1v1 1v1 Classic IV - Information, Resources, and Discussion

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Boat

Boat

fuck nintendo
is a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Staff Alumnusis a Dedicated Tournament Host Alumnus
1V1_classic3.png

Thank you Brumirage for the incredible art!​

Welcome to the fourth edition of 1v1 Classic! A year has passed since Robyn won the biggest old gens event in 1v1, and it's once again time to see who will prove themselves the best. Players will compete in individual cups for SM, ORAS, BW, DPP, and ADV. The most successful players will enter a single elimination playoffs bracket to compete for the prestigious white trophy.

1v1 Classic consists of five separate tournaments: SM Cup, ORAS Cup, BW Cup, DPP Cup, and ADV Cup. Each tournament is single elimination, best of five. Depending on your performance in a Cup, you will be awarded points. The point system is the same as the one used in Smogon Tour (see this for further explanation). When all the Cups have been finished, the eight players with the most points will advance to the play-offs.

Signups for each cup will last one week. Hosts of each cup are allowed to play in the tournament they are hosting, because the Smogon bracketmaker can't be rigged. Here are the hosts this year!
  • SM Cup, hosted by Mubs, signups begin August 23rd
  • ORAS Cup, hosted by Poison Adhesive, signups begin August 30th
  • BW Cup, hosted by Arai, signups begin August 30th
  • DPP Cup, hosted by zioziotrip, signups begin September 6th
  • ADV Cup, hosted by stableprince569, signups begin September 6th
Resources
SM Banlist and Resources
ORAS Banlist and Resources
BW Banlist and Resources
DPP Banlist and Resources
ADV Banlist and Resources

Standings
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1i0YXlyHLRZjF7AEEfZJ5gULNrUcNw_wI-bdGmlzylBo
 
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Playoffs Format

- This year, eight players will make playoffs.
- Qualification only uses points.
- The order of seeding will go Points > Win Ratio > Deepest Run (measured by # of rounds won).
- Playoffs will stay Bo3o5 (Best of 3 of 5).
- The process for choosing formats is as follows:

(During Scheduling)
- Low Seed Picks 1
- High Seed Picks 1
- High Seed Strikes 1
- Low Seed Strikes 1

Tiers are the two picked tiers and whatever is left after the strikes. The high seed will select which tier is played first, and the loser of Game 1 will pick the tier for Game 2.
 
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The issue with having an 8 person playoff instead of 16th like last year with the introduction of SM to classic.

8 person classic feels kind of like a let down. It was a rewarding experience for those who did well. It allowed the players who would preform in cups as well as users who did well to qualify. With the 12 player playoffs before it allowed for players who either got haxed or who were better in another generation to be allowed to get in. With the addition of sm to classic this year, it will only allow for more points to be given towards users who preform well in sm as it will be a more popular tour, affectingly making tours like adv or dpp less impact due to its low sign ups in the past.

With hosting sm first and doing in deciding order it just makes it so a sm player/players to effectively take up majority of the spots. Adding such an impactful generation to classic then ultimately bone headed. I understand the narrative boat is trying to do with 1v1. Make 1v1 official. But this is making classic the are you good at sm & oras tour.

A fair argument would be, "we've been gaining more sign-ups every time we host a tour." But you should be very much aware of how the point systems work, as you have experience with them and are trying to make 1v1 more official. So how does making classic, which in the past has been about the older gens more focused on sm a better idea. I continue to pick at this because you've lowered the seeds to 8....

Classic I: Joker #8 (12 seedings)
Classic II: SoulWind #6 (12 seedings)
Classic III: Robyn #13 (16 seedings)​

Classic isn't about winning a cup, classic is about being the "best overall" at all old gens. Not just some. And making it so we are only bringing the top 8 players in terms of points is a slap in the face. In Classic II, Deg who was the 12th seed made it to semis...Robyn who was the 13th seed won the entire tournament. I'll even go as far and say her opponent for the finals was LRXC THE NUMBER 15TH SEED!

All it ends up doing is adding 1 more extra week, and allows for a more balanced tournament than forcing it to be generation 7 heavy, since #1 plays #16 as they did in last years classic tournament.

Boat Changing classic to an 8 seeded tour and adding sm, (which you are very much aware will be worth a lot of points due to the popularity of the generation) is a very dumb call. Classic is a tour for ALL OLD GENERATIONS not just the newer ones.

As a previous winner, and as a member of the 1v1 community I encourage you change playoffs to 16 SEEDS like we had last year. I stick true to this opinion and hope you see the issues in this apparent change you set to make.

- In best wishes, Joker :)
 
1. The # of points to qualify was far too low with 16 man playoffs. Last year, players with a mere 6 points qualified for playoffs tiebreak. With 6 as the cutoff, it is actually quite reasonable to believe playoffs would be dominated by SM Cup (on the assumption SM Cup reached the next bracket size cutoff). However, with only 8 players in playoffs, the cutoff rises to 9. The only people earning 9 points in a 128 Size bracket are the Winner (11) and Runner Up (9). Nobody else will be able to exclusively qualify from SM, and certainly not a majority, like you said.

2. The awful, miserable, terrible, disgusting tiebreak from last year was a direct result of too many players qualifying for playoffs. The higher the cutoff, the less likely a tiebreak is. Unless we get substantially more entrants across the board, we are still in danger of a similar tiebreak.

3. I think you are overemphasizing the impact of SM Cup. It's gonna be, at worst, worth 2 more points than the other cups. That's not exactly a huge bias. Even if you think that is too much bias towards SM, that bias is coming from a higher number of entrants, not some arbitrary factor that I'm deciding. If SM Cup gets 128 entrants, and ADV Cup gets 48 entrants, I don't think it's a stretch to believe SM Cup should have a higher impact on the standings.

4. This has nothing to do with my goal of making 1v1 official and I'm not exactly sure what kind of point you were trying to make there.

I agree eight man playoffs feels to small, but for practical purposes, it's best right now. When we are more easily able to move to 16 man playoffs, trust I will, because I want it too.
 
Boat said:
1. The # of points to qualify was far too low with 16 man playoffs. Last year, players with a mere 6 points qualified for playoffs tiebreak. With 6 as the cutoff, it is actually quite reasonable to believe playoffs would be dominated by SM Cup (on the assumption SM Cup reached the next bracket size cutoff). However, with only 8 players in playoffs, the cutoff rises to 9. The only people earning 9 points in a 128 Size bracket are the Winner (11) and Runner Up (9). Nobody else will be able to exclusively qualify from SM, and certainly not a majority, like you said.

2. The awful, miserable, terrible, disgusting tiebreak from last year was a direct result of too many players qualifying for playoffs. The higher the cutoff, the less likely a tiebreak is. Unless we get substantially more entrants across the board, we are still in danger of a similar tiebreak.

3. I think you are overemphasizing the impact of SM Cup. It's gonna be, at worst, worth 2 more points than the other cups. That's not exactly a huge bias. Even if you think that is too much bias towards SM, that bias is coming from a higher number of entrants, not some arbitrary factor that I'm deciding. If SM Cup gets 128 entrants, and ADV Cup gets 48 entrants, I don't think it's a stretch to believe SM Cup should have a higher impact on the standings.

4. This has nothing to do with my goal of making 1v1 official and I'm not exactly sure what kind of point you were trying to make there.

I agree eight man playoffs feels to small, but for practical purposes, it's best right now. When we are more easily able to move to 16 man playoffs, trust I will, because I want it too.
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In your 1st point you said 6 points was the cutoff/tie breaker. We are adding in sm which will increase the points. You say "the cutoff rises to 9" this however is false because we have no idea what the cutoff will end up being. It's a rough guess but I'll go ahead and take it as you using the number of pts. 8th place had in Classic III which was 9. But if we adding more pts an additional 3 as you stated that would fall around 12pts to make playoffs. Which only 4 users were able to do, and of those 4 users they made or were runner-ups to the cup they were in. (None would go on to make semis) Semis where it was #8, #11, #13, #15.

Your 2nd point you stated how it was a horrible tiebreaker. Sure, but LRXC was in that and made Finals. So it wasn't at all pointless. With sm being added gives a chance for more points to be earned as well. But as you said before theres still a high chance we have a tiebreaker, so whats the issue.

SM was the most popular and favorite generation of any for 1v1. A close 2nd would be generation 6. The reason I hate 8 seeds alot with our addition of this is that more points will be generated from sm than other generations. The tournament is called Classic where we do old gens. And if you cap the number of playoff spots at 8 it literally makes older generations like adv for ex. have way more less meaning.
Let's use what you said 128 users for sm. thats 9 pts for runner up and 11 for the winner. If you win adv for ex. that can range from 32-48 users on avg. that ends up being 7-8 for a winner and 5 pts for a runner up. you get 5 pts for coming in second in adv but for sm 5 pts is round 4 for sm which is quarterfinals. How does making top 8 in a sm tour = the same prestige as winner a cup or a runner up.
That's why I have an issue with 8 seeds and sm being the first tournament because as you are aware people lose interest the longer a tour goes on because they arent able to succeed. If you lose in sm or oras you basically have to end up making semis in the remaining cups to have a chance if we going off the 9pt cutoff...

As for the point I'm trying to make in all this is, why does it matter if a tournament goes an extra week. By doing top 8, its suppose to make it more competitive. So some people keep saying...Classic has always been competitive. You can use the example of, oh all I had to do was win 6 match ups last year. That's still 6 match-ups. Or ex. 2 wins in each tour. That would get you 10pts. This year. Its says you are well rounded in old gens...the point of the tournament or else we would call it "THE BE GOOD AT GEN 6 & 7 TOUR"


"I agree eight man playoffs feels to small, but for practical purposes, it's best right now. When we are more easily able to move to 16 man playoffs, trust I will, because I want it too." - Boat

The only thing I got from this was you won't do 16 seeds because you are scared we will have a tie-breaker again. But state we will still probably have one because people will sign-up for the tournament.

All that seems to be stopping you from doing a top 16, like you said you wanted to, is the fear that we have a tie-breaker series again. Maybe its because you dont want it ruining 1v1 championship. Its not gonna ruin it for anyone. All a top 16 does it allow for more competitiveness and more pokemon. I'm aware you are able to do whatever you pretty much please. But I do ask you to just considerate since its just more fun for the community as well as the people competing. (You may always try a room poll to let the community deiced)

I'm just a community member voicing my opinion boat. Opportunity is something we should always strive for, no matter if others are not :)


I want to make this clear, I am not attacking boat, or any decisions he makes. I believe in my opinion for a 16 seed playoffs, and have provided my reasoning. If you have any resentment towards me or boat in our discussions please take it up with us privately. Just remember 1v1 is a place & a community we come to for fun. Please do not hate others for opinions they share. <3 - Joker​
 
Joker 1v1 said:
In your 1st point you said 6 points was the cutoff/tie breaker. We are adding in sm which will increase the points. You say "the cutoff rises to 9" this however is false because we have no idea what the cutoff will end up being. It's a rough guess but I'll go ahead and take it as you using the number of pts. 8th place had in Classic III which was 9. But if we adding more pts an additional 3 as you stated that would fall around 12pts to make playoffs. Which only 4 users were able to do, and of those 4 users they made or were runner-ups to the cup they were in. (None would go on to make semis) Semis where it was #8, #11, #13, #15.
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Yea I'm using the Classic III numbers. Obviously those wont be the actual cutoffs for this tour. I don't know where you got the additional 3 points estimation from. I do expect the cutoff for Classc IV to be at or above 12 though. The number of people who reached 12 points last year is irrelevant, this year there is a 5th Cup, and we expect all the cups to be larger. Larger tournaments are worth more points.


Joker 1v1 said:
Your 2nd point you stated how it was a horrible tiebreaker. Sure, but LRXC was in that and made Finals. So it wasn't at all pointless. With sm being added gives a chance for more points to be earned as well. But as you said before theres still a high chance we have a tiebreaker, so whats the issue.
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I never said it was pointless. I said it was a horrible tiebreaker, which it was. Classic was delayed by multiple weeks because of a five way tie for the last three seeds. Literally everyone was giving us heat for this tiebreaker, it was pretty universally hated. The high chance for a tiebreak is if we have 16 man playoffs. There won't be a nasty tiebreak with 8 man playoffs.

Joker 1v1 said:
SM was the most popular and favorite generation of any for 1v1. A close 2nd would be generation 6. The reason I hate 8 seeds alot with our addition of this is that more points will be generated from sm than other generations. The tournament is called Classic where we do old gens. And if you cap the number of playoff spots at 8 it literally makes older generations like adv for ex. have way more less meaning.
Let's use what you said 128 users for sm. thats 9 pts for runner up and 11 for the winner. If you win adv for ex. that can range from 32-48 users on avg. that ends up being 7-8 for a winner and 5 pts for a runner up. you get 5 pts for coming in second in adv but for sm 5 pts is round 4 for sm which is quarterfinals. How does making top 8 in a sm tour = the same prestige as winner a cup or a runner up.
That's why I have an issue with 8 seeds and sm being the first tournament because as you are aware people lose interest the longer a tour goes on because they arent able to succeed. If you lose in sm or oras you basically have to end up making semis in the remaining cups to have a chance if we going off the 9pt cutoff...
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Okay, sure, SM will generate more points than other gens. Gens 4 through 6 will also probably generate more points than ADV, going by last years numbers. You say that having fewer playoffs spots means smaller cups are less important. Having fewer playoff spots actually does the opposite. Last year, we had people in playoffs that performed badly in most of their cups. With 8 people in playoffs, you are practically required to have a decent performance in multiple cups. This means that ADV is more important than it was last year. Also, there is a zero percent chance ADV has 32 entrants. It's not gonna happen. Even 48 is unlikely. I expect ADV to reach 64 entrants. "How does making top 8 in a sm tour = the same prestige as winner a cup or a runner up." because the points are based on the number of rounds. You don't get points for specific placings, you get points for winning rounds. I also want to make it clear that SM is going to be worth a whole 2 points more than 64 size tours, and an enormous 1 point more than 96 size tours (which is where I expect ORAS to be). Tournament aren't going to be equal size, and giving points based on # of rounds won is literally the system that balances their value.

Joker 1v1 said:
As for the point I'm trying to make in all this is, why does it matter if a tournament goes an extra week. By doing top 8, its suppose to make it more competitive. So some people keep saying...Classic has always been competitive. You can use the example of, oh all I had to do was win 6 match ups last year. That's still 6 match-ups. Or ex. 2 wins in each tour. That would get you 10pts. This year. Its says you are well rounded in old gens...the point of the tournament or else we would call it "THE BE GOOD AT GEN 6 & 7 TOUR"


"I agree eight man playoffs feels to small, but for practical purposes, it's best right now. When we are more easily able to move to 16 man playoffs, trust I will, because I want it too." - Boat

The only thing I got from this was you won't do 16 seeds because you are scared we will have a tie-breaker again. But state we will still probably have one because people will sign-up for the tournament.

All that seems to be stopping you from doing a top 16, like you said you wanted to, is the fear that we have a tie-breaker series again. Maybe its because you dont want it ruining 1v1 championship. Its not gonna ruin it for anyone. All a top 16 does it allow for more competitiveness and more pokemon. I'm aware you are able to do whatever you pretty much please. But I do ask you to just considerate since its just more fun for the community as well as the people competing. (You may always try a room poll to let the community deiced)​
Click to expand...

6 matches to qualify for playoffs is tiny. You can get that from a single tour pretty easily, say perhaps from SM. Raising the cutoff literally demands that you perform well in multiple cups. If you lower the cutoff by making playoffs 16 man, you're gonna see a ton of people who qualify exclusively by SM like you're worried about. And yea, I am pretty worried about a 5 way 3 position tiebreaker considering how badly it fucked up Classic last year. Your concerns about SM Cup dominating standings are legitimate, but this change makes SM Cup less impactful, not more impactful.
 
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Boat said:
Yea I'm using the Classic III numbers. Obviously those wont be the actual cutoffs for this tour. I don't know where you got the additional 3 points estimation from. I do expect the cutoff for Classc IV to be at or above 12 though. The number of people who reached 12 points last year is irrelevant, this year there is a 5th Cup, and we expect all the cups to be larger. Larger tournaments are worth more points.




I never said it was pointless. I said it was a horrible tiebreaker, which it was. Classic was delayed by multiple weeks because of a five way tie for the last three seeds. Literally everyone was giving us heat for this tiebreaker, it was pretty universally hated. The high chance for a tiebreak is if we have 16 man playoffs. There won't be a nasty tiebreak with 8 man playoffs.



Okay, sure, SM will generate more points than other gens. Gens 4 through 6 will also probably generate more points than ADV, going by last years numbers. You say that having fewer playoffs spots means smaller cups are less important. Having fewer playoff spots actually does the opposite. Last year, we had people in playoffs that performed badly in most of their cups. With 8 people in playoffs, you are practically required to have a decent performance in multiple cups. This means that ADV is more important than it was last year. Also, there is a zero percent chance ADV has 32 entrants. It's not gonna happen. Even 48 is unlikely. I expect ADV to reach 64 entrants. "How does making top 8 in a sm tour = the same prestige as winner a cup or a runner up." because the points are based on the number of rounds. You don't get points for specific placings, you get points for winning rounds. I also want to make it clear that SM is going to be worth a whole 2 points more than 64 size tours, and an enormous 1 point more than 96 size tours (which is where I expect ORAS to be). Tournament are going to be equal size, and giving points based on # of rounds won is literally the system that balances their value.



6 matches to qualify for playoffs is tiny. You can get that from a single tour pretty easily, say perhaps from SM. Raising the cutoff literally demands that you perform well in multiple cups. If you lower the cutoff by making playoffs 16 man, you're gonna see a ton of people who qualify exclusively by SM like you're worried about. And yea, I am pretty worried about a 5 way 3 position tiebreaker considering how badly it fucked up Classic last year. Your concerns about SM Cup dominating standings are legitimate, but this change makes SM Cup less impactful, not more impactful.
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You were the one who stated 6 > 9 that's 3 points. As I stated in the post you replied to. And yes there will be a 5th cup. SM. And yes we will have a greater number of sign-ups. As we had a trend of, which we went over above a bit. But yes we've both just used the, "there will be more points" argument towards each other, so that's basically done with.

You've said tie-breakers are universally hated. Sure, its hated by the users who proved they belong in the tour. As well as some spectators who just want it to move forward. But there will always be that chance of a tie-breaker. Adding more points making less spots. That's a concern for a tie-breaker. Either way you or I look at it, there will always be a chance of a tie-breaker. Your concern is the feedback you will get if we have a "nasty" tie -breaker. But have also said you want 16 and would do that when you could. When would you do that, when generation 9 comes out. There is literally no reason to do 8 this year and 16 next year if nothing changes. But let's say you do wait until a new generation is implemented. Whether that's the final 2 old gens or a new one. You are basically saying you plan on keeping theses rules for at least another year. But what changes next year, "oh lets just try 16 again" or we have someone new in charge of it. You're entire reasoning is based on fear or backlash. No matter what you do you will always receive that. That's life. As well as being in a position of power.

I'm using the same point system you provided the one we've always used. I've stated in my posts above as well, showing you the examples of each rounds points. But it seems you've glossed over those. You stated a 128 user cup for sm is the ex. that's 9 points for a runner up and 11 for a winner. So that is 6 rounds. 5 rounds for a sm tour is 7 pts, and round 4 is 5pts. The same number of points for coming in 2nd in an adv or dpp. If we are going off classic III like you have been for your stats. The same stat system you've posted, the same one we've used in all the tournaments and the same one I used in the sheet when I did sheets for 1v1.

Classic again is for best overall tournament. So if you do well in each tour you are rewarded. You don't have to be the best at one tour to be allowed to qualify. But your concern is the feedback. All it does it allow more people the opportunity to show they are the best or hax was the reason why. The higher seeds (that's 9-16 for anyone wondering) have done nothing but prove they more than belong in the past. Boat, at this point I can tell we will continue to go back and forth on this, and it ending with you staying with 8 because you don't want to receive feedback that's harsh. You've said you want it to be 16 as well.

So, my honest opinion on this is we should have the community decide. If they want 8 then they can have 8, but if they choose 16 they can have 16. Let the community as a whole decide what they would prefer. We both have separate opinions, and a debate or argument doesn't have to end with a winner. If the community is the focus for these tours like they should be, they should have a right to be heard and not be told what's good for them. I mean no hate, just feel its best if we get a more broad response and opinions than yours or mine.
 
Update: After a couple hours of talking, boat & I going back and forth on statements and reasoning we've decided to see how many sign-ups we end up getting for cups because at this point all we can do is speculate and only so many decisions should be made on speculations at one point in time.
 
Joker 1v1 said:
Update: After a couple hours of talking, boat & I going back and forth on statements and reasoning we've decided to see how many sign-ups we end up getting for cups because at this point all we can do is speculate and only so many decisions should be made on speculations at one point in time.
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Uhh no, i did not agree to "see until signups". I agreed the convo needed to end cause i have homework to do lmao. its staying at 8
 
You as said "in hosting you have to do whats best for the tour", refusing to do a poll to let the community decide because you are scared of a tie breaker. When there's always a chance of a tie breaker. Because if there's a tie breaker that's the hosts fault. That's what you said.

When I brought this up you said...
"we cant do a community poll for every decision in every tour
is like when there is a controversial act decision"

You're removing half the spots, telling me you've talk to the cup hosts and they like your idea sine January.
You then said you will go to 16 seeds when there is evidence. And you said that once we have more players that will change everything.
More players means about 1 extra round, that's like a couple points, and that will change everything so 16 players are viable.

I got to a point where there was no getting through to you, so I then tried to say why not go to 12 since it was tested. Your response was that 12 is literally just 16 but we give out byes.
I asked for you to do a poll to let the community decide and you said they only solve short term problems.
But your solution is to move forward with 8 because doing 16 with sm128/96oras/64bw/64dpp/64adv is far too scary for a tie breaker. But sm128/96oras/96bw/96dpp/64adv changes this. you are literally just adding a couple more points. How tf is that a solution.

So I ended the conversation there because we were getting anywhere and you thought I was changing my stance.

You said you would chance your stance on 16 seeds, which you said you wanted personally.
gredf.png


so lets use math...if we reach these numbers, what then. will you continue to say 8th is the way to go. The community is growing lets make it harder for them to get in. If this was the number you gave out for next year that you would be willing to have 16 seeds. If we reach it this year why not try 16 because that's your solution. Because more people means no tie breakers!
fewef.png


I believe 16th seeds is fair, you want 16 seeds but are scared of tie breakers. You probably will continue with 8 seed no matter what happens because you believe its fair to have 8 people yet are scared shittless history repeats itself.
I'm not trying to sound hateful, just voicing my opinion and understand you view but I don't agree with it, especially how you are saying the community more or less doesn't know what's best for them. I hate patronizing shit like that.
asdf-png.270495


You will always have heat. The best live with it and try to move on. You won't make everyone happy in life, and you and choose whatever you do. No one is gonna stop you, you're the host and Team Leader of 1v1. Whether users support that call is on them. I've always wanted staff & community involvement. I'm not afraid to get into drama and have people dislike me for it. I have a voice and I believe the community should be allowed to voice theirs. Whatever they feel on this matter. I've hated the patronizing aspect we had in the past and I hate it irl. We are all people with a voice and concern. In the past I asked no hate to come upon you, and I wish the same as I always will. You are welcome to continue talking to me in dms.

I just needed to post my response here because I want more opportunities not less for the community, and I plan to achieve that.
 

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Joker 1v1 said:
You as said "in hosting you have to do whats best for the tour", refusing to do a poll to let the community decide because you are scared of a tie breaker. When there's always a chance of a tie breaker. Because if there's a tie breaker that's the hosts fault. That's what you said.

When I brought this up you said...
"we cant do a community poll for every decision in every tour
is like when there is a controversial act decision"

You're removing half the spots, telling me you've talk to the cup hosts and they like your idea sine January.
You then said you will go to 16 seeds when there is evidence. And you said that once we have more players that will change everything.
More players means about 1 extra round, that's like a couple points, and that will change everything so 16 players are viable.

I got to a point where there was no getting through to you, so I then tried to say why not go to 12 since it was tested. Your response was that 12 is literally just 16 but we give out byes.
I asked for you to do a poll to let the community decide and you said they only solve short term problems.
But your solution is to move forward with 8 because doing 16 with sm128/96oras/64bw/64dpp/64adv is far too scary for a tie breaker. But sm128/96oras/96bw/96dpp/64adv changes this. you are literally just adding a couple more points. How tf is that a solution.

So I ended the conversation there because we were getting anywhere and you thought I was changing my stance.

You said you would chance your stance on 16 seeds, which you said you wanted personally.View attachment 270493

so lets use math...if we reach these numbers, what then. will you continue to say 8th is the way to go. The community is growing lets make it harder for them to get in. If this was the number you gave out for next year that you would be willing to have 16 seeds. If we reach it this year why not try 16 because that's your solution. Because more people means no tie breakers!
View attachment 270494

I believe 16th seeds is fair, you want 16 seeds but are scared of tie breakers. You probably will continue with 8 seed no matter what happens because you believe its fair to have 8 people yet are scared shittless history repeats itself.
I'm not trying to sound hateful, just voicing my opinion and understand you view but I don't agree with it, especially how you are saying the community more or less doesn't know what's best for them. I hate patronizing shit like that.
asdf-png.270495


You will always have heat. The best live with it and try to move on. You won't make everyone happy in life, and you and choose whatever you do. No one is gonna stop you, you're the host and Team Leader of 1v1. Whether users support that call is on them. I've always wanted staff & community involvement. I'm not afraid to get into drama and have people dislike me for it. I have a voice and I believe the community should be allowed to voice theirs. Whatever they feel on this matter. I've hated the patronizing aspect we had in the past and I hate it irl. We are all people with a voice and concern. In the past I asked no hate to come upon you, and I wish the same as I always will. You are welcome to continue talking to me in dms.

I just needed to post my response here because I want more opportunities not less for the community, and I plan to achieve that.
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who the fuck cares lol
just l2p and do well in multiple cups to make poffs
 
I wanted to both echo Joker's point while also providing my own viewpoint on the topic of an 8 versus 16 playoff format.

Here's how I see it: Lets say after the sm and oras tours (the two most popular) I haven't gotten past the second round, the lack of playoff spots and the relatively low points I can gain from the other three gens in the tournament actually discourages me to signup for the rest of the tour. What is the point in playing the next three gens if I know the only way I can get into the main tour is by getting super far in them? I consider myself to be at least competent at all of the gens below oras, I at least know what's going on and know the most common sets, but I know that I can't win five-six series in a row in a dpp or adv tour especially if I happen to get matched up against one of the top players in the tier. So I just won't play them. And because of this the signups go down because other players who have the same view point as myself also don't signup and the number of points you can get drastically decrease making them relatively useless compared to sm or oras. As you go further down the tier list this problem multiplies as more people realize they have no chance of making the final tournament and just don't signup for the next cup.

Now there's two easy solutions I see to this problem, the only problem is that its too late to use one of them.

The first solution would be starting with adv so that the signups stay high for that tour and working our way up through the gens so that sm, the cup with the most points at stake, is last and therefore stays meaningful even though it is in the last spot. The other way you could do this is shuffling the gens around so that each cup is a surprise and therefore is more exciting to signup for although I think the first way makes much more sense.
Now, I know this isn't the way that other tiers do their classic tournaments, but we're not other tiers. 1v1 hasn't been around for nearly as long as OU or UU or NU and the interest in earlier gens isn't as high since they're basically fake since no one was playing adv or dpp 1v1 back when those tiers were current. This format highlights the older generations and might bring new players who otherwise wouldn't have played them which will help develop their metagames further.
I know its too late to do this but in the future it might be something to look into.

The second solution would be expanding the playoff bracket to either 12 or 16. This means that players who have accumulated 3-7 points in other cups still have a reason to play the older generations as they don't have to win it all to get into the the playoffs. This also makes the last two tours more exciting as many players will be in the "playoff hunt." I don't know if y'all watch sports but the last couple weeks of every season are the most exciting part and have the most viewership because people love to see who is going to make it into the last couple open spots. If the playoff positions are mostly filled then interest in dpp and adv will wane in both players and spectators as the tours largely won't matter.
I think 12 is the better choice as it benefits the players with a large amount points the most urging people who have won previous cups to keep playing in later cups even when they are sure they have made playoffs while also allowing for a larger group of people to still believe they have a chance to make it into playoffs.

I kinda stepped away for a moment and lost my train of thought so I'm just going to leave it there for now
 
blondesasukeuchiha said:
Here's how I see it: Lets say after the sm and oras tours (the two most popular) I haven't gotten past the second round, the lack of playoff spots and the relatively low points I can gain from the other three gens in the tournament actually discourages me to signup for the rest of the tour. What is the point in playing the next three gens if I know the only way I can get into the main tour is by getting super far in them?
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if you lost r2 in sm and oras cup and you can't get super far in the other gens why should you be in playoffs anyway?
blondesasukeuchiha said:
I consider myself to be at least competent at all of the gens below oras, I at least know what's going on and know the most common sets, but I know that I can't win five-six series in a row in a dpp or adv tour especially if I happen to get matched up against one of the top players in the tier. So I just won't play them.
Click to expand...
"I won't play if I don't have a very high chance of going to playoffs by winning almost nothing" is pretty hilarious and a super minority opinion, majority will still sign up.
blondesasukeuchiha said:
And because of this the signups go down because other players who have the same view point as myself also don't signup and the number of points you can get drastically decrease making them relatively useless compared to sm or oras. As you go further down the tier list this problem multiplies as more people realize they have no chance of making the final tournament and just don't signup for the next cup.
Click to expand...
most ppl play for fun so the majority would still sign up and play
blondesasukeuchiha said:
The first solution would be starting with adv so that the signups stay high for that tour and working our way up through the gens so that sm, the cup with the most points at stake, is last and therefore stays meaningful even though it is in the last spot.
Click to expand...
ok so 1. the issue isnt "first cup hype" its "who the fuck cares about this tier" 2. if the smaller tour starts before the larger one then they will finish weeks apart which is bad overall
blondesasukeuchiha said:
The second solution would be expanding the playoff bracket to either 12 or 16. This means that players who have accumulated 3-7 points in other cups still have a reason to play the older generations as they don't have to win it all to get into the the playoffs. This also makes the last two tours more exciting as many players will be in the "playoff hunt." I don't know if y'all watch sports but the last couple weeks of every season are the most exciting part and have the most viewership because people love to see who is going to make it into the last couple open spots. If the playoff positions are mostly filled then interest in dpp and adv will wane in both players and spectators as the tours largely won't matter.
I think 12 is the better choice as it benefits the players with a large amount points the most urging people who have won previous cups to keep playing in later cups even when they are sure they have made playoffs while also allowing for a larger group of people to still believe they have a chance to make it into playoffs.
Click to expand...
i dont rly care about 8 / 12 / 16 spots personally all 3 options are probably fine and I've already touched on the issue with the cup order thing, anything that isnt double elim is swanky :jynx: mubs out
 
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