1v1 1v1 Summer Seasonal IV - Round 11 (Losers)

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rumia

everlasting red
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beautiful art made by the equally beautiful cleffa, check out their art thread!

Welcome to the 1v1 Summer Seasonal!​

Tournament Rules:
  • General tournament rules and regulations can be found here.
  • The banlist for this tournament is the same as the SWSH 1v1 ladder on the Smogon University server of Pokemon Showdown, and can be found here.
  • Best of five, double elimination.
  • If metagame changes occur during the middle of a round, they will take effect in the subsequent round.
  • Battles must take place on main server or smogtours.
  • REPLAYS ARE REQUIRED.
  • Do not make baseless activity posts; get in contact with your opponent and report missed times / scheduling issues only.
pqs  vs  Mishlef
XanderUrBoi  vs  Joker 1v1

Deadline is Sunday, September 26th at 11:59 PM EDT (GMT-4). Deadline for extended matches is Wednesday, September 22nd at 11:59 PM EDT (GMT-4).
 
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Boat

fuck nintendo
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Re : Mishlef

Situation : Mishlef brought one Pokemon to the last game of his series vs pqs. This is pretty blatant gamethrowing by nearly any reasonable interpretation of the rule. Two factors make this case difficult to ignore compared to past instances you might be familiar with. Firstly, this is quite late in bracket and would certainly qualify as a high stakes match. Secondly, it's pretty difficult to argue that someone tried to throw a set that they won; throwing a game five, on the other hand, makes your intentions pretty clear.

Result : Mishlef is banned from 1v1 tournaments for three months. Many people have brought up several instances of similar behavior going unpunished in the past. While it is true that throwing in early rounds and throwing game five of very late rounds are treated with different levels of strictness, that distinction is one that wasn't made clear and wouldn't be reasonable for Mishlef to know. Mishlef will not be tourbanned and the infraction will be removed. However, let this serve as a notice that you need to bring real teams; this was a throw and we will enforce it in the future.
 
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Re : Mishlef

Situation : Mishlef brought one Pokemon to the last game of his series vs pqs. This is pretty blatant gamethrowing by nearly any reasonable interpretation of the rule. Two factors make this case difficult to ignore compared to past instances you might be familiar with. Firstly, this is quite late in bracket and would certainly qualify as a high stakes match. Secondly, it's pretty difficult to argue that someone tried to throw a set that they won; throwing a game five, on the other hand, makes your intentions pretty clear.

Result : Mishlef is banned from 1v1 tournaments for three months.
mishlef brought mono babiri aromatisse with the intention of luring steel types. this is not the same as bringing one pokemon for memes or to throw. this lure was brought on g5 because it would have the biggest effect on pqs’s mental, not because mishlef intended to throw the series
 
I would also like to point out that his team decision does make some sense when you look at the current metagame trends. DFS is clearly the best archetype in 1v1 right now so it was a smart assumption that pqs would bring such a team in an elimination setting. This aromatisse deals with such teams decently as it beats most dragons and has a very unclear match-up versus fairies for the opponent. Steels are by far the safest pick for the opponent in this match-up and Mishelf took advantage of that with Babiri Berry. While it didnt fully work and is not the best idea, the idea of luring steel types is clearly there and this was not an intentional throw imo.
 
dont have much time to write this but this ban should be reversed. Mishlef should be infracted if anything but not tourbanned.
A few relevant details:
  • What Mishlef did wasn't intentionally trying to lose, which is the definition of throwing on smogon dot com. he had a clear intent to win and idea behind what he had brought (mono babiri berry aromatisse which lured zone and aggron). Potato and torterrax already discussed this point
  • bringing one mon isn't intrinsically throwing. 1v1 is a psychological metagame, and bringing one mon game 5 definitely weighs on an opponents mind. in this case, Mishlef's aromatisse would have lost to many mons that aromatisse is supposed to beat, or at least have good chances to beat, including pult and fini. its arguable whether ur opponent bringing 1 mon or 3 mons that lose to a mon that ur luring (ex: magnezone) would make ur opponent think more, but at this stage of seasonal i think most people can recognize 3 mons that lose to zone contain a zone lure, but maybe pqs is just bad
  • Mishlef is an idiot for doing this and the team he brought was a shitty gamble that didn't work out and was suboptimal, but bringing a shit team thats suboptimal really should not be considered throwing under the current definition. if bringing suboptimal teams is throwing, then we should ban every person that has lost to charizard in oras, genesect when it was allowed, especially if it was g5 of a deciding game of pl finals, tapu fini/regidrago in current ss, etc. (yes being 3-0'd by top tier mons is suboptimal, even if your opponent doesn't bring it!)
  • an issue here with the above is there is no line drawn. nowhere does it say that you have to bring 3 pokemon, or 2 even or you will be tourbanned. perhaps if it was explicitly written people would not do it as users like LuckyPiper (who had a reasonably deep run in the first ss seasonal) and Xander have don. this ban should be reversed and this explicitly added if this is the case.
free mishlef
 

airfare

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OUPL Champion
Situation : Mishlef brought one Pokemon to the last game of his series vs pqs. This is pretty blatant gamethrowing by nearly any reasonable interpretation of the rule.
Throwing: Losing on purpose to benefit your opponent is strictly forbidden, and will lead to the person throwing being Tournament Banned.

Bringing 1 mon isn't "losing on purpose". The intent here was to restrict his opponent's decision-making by only bringing Aromatisse and force him into a predictable line of play (and lure + beat Steel-types, which didn't work here specifically because of pqs bringing Celesteela, contradicting his previous Steel usage). While this wasn't a very wise gamble, especially not in game 5 of a later round, Mishlef clearly attempted to use this strategy to beat pqs' usage with the intent to win.


 
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Re : Mishlef

Situation : Mishlef brought one Pokemon to the last game of his series vs pqs. This is pretty blatant gamethrowing by nearly any reasonable interpretation of the rule. Two factors make this case difficult to ignore compared to past instances you might be familiar with. Firstly, this is quite late in bracket and would certainly qualify as a high stakes match. Secondly, it's pretty difficult to argue that someone tried to throw a set that they won; throwing a game five, on the other hand, makes your intentions pretty clear.

Result : Mishlef is banned from 1v1 tournaments for three months.
Good morning Tournament Head Boat (phiwings99), today we will be doing some analysis:

1.
First off, for the sake of argument, let's look up the official definition for throwing given by Oxford Dictionary.
If you look up "throwing definition" on Google and look at the 7th definition (the one gaming-related) we see the following:
Capture.PNG


2.
Throwing as a regulation for Tournaments and Competitions is always properly defined because it varies depending on what game or competition it is being regulated for, so let's see what the official definition for throwing is in the Smogon Tournament Rules and General Guidelines.
Capture.PNG

This matches the definition given by Oxford Dictionary but also adds in the equation the opinion of the Tournament Directors, given that they are the ones who will be judging on a case by case scenario

3.
With that premise in mind, let's see what the Tournament Director and more importantly the Tour Head that is handling this situation thinks about throwing
Capture.PNG

While this message doesn't specifically describe boats?'s opinion on the definition of throwing, it certainly shows that he mentions the definiton of "sequence of plays that can only be described as throwing" as reasonable and applicatively favorable.


4.
Here are some messages from the culprit at fault. While the word of the culprit itself is not enough to exempt himself it gives us the perspective of his reasoning for said sequence of plays
Capture.PNG

We'll route back to this reasoning later


5.
Capture.PNG

Capture.PNG

Capture.PNG

While I am not a big fan of taking screenshots out of context, I would like to emphasize how useful and important precedent is generally, and specifically for said TD's "discretion"
Now then, let's look at some precedent:

These, Three, Replays, of Eriey using a single pokemon in a Seasonal
These, Three, Games, where Joker 1v1 and Rosa brought Magikarp to a Premier League match (even higher stakes than a seasonal) and got off scot free.
This instance of Tol bringing only two pokemon to a 1v1PL series and promptly being 3-0d by Regieleki. "But he did that accidentally!" Did he? are you sure you can trust the words of a man that definitely didn't bring a bad team intentionally to boost his friends' crow crumbs record? If we believe Tol, wouldn't we also believe Mishlef when he said he wasn't throwing?
Whatever the fuck this was (still mad).
This Xander game doing literally THE SAME THING but WORSE since he not only revealed set but his set wasnt even a lure for anything and it had like one move and not being punished because it was only round 1
There are quite certainly more cases of this kind of propaganda fuckery with "throwing"-related moments but I think this assortment of replays makes for a fair amount of precedent (none of these cases were punished)

CONCLUSION
1. The biggest thing that concerns me is that this happened in a game 5 situation, which means Mishlef had been actively trying to win up until that point and was one game away from doing so, if he were to have intentionally wanted to lose the game to benefit pqs by making him go further in the bracket he definitely wouldn't have done so in a game 5 situation
2. The legitimacy of the strategy is to be taken into account and should not be subjectively judged by a single individual. Whether you agree or disagree with its efficacy, 1v1 is a game of strategy and wits made to take advantage of these kinds of situations, things like your team losing to a certain Pokemon on purpose because your opponent will think it was actually a bait, bringing Pokemon that are UR because your opponent will have no idea what they do. Mishlef believed he wasnt gonna be able to bring a normal team and outpick pqs in a standard 1v1 match, so he decide to use a gimmicky method to win, which would've won had pqs had a different team structure.
3. Making different tournament decisions based on how late in the round the seasonal game happens is a terrible idea, since every single game is gonna have an outcome on the end of seasonal and will ruin the tournament experience in the same way. This basically tells me that it is allowed for someone to get boosted to a higher round by people throwing against him unless its a round high enough for the TD to care enough to make a call? It sounds almost as ridiculous as it actually is.

4. Deciding to tournament ban a player because of a strategy that is "objectively unoptimal" is extremely flawed because it enables punishments to players that simply play bad. I have seen a fair share of teams/sets/plays that were strictly and objectively BAD like the famous Arctic losing Mawile vs Diancie by clicking Metal Burst 5 times in a row in a Worlc Cup match. This is a "sequence of plays that one could only feasible describe as throwing", but that is because the player in question is just unfathomably fucking bad, not because he wanted to lose on purpose. The key component behind these instances is intent. Did the player decide to lose intentionally to favor one of his friends or did he lose the game because he simply made poor decisions or didnt know any better? This is an incredibly important point that was failed to be taken into account and was actually dismissed by one of the very few people that had any say in this decision.

The game 5 of the Round 11 of Seasonal series is not a "sequence of plays that can only be described as throwing" strictly because it is extremely easy to describe that series of actions as something different than throwing: an unoptimal strategy to win by capitalizing completely on the builder instead of the picking variable, an attempt to cheese a victory from an opponent that is better than yourself, a gamble on the opponents's mental state and clearmindedness to try and win the game in an unconventional manner. All of these definitions are valid and each one of them has an absolute end goal: to win the game.

This game did not constitute throwing in any way, shape or form and the decision to tourban Mishlef should absolutely be reverted.
 

Infectrix

Banned deucer.
honestly the craziest part of this whole situation is not that the head td made a stupid decision that made no sense, that shit happens. instead it’s the expectation that because he didn’t bring 3 mons he must be tourbanned. that is ridiculous. there’s a crazy thing called playing mons for fun. in an individual g5 where the only person who would be fucked would be mishlef he should be able to bring whatever the fuck he wants unless it’s a 0 wincon mon like magikarp. obv mishlef is getting unbanned but if this ban were to theoretically stand then there would need to be guidelines in the 1v1 forum saying that YOU NEED TO TRYHARD IN EVERY TOURNAMENT GAME EVER and a council of 2 sweaty smogon mods will decide if you’re not trying hard enough. the mental gymnastics that went into this decision is actually crazy.

-stunna2009
 

XSTATIC COLD

Banned deucer.
As for me, the ban is justified.

1.the rules are clear : "bring 3 pokemon".

2. By bringing one mon, he just minimized his chances of winning and so, maximized the chanced of pqs.

3. At this stage of the tour, people bring teams which are able to cover all the meta. Therefore , able to cover a aromatisse. So pqs just had to click the mon which beat aromatisse, despite the surprise of the babiri, which is completly useless. (we saw it, he brought a steel and still won)

4. This is a disrespect for the 1v1 since the goal is to have a thinking about "what mon should i go between 3". So yeah for me it is troll and he "gave" pqs win.

5. The impact is more significant cause it was game 5, so decisive game. How you can bring one mon in a decisive game in a 11th round of seasonal..

6. This is a disrespect too for the opponent, cause if he won with one mon, it would be humiliating for pqs.

Conclusion: bringing one mon in an official tour (especially in 11th round) is just a troll and not fair cause, as i said, he minimized his chances of winning and pqs just had to click to right mon.
Even if babiri is specific, it beats nearly nothing of steel meta mons (doesnt beat metagross, celesteela, heatran air balloon or specs eruption)
Maybe he would beat alolan dugtrio?

and even, he lost automatically vs poison mons (nidoking vileplume venusaur naganadel) so what was the interest?
If he brought two other mons (even bad) able to counter poison or steel, it would be ok, but in this case, it's a gift.

Finally, this shit discredibles the tour of pqs cause maybe he would have lost if mishlef would bring 3 mons.
So yeah, it's a disrespect for pqs and for the 1v1.

I'm happy that he is banned. These new players who think they are better than all by bringing 1 mon, have not their place in the game.
 
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