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NOC 11p White Flag Thread
- Thread starter Nuxl
- Start date
206 normally id be ok with laurel pushing this but the angle he's taking is just too obvious. i think laurel's a lot smarter to just fall into hal's trap
-yeah same but someone else needs to push this instead of me because I can’t mislynch laurel four games in a row
-yeah same but someone else needs to push this instead of me because I can’t mislynch laurel four games in a row
honestly this is probably the correct way to approach this so on one hand im curious to see how this plays out but on the other hand i do think its a waste of time. think ill let u dudes figure it out.
you missed your chance dude. this was a perfect opportunity to get me to talk. there's nothing i love more than arguing over things ive said.
you missed your chance dude. this was a perfect opportunity to get me to talk. there's nothing i love more than arguing over things ive said.
are you genuinely worried about that perception. hm. i was going to say something but i guess i can see your pov.
i do think i understand what you are trying to accomplish though.
spill your guts bruh
you do you but i personally wouldn't be getting too paranoid about that right now.
it's not about throwing shade, it's not personal, it's professional. i'm trying to be objective about the game so i'm going to note out weird things to me even if overall i holistically read you as town. maybe it's hedging, but for me it's just bringing up important things that I may want to rethink about. the notes are primarily for me anyways.
aight well i got my ice cream, bout to fire up FFX and chill for a half hour. maybe ill respond in the meantime but don't count on it.
it's not about throwing shade, it's not personal, it's professional. i'm trying to be objective about the game so i'm going to note out weird things to me even if overall i holistically read you as town. maybe it's hedging, but for me it's just bringing up important things that I may want to rethink about. the notes are primarily for me anyways.
aight well i got my ice cream, bout to fire up FFX and chill for a half hour. maybe ill respond in the meantime but don't count on it.
i think i've pinned down the exact reason why i don't like the way people play offsite (non-smogon)
say you have a big bucket full of strategies that tell you how to play mafia. one strategy might be "be active as town, encourage discussion, share all your thoughts and be transparents". another strategy might be "as town, be reserved and only share strong reads when you have them to avoid adding noise and chaos".
i feel like some people feel like there is a single strategy that town should adhere to. so there's a kind of herding behavior...everyone knows what the "best" game is and everyone tries to play that. people are judged for their ability to emulate a prescripted playstyle.
which is kind of insane when you think about it, no? because you're judging someone for their ability to understand the existing meta (which disadvantages new player), for their ability to follow a formula (which is not alignment indicative at all), for their ability to signal very specific predetermined things. if you can signal those things, like logical thinking, then you're good! you get to be called town
that's not trying to determine a person's alignment at all
whereas on smogon, either because the quality of play is more diverse or because people here have played a lot more with each other (like i have played maybe a dozen games with some of you at this point), we read the person instead of the playstyle
or at least that's my perspective
say you have a big bucket full of strategies that tell you how to play mafia. one strategy might be "be active as town, encourage discussion, share all your thoughts and be transparents". another strategy might be "as town, be reserved and only share strong reads when you have them to avoid adding noise and chaos".
i feel like some people feel like there is a single strategy that town should adhere to. so there's a kind of herding behavior...everyone knows what the "best" game is and everyone tries to play that. people are judged for their ability to emulate a prescripted playstyle.
which is kind of insane when you think about it, no? because you're judging someone for their ability to understand the existing meta (which disadvantages new player), for their ability to follow a formula (which is not alignment indicative at all), for their ability to signal very specific predetermined things. if you can signal those things, like logical thinking, then you're good! you get to be called town
that's not trying to determine a person's alignment at all
whereas on smogon, either because the quality of play is more diverse or because people here have played a lot more with each other (like i have played maybe a dozen games with some of you at this point), we read the person instead of the playstyle
or at least that's my perspective
i was talking about this to dle and rad when they were in dc with me and we were talking about mafia
what's the endgame of mafia? what does the perfect group of mafia players look like?
well, they don't have perfect reads because then that means that they're playing scum wrong. but it means that EX ANTE TO DRAWING ALIGNMENT, each player is scumread day 1 with probability equal to whatever the baseline expectation chance of drawing scum
so if we're playing in a game with 3 scum 10 town, everyone gets called scum day 1 exactly 23% of the time. If you get called scum more or less than that, then that means that the other people trying to read you are miscalibrating their reads
suppose i'm in a game with someone like laurel who i always scumread, right. well, over 100 games, if i call laurel scum 100 times just because i don't like the way he plays, then clearly i'm fucking insane and am doing a horrible job as town. how often should i scumread him? in equilibrium, 23%
of course we're not in equilibrium right now. but it's kind of interesting to think about this. because one outcome of going thru this motion is that you understand that you can't be townread all the time. if you do get townread all the time, then everyone else is doing a shit job of reading you. and they calibrate eventually
so you can't change how often you get scumread. what can you change? well, you can change what alignment you are when you do get scumread. would you prefer to be always read correctly (be IC when town, instalynched when scum)? would you prefer to have an excellent scumgame--in this scenario, that comes at the cost of a bad town game.
what's the endgame of mafia? what does the perfect group of mafia players look like?
well, they don't have perfect reads because then that means that they're playing scum wrong. but it means that EX ANTE TO DRAWING ALIGNMENT, each player is scumread day 1 with probability equal to whatever the baseline expectation chance of drawing scum
so if we're playing in a game with 3 scum 10 town, everyone gets called scum day 1 exactly 23% of the time. If you get called scum more or less than that, then that means that the other people trying to read you are miscalibrating their reads
suppose i'm in a game with someone like laurel who i always scumread, right. well, over 100 games, if i call laurel scum 100 times just because i don't like the way he plays, then clearly i'm fucking insane and am doing a horrible job as town. how often should i scumread him? in equilibrium, 23%
of course we're not in equilibrium right now. but it's kind of interesting to think about this. because one outcome of going thru this motion is that you understand that you can't be townread all the time. if you do get townread all the time, then everyone else is doing a shit job of reading you. and they calibrate eventually
so you can't change how often you get scumread. what can you change? well, you can change what alignment you are when you do get scumread. would you prefer to be always read correctly (be IC when town, instalynched when scum)? would you prefer to have an excellent scumgame--in this scenario, that comes at the cost of a bad town game.
i've had thought experiments like this before. and that's why i always argue with people like tommy, who think that if person A gets mislynched, it's their fault
no, it really isn't. that's such a mafiascum/451 way of thinking. because you're saying that a person got mislynched because they didn't follow the formula you (or site meta) prescribed for what town should do
which is fucking crazy! why on earth should you make judgments on a person's alignment based on how well they can play simon says? it's such an awful way of thinking
if person A gets mislynched by town 100% of the time, it's not their fault, it's the rest of towns for not calibrating their reads correctly.
so i've always thought that the burden of lynching correctly lies in the person making the read. not on the person they're making a judgement on.
no, it really isn't. that's such a mafiascum/451 way of thinking. because you're saying that a person got mislynched because they didn't follow the formula you (or site meta) prescribed for what town should do
which is fucking crazy! why on earth should you make judgments on a person's alignment based on how well they can play simon says? it's such an awful way of thinking
if person A gets mislynched by town 100% of the time, it's not their fault, it's the rest of towns for not calibrating their reads correctly.
so i've always thought that the burden of lynching correctly lies in the person making the read. not on the person they're making a judgement on.
how can you not love this man?
when?still think that apricity hardclaiming scum non-stop would be a stinky move if he's town
also he was trying to make me part of his team, so my vote stays even though I was contemplating to move it
apricity's tactic reminds me of someone else, that's what Val does as scum, he basically latches onto a townie to deviate from the main subject
also he was trying to make me part of his team, so my vote stays even though I was contemplating to move it
apricity's tactic reminds me of someone else, that's what Val does as scum, he basically latches onto a townie to deviate from the main subject