Town is definitely fucking the pooch this game
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
NOC 11p gen 1 closed setup (D4 End: Dec 25 at 5 PM PST)
- Thread starter Nuxl
- Start date
I looked back and Clarinet's Eagle suspicion actually is consistent. Hm. Less willing to get Clarinet today after thinking about that, at least.
Wrt Caffeine idk. I can see his indifference to Tommy/Former's 1v1 as potentially scummy if Tommy is town but that's the only really questionable play I can remember him, I don't really get why he's under suspicion here when I haven't gotten bad vibes from any of his other posts.
I think I'm overdue a reread. Will get to that in the next hour hopefully.
Wrt Caffeine idk. I can see his indifference to Tommy/Former's 1v1 as potentially scummy if Tommy is town but that's the only really questionable play I can remember him, I don't really get why he's under suspicion here when I haven't gotten bad vibes from any of his other posts.
I think I'm overdue a reread. Will get to that in the next hour hopefully.
shub is a townlean from how they came back to the game while they were a wagon. They had the opportunity to side with Tommy against Former while they were competing wagons and then decided to say that Tommy came out of it looking worse than Former, and instead tried to start a wagon on a stronger scumread. We know Former was town from the D1 flip so it feels like shub would have to be really ballsy as maf to play out the EOD like that. I guess their waffle onto keeping Former in the lynchpool weakens this after thinking about it some more but at the same time, shub waited for someone else to flip the wagon (and I'd been voting shub earlier in the day so it's hard to imagine they'd be confident in me).Not sure how to feel about this one. We have quite a difference in reads/ lynch candidates.
I am interested in why shub is town.?
What do you think of celver being "competent" scum?
I can see a Duskfall / Clarient case but it feels like a stretch.
You really said I might be frozen scum.
It's possible that Celever is competent scum but with the sheer volume of his posts I feel like there would be more inconsistencies within them than what I've seen if they were scum. I think he would've probably written himself into a corner by now, but I'm holding off on calling him a strong townread in case he is just being good at duping me.
A stretch because of mentionining interactions, or what?
And yeah when you ignored my posts near phase end and took a while to post I'm gonna wonder if you're having trouble working out what to type.
I did not manage to get around to the read in an hour, and rn I'm only halfway through the thread still.
I still don't see a reason to scumread Caffeine on my reread. I guess I'm not getting overwhelming townvibes from him but like, he's fine and it's kinda weird to see him being pressured rn.
I realised Tommy/Clarinets isn't that weird (at least on Clarinets side) because its not too dissimilar to Tommy/Celever in terms of interactions, so it doesn't really reflect on Clarinet badly. I guess it could be Tommy buddying regardless, but I'm less inclined to think this way because he had a post actually defending Former from one of Celever's points which I think he would be less inclined to make as scum. I think his tunnel would probably be like... stiffer ig, and I would expect scum!Tommy to either ignore Celever's post or join in, so I townread him off of that.
Biggest point of the reread so far is that I didn't realise how much Eagle was changing his opinions, like, all game. I knew he was going through lots of solves rn which is NAI but earlier his reads on shub and to a lesser extent Former seemed to shift more based on convenience of them being available wagons ig. Also I get kinda weird vibes from "Former has no reason to lie" as a reaction to the cop guilty? It's like "this is the correct play" which feels like it gives an easy out if Former retracted the claim.
Eagle, why did your opinion on shub change between here and here? I don't think shub had a single post between these points so it's weird to me that you're suddenly chill with them being lynched with your main point against it being that they're a low info lynch instead of the townread you had on them earlier.
I still don't see a reason to scumread Caffeine on my reread. I guess I'm not getting overwhelming townvibes from him but like, he's fine and it's kinda weird to see him being pressured rn.
I realised Tommy/Clarinets isn't that weird (at least on Clarinets side) because its not too dissimilar to Tommy/Celever in terms of interactions, so it doesn't really reflect on Clarinet badly. I guess it could be Tommy buddying regardless, but I'm less inclined to think this way because he had a post actually defending Former from one of Celever's points which I think he would be less inclined to make as scum. I think his tunnel would probably be like... stiffer ig, and I would expect scum!Tommy to either ignore Celever's post or join in, so I townread him off of that.
Biggest point of the reread so far is that I didn't realise how much Eagle was changing his opinions, like, all game. I knew he was going through lots of solves rn which is NAI but earlier his reads on shub and to a lesser extent Former seemed to shift more based on convenience of them being available wagons ig. Also I get kinda weird vibes from "Former has no reason to lie" as a reaction to the cop guilty? It's like "this is the correct play" which feels like it gives an easy out if Former retracted the claim.
Eagle, why did your opinion on shub change between here and here? I don't think shub had a single post between these points so it's weird to me that you're suddenly chill with them being lynched with your main point against it being that they're a low info lynch instead of the townread you had on them earlier.
Made it to the end of D1.
Approximately one page after I stopped for a break I started being bothered by Caffeine and his weird reaction test from voting Former. Like, BGB called it out on being weird but then Caffeine seems to find it suspicious that it caused BGB to start posting. iirc Caffeine was actually unvoting BGB to vote Former so it's kinda weird for BGB to question an unvote on himself and sus someone for it imo.
Eagle pushed one scum in Tommy/Former hard at phase end yesterday to the point that I'm worried because it looks like lining up lynches if Tommy really is town. I'm also very iffy on how they handled shub at phase end (they barely mentioned them) despite seeming to waffle a bit on Former and if it was correct + there's the "if Tommy and Former is TvT we've already lost" line which feels like another "correct play" justification thing for their actions. I wanna recheck how they handled Tommy today bc I know they've since shifted off of Tommy but kinda just skimmed their posts earlier because I was townreading them.
Tommy and shub are strongest townleans now. I'm kinda thinking of flipping the board completely and putting Clarinet up there because their train of thought hasbeen more consistent than I first realised after rereading D1 + what I can remember of D2 but I don't think I have the confidence there yet. Will admit to skimming over some Celever posts but I think him townreading Tommy looks good in the context of "now I also think Tommy is town" and I think the easiest way for maf to progress today would be to tunnel into Tommy.
I have like, negative brainwaves on TBZ. BGB is weird because if they're town and shub is also town EOD1 wagons were T/T/T which is really yikes and suggests scum deep in towncores (especially if Tommy too is town). Kinda struggling to form a strong opinion on the slot which probably isn't a good thing considering they were a major wagon yesterday, but meh.
Approximately one page after I stopped for a break I started being bothered by Caffeine and his weird reaction test from voting Former. Like, BGB called it out on being weird but then Caffeine seems to find it suspicious that it caused BGB to start posting. iirc Caffeine was actually unvoting BGB to vote Former so it's kinda weird for BGB to question an unvote on himself and sus someone for it imo.
Eagle pushed one scum in Tommy/Former hard at phase end yesterday to the point that I'm worried because it looks like lining up lynches if Tommy really is town. I'm also very iffy on how they handled shub at phase end (they barely mentioned them) despite seeming to waffle a bit on Former and if it was correct + there's the "if Tommy and Former is TvT we've already lost" line which feels like another "correct play" justification thing for their actions. I wanna recheck how they handled Tommy today bc I know they've since shifted off of Tommy but kinda just skimmed their posts earlier because I was townreading them.
Tommy and shub are strongest townleans now. I'm kinda thinking of flipping the board completely and putting Clarinet up there because their train of thought hasbeen more consistent than I first realised after rereading D1 + what I can remember of D2 but I don't think I have the confidence there yet. Will admit to skimming over some Celever posts but I think him townreading Tommy looks good in the context of "now I also think Tommy is town" and I think the easiest way for maf to progress today would be to tunnel into Tommy.
I have like, negative brainwaves on TBZ. BGB is weird because if they're town and shub is also town EOD1 wagons were T/T/T which is really yikes and suggests scum deep in towncores (especially if Tommy too is town). Kinda struggling to form a strong opinion on the slot which probably isn't a good thing considering they were a major wagon yesterday, but meh.
I've played with scum bgb on mu once as a partner
Sorry bgb for this but it was shockingly awful how had he could not express any form of towniness or form any really valid or justifiable read or reasoning at all. I think he is used to ps where reads aren't backed up as much and are more snappy all the time. What's that tell me about this game? Not much really, he's not as bad here as he was then but he could've been playing more forum or just improved or w/e but though if speak up about the info I did have on him.
So they were perma frozen, basically?
Vote: Eagle4
This is basically where D2 lands me. Eagle starts the day asking a bunch of people to vote Tommy (but gets almost no interest) and then eventually shifts to BGB who they didn't really seem to be interested at the end of phase yesterday. Same with their read on shub. It feels like their reads are kinda convenient with how they keep changing (especially the shub read on D1) and while I get that changing your mind happens it's like, it seems to happen with too much frequency and too neatly with a possible scumteam they've been thinking of. I feel like if they were changing their mind so much they would be lost on teams and less focused on one of X/Y being scum which is an easy way to line up a later lynch.
This is basically where D2 lands me. Eagle starts the day asking a bunch of people to vote Tommy (but gets almost no interest) and then eventually shifts to BGB who they didn't really seem to be interested at the end of phase yesterday. Same with their read on shub. It feels like their reads are kinda convenient with how they keep changing (especially the shub read on D1) and while I get that changing your mind happens it's like, it seems to happen with too much frequency and too neatly with a possible scumteam they've been thinking of. I feel like if they were changing their mind so much they would be lost on teams and less focused on one of X/Y being scum which is an easy way to line up a later lynch.
TOWN
11. shubaka17
2. Duskfall98
3. Celever
8. Clarinet
9. Thunder~BALLZ
5. bluegummybear
1. CaffeineBoost
4. Eagle4
MAFIA
Probably where I am now. I feel like the lack of defense from anyone else on shub makes it really likely they're a ML and I feel a little less confident in slamming Clarinet as town after thinking it through some more, but as things are I wouldn't vote them. TBZ is the null line because tbh he does this every game I've played with him and BGB is just a little beneath it and Caffeine a little beneath BGB. Still feels hard to have confidence in reads but Eagle scum just feels right, especially with the UTO kill.
11. shubaka17
2. Duskfall98
3. Celever
8. Clarinet
9. Thunder~BALLZ
5. bluegummybear
1. CaffeineBoost
4. Eagle4
MAFIA
Probably where I am now. I feel like the lack of defense from anyone else on shub makes it really likely they're a ML and I feel a little less confident in slamming Clarinet as town after thinking it through some more, but as things are I wouldn't vote them. TBZ is the null line because tbh he does this every game I've played with him and BGB is just a little beneath it and Caffeine a little beneath BGB. Still feels hard to have confidence in reads but Eagle scum just feels right, especially with the UTO kill.
What is the votecount?
The vote today should be BGB or Shub. Having us both alive Day 3 is just bad for town algorithm
A combination of an shub/bgb flip with a night kill outside of a bgb/shub Will surely boost the algorithm.
I think this is the best Step moving forward.
The vote today should be BGB or Shub. Having us both alive Day 3 is just bad for town algorithm
A combination of an shub/bgb flip with a night kill outside of a bgb/shub Will surely boost the algorithm.
I think this is the best Step moving forward.
happens when i played like, twice in the dayphase lol
if this is me eager to please i'd love to see me when i don't give a fr*ck lmao, sorry that i'm playing so good that it comes across as ingratiating
oh that's what you mean by a rainbow, idek why i didn't put that together.
Town
7. SB.
1. CaffeineBoost
8. Clarinet
3. Celever
9. Thunder~BALLZ
4. Eagle4
2. Duskfall98
5. bluegummybear
Mafia
to clarify, TBZ is the cutoff for null. yikes @ me and SB both super town-ing one another, but i guess that's what happens when we have similar reads.
a lot of good points have been brought up on eagle, and when pressed on it, his defense was "i'm basically universal townread" which is,,, not the move
tommy, you haven't done a d*rn thing to fix your flail from yesterday. i get former looks like a troll, but holy cow, you fed the internet troll and on reread its still more egregious on your part. we've had a 50/50 on you and him, and now a 50/50 on me and bgb (?) so hopefully a town vigilante or a gladiator tomorrow can force us to actually follow up on the second half of it.
vote bgb
damn, with tbz ghosting and the rest of the game in europe or their own b*tt i'm really about to quintuple post.
i'm gonna just admit that i'm having problems reading celever+clarinet's games right now, they have similar names and posting styles, and i literally cannot remember anything that one did to distinguish from one another. one of them partnered with tommy i think? one of them thought former was legit when he said he was Daycop? and one of them went ahead and high effort posted isos mid-late D1, which i vibe with heavy. so the both of them get my benefit of the doubt, especially when there's been enough incrimination against bgb and tommy and now eagle. if there's more than 3 scum in an 11P CS then we might need to review what we think of when we say "balanced, new player friendly game"
i'm gonna just admit that i'm having problems reading celever+clarinet's games right now, they have similar names and posting styles, and i literally cannot remember anything that one did to distinguish from one another. one of them partnered with tommy i think? one of them thought former was legit when he said he was Daycop? and one of them went ahead and high effort posted isos mid-late D1, which i vibe with heavy. so the both of them get my benefit of the doubt, especially when there's been enough incrimination against bgb and tommy and now eagle. if there's more than 3 scum in an 11P CS then we might need to review what we think of when we say "balanced, new player friendly game"
I’m having a busy day today sorry.
Having read through the thread and it nearing deadline (since Nuxl didn’t confirm or deny an extension I’m assuming we didn’t get one) I think bgb is probably still the play. Lack of anyone defending him worries me, but I don’t think we have another good option outside of a late phase flip to Caff.
My vote is already on him I think.
Nuxl even if TBZ comes and posts from now please just sub him out he’s missed a week of gameplay basically.
Having read through the thread and it nearing deadline (since Nuxl didn’t confirm or deny an extension I’m assuming we didn’t get one) I think bgb is probably still the play. Lack of anyone defending him worries me, but I don’t think we have another good option outside of a late phase flip to Caff.
My vote is already on him I think.
Nuxl even if TBZ comes and posts from now please just sub him out he’s missed a week of gameplay basically.
I was saying that dusk fall and clarinet being partners are is a stretch. So not likely the case
Vote
are you not doing the same thing but using your inactivity-related comment as a defense in some shape or form?
I think You just did it with duskfall just now.
Gladiator was brought up in the same sentence as Vig. Is gladiator common here?
Agh I think I agree but I also worry about flipping to Eagle because if he's killed and flips town, bgb vs shub probably just continues tomorrow.
Like, I guess at this point bgb is less useful to us because he's tunnelled shub all game to the extent that he's kinda expendable if he's town.
And I guess some information is provided by bgb but he's been tunnelling so hard that it boils down to WIFOM and isn't as useful actually.
I wish Caff were more scumread I really think he's the best option today on reflection.