Metagame 1v1 Old Gens

[DEG]

On ORAS:
Updated ORAS Comp before classic: https://pokepast.es/971489d28ce0bac8
VR won't change, basically the same.

changelogs

+Replaced Haban Kyurem-Black by better sets
+Edited Petaya Greninja set: made haze mandatory, slashed Surf for sub Zard
+Fixed Gardevoir sets
+Fixed Metagross sets
+Removed Growth Venusaur and Anti-Victini
+Combined Ampharos sets
+Added Skill Swap on Diancie
+Removed AV Victini
+Fixed Lopunny sets
+Fixed Specs Lando-I, Removed Scarf
+Tweaked Specs Hoopa-U
+Added Band Aggron
+Added Switcheroo+Rest Band Archeops
+Added Worry Seed on Seed Serp
+Added Occa as a Slash on Seed Serp
+Removed Politoed and Keldeo
+Added Offensive Deoxys-Speed
+Added Talonflame
+Added Landorus-Therian
+Added Taunt Sab

On BW:
Watched WC replays + No Johns and the meta is pretty interesting right now but I do think there's two mons that we need to talk about Togekiss and Jirachi. I already made a post on Jirachi and nothing much has changed. I do think though, that Togekiss is more problematic than Jirachi. Togekiss has a great typing + great bulk and a combination of Twave+Roost+Encore which allows it to win most matchups where it can live a hit. By living a hit Togekiss just clicks Twave and Roost+Air slash spam allowing to sponge hit easily and dish back damage with air slash + a chance of paraflinch. Encore is used to stop any kind of set up or Trick+Scarf. Togekiss can run many items like Sitrus, Charti Berry, Mental herb, and even Choice Scarf which makes it cover a huge portion of the metagame. Teams are basically forced to run strong electrics like Zapdos or Thundurus or Rocks like Tyranitar and Rhyperior to be able to beat Togekiss. I could add more but I'm too lazy and you get the thingy + BW players watched it in action + built around it so ye.

I'll also have to edit my votes for VR to atleast update it a bit before classic.

 

[SuperMemeBroz]

GSC 1v1 is suspect testing Zapdos!

info

Now that this meta has developed a fair amount, it is becoming clear that certain Pokemon are particularly centralizing. While any healthy meta is held together by some degree of centralization, GSC 1v1 is currently dominated by Electric types - to the point it is nearly impossible to build a viable team without including one. To many in the GSC community, Zapdos appears to be at the heart of this issue.



Arguments

Zapdos has several key traits which make it troublesome in the GSC metagame. Firstly, its secondary Flying typing enables it to beat virtually all Ground types (with the fringe exception of Rest Marowak), pushing Grounds down and paving the way for Electric types in general to dominate the meta. The fact that Zapdos’s main counters are other Electric types elevates Electrics even further. Secondly, Zapdos has a vast movepool for this format and is able to tech for nearly anything. The list of known counters is brief (https://pokepast.es/2a1176208269879e). Nearly anything not on that list either loses to some Zapdos set or is un-viable outside of beating Zapdos. Additionally, it can be difficult to set read Zapdos at preview due to the overlap between which mons its sets beat. Thirdly, Zapdos has an absurd stat distribution for GSC. Because all EVs are maxed at once, Zapdos is simultaneously very bulky, extremely powerful on the special side, and quite fast. Thanks to its 90 base attack, it is also able to run mixed attacking sets which make use of its Flying STAB to break through Grass types.



However, Zapdos is not perfect and does not lack reasonable counterplay. It loses to faster electric types, some Ice types (although it can run Light Screen to lure them), and Blissey. Zapdos’s speed tier, while good, is not the best - a number of mons can outpace it and beat it. Although it is highly versatile, Zapdos cannot run all its sets at once, and therefore must deal with opportunity cost; for example, it can reliably beat Venusaur (by running Curse) at the cost of losing to Marowak (which it can beat with Toxic). Finally, although its movepool is immense by GSC standards, it is not endless. Its coverage is limited to STAB + Hidden Power, so any given set can be walled by something.

Qualifications for Voting

In this suspect test, which is to be held 8/23/21, anyone who is a member of the VR Council and/or places top 3 in one of GSC’s first two live tournaments will be eligible to vote. Zapdos will be banned if a ⅔ supermajority votes in favor of its removal. Our second live tournament will be held on 8/21/21 in the the GSC 1v1 Server.
https://discord.gg/FQ9AuGRM

 

[LRXC]

ATTENTION ADV 1v1 FANS THE VIABILITY RANKINGS HAVE BEEN UPDATED POST ADV 1v1 DUO SWISS WOOOOOOOOOOOO

WILL WRITE A POST EXPLAINING SOME OF THE BIG CHANGES SOON
ADV SETS COMPENDIUM WILL BE UPDATED SOON
NEW SAMPLES WILL BE OUT SOON
MORE ADV CONTENT WILL BE OUT SOON


THE NEW VR
S Rank
Zapdos

S- Rank
Registeel
Sceptile

A+ Rank
Raikou
Marowak
Tyranitar
Salamence


A Rank
Alakazam
Metagross
Regice
Heracross

A- Rank
Blissey
Charizard
Ursaring
Swampert
Starmie
Tauros
Vaporeon

B+ Rank
Gyarados
Blastoise
Houndoom
Celebi
Regirock
Machamp
Kingdra
Dusclops
Entei


B Rank
Ludicolo
Venusaur
Gengar
Aerodactyl
Walrein
Jirachi


B- Rank
Armaldo
Moltres
Hariyama
Miltank
Medicham
Jumpluff
Blaziken

C+ Rank
Kecleon
Lunatone
Scizor
Arcanine
Milotic
Dragonite
Dodrio

C rank
Flygon
Slowbro
Typhlosion
Grumpig
Jolteon
Shedinja
Porygon2
Meganium
Skarmory

C- Rank
Illumise
Kangaskhan
Hypno
Scyther
Poliwrath
Jynx
Togetic
Rhydon
Crobat

VR CHANGES
RISES:
Sceptile: A to S-
Tauros: B to A-
Kingdra UR to B+
Venusaur B- to B
Grumpig C- to C
Slowbro UR to C
Meganium UR to C
Illumise UR to C-
Kangaskhan UR to C-
Scyther UR to C-
Togetic UR to C-
Rhydon UR to C-
Crobat UR to C-

DROPS:
Registeel S to S-
Marowak S to A+
Metagross A+ to A
Blissey A to A-
Charizard A to A-
Ursaring A to A-
Dusclops A to B+
Blastoise A- to B+
Houndoom A- to B+
Aerodactyl A- to B
Gengar B+ to B
Walrein B+ to B
Ludicolo B+ to B
Blaziken B+ to B-
Medicham B to B-
Jumpluff B to B-
Hariyama B to B-
Kecleon B to C+
Lunatone B- to C+
Scizor B- to C+
Typhlosion B- to C
Jolteon B- to C
Flygon C+ to C
Shedinja C+ to C
Porygon2 C+ to C
Poliwrath C to C-
Hypno C to C-
Sharpedo C to UR
Victreebel C- to UR
Swellow C- to UR
Ninjask C- to UR
Breloom C- to UR
Raichu C- to UR
Linoone C- to UR
Clefable UR to BANNED HAHA

 

[SuperMemeBroz]

CROBAT, SLOWBRO, TOGETIC AND SCYTHER RANKED LET’S FUCKING GOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

 

[doc1203]

my man houndoom got robbed

 

[crucify]

BW stuff post wc/no john's

1. VR shifts

Rises

A- -> S
A+ -> S-
A -> A+
A -> A+
B+ -> A-
B+ -> A-
B+ -> A-
B+ -> A-
B -> B+
B -> B+
B -> B+
B- -> B
B- -> B
C+ -> B-
C+ -> B-
C -> C+
C -> C+
C -> C+
D -> C-
UR -> B+
UR -> B
UR -> B-
UR -> B-
UR -> B-
UR -> C+
UR -> C+
UR -> C
UR -> C
UR -> C
UR -> C-
UR -> D

Drops

A+ -> A
A+ -> A
A+ -> A
A- -> B
B+ -> B
B+ -> B
B -> B-
B -> B-
B -> B-
B -> B-
B- -> C+
C+ -> C
C+ -> C
C- -> D
D -> UR
C -> UR

theres a ton of changes holy moly lemme know if i made a mistake in the post

2. added sets for a bunch of formerly UR and low tier mons to the compendium (arcanine, mienshao, escavalier, aron, murkrow, quag, moltres, hitmonlee, dusclops, cofagrigus) as well as sorted most of it with the new shifts https://pokepast.es/56fed8deac4a2293

3. bw council is looking to take action on both togekiss and jirachi (suspect/qb them), pretty much for the reasons DEG said. My personal opinion is togekiss is much more broken than jirachi. while jirachi has more versatility than togekiss, the twave encore toge set is just better than all of jirachis individual sets combined lol. and i think at this point not using togekiss puts you at a significant disadvantage in the teambuilder and on preview rn and its quite difficult for me to justify not using it. yes counterplay exists but is limited to basically some stall mons, snorlax, electric types, and rock types which can lose to charti, which has been used and is not an unset due to the item slot on twave encore being quite flexible. for jirachi i personally think its not that good but the majority of council/the community want it suspected/banned as well so im not gonna block it. togekiss is still the priority over jirachi.

action on these two mons will be done before BW cup r1, so if anyone has any objections or opinions on how we should go about this post here, pm me on discord or say it in the 1v1 discord. i'll tag some people who's thoughts aren't publicly known if they want to chime in STABLE Gym Socks! AOPSUser

 

[STABLE]

As the premier togekiss spammer during this past wc, I can easily attest that Togekiss is fucking broken. This big bitch bird is the fattest motherfucker on the planet and can raw tank basically any hit from any mon besides like Crustle Rock Gem Rock Wrecker (spoiler weakness berries exist). So, basically, let me show some example calcs

proof of concept

252+ SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Togekiss: 285-336 (76.2 - 89.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 60 SpD Togekiss: 316-373 (84.4 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Fire Gem Volcarona Overheat vs. 252 HP / 92 SpD Togekiss: 316-373 (84.4 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Garchomp Outrage vs. 252 HP / 60 Def Togekiss: 316-373 (84.4 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Adaptability Porygon-Z Hyper Beam vs. 252 HP / 40 SpD Togekiss: 316-372 (84.4 - 99.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Meloetta Hyper Beam vs. 252 HP / 124 SpD Togekiss: 316-373 (84.4 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

These are some of the premier hitters of the metagame, and Togekiss tanks their strongest boosted attacks with somewhat residual investment, allowing it to invest with both tons of EVs and nature in SpA, reducing the amount of paraflinches needed to win.

But that's not all! Have you ever thought of using a non-boosting item rock or electric type to beat togekiss? foolish child

bop

252 Atk Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 72 Def Togekiss: 314-372 (83.9 - 99.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 200 Def Togekiss: 314-372 (83.9 - 99.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Zapdos Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Togekiss: 294-348 (78.6 - 93%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Rotom-Wash Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Togekiss: 260-308 (69.5 - 82.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
and more examples cba

scarf? custap? fuck that, enjoy being fished for paralysis while roost removes togekiss's flying type and thus your ability to do any meaningful damage.
Not to mention how fucking rare rock and electric types are in the first place; Crustle doesnt even win! charti? not even! just get the 60% flinch chance and you're fine.
I've also used mental herb and mail on togekiss to fuck any taunt or trick user as if thats enough to stop the massacre thats about to come
Not to talk about how many times my Specs Togekiss farmed the shit out of people: "ah yes, today I will use jirachi to counter togekiss as its steel typing resists flying and with my ability to flinch it myself I w-" FIRE BLAST BITCHHH

anyway there's even more I could go over but I realized halfway that this section is pointless since no one sane will oppose kiss ban its just funny banter at this point


JIRACHI!
rachi sucks dude, it's like not even A tier, ong.
we'll go set by set, since having 1000 sets isnt reason to make a mon broken, the sets should also not be an 0 -3 at preview sometimes yk

SCARF: one of the worst sets honestly, you have severe 4mss between trick+rest and elemental punches, iron head does 0 damage and zen is unreliable asf rng, you're a steel type that dies to counter from crustle and a psychic type with a 64% chance to lose to sawk (you sometimes also need 2 flinches for ttar btw lol), a scarfer that loses to pressure stall. Your wincon against mons that you win against (not the ones you lose against, those are a lost cause) is to literally get lucky.

BALLOON: this is like one of the more prevalent sets and it also kinda sucks? 1. You lose to Keldeo (think this is enough but w/e I'll go on) 2. you are dedicating an entire item slot to beat fucking rhyperior on a mon that does 0 damage (who even uses custap rhyp anyway), and you dont even beat fucking custap donphan. You also straight up lose to Latios as a steel type, what the fuck is wrong with people who run this set.

SPECS: similar to shuca but now you do actual damage; here's the catch though: you cant flinch anything anymore, so your viability gimmick is gone, you are now a mon with the same offensive capabilities as Gastly and slightly higher defensive capabilities than Bouffalant . Grats, dude. The set also has severe 4mss and not the good kind either (the strongest move this fucker runs is fucking Psychic, over having a pitiful attacking stat), but a kind of 4mss where you go "do I pretend to beat Suicune today or do I try my hardest to defeat any zapdos without a choice specs or fire coverage?"

TWAVE: this is the only half decent set but its just a togekiss knock off and you dont even have any reliable recovery nor encore, 4th move is fucking substitute lmfao, it's like scarf but now you also actually have to live a hit other than get lucky.

there may be more idiotic set that beat like one entire whole mon and lose to the rest of the entire vr that some idiot in the post below might wanna point out like... stall ig? which is also bad for a trillion of different reasons im just tired of typing

I was looking through the mons on the VR to give examples on things that Jirachi is stretching as hard as [put a clever and funny comparison here later] to beat but then I realized all of the fucking metagame counters this shit, it's actually ridiculous.

TO CONCLUDE, JIRACHI IS GARBAGE, ALL THE PEOPLE WHO WANT IT GONE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE TOO ANNOYED TO BEAT IT IN THE BUILDER TO REALIZE EVERY TIME THEY BRING IT, IT'S AN 0-3
^^^THESE ARE THE SAME KINDS OF PEOPLE THAT LOSE TO SABLEYE, WHICH IS A WAY MORE BROKEN MON THAN JIRACHI

some extra thoughts on vr stuff

I spammed this mon a bunch and it 3-0s a fuckton of people and teams especially with the cool magnet electroweb set (add it to compendium tbh https://pokepast.es/9f8a0cf800994ac0), so much so that sansho had to use wacan keldeo, this is definitely at least A-
not entirely as good as people think since wisp stall is super unreliable but definitely annoying to deal with in the builder. Scarf and other sets have a lot of the same problems jirachi runs into. It's definitely better than rachi but not anything that would ever be broken
LETS FUCKING GO MY BABIES ARE RANKED I LOVE YOU crucify
not as used but still broken, I understand why it fell off tho. I am not joking when I say that togekiss being banned makes this mon better LOL, running a rock type on a team and still having to find another kiss counter was really restricting for it and lum berry as an item on it isnt very good
I would not be opposed to banning this I hate it
maybe this even higher? its highly busted, no contrary is a pain but taunt more than makes up for it with a lot of mus

everything else is quite fine gj vr

also add these sets to setcomp maybe https://pokepast.es/4dc7a151d1e195e4 and also the setcomp ambipom should have sub as 4th since it makes it cool for like custap sawk and other custap users etc and gunk shot is kinda useless.

peace

 

[PA]

I. Introduction

Hey, I’ve recently taken over DPP 1v1 and we’ve recently gone through some changes as a result. We’ve added new council members to the team, feel free to congratulate them when you get the chance. As a result, DPP 1v1 has gone through a complete revamp from the Sample Teams to the Viability Rankings in preparation for the DPP Cup.

II. Togekiss Quickban



Togekiss has been quickbanned! If you’ve played DPP recently then this should come as no surprise at all. The lack of power creep has allowed Togekiss' overall base stats, specifically its above-average bulk, to outlast Pokemon that can break through its flinches. The Thunder Wave + Encore set has proved to be extremely potent, with the potential of paralysis alongside flinching, making it even more reliable in shutting down opponents. Choice Scarf and Choice Specs set are just are potent, allowing to bypass previous checks like Tyranitar, Metagross, and more. Tagging Kris to implement.

Euphonos

Tyranitar and Zapdos are some of the Pokemon that holds it back from being the top-tier threat; thanks to Thunder Wave + Encore + Air Slash being one of the most potent strategies, the council is more than convinced to warrant a Togekiss quick ban.

Urfgurgle

Can tech beat virtually any mon (including Ttar and Electrics, though luring the latter comes with great opportunity cost) and can win matchups it shouldn't with Serene Grace Air Slash.

Jabiru and rest of Council

This mon is wild. T-wave and Encore are broken and it abuses them both better than any other mon in the tier. Its natural bulk allows it to tank most of the tier with relative ease. It manages to do all this without the requirement of any particular item, meaning that the item slot is completely free to tech one of its few checks.

III. Changes to VR
The VR has been updated, here are the updated rankings.

S- Rank
Shaymin
Tyranitar

A+ Rank
Cresselia
Dragonite
Infernape
Jirachi
Raikou
Zapdos

A Rank
Kingdra
Registeel

A- Rank
Aerodactyl
Celebi
Heatran
Machamp
Metagross
Rhyperior
Slaking
Suicune

B+ Rank
Hariyama
Heracross
Rotom-A
Sceptile
Scizor
Swampert
Tangrowth
Weavile

B Rank
Ambipom
Arcanine
Azelf
Bronzong
Clefable
Empoleon
Entei
Gallade
Gyarados
Hippowdon
Staraptor
Venusaur

B- Rank
Alakazam
Blissey
Gastrodon
Gengar
Moltres
Umbreon

C+ Rank
Armaldo
Dusknoir
Electivire
Flygon
Mamoswine
Regirock
Roserade
Slowbro
Torterra

C Rank
Abomasnow
Azumarill
Camerupt
Cradily
Magmortar
Magnezone
Porygon2
Regice
Ursaring
Yanmega

C- Rank
Articuno
Gliscor
Houndoom
Jolteon
Lanturn
Spiritomb
Starmie
Walrein

D Rank
Blaziken
Lucario

IV. Set Compendium & Sample Teams
Finally, we've (finally) finished the set compendium, hopefully, this will give newer players a bit of a compass on what to expect in terms of sets. Hope you enjoy DPP Cup bye bye!

new samples:
Tangrowth Bulky Offense - PA
Heatran Offense - PA
Machamp Offense - 187 Fan
Weavile Offense - Stable

 

[Elo Bandit]

GSC 1v1 is suspect testing Zapdos!

info

Now that this meta has developed a fair amount, it is becoming clear that certain Pokemon are particularly centralizing. While any healthy meta is held together by some degree of centralization, GSC 1v1 is currently dominated by Electric types - to the point it is nearly impossible to build a viable team without including one. To many in the GSC community, Zapdos appears to be at the heart of this issue.



Arguments

Zapdos has several key traits which make it troublesome in the GSC metagame. Firstly, its secondary Flying typing enables it to beat virtually all Ground types (with the fringe exception of Rest Marowak), pushing Grounds down and paving the way for Electric types in general to dominate the meta. The fact that Zapdos’s main counters are other Electric types elevates Electrics even further. Secondly, Zapdos has a vast movepool for this format and is able to tech for nearly anything. The list of known counters is brief (https://pokepast.es/2a1176208269879e). Nearly anything not on that list either loses to some Zapdos set or is un-viable outside of beating Zapdos. Additionally, it can be difficult to set read Zapdos at preview due to the overlap between which mons its sets beat. Thirdly, Zapdos has an absurd stat distribution for GSC. Because all EVs are maxed at once, Zapdos is simultaneously very bulky, extremely powerful on the special side, and quite fast. Thanks to its 90 base attack, it is also able to run mixed attacking sets which make use of its Flying STAB to break through Grass types.



However, Zapdos is not perfect and does not lack reasonable counterplay. It loses to faster electric types, some Ice types (although it can run Light Screen to lure them), and Blissey. Zapdos’s speed tier, while good, is not the best - a number of mons can outpace it and beat it. Although it is highly versatile, Zapdos cannot run all its sets at once, and therefore must deal with opportunity cost; for example, it can reliably beat Venusaur (by running Curse) at the cost of losing to Marowak (which it can beat with Toxic). Finally, although its movepool is immense by GSC standards, it is not endless. Its coverage is limited to STAB + Hidden Power, so any given set can be walled by something.

Qualifications for Voting

In this suspect test, which is to be held 8/23/21, anyone who is a member of the VR Council and/or places top 3 in one of GSC’s first two live tournaments will be eligible to vote. Zapdos will be banned if a ⅔ supermajority votes in favor of its removal. Our second live tournament will be held on 8/21/21 in the the GSC 1v1 Server.
https://discord.gg/FQ9AuGRM

Suspect voting has concluded. With nine ban votes and one keep vote out of a pool of eleven, Zapdos has exceeded the supermajority threshold and will be banned from GSC 1v1.

Votes

Votes
Keep (1): Trashuny
Ban (9): SuperMemeBroz, Elo Bandit, Urfgurgle, Superstrike66, Murman, pqs, doc1203, Torterra, 413X
Abstain (1): adam3560

Reasoning

Keep

I'm going to vote no ban on zapdos. Is it great? absolutely. but it's not something I really struggle to deal with at the teambuilder. I think curse is a huge issue, it really makes some sets really inconsistent vs Zapdos. and I think you can really mix and match, using something like Sub & Curse for venusaur (even though I was thinking that was kind of stupid). it just does not feel overwhelming or hard to teambuild against. the electrics are amazing, but something I do not feel is something we need to ban right now. Gen 2 is not in tournaments, and we don't need to rush to change the meta, when in my opinion, there is a lot more innovation to be done with Zapdos. so I'm going to vote no ban. -Trashuny

Ban

Zapdos keeps down every Pokemon that isn't a direct counter, namely fat Normals, Ice attackers, faster Electrics, and specific Rock types (Miracle Berry Tyranitar). Zapdos shoehorns builders into using Electrics and specific suboptimal counter sets like Rest Marowak and Toxic Tauros, or risk getting 3-0'd by one of Zapdos' possible move combinations. Zapdos isn't quite as good of an Electric type as Raikou due to its speed, but it can get around nearly any Pokemon that's trying to beat Electric types with its Flying typing and tools like Toxic, Substitute, Protect, Thunder Wave, Screens, Rest, Drill Peck, and the strongest Electric STABs in the metagame. "Blanket" Electric checks typically lose to multiple sets of the most common Electric type, and that's a huge factor in the overcentralization of the GSC metagame. -Elo Bandit

[Zapdos] has insane versatility that allows it to tech for almost every mon in the tier. As a result, many teams struggle with some Zappy set -Superstrike66

[Zapdos is] overwhelming and able to handle way too much of the tier at once, and has so many sets. -Murman

[Zapdos is] very versatile and beats too much of the meta to be healthy. -pqs

The problem with Zapdos is its ability to tech past most of the metagame and the pressure it puts on players to build with opposing electric types. Flying STAB allows Zapdos to beat many of the grass types that Raikou just can't beat consistently... Its flying typing allows it to cheese past ground types with Sub Toxic and Hidden Power as well, it just beats too much of the meta imo. -Torterra

 

[crucify]

Togekiss has been quickbanned from BW 1v1! reasoning given by myself DEG and STABLE in this thread, we'll be keeping eyes on rachi/mew/sableye during classic to see if the bw tradition of banning a mon after every tour continues

tagging Kris to implement

also quick few vr shifts
A- -> A+
B+ -> A-
B+ -> A-

 

[DEG]

DezShizzels has been added to the ORAS Council.

ORAS post-wc VR shifts.

Rises

Rises:
A to A+
A- to A
A- to A
B+ to A-
B to B+
B to B+
B- to B
UR to C+
UR to B
UR to D
UR to C-
UR to C-
UR to C
UR to C-
UR to D
UR to C-
UR to D
UR to D
UR to C-
UR to D
UR to D
UR to C

Drops

Drops:
S to S-
S- to A+
A+ to A
B+ to B
B to B-
B- to C+
B- to C+
C+ to C
C- to D

 

[LRXC]

ATTENTION ADV 1v1 FANS

WE HAVE THE SETS COMPENDIUM UPDATE

https://pokepast.es/9367101fe0797188

ur welcome :)

also! Sign up for the Roa Spotlight tournament! https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/roa-spotlight-tournament-adv-1v1-signups.3690278/
Sign up for ADV CUP https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/adv-1v1-cup-v-signups.3690033/
AND ADV 1v1 HAS A LADDER WOOOOOo

new samples out soon and other tier changes!

Enjoy :)

 

[SuperMemeBroz]

DID YA MISS ME



https://pokepast.es/3049a6c8b373fadd


I have returned with the adv team (not submitting as a sample)

Changes

Only thing that has changed is Zapdos. I optimized the evs so it can have a better mence gross and cross mu, with new mons you beat, scyther, toge, our lord, Crobat, kingdra

Sceptile you can beat vapo and pert that carry rest

Arm you beat aero zam fires, can outplay sub mons with rock blast (if you hit it)

REAL ADV SAMPLE COMING SOON

 

[deddd]

adv tech time wooo

pog moltres(also calcs lol)

lol noob (Moltres) @ Petaya Berry
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 132 HP / 144 SpA / 232 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute/Endure
- Fire Blast
- Agility
- Sunny Day/Overheat
hp invest for band ursa return, spdef for petaya zap tbolt, rest in spatk
+1 144+ SpA Moltres Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Zapdos: 314-370 (97.8 - 115.2%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
+1 144+ SpA Moltres Overheat vs. 192 HP / 0 SpD Zapdos: 369-435 (100 - 117.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 144+ SpA Moltres Overheat vs. 120 HP / 92 SpD Ursaring: 380-448 (108.2 - 127.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Alakazam Thunder Punch vs. 132 HP / 232 SpD Moltres: 302-356 (85.3 - 100.5%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO(this is petaya zam btw)
144+ SpA Moltres Fire Blast vs. +1 0 HP / 0 SpD Alakazam: 148-175 (58.9 - 69.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
144+ SpA Moltres Fire Blast vs. +2 252 HP / 252+ SpD Registeel in Sun: 158-186 (43.4 - 51%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
144+ SpA Moltres Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 104 SpD Sceptile: 394-464 (114.5 - 134.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

This moltres set originally came up as a zap bait. The point is to agility t1, endure/sub t2 if u didn't get into petaya berry, and fire blast with the petaya boost to ohko zap(sometimes lol its rolls unless u run overheat > sunny day). Sub and endure basically serve the same purpose, but each has their own advantages. Sub allows you to be more consitent vs something like maro, while endure lets u win v armaldo. Lastly, Sunny Day is a fun tech to beat registeel with, as u fire blast t1, sunny day t2 on the expected rest, then u can 3hko registeel before it wakes up. Overheat is another option for more consistency against zap/ursa. Also, since you do more than half to zam after cm, they can't cm stall u and are forced to atk, which won't ko in one hit. Agility helps v non hp rock sceptile, as u can agility and spam fire blast vs spdef leech in case u somehow dont ohko it.

replays

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen31v1-1408268334-s138ooo46mtr69sgf3z3ne61uf04entpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen31v1-1393317609
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen31v1-1408378090
i could not get a single person to click zap on moltres wtf

fire bird is good

 

[XSTATIC COLD]

yeah i was watching your replays before playing you in adv classic and i saw that it was good.
That s why i brought hp rock zard to counter it x)

 

[deddd]

yeah i was watching your replays before playing you in adv classic and i saw that it was good.
That s why i brought hp rock zard to counter it x)

Is this why you clicked blast burn on a swampert

 

[XSTATIC COLD]

yes xD otherwise i would use hp grass with subs petaya lool

 

[Trashuny]

So I have not fully made up my mind yet on what I would vote if a suspect did arise, but I think we should talk about Gen 4 Machamp and how it is just pure cancer.

Machamp fully embraces the word uncompetitive. Even in some matchups that could be perceived as losing, Machamp often has a surpisingly big chance to force something stupid to happen. It does not need a whole lot more explaining. However, unlike other generations, Machamp is not only viable in gen 4 with No Guard & Dynamicpunch but great overall, especially with the Togekiss ban. Custap berry Machamp is so stupid too, and situations pop up as a Machamp user where you have to consider Enduring against a confused foe.

Counterplay that avoids confusion is pretty limited. There is Cresselia, other stally pokes and pokes that can OHKO Machamp. However, Machamp gets Encore, and can punish the foe for using Substitute or something like that. Custap or other berries can easily put encore on and put the opponent in a ridiculously annoying situation. Machamp is also surprisingly bulky, and can invest to take a Specs Zapdos HP Flying, for example.
Basically, when I think too much about a Machamp matchup, I get a headache.

My biggest issue overall is how many big tournament games get affected by Machamp. Here are some :
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen41v1-1306052964
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen41v1-1281142502-vl5ahi94sq553cjcr6x60ac76wupdjvpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen41v1-1310382407
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen41v1-1282007991-czt0ybq5ni8mr0mb3vcatvlfs6yqtskpw (this was my first team tournament game. Talk about a bad first impression...)

Just something I have been thinking about and talking about with a few others. I support a suspect, but I am not sure if I would vote ban or not. Machamp has an obnoxious, uncompetitive win condition with DynamicPunch, and Encore and Endure help this play out far more often than it should in important games. I do not know why gen 4 players been ignoring it, considering it decides way too many games.

Also, confusion is 50% chance to hit yourself in Gen 4. Maybe someone did not know that, Idk.

 

[superstrike66]

GSC 1v1 is now a challengeable format!

 

[SuperMemeBroz]

Everything is almost perfect in [Gen 2] 1v1 except destiny bond isn’t banned.
Tagging Kris for an implement pls

 

[Jabiru]

Aight I've made my opinions on the current state of dpp known a bit on discord, but its well past time I posted here and made them more publicly visible. I think most people would tend to agree that DPP isn't in a particularly healthy state at this point but opinions as to why/how to fix it vary.

Thing 1

The first point of discussion is obviously Machamp, which has been raised as a potentially uncompetitive mon within the metagame. Between its access to no guard dynamic punch, DPP's 50% confusion rate, encore 50/50s, and turn stalling with endure, Machamp has odds vs a huge chunk of the metagame with very few of its checks being particularly reliable answers, whilst still maintaining viability through its matchups outside of this hax, though for the sake of discussion on a ban by virtue of being uncompetitive we have to focus mostly on dynamic punch and confusion turns. I'd also like to highlight the significant difference between dynamic punch confusion hax and something like confuse ray because this is an argument that I've seen brought up a few times that I don't think is particularly compelling, using dynamic punch doesn't forego any offensive pressure for the sake of gaining the opportunity of a win through confusion, there is very minimal opportunity cost ensuring that dynamic punch is viable outside of the hax and thus relevant in a competitive setting. If people wish to push for these things to be banned alongside dynamic punch to limit confusion chances in the metagame, thats their prerogative but idt it has any weighting on discussion of Machamp.

Because its nearly 9am and I'm very tired, this is going to be a very brief run through of its matchups into vr, there are likely to be some mistakes but I think on the whole it should indicate just how many of its relevant matchups are heavily influenced by luck.

Matchups

Shaymin - often touted as one of the best Machamp answers. For the anti machamp physdef, machamp requires two consecutive confusion turns or to encore if the Shaymin leech seeds, other leech sets requirely only one confusion across two turns. Specs is ~62.5% rolls to kill Machamp, and Machamp would require two consecutive confuses if it endured t1, the optimal play is to rely on damage rolls.
Ttar - Wins vs non-chople, you can try to cheese chople counter but realistically its a 50/50 on the confusion turn.
Cress - Super cursed MU. I'd say generally if you have payback you're looking at probably jus under 25% odds depending on your damage rolls, slightly less for stall.
Dragonite - Machamp wins vs standard dnite sets.
Ape - Encore 50/50 vs their sub and endure 50/50 if they dont have mach.
Rachi - vs specs you need 3 confusions to win, vs scarf you need to not be flinched t1 or two confusions.
Raikou - specs loses, subtect is encore 50/50s
Zapdos - vs specs you need triple confusion, vs stall you need an encore 50/50 win or double confusion
Kingdra - you win vs physical, vs special you need a confusion turn, or some outplays on encore/endure 50/50s.
Registeel - you win
Aero - stall loses to encore, band loses to t2 endure
celebi - needs triple confusion vs boosting item, double vs scarf.
Heatran - Machamp wins vs non-chople, confusion 50/50 vs chople
Metagross - needs double confusion
Rhyperior - Wins vs custap, roll dependent to win vs band
Slaking - Machamp just wins
Suicune - Losing MU vs pressure stall, needs 1 confusion otherwise
Hariyama - requires 1 confusion turn (or lucky rolls)
Hera - needs double confusion but can stall for turns/chip with endure
Rotom - no hax, wins vs choiced, loses to willo
Sceptile - same as ape with encore/endure 50/50s
Scizor - you need a confusion turn
Swampert - you need a confusion turn
Tangrowth - you need two confusion turns (or 1 and rolls on spd)
Weavile - wins vs band, losing vs stall
Ambipom - endure 50/50
Arcanine - 44% rolls to not kill is more reliable than double confusion
Azelf - Requires double confusion
Bronzong - Requires one confusion
Clefable - Machamp wins
Empoleon - Needs a confusion turn
Entei - Machamp wins
Gallade - Machamp needs a confusion turn to win
Gyarados - Machamp needs one confusion
Hippo - Machamp needs one confusion turn
Staraptor - Needs two confusion turns
Venusaur - Needs two confusion turns

I'll stop there since the mons B- and below see such little play and I can't really be bothered

Obviously most of those matchups are relatively inconsistent but encore/endure 50/50s or rolls, whilst annoying are accepted as a part of mons and a part of the tier, so looking purely at matchups dependant on one or two confusion turns (with the idea that 3 is remote enough odds as to be perceived a fairly genuine answer to Machamp). We have shaymin, chople ttar, cress, scarf rachi, special kingdra, chople heatran, metagross, offensive suicune, hariyama, heracross, scizor, swampert, tangrowth, arcanine, azelf, bronzong, empoleon, gallade, gyarados, hippo, staraptor, venusaur as matchups that come down to confusion turns.

To my mind, that seems an excessive number, and I know from my own experience that trying to account for these unreliable matchups is incredibly restrictive on teambuilding. Whilst maybe not a truly fair comparison, 25% odds to beat the vast majority of the metagame seems awfully close to a certain 30% figure that we all recognise. I think such an uncompetitive pokemon is incredibly unhealthy for the metagame and has no place remaining in the tier. I've seen floated the ideas of banning No Guard or Dynamic Punch in place of Machamp, and so I just wanted to touch on these briefly. Banning No Guard is pretty blatantly ignoring all tiering philosophy, whilst its combination with dynamic punch is realistically the root of almost all these issues, no guard on its own is by no means inherently uncompetitive. Banning Dynamic Punch is a little bit more borderline, because I think you can make the argument that its an inherently uncompetitive move, but realistically its only problematic on Machamp and the precedent is a preference for banning a solitary abuser.

Thing 2

As a second point I'd just like to start a bit of a discussion on Shaymin, and its place in the tier. Between its number of sets in lefties, occa, salac, and choiced variants (and mail, yw @stableprince), it has become very difficult to find a reliable counter and with each of its sets on their own beating out large chunks of the metagame, I think its got to the point where is too restrictive on teambuilding, and I think a suspect could be warranted and then if it is banned potentially looking at any other issues as they arise (the likes of ttar and kingdra come to mind as immediate examples.

Edit: Additionally in regards to timeframe, I personally feel that if there is a relative consensus on Machamp theres no reason it couldn't be banned before classic playoffs but in all honesty I wouldn't be too concerned either way especially if others have stronger opinions on that. As to Shaymin, it should not be banned before the end of classic under any circumstances.

 

[PA]

We have heard concerns about how DPP is currently in a unhealthy position and I would like to address this today. Machamp is perhaps the most frustrating Pokemon to face in all of DPP 1v1. Machamp's unique skillset of No Guard combined with a gigantic base 130 Attack stat, 100% accurate Dynamic Punch, Encore and Endure, help ensure Machamp's position and gives it huge odds against Pokemon it normally shouldn't win against.
Jabiru has very kindly posted the matchups statistics so I won’t go into them in full detail, however, it fully indicates how restrictive Machamp’s effect has had on the metagame itself. Although, not used a whole ton in the previous World Cup, in general terms it has shown to have a immediate effect upon when battling. Now, this may seem enough to warrant it a complete ban, however, the fact remains that it has a considerable amount of checks which leads to the 2 aspects of Machamp that need further looking into: A) is it broken and B) is it unhealthy. We have outlined already that it has unhealthy but can it be said to be fully broken? In my current opinion, I’m leaning towards slightly but ever so slightly no but there will be a suspect for Machamp regarding what choice of action will be made. There will be 2 choices: A) Ban Machamp, B) Keep Machamp. I will be keeping a close eye on the results as well as the fellow opinions on the community to come to a concrete and coherent decision. Thank You and Goodbye.

 

[zioziotrip]

I've realized I don't really have the time for extensive MU charts in DPP but seeing as Jabiru already made a mostly* accurate Machamp MU chart I want to talk my opinions on the mon. I also wanted to talk about how I feel about the tier's state in general.
*BU Machamp MUs are just not there which has a lot more consistency vs some physical attackers mainly always beating ttar and u still have a lot of similar coinflip MUs, regardless Jabiru made a great post I just wanted to point out BU Machamp


I think Machamp is pretty blatantly uncompetitive in DPP. It forces a ton of the tier to risk a coin-flip and still has a fair amount of important MUs making a very decent pick outside of its haxxy nature. While Cress, Zap, and Shaymin have very very good odds (not absolute but nothing is absolute in pokemon) I don't think forcing one of the three on every team is very healthy even if they are great mons. Most teams that choose to diversify their usage to pokes outside of the A+ range will find themselves having to just risk the coin-flip a lot of the time or run some shitmon that serves limited purpose out of Machamp+a few other mons. Watching, playing, and building DPP I've realized how many times people depend on RNG as their Machamp check and I don't think Machamp is a good presence on the tier. Machamp is not broken as much as it's just uncompetitive, I don't really see a good argument against it being an uncompetitive presence as it is almost always able to force a dice-roll in losing MUs.

Beyond Machamp I think people know that DPP has an issue with a ton of mons being pretty absurd but kept in check by the other absurd mons in the tier or in the case of the stall duo 1/16 2x crits. In my opinion though one mon stands as a clear nuisance.


I think Shaymin is in need of a suspect or at least more discussion on its place in the tier. Between seeds (either lefties or mail), occa, scarf, and specs it just absurdly annoying to handle in the builder. You have like Registeel if you enjoy getting crit by specs ep ig and a lot of checks that usually work like Infernape and Scarf Gross but they don't handle ScarfMin so hf w them. You can also run weird sets/mons like Timid Specs Zap, Moltres, or Zard but it's pretty clear those are expressly for beating Min. I see a lot of people fearing that Kingdra/Ttar will be broken with its removal but I don't agree with keeping a broken mon to check another potentially broken mon, ban it if it's broken also there are other viable grasses that are currently overshadowed.

I think DPP is flawed in its current state and there needs to be an active effort towards adjusting it after classic which I plan to participate to as I can. Thanks for reading and Gn

 

[Potatochan]

fun fact: machamp can just bulk specs zapdos hp flying and stone edge it twice with custap (this set also always beats specs shaymin and has good odds vs leech seed)

 

[Itchy]

In case you were not aware, the DPP Machamp suspect is ongoing. There wasn't a formal announcement anywhere, but the result should be in soon™️

Pro-Ban Reasoning - No Guard Dynamic Punch is super uncompetitive, allows Machamp to cheese far too many matchups. Encore and Bulk Up are also good tools, and limit the solid checks even more.

Anti-Ban Reasoning - There are quite a few solid checks to Machamp, like Cresselia, Dusknoir, Suicune, etc. At the same time, many of Machamp's matchups are coin flips, both from confusion activation and predicting when to use Encore or attack.

The majority of votes are in, and it is looking close! (yes, I did qualify to vote)
I personally lean more towards ban, but I figured I wanted to present both sides of the argument here, especially since there has been no DNB representation in the thread. See you on the other side!