damage on a Copperjah, helping break them down for other teammates

I've hopped on the Duraludon train ever since ysb showed me the power of the Eject Pack set. Worth mentioning that besides its STABs, which wreck a lot of common rocks setters (and even those it cant outright OHKO it can heavily chip with Draco Meteor and Eject Pack out), its coverage isn't just limited to Dark Pulse. Alternatively, you can run Body Press to chunk especially Copperajah, Thunderbolt if you want to chunk Vaporeon on the switch or just really hate Mantine, even Thunder Wave to pack more utility if you really want it. Legitimately a really good lead on any offense and even more aggressive balance. It may be paper thin on the special side but its typing is still good, so don't knock its pivoting ability, especially on resisted attacks, until you try it.

A- -> A
Goodra is easily the scariest thing to face down against at team preview, until you know its set, Goodra claims something every time it comes in. Packing Iron Tail and Sludge Bomb for Fairy types like Sylveon, Diancie, and Comfey, Power Whip or Thunder(bolt) for bulky Water types like Vaporeon or Mantine, and Fire Blast or Earthquake for Steel types like Bronzong and Copperajah, this thing has the potential to beat whatever check you may have on your team if it lands its moves. Goodra stats allow for a lot of customization, with great physical and special offenses, some of the best special bulk in the game, allowing it to pivot in on many top tier threats like Rotom-Mow or Blastoise; because of this Goodra is able to have great movepool and item diversity, being able to viably run all 3 choice items, Wide Lens, Expert Belt, Heavy-Duty-Boots, Assault Vest, or Leftovers. Goodra also separates itself from other breakers like Sirfetch'd or Golurk because of its great speed tier.

Right on the money, all the dragons are in a nice spot rn, and Goodra's grass immunity and special bulk and coverage is a great way to set it apart and a league above the rest.

A+ -> A
I'm gonna be honest, I don't find Dragalge's traits to be good enough or splashable enough to be placed amongst the ranks of the other A+ mons. Make no mistake, I recognize that this things Adaptability boosted STABs are terrifying to anything that's not a Steel and its natural bulk is excellent, with typing that gives it a lot of relevant resists for offensive builds. However, I feel that Dragalge suffers from much the same issues as Copperajah where its bulk is no longer good enough to justify its speed on many teams. Frankly, the last time I saw a Dragalge on my team or my opponents for that matter was the last time I went up against/played sand. No one disputes that Dragalge has good traits, but its weaknesses and low speed to me put it a step below the other A+ mons, and I think it's significant drop in usage at all levels reflects that.

B -> B-
I guess I'm going to have to be the one to trash the fan favorite... this mon just isn't all that useful right now. On paper, it still has the decent traits of checking Copperajah, Decidueye, Dhelmise, and Glastrier, but in practice its a soft check to all of these. It doesn't help that Talonflame is an excellent pivot and the undeniable best Fire-type in the tier. Additionally, some of the trends in usage, especially Diancie's popularity but also the million good breakers that destroy it, make it a high-risk low-reward option in the current meta.

- ground: -> B-/B

Personally I think it deserves a higher ranking than it is currently. It should be ranked higher than Ghostvally, or at least on the same level imo. Personally I find groundvally easier to fit on a team and easier to build around compared to Ghostvally.

SD sets are great and are able to be a good late-game cleaner, and doesn't have much trouble defeating its checks. Against a healthy Mudsdale or Vaporeon, it's able to just U-Turn on them and switch out into a teammate who can abuse them. Flame Charge is also a viable option and can make the sweeps even more dangerous.

Pivot sets are also decent, and can provide decent compression for some teams. Similar to flygon it can be a defogger and pivot. Its speed tier is good allowing it to threaten out things like Goodra, Toxicroak, Mowtom potentially etc.. and makes the opponent think twice about clicking volt switch. You also have a resistance to SR which while minor, can make that extra difference in some MU's

OK people, here's a stat for you. This mons usage is at .726% usage in the latest usage stats. That is criminal use this thing it's good.

 

[Elias PSY]

B- ->UR

Webs are bad no matter which mon use it (s/o boots) and araquanid isn't an exception.
So there is sub-toxic set which are better done by salazzle being able to mindlessly toxic every switch-in and make progress with knock off when araquanid just got walled by toxic immunitywho resists his stabs such as dragalge,toxicroak or vileplume.
Sure it has some defensive utility checking stoise(seeing a bit less usages tho),starmie or celebi but hindered by rock weakness and forced to run max atk to do reliable damages and leaving it with poor ininvested defenses (so pivots move just break sub and leaves it weak to toxic) .
Poor attack stack mean he can't take advantage of iron press zong rising in usages,can't even take d and easy to take advantage of it (mowtom isn't even ohko-ed by leech life,boombusrt/hvoice to break through sub...) a .
Offensively outclassed by Starmie (broken mon btw) who got higher offenses and speed,still checking water types and threaten non-scarfed grass types from switch-in and doesn't rely on toxic to get damages.

B+ -> B

Small drop showcasing the unreliablilty to deal with rising threats in goodra and exploud and fairy-types because of it's 4x fire weakness.Kingdra isn't that common to justify a entire slot only for spdef shell armor.Bronzong and copperajah are more reliable defenisve checks.Still good at forcing knock on talonflame tho and SD can be a nuisance for balances teams.

 

[Catalisador]

B- ->UR

I have to disagree. Although Webs are definitely a suboptimal set choice for Araquanid, SubToxic sets are still very potent and offer great offensive and defensive value as well. Araquanid is able to be a nuisance to teams by hard checking the likes of Vaporeon, Flying STAB-less Mantine, Bronzong, Blastoise and even Vileplume (by denying its Strength Sap). I have a few replays in which SubToxic Araquanid puts in extreme amounts of work or even singlehandedly 6 - 0es teams, I'll leave a few of them below.

Tournament replay of Araquanid vs. semi-Trick Room: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1398398308

Replay vs. GW showcasing its potential: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1394763774

 

[Finchinator]

Sirfetch’d to A- imo.

Yes, it is strong and controversial in a suspect context, but Sirfetch’d has not been seeing the same usage for a while now and it is also always near the top of the teambuilding checklist. Given how slow it is, offensive teams are able to ramp the pressure up. Given how fragile it still can be, defensive teams can minimize it and guide themselves to limit the damage taken in the meantime. Of course, Sirfetch’d is still a great Pokemon that is hard to counter fully, but this alone is not enough to prove its viability — Sirfetch’d provides nothing defensively and is less of an offensive premium than any point prior, making it challenging to use and worthy of a small drop, in my eyes.

 

[Corthius]

A- --> A
I think these two deserve to be higher ranked:

Everyone knows by now how scary a well played Goodra can be. It has insane coverage, literally picking between Fire Blast, Thunder(bolt), Sludge Bomb, Iron Tail, Earthquake (more useful now vs Heatproof Bronzong) or even niche/unique moves like Acid Spray or Acid Armor + Body Press and therefor what it wants to get checked by and what it wants to beat.
On top of that it has reliable special bulk, making it an excellent check to threats like Vileplume, Vaporeon, Rotom-Mow and Heliolisk without the need to invest into the special defense. The only drawback I have with Goodra is that, without a boosting item to its STAB Draco Meteor it doesn't hit as hard as you might want it to and its physical bulk leaves it easily revengekilled.
I think just for how threatening and at the same time how tough it can be to take down, especially with clearic support, this pokemon should be higher ranked.


Ok this might sound really stupid now, because I just nominated one of its checks and said how good it is but listen first.
Ever since we lost Mienshao which drove Vileplumes viability sky high, people seem to think it about Vileplume being bad because it now can't even check the fighting types because Sirfetch'd and Machamp can easily break trough it and thus leaving it in the shadow. Recently I think people, tagging Test Techles because I know that we both love to build with Vileplume, have been looking more into it. While not being the fighting check it once was, it still checks about most physical attacker with Strength Sap like Drapion, Tauros and is a reliable answer to Toxic Vaporeon/Quagsire. In my opinion, what makes it really shine in the current meta, is its ability to be one of the best Diancie answers available. It doesn't care about Body Press and more so punishes these contact moves with Effect Spore and Clear Body from Diancie makes it that you never drop its attack stat meaning you will always recover the same amount which the standard Diancie can't outdamage.
It also has a lot of viable options as its last move (first 3 are pretty much determined to dual stab + sap) e.g. Growth to act as a bulky wincon which can be really threatening especially in combination with Strength Sap; Corrosive Gas, which removes valuable items from switchins like Leftovers from Bronzong or Assault Vest from Copperajah, you need to watch out for Xatu tho because you would just be removing your own item; Aromatherapy, especially useful on teams that can't fit a clearic anywhere else but really like to have one; Leech Seed is really useful, especially in the long run; Moonblast is really niche but if you find yourself struggling a lot vs Scrafty this can be used to counter it; Sleep/Stun Powder are really good on more offensive/momentum based teams which struggle to switch into Dragalge so they can create free turns to switch something in that threatens it out.
Sap Sipper Goodra is obviously one of its biggest counters because most of the annoying moves Vileplume runs are Grass type, but Goodra really dislikes switching into potential hazards and getting poisoned by Sludge Bomb, so it is possible to break through it.

 

[Rabia]

some noms for y'all:

rises
-> S
Week 1 of SCL showed an incredibly high usage rate for Talonflame, and in general it's a Pokemon that's been fantastic for awhile now. In many regards, it's filled a certain void left by Flygon in that it gives teams a good Ground-immune pivot that solidly supports special wallbreakers like Exploud, Celebi, and Goodra. It more than feels just as great as Bronzong and Rotom-C because of how much it brings to the table utility-wise and in my eyes is a top-3 option at the moment.

-> A+
I think Xatu is insane currently because of its positive matchup against every entry hazard setter bar Moonblast Diancie and some more niche options like Rhydon and Palossand. Fucking on Bronzong is obviously huge right now, and like Talonflame it provides teams with a soft check to foes like Sirfetch'd and Copperajah. The biggest issue with Xatu is that its natural bulk is pretty poor, so it fails to be a great switch-in to attacks it doesn't resist, but I think it's otherwise elite.

-> A tentative
I understand the hype behind Goodra and agree that it feasts in a lot of matchups. My main gripe with it, though, lies in how common Heatproof Bronzong is and how that severely limits it in some matchups. I appreciate what it does for teams defensively in checking foes like Rotom-C, Celebi, and Starmie, but I find myself defaulting to Guzzlord more frequently if I want a blend of offense and defense unless I really need the Speed on a team. This is a nomination I'd like to see more discussion on.

-> B+
Passimian is like Talonflame in that it draws in physical walls super well to position special wallbreakers in favorable situations. Rock Slide is a pretty nice benefit to it over Sirfetch'd because you can bonk Talonflame immediately, and I appreciate Passimian's raw power compared to some other common revenge killers like Talonflame, Choice Scarf Heliolisk, and Ninjask.

(ground) -> B
Silvally-Ground is really effective right now. Most Ground-type checks aren't great into it because of Rock Slide + Flame Charge, with the latter even preventing Choice Scarf Rotom-C from reliably revenge killing it. Its combination of early-game wallbreaking and late-game cleaning is somewhat unique, and while competition with Rock Polish Golurk is notable, I think Swords Dance gives it a good amount of reason to be used over Golurk.

-> B-
SubSeed + Calm Mind Comfey is something I've been somewhat high on for awhile, and although it came up short in Sabella's match against Sensei Axew, we still saw some of its potential in stalling out bulky Pokemon that can't get rid of it quickly. It's a far cry from where it was in Generation 7, but Comfey still has some nutty highs that I think should be represented with a rise.

drops
-> A
This is less a knock on Sylveon itself and more a nod to how the rest of A+ just feels a fair bit better than it nowadays, but Bronzong and Salazzle prevalence definitely has hurt it long-term I feel. Still a really solid Pokemon, but I think it fits better with the other A-rank Pokemon.

-> B
Talked with Ren-chon a bit about this one, but Ninjask is a weird Pokemon that comes and goes in viability. Right now, I think it's at a low because of Diancie usage being really high and offense being less effective than it was back when we originally rose Ninjask to B+. I'd understand if we kept Ninjask B+ because that late-game potential is still insane, but I find it fits less well into this metagame than it did the previous ones.

-> C+
It got a lot of hype when it initially dropped but didn't live up to it. Too easily exploited by Celebi, Rotom-C, and Xatu and hard to justify over Vaporeon and Mudsdale.

-> C+
Similarly, Rhydon got some hype awhile back after Sabella used it to repeated success, but it never managed to get a secure footing in the tier.

 

[Pokeslice]

-> S
Week 1 of SCL showed an incredibly high usage rate for Talonflame, and in general it's a Pokemon that's been fantastic for awhile now. In many regards, it's filled a certain void left by Flygon in that it gives teams a good Ground-immune pivot that solidly supports special wallbreakers like Exploud, Celebi, and Goodra. It more than feels just as great as Bronzong and Rotom-C because of how much it brings to the table utility-wise and in my eyes is a top-3 option at the moment.

100% agree with this nom. Talon has shown itself to be a splashable and fast utility machine capable of walling, revenging, or pressuring a good portion of the metagame, hence the high SCL usage. I could definitely see it fitting into S with Mowtom.

S --> A+
I actually want to flip these two in the VR's because I think Zong has started to fall off. The rise in Xatu, Drapion, Guzz, alone have made it that Zong has felt like a liability more often than not, and with other anti-Zong options such as Ghost-types or Goodra popping up, I just haven't liked this mon in the same way I did before. It's great typings, abilities, and utility fill a ton of holes on teams, making it in no way a bad Pokemon or a bad choice to run, but I feel it's dropped off a bit.

Stay A-
I do get why people want to nom Goodra higher, but I think it should stay in A- as it's just a worse breaker than majority of the ones we have in the meta, primarily Fetch'd, Exploud, and Golurk. It's also just outclassed as a Dragon imo by Guzz, making it harder to justify at times. Goodra has a lot of the tools to break through balance cores, making it a powerful threat in the right scenarios, but fails to pick up OHKO's a lot, meaning defensive mons or cores like Vaporeon+Steel or Sylveon can sometimes just sit on it in the right situations. I think Goodra's biggest strength comes from its insane bulk rather than its insane coverage, meaning that even when it can't OHKO, it can rarely be OHKOed right back. It's definitely an A- mon but no higher when looking at the rest of the VR.

A- --> A

i moreso wanted to talk about vaporeon. sure, it doesnt wall 6/6 mons (usually), but it is an extremely good pokemon that I believe should never have fallen out of A. it might not be able to beat down every mon with scald + wishtect anymore, but it remains extremely useful due to its ability to heal up the checks/counters to the pokemon that force vaporeon out. for instance -- the opponent's gonna send np celebi in versus vaporeon? ok, let me toss up a wish and get my copperajah / drapion healthy enough to force it out, keeping momentum on my side. same with toxicroak -- you can heal up mudsdale, which makes you fine against anything but ada lowkick, and having a xatu/tflame/etc. alongside muds puts them in the position where they need to get 50-50s right to avoid losing momentum as your whole team remains healthy. the omnipresent mowtom coming in on vapo? no worries -- your vileplume/celebi/decidueye/guzzlord/et. al. will be fully healthy and you'll have all the momentum unless they volt, which vapo actually heals off since it is extremely fat and volt does negligible damage.

i think this update drastically underestimates vaporeon's impact on the meta. beating it requires a conscious effort both in the builder and in-game -- i always consider what 'Vaporeon beater' to add to a team and how to keep it from getting too many free turns, and no pokemon that requires that degree of conscious effort to prepare for belongs in A- rank.

Expulso puts it perfectly^. There's no reason that this mon should have dropped in the first place. It's extremely potent, meta warping in its own way, and has other options like Toxic that heavily punish switch ins, especially over the course of a game.

A+ --> A-
Can we stop overrating Dragalge? It should never have been this high in the first place as its outclassed by both Guzz and Goodra, barely sees much usage anymore, and Bronzong is currently S. T Spikes also aren't great in a meta full of Levitating/Flying mons, an almost mandatory Steel, boots, and multiple very good Poison-types. I guess Flip Turn is cool, but not A+ cool I'll tell you that.

 

[Catalisador]

-> S
Week 1 of SCL showed an incredibly high usage rate for Talonflame, and in general it's a Pokemon that's been fantastic for awhile now. In many regards, it's filled a certain void left by Flygon in that it gives teams a good Ground-immune pivot that solidly supports special wallbreakers like Exploud, Celebi, and Goodra. It more than feels just as great as Bronzong and Rotom-C because of how much it brings to the table utility-wise and in my eyes is a top-3 option at the moment.

100% agreed! Talonflame's sheer utility and usage in competitive play reflect its status as an extremely versatile glue in the current metagame.

S --> A+
I actually want to flip these two in the VR's because I think Zong has started to fall off. The rise in Xatu, Drapion, Guzz, alone have made it that Zong has felt like a liability more often than not, and with other anti-Zong options such as Ghost-types or Goodra popping up, I just haven't liked this mon in the same way I did before. It's great typings, abilities, and utility fill a ton of holes on teams, making it in no way a bad Pokemon or a bad choice to run, but I feel it's dropped off a bit.

Gotta disagree with this one! I think Bronzong is still absolutely a dominant force in the metagame. Not only is it absolutely THE best Steel-type Pokémon in NU, one of - if not THE - best defensive Pokémon in the metagame, it is also an excellent win-condition by itself with its extremely reliable DefensePress variants (which have such extreme versatility in and of itself that they can range from Rest + Toxic to SR + Psychic to even Trick + Toxic Orb AND can choose between Levitate and Heatproof). In my opinion, Bronzong is absolutely the face of SS NU.