Metagame 1v1 Metagame Discussion

Alakazam

He Laughed.
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Dynamax Update Post

Hey guys, so after letting the metagame of 1v1 sit for a while, Dynamax has seem to have proven itself to be a potentially hazardous game mechanic. This was predicted before the release of Sword and Shield, but it would not have been right to remove a Generation-defining game mechanic essentially pre-launch before it had the chance to be experienced within the community and the chance for a metagame to develop around it, and to see if it truly would negatively affect 1v1.

However, time has been allotted, and several things are abundantly clear concerning the effect Dynamax has in a competitive sense.

For one, Dynamaxing as a strategy is always going to inherently force 50/50s. A winning strategy in a 1v1 Dynamax metagame is to attempt to stall out Dynamax turns through the use of Substitute, which almost every Pokemon can learn, and will inevitably lead to 50/50s concerning whether or not to use Substitute on an opposing Dynamax, or to use an attack to break a Substitute, and you have almost no reason not to when coverage options and setup moves are almost entirely useless, considering Dynamax gives you access to 100-150 base power moves with guaranteed secondary effects like weather and terrain. Depending on the bulk of the Pokemon in a matchup, this will involve anywhere from one or more 50/50s in almost every matchup, which severely takes away from the ability to play the game in competitive sense and actually turns the metagame into the RPS that everyone thinks we are, instead of the teambuilding- and lead predicting- metagame we focus on.

Another part of Dynamaxing that is problematic is the creative drain in setbuilding brought on by Dynamaxing. A Pokemon that cannot use Dynamaxing effectively cannot win in this metagame, and while dynamaxing is often touted as a great equalizer, in actuality only makes the already good Pokemon factorially better than the mediocre ones who could stand to benefit. Why bother changing your team around when you can run the same 3 busted Pokemon who can all use dynamax better than everyone else, and can even win in the team ditto if they pull off a 50/50, which all the other teams will be relying on anyway? And unlike how banning a Pokemon could be done in previous gens to remove specific strategies that only they could utilize, Dynamaxing will allow the next best Pokemon with a similar niche to utilize the exact same, not similar but worse, strategies as the banned Pokemon, because the Dynamax moves will remain the same.

These combination of factors, alongside numerous other reasons, have led the council to action. However, before a decision is made, we would like the community to speak up on how the process should be done. Would people prefer a potential Quickban of Dynamax, because the community at large thinks this issue is far too obviously unfit for 1v1 and does not even require further thought, or would the community prefer a Suspect Test of Dynamax, which would be more democratic in the process and the usual way 1v1 prefers to do things, but could take longer, would be harder to narrow down the exact reqs needed (due to the still-developing ladder), and could potentially lead to dynamax staying if the 60% supermajority isn't made?

Right now, we are looking for community feedback on what everyone would be most comfortable for. This isn't a voting process - our decision will be based on the clear and concise arguments for or against a quickban, or for or against a suspect test, or against either option. We don't want one liners, if you can't be bothered to actually vocalize why you have certain values or opinions, then they must not be important enough for you. Please make your opinions known, we will be keeping track.
 
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Personally I think dynamax should be suspected in that I feel like without it the metagame would feel fairly dry (not a lot going for it to be new and interesting).
 

Jamez

Find some balance and truth
is a Tiering Contributor
imo we quickban this, I hate playing the ladder like this, dynamax takes place in 95 percent of 1v1 games it seems and really takes the skill out of the game and makes u predict the sub or protect or whatever move you use to stall out dynamax moves, then strike back with your own. imo dynamax isn’t fun at all and takes 0 skill and just 50/50s 95 percent of games not a fun way to play
Edit: I’m bad at typing these
 
I would go for a quickban for Dynamax. Dynamax has shown for the past 2 weeks that it's extremely unhealthy and centralising to the tier. Several threats have come and gone but none are as obviously deterrent to 1v1's progress as Dynamax/Gigantamax seems to be. This could be just me, but I haven't seen a serious gen81v1 team (or indeed a serious match) which can withstand most of the given scenarios of most used Pokemon. (I suspect) This is because the sheer amount of offensive possibilities that Dynamax provides makes it hard to prepare a team for an offensive threat.

Why not suspect test?

I feel like these two weeks have taught us much about the possibilities of Dynamax, and while it might not have displayed a clear picture of how a meta would shift(think: RegiSerp rising and falling in gen7), it has given us a broad picture about the whole thing. Though it would seem good in the long run, a suspect test could allow the meta to "adapt" to this abomination which shouldn't have been allowed in 1v1, and the "trend" I talked about in the previous sentence does not seem to offer a stability to the whole game in a way that previous gens has (or at least it didn't in my head).


Note: While a Dynamax-less meta would initially sound stale, I'm pretty sure that in the long run, no one would regret banning Dynamax, some the meta would evolve into something better than what a Dynamax 1v1 would be.
 
I think Dynamax should be quickbanned and then potentially suspect tested at a later date.

I've already shared my reasoning in a previous post for why Dynamax should be banned in the first place along with agreeing with all of Lost Heros' arguments so instead of another explanation merely summarizing those two posts I'm going to explain why quickban is the correct option. We need to see what a metagame without Dynamax looks like before we can decide if it really should be included into the meta. The problem with Dynamax is that in the current state of the meta its not fundamentally broken because Dynamax Pokemon check each other and therefore make nothing that broken; instead it puts a strangle-hold on all strategies and play-styles except for itself, making it greatly over-centralizing (that was a lot of compound words in one sentence). If we spent a week or two developing a new meta without Dynamax we could then see if we could somehow fit it into the new meta without limiting creativity and versatility, two staples of 1v1.

I'm just going to be honest here, a 1v1 metagame with Dynamax is not enjoyable and if it continues to remain unbanned I see myself losing interest in 1v1 as a whole very quicky
Also did no one above me read the part about no one-liners or are y'all just dumb
 

Cantius

I COULD BE BANNED!
It doesn't look like we have to wait for the higher metagames. 6v6 is the central focus of the current discussion at Policy Review, and it does us no favors to find that we've wasted our time waiting because Dynamax is only banned in 6v6. Little Cup (Quote with the flashy LC Leader tag :psyduck:), a 6v6 format, has already banned Dynamax independently. 1v1 has major differences from 6v6, so we have to decide on a Dynamax ban by ourselves.

To the anti-Dynamax camp: do you really want a suspect test? Do you want to suffer for a few more weeks under Dynamax? Do you want your opinions to fade, Dynamax to grow old, because everyone will need to play a million games with Dynamax to set reqs? How about a suspect ladder without Dynamax? Do you want to judge on the basis of skill right now, or see a metagame without Dynamax? Similarly with the current No Dynamax Tour, or a Dynamax quickban with an unban suspect.

Quickbanning is going to be like Gen 7 Z-Detect. Everyone wants to ban Z-Detect; the council decides to quickban – poof! a backlash, and the council is forced to retract the quickban. Then a suspect is concluded soon and we decide to ban it anyway. At least it was "democratic."

It's now or never. We ban Dynamax early, or we don't do it at all. Let's not wait for a few months – by then, everyone will grow accustomed to Dynamax. Don't like Dynamax? Well, too bad – you might never gain the momentum needed to ban it again – because a central mechanic of the game, however broken, will be imprinted in the minds of the new while the old leave the community.

Finally, the Smogon tiering system is based on skill, which is a subjective metric. Pro-ban and anti-ban arguments, therefore, are not objective. We do not aim to maximize metagame health in every way possible; rather, we seek to selectively ban elements of the metagame that reduce the skill required "too much" – whatever that means, but we can decide. "Dynamax makes the game no fun," "Pro-Dynamax players don't have any arguments," are irrelevant – how does Dynamax actually impact the interaction between skill and the game's outcome? This is why we're buried under the centralization arguments that ignore the fact that broken checks broken while we forget to actually examine skill.
 

Boat

real life sailing apparatus
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I feel that Dynamax (and Gigantamax) should be quick banned. Making the metagame revolve around 50/50s is super degenerate, and isn't fun to play. We have given it a pretty fair chance I feel, and it's proven to be pretty unhealthy. Dynamax is already being discussed for a ban in formats where it has more counterplay. I said in the video with Bandit that I feel Dynamax should see a suspect, but since seeing it in action I have changed my mind and think it should just be gone. If a suspect is deemed appropriate, I think a quickban still makes sense, with the suspect being to unban it, given how impactful it will be on the generation to come. If the number of people who want a Dynamax meta is really that significant, then they should be able to reach the 60% require to free it. Putting the burden of 60% majority on getting rid of a hugely busted mechanic would be a bad way to handle this imo.
 

Alakazam

He Laughed.
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It doesn't look like we have to wait for the higher metagames. 6v6 is the central focus of the current discussion at Policy Review, and it does us no favors to find that we've wasted our time waiting because Dynamax is only banned in 6v6. Little Cup (Quote with the flashy LC Leader tag :psyduck:), a 6v6 format, has already banned Dynamax independently. 1v1 has major differences from 6v6, so we have to decide on a Dynamax ban by ourselves.

To the anti-Dynamax camp: do you really want a suspect test? Do you want to suffer for a few more weeks under Dynamax? Do you want your opinions to fade, Dynamax to grow old, because everyone will need to play a million games with Dynamax to set reqs? How about a suspect ladder without Dynamax? Do you want to judge on the basis of skill right now, or see a metagame without Dynamax? Similarly with the current No Dynamax Tour, or a Dynamax quickban with an unban suspect.

Quickbanning is going to be like Gen 7 Z-Detect. Everyone wants to ban Z-Detect; the council decides to quickban – poof! a backlash, and the council is forced to retract the quickban. Then a suspect is concluded soon and we decide to ban it anyway. At least it was "democratic."

It's now or never. We ban Dynamax early, or we don't do it at all. Let's not wait for a few months – by then, everyone will grow accustomed to Dynamax. Don't like Dynamax? Well, too bad – you might never gain the momentum needed to ban it again – because a central mechanic of the game, however broken, will be imprinted in the minds of the new while the old leave the community.

Finally, the Smogon tiering system is based on skill, which is a subjective metric. Pro-ban and anti-ban arguments, therefore, are not objective. We do not aim to maximize metagame health in every way possible; rather, we seek to selectively ban elements of the metagame that reduce the skill required "too much" – whatever that means, but we can decide. "Dynamax makes the game no fun," "Pro-Dynamax players don't have any arguments," are irrelevant – how does Dynamax actually impact the interaction between skill and the game's outcome?
... What exactly are you arguing for? Do you want the quickban or the suspect test, you seem to be against both but want Dynamax gone
 

Le Creme Brule

riding the wave to the land of dreams
is a Pre-Contributor
Quickban Dynamax my god.
1. It has no place in a balanced or diverse meta, shutting down creative potential and making the strong pokemon exponentially stronger.
2. It’s a 50/50 fest, too many matchups are determined by subbing on dynamax, its incredibly unhealthy. It turns the meta into a series of truly pointless 50/50s that turn common sense matchups into ridiculous shitshows.
3. It’s over centralizing. Dynamax is the strategy of Swish 1v1. I’ve called it “turbo cancer”, and my feeling on this has only grown. Every pokemon is forced to use dynamax by A. The massive boost to power and B. The lack of item requirement. Dynamax is almost impossible not to use, and the only real way to beat a dynamax user is another dynamax user, Making it fit one of smogon’s ban policies, where if one player uses it and another does not, it gives the player who uses it a drastically unfair advantage.
 
Opinion: Quickban

Let's be real, the meta is super bland right now, I doubt new fun tech will be discovered soon, and at the end of the day, isn't that what 1v1's always been?
Nobody wants Dynamaxing in official tours, it hinders the use of creative sets and creates a metagame with about 20 usable mons (maybe like, a bit more).

Better quickban it now, instead of pulling the dead horse that is dynamaxing for a few more weeks.
 

Cantius

I COULD BE BANNED!
OK Alakazam. I support a quickban. It'll receive a backlash, but the council should ignore it. All that will happen is the same result from a suspect.
There is no way at all that Dynamax will survive the suspect. Will we suspect for the sake of "democratic progress?" Will we follow a flimsy guideline for the sake of following a flimsy guideline? Well, I have a little statement:

If an issue has no way of being accepted by a certain process, there's no need for it to be run through the entire process.
 

ayedan

5 am in Toronto
It doesn't look like we have to wait for the higher metagames. 6v6 is the central focus of the current discussion at Policy Review, and it does us no favors to find that we've wasted our time waiting because Dynamax is only banned in 6v6. Little Cup (Quote with the flashy LC Leader tag :psyduck:), a 6v6 format, has already banned Dynamax independently. 1v1 has major differences from 6v6, so we have to decide on a Dynamax ban by ourselves.

To the anti-Dynamax camp: do you really want a suspect test? Do you want to suffer for a few more weeks under Dynamax? Do you want your opinions to fade, Dynamax to grow old, because everyone will need to play a million games with Dynamax to set reqs? How about a suspect ladder without Dynamax? Do you want to judge on the basis of skill right now, or see a metagame without Dynamax? Similarly with the current No Dynamax Tour, or a Dynamax quickban with an unban suspect.

Quickbanning is going to be like Gen 7 Z-Detect. Everyone wants to ban Z-Detect; the council decides to quickban – poof! a backlash, and the council is forced to retract the quickban. Then a suspect is concluded soon and we decide to ban it anyway. At least it was "democratic."

It's now or never. We ban Dynamax early, or we don't do it at all. Let's not wait for a few months – by then, everyone will grow accustomed to Dynamax. Don't like Dynamax? Well, too bad – you might never gain the momentum needed to ban it again – because a central mechanic of the game, however broken, will be imprinted in the minds of the new while the old leave the community.

Finally, the Smogon tiering system is based on skill, which is a subjective metric. Pro-ban and anti-ban arguments, therefore, are not objective. We do not aim to maximize metagame health in every way possible; rather, we seek to selectively ban elements of the metagame that reduce the skill required "too much" – whatever that means, but we can decide. "Dynamax makes the game no fun," "Pro-Dynamax players don't have any arguments," are irrelevant – how does Dynamax actually impact the interaction between skill and the game's outcome? This is why we're buried under the centralization arguments that ignore the fact that broken checks broken while we forget to actually examine skill.
I’m not gonna write a story about this but, you aren’t ever going to have an entire community agree with one decision, even when it seems that way. From Deo-D’s ban to Dragonite staying legal, you never saw everyone agreeing with any of those decisions. Sure, you will want to go with the decision that most people advocate for but you aren’t ever going to get that 100%, receiving backlash as the result.

oh, and to go with this, I agree with quickbanning Dynamax. This mechanic is way worse than Z move and overall is very unhealthy. Nearly every, if not every mon uses it and it overall comes down to who has what coverage move.
 
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I vote >quickban< personally.

Its super overcentralizing. There is no place for dynamax in 1v1. Even though Gen 8 hasn't been out for very long, the same pokemon and same strategies with minimal variation show up on ladder due to dynamax as a mechanic being completely busted in 1v1. It was fun to experiment with at first but I think its very clear that dynamax was created for 6v6/doubles battles rather than a format where you can't switch pokemon. While there is argument that dynamax is unhealthy in regular battles as well, at least there is more to each match than just dynamaxing and clicking your move as it only takes up 3 turns. You can play around dyna a bit more by switching around mons to tank hits, entry hazards, focus sash, status, or just dynamaxing as an answer. Sure, some mons become unstoppable sweepers but I would confidently say that there is far more counterplay compared to 1v1.

In 1v1 you are severely limited in your options to counterplay it, even knowing that the opponent is going to dynamax every time. Previous strategies revolving around setup and stall are suboptimal when the opponent can just dynamax and boost their stats/hit you for insane damage with overtuned moves. I thought sub/petaya etc. sets to stall out the turns was genius at first but after playing 1v1 for a while, one realises that this is really the only option apart from picking an advantageous type matchup and dynamaxing yourself. I tried running some sleep mons to see how they do in this meta but even then, once the opponent goes to sleep I just dynamax in return so that I can tank 2nd turn wakes/use more powerful moves. Its just dyna dyna dyna bro.

I see a lot of potential for gen 8 1v1 with many diverse items and new moves being added, as well as a bunch of fun new mons to try, that simply can't be used right now due to dynamax. It limits creativity and, in my opinion, skill expression as well. Other mechanics such as z-moves and megas were far healthier.
 
I would personally prefer a quickban of dynamax, as it is extremely constricting and unhealthy for the metagame as a whole..

Dynamax is generally ridiculously overcentralizing. Since Max Moves provide their own perks in addition to high Base Power such as setting weather, terrain, raising one of your own stats, or lowering a stat of an opponent, status moves (with the possible exception of Substitute) are rendered nearly useless, nearly invalidating most stall Pokemon as well as most other Pokemon who simply rely on stat boosts. This serves as a chokehold against creative teambuilding and generally makes the meta more bland, less balanced, and less fun. Additionally, Dynamax has essentially no opportunity cost, making it a significant disadvantage to not use it, which is in essence equivalent to one of Smogon's ban policies. Finally, the community's overwhelming consensus to ban Dynamax means that a suspect test would most likely be essentially a formality in which two weeks that could be used to develop a healthy meta are spent getting reqs with Dynamax still legal on ladder.

I know most, if not all of these points have already been stated in some form by other users, but I agree with those other users. Dynamax is a fundamentally unhealthy element in the 1v1 metagame that should be removed as soon as possible, and thus should be quickbanned.

P. S. Sorry for the wall of text
 

Alakazam

He Laughed.
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Oh yeah I should add my thoughts. We need to definitely quickban this.

My opinions Dynamax in 1v1 have been a roller coaster; initially when i first saw it, I immediately thought that the mechanic would be broken beyond belief and turn the entire metagame into chaos. In my mind, i was imagining Gigantimax Mega Gyarados, every one of its stats boosted by dynamax as well, firing off moves with 200 base power, destroying everything in its path unless they dynamaxed in return. Then I learned about dexit happening, and the actual game mechanics of dynamax, and I became slightly optimistic, on the notion that it wasn't the hellscape i imagined. Gen 8 came out, and SWSH honestly didn't seem that bad at first, dynamax and all. But, very quickly, it become very, very apparent that Gen 8 1v1 was incredibly one dimensional and fake. Dynamax is the meta, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, until you realize the Dynamax is also the anti-meta. There's no healthy alternative strategy available to most mons, which kills diversity.

Then we have the issue of the lack of prediction necessary. The bulk allotted in dynamax vs without + the power of your moves makes it so you have an immense advantage if you can be in Dynamax against a non-dynamax opponent, no matter the type matchup or defensive stats. So, people will use sub to wait out Dynamax. But, if you can afford to set up on their sub, or break it, without dynamaxing, then suddenly you're in the advantage, but if you are about to sub but predict they're gonna take advantage of that with an attack or setup, then you can dynamax and attack them immediately, but if you predict that they're going to attack immediately then you can use your own Sub because everyone runs sub because coverage means nothing when you're dropping 100+ BP STAB moves with guaranteed side effects and the cycle goes on and on. Its not a mechanic that rewards skill, which is especially significant considering the length of our games - the random outcome of 1 play can potentially decide a game

Something I also don't see being brought up is that we can already tell for certain that Dynamax affects competition - the GXE in our ladder is super underdeveloped. Part of that can be contributed to the start of a new gen, but not when looking at other tiers like OU and Ubers show that their GXE are already at the levels they were at in Gen 7, whereas we are all stuck in mid 60s-low 70s, compared to the healthy distribution between high 60s-high 70s that it was like for 1v1 in Gen 7. Why is that? Because dynamax is actively harming skillful gameplay in the tier.

TLDR: Quickban, we're better without it.
 
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Alakazam

He Laughed.
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OK Alakazam. I support a quickban. It'll receive a backlash, but the council should ignore it. All that will happen is the same result from a suspect.
There is no way at all that Dynamax will survive the suspect. Will we suspect for the sake of "democratic progress?" Will we follow a flimsy guideline for the sake of following a flimsy guideline? Well, I have a little statement:

If an issue has no way of being accepted by a certain process, there's no need for it to be run through the entire process.
The backlash received with Z-Detect was primarily because A) There was literally no communication from that council and B) The community was split on the issue. Obviously none of that applies here, I think we'll be mostly good.

And in general, any decision will get backlash, no matter what.
 

ACII

formerly AltCauseImInsecure
Quickban.

Dynamax makes the meta very set choice reliant,by that I mean that almost all the matchups are not exactly 100% or even 70% safe.In this way,considering that items aren't really the winning factor for many mons, it is possible to run a lot of different items just to gain some advantage on a specific pokemon and win that matchup.
My second argument is that,as I have been saying from the start of the generation and that I thought would apply to all tiers,dynamax shifts the meta by making the players find the best overall dynamax abusers, force everyone to find checks of these abusers and find checks of these checks.1v1wise that makes the meta very stagnant, boring and little skill requiring
 
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Boat

real life sailing apparatus
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One thing I want to bring up is how the schedule of a suspect would affect meta development. If we started a two week suspect today we would have a measly nine days to develop the entire no-dyna meta before Winter Seasonal. With the acknowledgment that a suspect is guaranteed to end up with a ban verdict (see above, so many people want it gone and people will fight hard for suspect reqs to make sure it happens), a suspect test is a huge time waster that will drastically affect the development of the meta during our first major tournament.
 

Elo Bandit

I COULD BE BANDIT!
is a Pre-Contributor
Quickban

Dynamax defines every match in 1v1 in a negative way. The endless 50/50s (do I max t1 or wait for opponent?), the over-reliance on Substitute spam, the lack of depth in move/ability/item combos, everything is overwritten by Dynamax.

Good Dynamax play beats good team preview play - fast/prankster Sub to stall turns and KO back with the absurd advantage Dyna provides
against any Pokemon not in Dynamax. This undermines the basic structure of Team Preview focused 1v1 by replacing clear-cut wins and losses with hazy "I guess I might win if I just dyna the correct turn" matchups.

The variety within a Dynamax metagame is severely limited by Max Moves. Pokemon's wide range of attacks effectively is reduced to 18 Max Moves with set +1 / -1 or weather bonuses. There is no more use of Encore, Disable, Priority, Calm Mind, Taunt, Trick Room, Skill Swap, Choice Items, Trick, it's just click Dyna and win the "18 moves game" or stall out opposing Dynamax at all costs.

Double HP means matches take twice as long. 1-3 turns average becomes 2-6 turns minimum, and the 2-turn matches are almost always because someone failed to Dynamax turn 1 against a Dynamaxed opponent. This leads to a noticeably slower and more boring metagame for people used to rapid-fire, team-preview based meta where a win or loss is determined almost as soon as Pokemon are selected.

I can feel my soul slowly withering away as I force myself into match after match of this nonsense. 1v1 should Quickban Dynamax for a more fun, diverse, and interesting metagame.
 
A suspect test is kind of impossible with how new the ladder is I think, Quickban should be done
Max Guard is stupid and should commit die, prevents use of status moves, so there are 20* viable moves in the game (18 types, Max Guard, and Shell Smash)
*does not include gigantamax moves
On a side note, I as soon as Dynamax is banned Imprison Mew should be banned asap
It gets Imprison Transform this generation, with no z moves to break it, and with dexit coming in to lower the general power level of everything
You can either outspeed its max invest 100 speed and 2hko through berry or ohko it with its 256 EVs to invest in bulk and 100/100/100 bulk
Or you can outspeed and Taunt/Sub (just hope they don't have mental herb or seismic toss)
It also gets Taunt for beating your Taunt/Shell Smash

Seriously though, this thing is actually stupid
252+ Atk Choice Band Mold Breaker Haxorus Outrage vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 354-417 (87.6 - 103.2%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

It's not that there's no counterplay, it's just very difficult (and technically it can do mew's movepool things and c team you)
 
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Arai

is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
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What's there to enjoy in this meta? Literally no game I've played feels enjoyable or fun at all and laddering is more something I do for the sake of laddering rather than having fun. It doesn't help that all Dynamax brings are the same boring moves, and that there's really no strategy involved in it other than super effective coverage. Oh yea and status moves being killed by it means using status moves often has to be done in your base form which usually just gets you killed. I don't see a reason not to ban it other than "new mechanic" but even then, it's just not enjoyable at all and not something a format like this should have. Not to mention that Dynamax is also your way of beating other Dynamax in most matchups unless you create specific sets to beat specific mons but who actually wants to do that? imo we really need this gone.

Shorter answer: zzzz ban this boring shit
 
Quickban

I was originally going to try and sway opinions to keep this, but after playing with it for long enough and seeing its effects, I've concluded this thing has got to go. I agree with a lot of the thoughts being voiced in the thread and I think it's clear how unhealthy this is. The insane amount of 50/50s, the overcentralization, the lack of deep counterplay and status use, the list goes on. For 1v1, it's just not healthy. Everything converges to bulky offense.

That aside, the only real question in this thread is suspect vs quickban. Apprehensive council members will be quick to point towards the z detect fiasco as a clear reason against this, but there are a number of reasons why this is different: 1. Dynamax is broken, not uncompetitive 2. The community is more untied on the dynamax question 3. It's not coming out of nowhere. The reason that I urge a quickban is metagame development. Many experienced players are refraining from playing, laddering, or even building in a metagame they know will be completely upended fairly soon. In addition to this, banning dynamax would allow for competitive play to open up faster without the unease of the inevitable suspect looming. A suspect would end up in a ban, but there would be no point. There wouldn't be much backlash from a quickban and it would accomplish the same task much quicker. We could suspect an unban later, but for now get it out of here!
 

D2TheW

CAP 28 Playtest Winner
Quickban. I agree with all of the arguments above. However I also believe the issue will only get worse as the meta develops. It's only a matter of time before the best abusers are isolated and once that happens the meta might be dead already. There simply isn't any creativity in the meta right now and there won't be if we don't get rid of this shit. The highly optimized ev spreads that this meta specializes in are just kind of pointless right now. I don't see any reason to suspect this either. Everyone seems to agree that this has to go. A suspect is a waste of time, time better spent developing the meta in a positive way.
 

LRXC

formerly LittleRunnerXC
The reason that I urge a quickban is metagame development. Many experienced players are refraining from playing, laddering, or even building in a metagame they know will be completely upended fairly soon. In addition to this, banning dynamax would allow for competitive play to open up faster without the unease of the inevitable suspect looming. A suspect would end up in a ban, but there would be no point.
This is a great point by Synonimous and captures my uneasieness building in this metagame, when I feel like dynamax is going to be quickbanned soon anyway. The metagame is stalling because of this. So not only do I think we need to quickban because dynamax is inherently broken, but the ladder is suffering, and its sequestering players from 1v1, leaving many players such as myself in an awkward freefall, with 1v1 Classic and VG's Non Dynamax tour being the only things keeping me afloat in the sea of 1v1 interest.
 

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