1v1 - The Old Repository

[Landon]

Now that this mon has Intimidate, it's time to rank it.

Incineroar: Unranked -> C or C+

VR

S Rank

Gyarados-Mega L
You don't win, sorry.

Tapu Koko L
Nope.

A+ Rank

Charizard-Mega-X W
You live two Outrages after Bulk Up.

Dragonite L
Maybe you can win with some offset?

Magearna W
Doesn't appreciate a Flare Blitz.

Metagross-Mega W
Malicious Moondead.

Mimikyu L
This thing is OP.

A Rank

Charizard-Mega-Y W
Should be fine except for some really bulky, yet offensive sets.

Landorus-Therian L
Good try.

Snorlax W-L
Can win in some cases, can lose in some cases.

Tapu Lele L
Z-Reflect grabs you and throws you off a cliff.

Zygarde-Complete L
Lol.

A- Rank

Aegislash W
Shadow Ball, Flash Cannon, or -1 Sacred Sword vs. Malicious Moonsault. You be the judge.

Genesect W
This things loves fire. You live a specs Bug Buzz too! (Depending on the set you use)

Lopunny-Mega L
Don't worry he'll miss.

Magnezone W-L
You need spdef bulk or fast Fake Out.

Mawile-Mega W
Bulk Up into Flare Blitz.

Porygon-Z L
You need a lot of spdef for scarf, while the now common Z set simply wins.

Slowbro-Mega W
Darkest Lariat ignore the Iron Defense.

Venusaur-Mega L
Too bulky + Thick Fat.

B+ Rank

Aggron-Mega W
Can sometimes lose to Taunt Aggron.

Blaziken-Mega L
Fighting vs. Dark doesn't turn out so good.

Donphan W
Will-O-Wisp for the boys, or Bulk Up works better.

Gardevoir-Mega W-L
If bulky or semi bulky, you win. If offensive, Hyper Beam OHKOS.

Golem W
Same case as Donphan.

Greninja L
Little does Greninja know, Hydro Cannon only has 90% accuracy. ~~EZ DUB~~

Jumpluff L
Sleep Powder miss?

Naganadel L
You're dead.

Pinsir-Mega W
Intimidate is good.

Primarina L
Dead before you can spell d-e-a-d.

Tapu Fini L
You cannot touch it.

B Rank

Altaria-Mega L
Not a good type advantage at the least.

Chansey W-L
If for what ever reason they're not running Charm then you win.

Ferrothorn W
Flare Blitz = Dead.

Garchomp L
:(

Heatran W-L
No Earth Power and you're gucci.

Heracross-Mega W-L
This matchup depends on if Heracross is bulky, offensive, or fast. A fast Incineroar can beat a bulky set. Meaning the bulky set is slow.

Kartana W
Again Intimidate is good for those Fightinium Kartana's.

Meloetta L
You are OHKOed by Specs sadly.

Mew W
Don't think i've seen any special Fightinium Mew's around.

Necrozma W
Even dead with Prism Armor.

Sableye-Mega W-L
Bulk Up in its face if no Taunt. If Taunt, Bulk Up as it has to mega, then use Darkest Lariat into Malicious Moonsault.

Sawk L
You can probably win if it runs Thunder Punch, Ice Punch, Poison Jab, and Fire Punch.

Tyranitar-Mega L
You can't touch this.

B- Rank

Blastoise-Mega L
You don't live nor kill.

Blissey L
All good Blissey run Z Charm. I'm not including specs.

Buzzwole L
Lives Flare Blitz and can kill you.

Celesteela W
It can't hurt you.

Crustle L
You can win if it goes for Z move first. If it Shell Smashes you lose. After playing it, it should always SS anyways.

Diancie-Mega L
It bops you. You can't touch it.

Durant W-L
Durant has a better roll to kill, but Incineroar can still live and it misses a lot, unless you're Passion.

Gengar-Mega W-L
It can make you go to sleep and win. If not then you bop it.

Hoopa-Unbound W-L
Specs Focus Blast bops Incineroar, otherwise you kill.

Kommo-o L
You can't hit it, it's just boosts it's stats and wins.

Swampert-Mega W-L
Fast Incineroar can beat it.

Togekiss L
Air Slash will win before you can kill and Z Charm wins too.

Whimsicott W
Prankster doesn't affect Dark types. Flare Blitz to victory.

C+ Rank

Archeops L
He kills you.

Avalugg W
Fake out or Will-O-Wisp into Bulk Up, then Blitz. If he Curses, then Darkest Lariat.

Camerupt-Mega L
You lose.

Carracosta L
If they SS you have a roll not in your favor.

Excadrill W-L
You beat scarf, but lose to groundium.

Gallade-Mega L
He wins.

Latios W
You live specs and kill.

Lucario-Mega L
Sorry but Adaptability OP.

Marowak-Alola W
Malicious Moonsault.

Medicham-Mega L
PURE POWER

Pheromosa L
137 offensive stats.

Porygon2 L
It's too bulky.

Scizor-Mega W
Bug-Steel isn't a good matchup first Fire.

Tapu Bulu W
Fire>Grass.

Terrakion L
He OHKOs you and you can't touch.

Umbreon L
Z Charm.

Victini W
Victini will be nonexistent after Incineroar is done.

Volcarona W-L
If Buginium Z + Swamr, you lose. If Firium you win.

C Rank

Blacephalon W
He can't touch you and Malicious Moonsault literally obliterates him.

Deoxys-S W-L
If stall you win, if specs Focus Miss or Fightinium Z you lose.

Entei L
Rockium Z plus Stone Edge kills.

Garchomp-Mega L
Garchomp-M is a brute.

Haxorus W
You live and kill with Malicious Moonsault.

Hydreigon L
You can't touch him.

Infernape L
Again can't touch.

Keldeo L
Fighting + Water stab...

Landorus L
You get OHKOed.

Latias-Mega W
Don't actually know if Charm wins, so i'll say Incineroar wins.

Nihilego L
Specs or Rockium kills.

Ninetales-Alola W
Flare Blitz kills and if Ninetales subs, Darkest Lariat breaks it so you don't take Flare Blitz recoil. Z Moonblast only does 68% max with no spd.

Pidgeot-Mega L
Feather Dance is nasty.

Relicanth L
Yawn set wins.

Thundurus-Therian L
Z kills.

C- Rank

Hitmonlee L
It kills.

Manectric-Mega W
Thunderbolt is a 3HKO, while Malicious Moonsault + an attack kills.

Pyukumuku L
This little thing is OP.

Quagsire L
This is as well.

Rhyperior W-L
You beat AV sets using Will-O-Wisp + Bulk Up x2. Max attack, adamant, banded wins.

Serperior W
It can't hurt you, while you Blitz its face.

Salazzle W
Malicious Moonsault kills and he can't.

Skarmory W
Will-O-Wisp will put a stop to it.

Stakataka W
Max attack banded Stakataka wins, but who uses that?

Suicune L
Suicune is underrated tbh.

D Rank

Abomasnow-Mega W
Flare Blitz does the trick.

Alakazam-Mega W
Malicious Moonsault is overkill.

Aron W
A good ol' Fake Out or Will-O-Wisp puts an end to this poor guy.

Azumarill L
Typing matchup sucks for Incineroar.

Barbaracle W-L
Rockium only has 50% chance to kill.

Clefable L
Unaware wins or stall, which is all this runs.

Dusclops W
You do too much damage and he can't Will-O-Wisp you.

Sceptile W
You kill.

Slaking W
He can't kill.

Smeargle L
You're slower lol.

Stunfisk L
If Yawn(which is only set) you lose.

Type: Null W-L
You beat stall Null as Darkest Lariat ignores boosts. Offensive Null wins.

Vivillon L
Sleep Powder miss?

Volcanion L
Rip.

Sets

Incineroar @ Incinium Z
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 120 HP / 176 Atk / 36 SpD / 176 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Darkest Lariat
- Bulk Up
- Flare Blitz

Incineroar @ Incinium Z
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 128 Atk / 20 Def / 108 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Darkest Lariat
- Flare Blitz
- Bulk Up

Incineroar @ Incinium Z
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 236 Atk / 20 Def
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Darkest Lariat
- Flare Blitz
- Bulk Up

The 1st set allows you to beat even fast sturdy mons like Donphan or Golem. The 2nd set is a little different as it allows you to beat Magnezone, and has more attack. That is all at the expense of losing to fast sturdy like Donphan or Golem. The 3rd set and loses to Magnezone, Genesect, and fast Donphan and Golem, yet has a lot more attacking power. The more attacking power benefits in the case of bulky Metagross-Mega. Overall, this mon beats many Pokemon on the VR and now should be ranked, especially because it has the ability making it good: Intimidate.

 

[Nalei]

Now that this mon has Intimidate, it's time to rank it.
View attachment 107648
Incineroar: Unranked -> C or C+

VR

S Rank

Gyarados-Mega L
You don't win, sorry.

Tapu Koko L
Nope.

A+ Rank

Charizard-Mega-X W
You live two Outrages after Bulk Up.

Dragonite L
Maybe you can win with some offset?

Magearna W
Doesn't appreciate a Flare Blitz.

Metagross-Mega W
Malicious Moondead.

Mimikyu L
This thing is OP.

A Rank

Charizard-Mega-Y W
Should be fine except for some really bulky, yet offensive sets.

Landorus-Therian L
Good try.

Snorlax W-L
Can win in some cases, can lose in some cases.

Tapu Lele L
Z-Reflect grabs you and throws you off a cliff.

Zygarde-Complete L
Lol.

A- Rank

Aegislash W
Shadow Ball, Flash Cannon, or -1 Sacred Sword vs. Malicious Moonsault. You be the judge.

Genesect W
This things loves fire. You live a specs Bug Buzz too! (Depending on the set you use)

Lopunny-Mega L
Don't worry he'll miss.

Magnezone W-L
You need spdef bulk or fast Fake Out.

Mawile-Mega W
Bulk Up into Flare Blitz.

Porygon-Z L
You need a lot of spdef for scarf, while the now common Z set simply wins.

Slowbro-Mega W
Darkest Lariat ignore the Iron Defense.

Venusaur-Mega L
Too bulky + Thick Fat.

B+ Rank

Aggron-Mega W
Can sometimes lose to Taunt Aggron.

Blaziken-Mega L
Fighting vs. Dark doesn't turn out so good.

Donphan W
Will-O-Wisp for the boys, or Bulk Up works better.

Gardevoir-Mega W-L
If bulky or semi bulky, you win. If offensive, Hyper Beam OHKOS.

Golem W
Same case as Donphan.

Greninja L
Little does Greninja know, Hydro Cannon only has 90% accuracy. ~~EZ DUB~~

Jumpluff L
Sleep Powder miss?

Naganadel L
You're dead.

Pinsir-Mega W
Intimidate is good.

Primarina L
Dead before you can spell d-e-a-d.

Tapu Fini L
You cannot touch it.

B Rank

Altaria-Mega L
Not a good type advantage at the least.

Chansey W-L
If for what ever reason they're not running Charm then you win.

Ferrothorn W
Flare Blitz = Dead.

Garchomp L
:(

Heatran W-L
No Earth Power and you're gucci.

Heracross-Mega W-L
This matchup depends on if Heracross is bulky, offensive, or fast. A fast Incineroar can beat a bulky set. Meaning the bulky set is slow.

Kartana W
Again Intimidate is good for those Fightinium Kartana's.

Meloetta L
You are OHKOed by Specs sadly.

Mew W
Don't think i've seen any special Fightinium Mew's around.

Necrozma W
Even dead with Prism Armor.

Sableye-Mega W-L
Bulk Up in its face if no Taunt. If Taunt, Bulk Up as it has to mega, then use Darkest Lariat into Malicious Moonsault.

Sawk L
You can probably win if it runs Thunder Punch, Ice Punch, Poison Jab, and Fire Punch.

Tyranitar-Mega L
You can't touch this.

B- Rank

Blastoise-Mega L
You don't live nor kill.

Blissey L
All good Blissey run Z Charm. I'm not including specs.

Buzzwole L
Lives Flare Blitz and can kill you.

Celesteela W
It can't hurt you.

Crustle L
You can win if it goes for Z move first. If it Shell Smashes you lose. After playing it, it should always SS anyways.

Diancie-Mega L
It bops you. You can't touch it.

Durant W-L
Durant has a better roll to kill, but Incineroar can still live and it misses a lot, unless you're Passion.

Gengar-Mega W-L
It can make you go to sleep and win. If not then you bop it.

Hoopa-Unbound W-L
Specs Focus Blast bops Incineroar, otherwise you kill.

Kommo-o L
You can't hit it, it's just boosts it's stats and wins.

Swampert-Mega W-L
Fast Incineroar can beat it.

Togekiss L
Air Slash will win before you can kill and Z Charm wins too.

Whimsicott W
Prankster doesn't affect Dark types. Flare Blitz to victory.

C+ Rank

Archeops L
He kills you.

Avalugg W
Fake out or Will-O-Wisp into Bulk Up, then Blitz. If he Curses, then Darkest Lariat.

Camerupt-Mega L
You lose.

Carracosta L
If they SS you have a roll not in your favor.

Excadrill W-L
You beat scarf, but lose to groundium.

Gallade-Mega L
He wins.

Latios W
You live specs and kill.

Lucario-Mega L
Sorry but Adaptability OP.

Marowak-Alola W
Malicious Moonsault.

Medicham-Mega L
PURE POWER

Pheromosa L
137 offensive stats.

Porygon2 L
It's too bulky.

Scizor-Mega W
Bug-Steel isn't a good matchup first Fire.

Tapu Bulu W
Fire>Grass.

Terrakion L
He OHKOs you and you can't touch.

Umbreon L
Z Charm.

Victini W
Victini will be nonexistent after Incineroar is done.

Volcarona W-L
If Buginium Z + Swamr, you lose. If Firium you win.

C Rank

Blacephalon W
He can't touch you and Malicious Moonsault literally obliterates him.

Deoxys-S W-L
If stall you win, if specs Focus Miss or Fightinium Z you lose.

Entei L
Rockium Z plus Stone Edge kills.

Garchomp-Mega L
Garchomp-M is a brute.

Haxorus W
You live and kill with Malicious Moonsault.

Hydreigon L
You can't touch him.

Infernape L
Again can't touch.

Keldeo L
Fighting + Water stab...

Landorus L
You get OHKOed.

Latias-Mega W
Don't actually know if Charm wins, so i'll say Incineroar wins.

Nihilego L
Specs or Rockium kills.

Ninetales-Alola W
Flare Blitz kills and if Ninetales subs, Darkest Lariat breaks it so you don't take Flare Blitz recoil. Z Moonblast only does 68% max with no spd.

Pidgeot-Mega L
Feather Dance is nasty.

Relicanth L
Yawn set wins.

Thundurus-Therian L
Z kills.

C- Rank

Hitmonlee L
It kills.

Manectric-Mega W
Thunderbolt is a 3HKO, while Malicious Moonsault + an attack kills.

Pyukumuku L
This little thing is OP.

Quagsire L
This is as well.

Rhyperior W-L
You beat AV sets using Will-O-Wisp + Bulk Up x2. Max attack, adamant, banded wins.

Serperior W
It can't hurt you, while you Blitz its face.

Salazzle W
Malicious Moonsault kills and he can't.

Skarmory W
Will-O-Wisp will put a stop to it.

Stakataka W
Max attack banded Stakataka wins, but who uses that?

Suicune L
Suicune is underrated tbh.

D Rank

Abomasnow-Mega W
Flare Blitz does the trick.

Alakazam-Mega W
Malicious Moonsault is overkill.

Aron W
A good ol' Fake Out or Will-O-Wisp puts an end to this poor guy.

Azumarill L
Typing matchup sucks for Incineroar.

Barbaracle W-L
Rockium only has 50% chance to kill.

Clefable L
Unaware wins or stall, which is all this runs.

Dusclops W
You do too much damage and he can't Will-O-Wisp you.

Sceptile W
You kill.

Slaking W
He can't kill.

Smeargle L
You're slower lol.

Stunfisk L
If Yawn(which is only set) you lose.

Type: Null W-L
You beat stall Null as Darkest Lariat ignores boosts. Offensive Null wins.

Vivillon L
Sleep Powder miss?

Volcanion L
Rip.

Sets

Incineroar @ Incinium Z
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 120 HP / 176 Atk / 36 SpD / 176 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Darkest Lariat
- Bulk Up
- Flare Blitz

Incineroar @ Incinium Z
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 128 Atk / 20 Def / 108 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Darkest Lariat
- Flare Blitz
- Bulk Up

Incineroar @ Incinium Z
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 236 Atk / 20 Def
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Darkest Lariat
- Flare Blitz
- Bulk Up

The 1st set allows you to beat even fast sturdy mons like Donphan or Golem. The 2nd set is a little different as it allows you to beat Magnezone, and has more attack. That is all at the expense of losing to fast sturdy like Donphan or Golem. The 3rd set and loses to Magnezone, Genesect, and fast Donphan and Golem, yet has a lot more attacking power. The more attacking power benefits in the case of bulky Metagross-Mega. Overall, this mon beats many Pokemon on the VR and now should be ranked, especially because it has the ability making it good: Intimidate.

I agree with ranking Incineroar, but I don't think it's C or C+. Loses to 5/7 of the best mons in the meta. A little sort of related insight into how I look at mons: Categories:
Meta: Objectively amazing Pokemon with high usage - S to B+ range - Ex: Tapu Koko
Off-Meta: Good Pokemon with low usage B to C+ish - Ex: Mega Altaria
Anti-Meta: Pokemon that are good because they beat meta Pokemon - C and down, mostly - Ex: Barbaracle
Niche Picks: Pokemon that are not good, but have distinguishable niches - D and Unranked - Ex: Vigoroth
Bad Pokemon: Pokemon with little or no reason to ever use - Unranked/DNU - Ex: Comfey
Meta beats off-meta, off-meta beats anti-meta, anti-meta beats meta as a general trend. Niche picks generally beat a mash-up of everything with a smaller number of total wins, making them significantly more difficult to build with. I'd place Incineroar in the niche category. It's not objectively good, ruling out meta or off-meta, and given that it loses to 5/7 of the best mons in the meta, it's not anti-meta either. As such, counter-nomination: Incineroar to D. Also, on those sets: First is set is good. Here's a fancier spread for the second set: 248 HP / 100 Atk / 28 Def / 132 SpD Third set is bad, I do not recommend.

 

[Landon]

I agree with ranking Incineroar, but I don't think it's C or C+. Loses to 5/7 of the best mons in the meta. A little sort of related insight into how I look at mons: Categories:
Meta: Objectively amazing Pokemon with high usage - S to B+ range - Ex: Tapu Koko
Off-Meta: Good Pokemon with low usage B to C+ish - Ex: Mega Altaria
Anti-Meta: Pokemon that are good because they beat meta Pokemon - C and down, mostly - Ex: Barbaracle
Niche Picks: Pokemon that are not good, but have distinguishable niches - D and Unranked - Ex: Vigoroth
Bad Pokemon: Pokemon with little or no reason to ever use - Unranked/DNU - Ex: Comfey
Meta beats off-meta, off-meta beats anti-meta, anti-meta beats meta as a general trend. Niche picks generally beat a mash-up of everything with a smaller number of total wins, making them significantly more difficult to build with. I'd place Incineroar in the niche category. It's not objectively good, ruling out meta or off-meta, and given that it loses to 5/7 of the best mons in the meta, it's not anti-meta either. As such, counter-nomination: Incineroar to D. Also, on those sets: First is set is good. Here's a fancier spread for the second set: 248 HP / 100 Atk / 28 Def / 132 SpD Third set is bad, I do not recommend.

I guess I can agree that I ranked this mon a little high. After review, I really didn't know where to put it. I just figured C or C+ would be fine compared to the other mons in those ranks and what Incineroar beats. I still think it should be ranked somewhere in the C Rank, like C-. I just think it's so good to be able to bait in Donphan, Golem, ect and beat them. The ability to beat Zards and Gross is just too sweet too. The 3rd set that was put I can agree it's pretty bad ,but it's better vs mons like Gross. I do get why you would say it's bad Mace, so unless someone really hates super bulky Gross then I also probably wouldn't recommend using it either. I just thought I would still include it.

 

[Ginger Princess]

Hey guys, I'm not joking:

Breloom: Unranked--> C-/C

So, Breloom at first glance seems outclassed both offensively and stall-wise to mons like Jumpluff and basically every other grass and fighting type in the meta. Although it has access to Spore, the only perfect accuracy sleep move in the game, it's unfortunate speed tier has sunk it to obscurity. However, I believe I have found a set that mitigates it's speed while at the same time giving it an edge over every other leech seed staller, once it gets going:

Breloom @ Darkinium Z
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 248 HP / 16 Def / 244 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Leech Seed
- Substitute
- Snatch
- Spore

The most important thing to note here is the move Snatch. Snatch is an obscure dark type move that takes any setup or recovery move used by your opponent, and give it to you instead. This means that your opponent cannot boost their stats in order to try to outspeed you/ohko you, or they cannot heal themselves once they've gotten low enough through leech seed. That by itself would not be enough to improve it's viability, but the effect of Z-Snatch is what completes it. Z Snatch doubles speed, and has +4 priority, so it cannot be faked out. After turn one, Breloom will outspeed a majority of the metagame with 520 speed, and be able to hit them with a 100% accuracy sleep move, followed up by leech seed/sub. It's all the perks of a Prankster spore user without any of the costs, and one less weakness that traditional leech seed stallers will face thanks to snatch.

Idk. Food for thought. Laddered to 1600 on an alt with this mon, a friend of mine got rank 2, 3, and 4 with 3 separate alts, seems pretty fire

(Oh and 244 Timid lets you outspeed base 80 speed mons that run 252 speed evs but adamant/modest, like dragonite, hoopa, stuff like that)

 

[Landon]

Hey guys, I'm not joking:
View attachment 107845
Breloom: Unranked--> C-/C

So, Breloom at first glance seems outclassed both offensively and stall-wise to mons like Jumpluff and basically every other grass and fighting type in the meta. Although it has access to Spore, the only perfect accuracy sleep move in the game, it's unfortunate speed tier has sunk it to obscurity. However, I believe I have found a set that mitigates it's speed while at the same time giving it an edge over every other leech seed staller, once it gets going:

Breloom @ Darkinium Z
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 248 HP / 16 Def / 244 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Leech Seed
- Substitute
- Snatch
- Spore

The most important thing to note here is the move Snatch. Snatch is an obscure dark type move that takes any setup or recovery move used by your opponent, and give it to you instead. This means that your opponent cannot boost their stats in order to try to outspeed you/ohko you, or they cannot heal themselves once they've gotten low enough through leech seed. That by itself would not be enough to improve it's viability, but the effect of Z-Snatch is what completes it. Z Snatch doubles speed, and has +4 priority, so it cannot be faked out. After turn one, Breloom will outspeed a majority of the metagame with 520 speed, and be able to hit them with a 100% accuracy sleep move, followed up by leech seed/sub. It's all the perks of a Prankster spore user without any of the costs, and one less weakness that traditional leech seed stallers will face thanks to snatch.

Idk. Food for thought. Laddered to 1600 on an alt with this mon, a friend of mine got rank 2, 3, and 4 with 3 separate alts, seems pretty fire

(Oh and 244 Timid lets you outspeed base 80 speed mons that run 252 speed evs but adamant/modest, like dragonite, hoopa, stuff like that)

Ayy, I was waiting for you to put this BEHEMOTH on here. This thing is pretty heat. It can also beat many decent tier mons like non-Sub Zygarde, Chansey/Blissey, Slowbro-M, Lopunny-M(can lose if they don't Fake Out. You can also sacrifice speed to live Giga though), Snorlax, P2, Magearna, Dragonite, all sturdy users, Aegislash, Bulky Gross, non-Flyinium Lando, Mawile-M, Aggron, Gyarados-M, Primarina, Ttar-M, Blasitoise-M, Celesteela, ect. So as you can see, it beats quite a few mons. Of course that isn't all it can beat, just some more notible ones. In basics, it beats any mon that can't OHKO it, Taunt it, Rest stall it or is a grass type. Like TDA said, one of my boys hit 2, 3, and 4 using this Breloom and I personally have gotten decently high with it. That shows it can be dominant in the tier. I think it's mainly so good because it has the surprise factor to it. Not many opponents are expecting it to be using Z-Snatch and then Leech Seed stalling them to death. One drawback to the set is it is a little difficult to build around. I would probably nominate it to D or possibly C-

 

[PenguinKnees]

Time to nom a mon I've been using for a while that I believe is under used and underrated. I propose that Milotic go from Unranked: -> C-/C

VR matchups

S Rank

Gyarados-Mega
With burns its doable but otherwise, l.

Tapu Koko
lol no. L

A+ Rank

Charizard-Mega-X
depends but usually l.

Dragonite
depends but usually l.

Magearna
w vs a good amount of sets with mirror coat.

Metagross-Mega
pretty reliable w.

mimikyu
depends on the opponent its a lot of 50/50s

A Rank

Charizard-Mega-Y
free w.

Landorus-Therian
reliable w.

Snorlax
depends but in testing usually w.

Tapu Lele
another mon where it depends on the set.
but unless they cm untill max, they lose. w

Zygarde-Complete
D e p e n d s. but usually an l

A- Rank

Aegislash
w.

Genesect
w.

Lopunny-Mega
w.

Magnezone
l.

Mawile-Mega
w.

Porygon-Z
w.

Slowbro-Mega
w.

Venusaur-Mega
l.

B+ Rank

Aggron-Mega
w.

Blaziken
w.

Donphan
w.

Gardevoir-Mega
w.

Golem
w.

Greninja
w.

Jumpluff
lol I wish.

Naganadel
depends but usually l.

Pinsir-Mega
w. But its a bit finicky and I have lost.

Primarina
w.

Tapu Fini
w.


B Rank

Altaria-Mega
w.

Chansey
w.

Ferrothorn
l.

Garchomp
w/l

Heatran
w.

Heracross-Mega
l.

Kartana
l.

Meloetta
w.

Mew
(fuck this thing) l.

Necrozma
w/l very set dependent

Sableye-Mega
w.

Sawk
w.

Tyranitar-Mega
w.

B- Rank

Blastoise-Mega
w.

Blissey
w.

Buzzwole
w.

Celesteela
l.

Crustle
l.

Diancie-Mega
w.

Durant
w.

Gengar-Mega
haven't played it enough to say

Hoopa-Unbound
haven't played it enough to say.

Kommo-o
l.

Swampert-Mega

Togekiss
l.

Whimsicott
w.

Looking at milotics vr matchups, the general trend is that it loses the top 5, and then can beat a good amount of lower ranked mons. A common theme with milotic is that the matchup depends on either your, or the opponents set. While most of the time milotic is able to stall or wall out the opposing mons, it can depend on whether the opponent has sub and if you can for toxic or scald turn 1. However, to make certain matchups more reliable, I have included a few sets to counter certain specific mons.

Sets

Death Metal (Milotic) @ Flame Orb
Ability: Marvel Scale
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Recover
- Mirror Coat
- Scald
- Toxic
This is the standard set I use. Scald and recover allows you to beat a good amount of physical mons, mirror coat with milotics absurd spdef allows you to beat special scarfers [genesect, pz, lele (even though that set is terrible) etc], and toxic is there for fat mons like chansey, mimikyu, and blissey. There's no real reason to change the evs here as nothing else really helps. (If anyone has any suggestions as to what im missing though I'd be glad for any help)

secrets (Milotic) @ Normalium Z
Ability: Competitive
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Def
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Confide
- Scald/mirror coat
- Toxic
- Recover
This is basically the above set but for special mons. Z confide allows you to beat mons like necrozma, magearna, and lele. This set is also very solid and is a reliable special wall for those in need of one.
Lol koko (Milotic) @ Wacan Berry
Ability: Marvel Scale
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Confide
- Mirror Coat
- Recover
- Scald
Honestly, don't use this. It's just bad. However, I included this set for those who just don't like koko and to prove how absurdly tanky milotic is.

Milotic is by no means a top 10 mon. It's susceptibility to nukes and the nature of how it's used lends its self to hax and taunt definitely hurts its cause. However, I believe that milotic has enough strengths and beats enough mons in the meta to warrant being ranked.

 

[Nalei]

Time to nom a mon I've been using for a while that I believe is under used and underrated. I propose that Milotic go from Unranked: -> C-/C

VR matchups

S Rank

Gyarados-Mega
With burns its doable but otherwise, l.

Tapu Koko
lol no. L

A+ Rank

Charizard-Mega-X
depends but usually l.

Dragonite
depends but usually l.

Magearna
w vs a good amount of sets with mirror coat.

Metagross-Mega
pretty reliable w.

mimikyu
depends on the opponent its a lot of 50/50s

A Rank

Charizard-Mega-Y
free w.

Landorus-Therian
reliable w.

Snorlax
depends but in testing usually w.

Tapu Lele
another mon where it depends on the set.
but unless they cm untill max, they lose. w

Zygarde-Complete
D e p e n d s. but usually an l

A- Rank

Aegislash
w.

Genesect
w.

Lopunny-Mega
w.

Magnezone
l.

Mawile-Mega
w.

Porygon-Z
w.

Slowbro-Mega
w.

Venusaur-Mega
l.

B+ Rank

Aggron-Mega
w.

Blaziken
w.

Donphan
w.

Gardevoir-Mega
w.

Golem
w.

Greninja
w.

Jumpluff
lol I wish.

Naganadel
depends but usually l.

Pinsir-Mega
w. But its a bit finicky and I have lost.

Primarina
w.

Tapu Fini
w.


B Rank

Altaria-Mega
w.

Chansey
w.

Ferrothorn
l.

Garchomp
w/l

Heatran
w.

Heracross-Mega
l.

Kartana
l.

Meloetta
w.

Mew
(fuck this thing) l.

Necrozma
w/l very set dependent

Sableye-Mega
w.

Sawk
w.

Tyranitar-Mega
w.

B- Rank

Blastoise-Mega
w.

Blissey
w.

Buzzwole
w.

Celesteela
l.

Crustle
l.

Diancie-Mega
w.

Durant
w.

Gengar-Mega
haven't played it enough to say

Hoopa-Unbound
haven't played it enough to say.

Kommo-o
l.

Swampert-Mega

Togekiss
l.

Whimsicott
w.

Looking at milotics vr matchups, the general trend is that it loses the top 5, and then can beat a good amount of lower ranked mons. A common theme with milotic is that the matchup depends on either your, or the opponents set. While most of the time milotic is able to stall or wall out the opposing mons, it can depend on whether the opponent has sub and if you can for toxic or scald turn 1. However, to make certain matchups more reliable, I have included a few sets to counter certain specific mons.

Sets

Death Metal (Milotic) @ Flame Orb
Ability: Marvel Scale
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Recover
- Mirror Coat
- Scald
- Toxic
This is the standard set I use. Scald and recover allows you to beat a good amount of physical mons, mirror coat with milotics absurd spdef allows you to beat special scarfers [genesect, pz, lele (even though that set is terrible) etc], and toxic is there for fat mons like chansey, mimikyu, and blissey. There's no real reason to change the evs here as nothing else really helps. (If anyone has any suggestions as to what im missing though I'd be glad for any help)

secrets (Milotic) @ Normalium Z
Ability: Competitive
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Def
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Confide
- Scald/mirror coat
- Toxic
- Recover
This is basically the above set but for special mons. Z confide allows you to beat mons like necrozma, magearna, and lele. This set is also very solid and is a reliable special wall for those in need of one.
Lol koko (Milotic) @ Wacan Berry
Ability: Marvel Scale
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Confide
- Mirror Coat
- Recover
- Scald
Honestly, don't use this. It's just bad. However, I included this set for those who just don't like koko and to prove how absurdly tanky milotic is.

Milotic is by no means a top 10 mon. It's susceptibility to nukes and the nature of how it's used lends its self to hax and taunt definitely hurts its cause. However, I believe that milotic has enough strengths and beats enough mons in the meta to warrant being ranked.

I agree with Milotic being ranked, but I don't think it deserves to be ranked on account of defensive merit. I feel like Suicune fills that niche much more effectively. Rather, I'd argue that it deserves to be ranked because of its offensive potential. Competitive is really cool, and you can beat Gyarados quite reliably with it. Access to Icy Wind also enables it to beat Zygarde. And of course, it can still utilize Mirror Coat to KO special attackers like Meloetta.

Set

Milotic @ Choice Specs
Ability: Competitive
EVs: 232 HP / 228 Def / 48 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hidden Power [Electric]
- Hydro Pump / Surf
- Icy Wind
- Mirror Coat

Breloom looks neat. Maybe I'll try it out some time. At a glance, I think it's D

 

[Chrispy Burns]

submitting sets for mons that haven't been explored fully:

Pelipper

Pelipper @ Waterium Z
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Hurricane
- Quick Attack
- Brine

Dodrio

Dodrio @ Salac Berry
Ability: Early Bird
EVs: 8 HP / 252 Atk / 248 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Endure
- Flail
- Rest/Taunt

Slaking

Slaking @ Leftovers
Ability: Truant
Happiness: 0
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Encore/ Bulk Up/ Amnesia
- Stomping Tantrum
- Double-Edge
- Rest

Stomping Tantrum will double after Truant so it's crucial not to run Giga Impact.

Regigigas

Regigigas @ Normalium Z
Ability: Slow Start
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Psych Up
- Thunder Punch
- Earthquake
- Giga Impact

Regirock

Regirock @ Electrium Z
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Thunder Wave/Zap Cannon
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Drain Punch

If you're running Zap Cannon, use Relaxed as the nature (-Spe +Def)

Mamoswine

Mamoswine @ Icium Z
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP / 164 Def / 92 Spe
Impish Nature
- Ice Shard
- Icicle Crash
- Earthquake
- Mist/ Icy wind/ Rock tomb

Z-Mist will heal your hp to full and prevent stat drops.

Muk-A

Muk-Alola @ Wiki Berry
Ability: Gluttony
EVs: 224 HP / 228 Def / 56 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dark Pulse
- Acid Spray
- Belch
- Acid Armor

Pride and joy here, Tanky enough to get the jump on a gigavolt havoc z-thunder koko once. It will lose as soon as they use charge round two but worth the shock. Lives a modest scarf pz's hyperbeam as well. Puts up a good fight against m-gyarados with acid armor and spray. very tanky, very fun.

Thundurus-I

Thundurus @ Choice Band
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Wild Charge
- Fly
- Superpower
- Fling

The set is as straight forward as it gets. The perks here are that fly is fantastic for demoralizing itchy fingered z-users and Defiant trashes on intimidate and rock tomb.

Rhyperior

Rhyperior @ Groundium Z/ Rockium Z
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 248 HP / 88 Atk / 172 Def
Adamant Nature
- Counter
- Rock Wrecker
- Earthquake
- Avalanche/ Focus Punch

A solid rock mon that can give gyarados a headache as well as just being a threat to physical mons.

and because everyone needs a laugh:

Regice

10/10 fresh (Regice) @ Choice Band
Ability: Clear Body
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Explosion
- Self-Destruct

great for getting back at smeargle and ditto.

 

[RunWithTheScizors]

submitting sets for mons that haven't been explored fully:

Pelipper

Pelipper @ Waterium Z
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 252 HP
- Hydro Pump
- Hurricane
- Quick Attack
- Brine

Dodrio

Dodrio @ Salac Berry
Ability: Early Bird
EVs: 8 HP / 252 Atk / 248 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Endure
- Flail
- Rest/Taunt

Slaking

Slaking @ Leftovers
Ability: Truant
Happiness: 0
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Encore/ Bulk Up/ Amnesia
- Stomping Tantrum
- Double-Edge
- Rest

Stomping Tantrum will double after Truant so it's crucial not to run Giga Impact.

Regigigas

Regigigas @ Normalium Z
Ability: Slow Start
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Psych Up
- Thunder Punch
- Earthquake
- Giga Impact

Regirock

Regirock @ Electrium Z
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Thunder Wave/Zap Cannon
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Drain Punch

If you're running Zap Cannon, use Relaxed as the nature (-Spe +Def)

Mamoswine

Mamoswine @ Icium Z
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP / 164 Def / 92 Spe
Impish Nature
- Ice Shard
- Icicle Crash
- Earthquake
- Mist/ Icy wind/ Rock tomb

Z-Mist will heal your hp to full and prevent stat drops.

Muk-A

Muk-Alola @ Wiki Berry
Ability: Gluttony
EVs: 224 HP / 228 Def / 56 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dark Pulse
- Acid Spray
- Belch
- Acid Armor

Pride and joy here, Tanky enough to get the jump on a gigavolt havoc z-thunder koko once. It will lose as soon as they use charge round two but worth the shock. Lives a modest scarf pz's hyperbeam as well. Puts up a good fight against m-gyarados with acid armor and spray. very tanky, very fun.

Thundurus-I

Thundurus @ Choice Band
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Wild Charge
- Fly
- Superpower
- Fling

The set is as straight forward as it gets. The perks here are that fly is fantastic for demoralizing itchy fingered z-users and Defiant trashes on intimidate and rock tomb.

Rhyperior

Rhyperior @ Groundium Z/ Rockium Z
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 248 HP / 88 Atk / 172 Def
Adamant Nature
- Counter
- Rock Wrecker
- Earthquake
- Avalanche/ Focus Punch

A solid rock mon that can give gyarados a headache as well as just being a threat to physical mons.

and because everyone needs a laugh:

Regice

10/10 fresh (Regice) @ Choice Band
Ability: Clear Body
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Explosion
- Self-Destruct

great for getting back at smeargle and ditto.

Decent sets, and Regice was funny! However, there's some errors:
-Pelliper only has HP EVs
-I don't think the simulator codes for doubled stomping tantrum, not just for Slaking but I might be wrong, you can lab this
-The Regice always loses because explosion kills you first
-No rest for Dodrio
-You should probably go physical Muk-A; its more reliable and the av set can check Fini pretty well

 

[pqs]

Decent sets, and Regice was funny! However, there's some errors:
-Pelliper only has HP EVs
-I don't think the simulator codes for doubled stomping tantrum, not just for Slaking but I might be wrong, you can lab this
-The Regice always loses because explosion kills you first
-No rest for Dodrio
-You should probably go physical Muk-A; its more reliable and the av set can check Fini pretty well

Ditto runs scarf so Ditto booms first
Smeargle will make you struggle and they'll go boom

 

[Chrispy Burns]

Decent sets, and Regice was funny! However, there's some errors:
-Pelliper only has HP EVs
-I don't think the simulator codes for doubled stomping tantrum, not just for Slaking but I might be wrong, you can lab this
-The Regice always loses because explosion kills you first
-No rest for Dodrio
-You should probably go physical Muk-A; its more reliable and the av set can check Fini pretty well

-Fixed Pelliper sorry that was embarassing
-I did lab this a little while back and stomping tantrum will double
-pqs already sniped this one
-rest is a fun option but I can see why not to run it
-This muk has amazing growth in damage per turn and worth testing more

 

[Yung Dramps]

Marshadow: Unranked ---> A, but leaning more towards A+

I know what you're all thinking. "Oh, Dramps, why are you nominating this for a rank when it has barely been out for 6 hours at this point, let alone nomming it this high?"

The thing with Marshadow compared to other unreleased Pokemon that got released into the meta (eg the unreleased megas) is that while they were brand new to the tier and needed some time to gauge their worth, Marshadow has already been with us in the past, and we already have a good idea of what works on it and what doesn't. Most of the sets I see people run right now are similar to, if not the same ones used back in SM.

And y'know what? Aside from losing its best item and some mons getting being able to counter it better, Marshadow is still incredible.

Marshadow @ Ghostium Z
Ability: Technician
EVs: 152 Atk / 104 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bulk Up
- Will-O-Wisp
- Spectral Thief
- Close Combat

See this set right here? This set invalidates nearly every viable physical attacker, including Mega Gyarados, Landorus-Therian, Zygarde-Complete, Mega Charizard X, Snorlax, Mega Lopunny, you get the idea. That leaves special attackers to counter this thing. The problem? Most of them get shat on by its STAB combo, such as Aegislash and Heatran. Others, like Naganadel or Greninja have to gamble against Marshadow's blistering 125 base speed. Some like Mega Charizard Y and Genesect do not possess the defenses to consistently survive its attacks. And yet others like Scarf Porygon-Z simply cannot KO it before Marsh knocks them out back (Casual reminder that this mon has nearly the same defenses as Zapdos).

In the few hours it has been out, Marshadow has already forced adaptations. Umbreon, for example, is now running extreme amounts of physical defense. Zen Headbutt Mega Metagross is becoming more common.

And here's another thing to keep in mind: This is just one set. Other sets I've seen include Z-Close Combat for Meloetta and Assault Vest for Magnezone and Tapu Koko.

idc if i get called out for being premature, overhyping it, etc, marshadow is still a beast and needs to be ranked accordingly.

 

[Nalei]

View attachment 108545
Marshadow: Unranked ---> A, but leaning more towards A+

I know what you're all thinking. "Oh, Dramps, why are you nominating this for a rank when it has barely been out for 6 hours at this point, let alone nomming it this high?"

The thing with Marshadow compared to other unreleased Pokemon that got released into the meta (eg the unreleased megas) is that while they were brand new to the tier and needed some time to gauge their worth, Marshadow has already been with us in the past, and we already have a good idea of what works on it and what doesn't. Most of the sets I see people run right now are similar to, if not the same ones used back in SM.

And y'know what? Aside from losing its best item and some mons getting being able to counter it better, Marshadow is still incredible.

Marshadow @ Ghostium Z
Ability: Technician
EVs: 152 Atk / 104 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bulk Up
- Will-O-Wisp
- Spectral Thief
- Close Combat

See this set right here? This set invalidates nearly every viable physical attacker, including Mega Gyarados, Landorus-Therian, Zygarde-Complete, Mega Charizard X, Snorlax, Mega Lopunny, you get the idea. That leaves special attackers to counter this thing. The problem? Most of them get shat on by its STAB combo, such as Aegislash and Heatran. Others, like Naganadel or Greninja have to gamble against Marshadow's blistering 125 base speed. Some like Mega Charizard Y and Genesect do not possess the defenses to consistently survive its attacks. And yet others like Scarf Porygon-Z simply cannot KO it before Marsh knocks them out back (Casual reminder that this mon has nearly the same defenses as Zapdos).

In the few hours it has been out, Marshadow has already forced adaptations. Umbreon, for example, is now running extreme amounts of physical defense. Zen Headbutt Mega Metagross is becoming more common.

And here's another thing to keep in mind: This is just one set. Other sets I've seen include Z-Close Combat for Meloetta and Assault Vest for Magnezone and Tapu Koko.

idc if i get called out for being premature, overhyping it, etc, marshadow is still a beast and needs to be ranked accordingly.

S.

Mega Altaria B > B+: This thing is good. Like, really good. It beats both S ranks plus the Charizards.

Aegislash A- > B+: It just isn't A- tbh

Tapu Bulu C+ > B-: I've really been liking this as of late. Excellent Sturdykiller, beats GyaraKoko (noticing a pattern?), as good a stallbreaker as Koko is, beats Mimikyu with Rock Tomb. Has lure options too like Band Superpower to beat Heatran, Scarf Stone Edge+HP Fire for Charizard Y/Durant/Kartana and AV.

Dustox Unranked to B: Best Golem/Donphan/Zygarde lure in the history of lures
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-725082108
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-724614592
no i'm not serious. dustox sucks

 

[ZeroPlasmaFist]

i truly believe that deo-s should be s rank. with specs psycho boost it one shots everything that doesn't resist and doesn't have sturdy. it can pp/recoil stall with iron defense, amnesia, taunt and recover, and you only need enough speed to check mega loppuny. i value my reputation, so i'm not going to talk about z-detect (but that's amazing too)

 

[Nalei]

with specs psycho boost it one shots everything that doesn't resist and doesn't have sturdy.

Pokemon that don't resist/are immune to Psychic and don't have Sturdy that survive a Modest Specs Psycho Boost:
Dragonite, (Mimikyu), Mega Charizard Y, specially defensive Mega Charizard X, Snorlax, Zygarde, Primarina, Tapu Fini, Mega Altaria, Chansey, Mega Blastoise, Blissey, Mega Swampert, Togekiss, Mega Camerupt, Porygon2, Tapu Bulu, Volcarona, Entei, Suicune

it can pp/recoil stall with iron defense, amnesia, taunt and recover

The problem with Deoxys-S PP stalling lies in it's poor bulk. Take the banned Deoxys-D or Mew, for example. Both work very similarly, but have much better bulk and countermeasures to prevent losing to crits (Mud Slap for Deoxys and Will-O-Wisp for Mew). Let's take a look at this: Kommo-o scores a crit. What happens to Mew?
+1 252 SpA Kommo-o Clanging Scales vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew on a critical hit: 337-397 (83.4 - 98.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
It can very well make it out alive. What happens to Deoxys?
+1 252 SpA Kommo-o Clanging Scales vs. 252 HP / 128 SpD Deoxys-Speed on a critical hit: 321-378 (105.5 - 124.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
It keels over and dies. While Pressure is nice, it still faces immense competition from Mew who can do the same job arguably better. Additionally, it's important to note that Pokemon with a combination of speed control and boosting can easily dispatch Deoxys such as Flame Charge Mega Charizard X, Rock Tomb Landorus-T and Electroweb Magnezone. edit: One other detriment to its viability is 50/50s. When facing a Charizard X, you have little to no way of knowing whether it plans on using Dragon Dance or just attacking. You play wrong, and you lose. This applies to a lot of Deoxys' matchups.

tldr; The "S" in "Deoxys-S" is not referring to viability

 

[ZeroPlasmaFist]

Pokemon that don't resist/are immune to Psychic and don't have Sturdy that survive a Modest Specs Psycho Boost:
Dragonite, (Mimikyu), Mega Charizard Y, specially defensive Mega Charizard X, Snorlax, Zygarde, Primarina, Tapu Fini, Mega Altaria, Chansey, Mega Blastoise, Blissey, Mega Swampert, Togekiss, Mega Camerupt, Porygon2, Tapu Bulu, Volcarona, Entei, Suicune

The problem with Deoxys-S PP stalling lies in it's poor bulk. Take the banned Deoxys-D or Mew, for example. Both work very similarly, but have much better bulk and countermeasures to prevent losing to crits (Mud Slap for Deoxys and Will-O-Wisp for Mew). Let's take a look at this: Kommo-o scores a crit. What happens to Mew?
+1 252 SpA Kommo-o Clanging Scales vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew on a critical hit: 337-397 (83.4 - 98.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
It can very well make it out alive. What happens to Deoxys?
+1 252 SpA Kommo-o Clanging Scales vs. 252 HP / 128 SpD Deoxys-Speed on a critical hit: 321-378 (105.5 - 124.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
It keels over and dies. While Pressure is nice, it still faces immense competition from Mew who can do the same job arguably better. Additionally, it's important to note that Pokemon with a combination of speed control and boosting can easily dispatch Deoxys such as Flame Charge Mega Charizard X, Rock Tomb Landorus-T and Electroweb Magnezone. edit: One other detriment to its viability is 50/50s. When facing a Charizard X, you have little to no way of knowing whether it plans on using Dragon Dance or just attacking. You play wrong, and you lose. This applies to a lot of Deoxys' matchups.

tldr; The "S" in "Deoxys-S" is not referring to viability

if u can outspeed and set up a iron defense or amnesia, u can easily survive a hit. here's the set i most prefer, because it's survived some epic hits for me
Deoxys-Speed @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 152 Def / 60 SpD / 44 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Amnesia
- Iron Defense
- Recover
- Taunt
it beats gyara, char x(with a bit of prediction) char y (with a bit of prediction), magearna, Dnite, lando-t andnormal lando, snorlax lele, zygod, mimik, aegis, gene(with prediction as ever), mega mawile, mega lopp and i'm getting bored here, so just look at the viability and it probably beats most things. and also mace, quite a lot of those pokemon you mentioned can only survive if specially adapted
252+ SpA Choice Specs Deoxys-Speed Psycho Boost vs. 156 HP / 100 SpD Charizard: 309-364 (91.9 - 108.3%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Deoxys-Speed Focus Blast vs. 76 HP / 76 SpD Gyarados-Mega: 260-308 (74.2 - 88%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Deoxys-Speed Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Snorlax: 441-519 (165.1 - 194.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Deoxys-Speed Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Snorlax: 441-519 (165.1 - 194.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
etc etc
finally, i would use deo-d, but there's a small problem: it's banned. i use deo-s because it can outspeed stuff and boost defenses before they hit

 

[Nalei]

if u can outspeed and set up a iron defense or amnesia, u can easily survive a hit. here's the set i most prefer, because it's survived some epic hits for me
Deoxys-Speed @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 152 Def / 60 SpD / 44 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Amnesia
- Iron Defense
- Recover
- Taunt
it beats gyara, char x(with a bit of prediction) char y (with a bit of prediction), magearna, Dnite, lando-t andnormal lando, snorlax lele, zygod, mimik, aegis, gene(with prediction as ever), mega mawile, mega lopp and i'm getting bored here, so just look at the viability and it probably beats most things. and also mace, quite a lot of those pokemon you mentioned can only survive if specially adapted
252+ SpA Choice Specs Deoxys-Speed Psycho Boost vs. 156 HP / 100 SpD Charizard: 309-364 (91.9 - 108.3%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Deoxys-Speed Focus Blast vs. 76 HP / 76 SpD Gyarados-Mega: 260-308 (74.2 - 88%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Deoxys-Speed Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Snorlax: 441-519 (165.1 - 194.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Deoxys-Speed Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Snorlax: 441-519 (165.1 - 194.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
etc etc
finally, i would use deo-d, but there's a small problem: it's banned. i use deo-s because it can outspeed stuff and boost defenses before they hit

For Charizard, I specifically noted that you have to run SpD. Your other two examples are bad because:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Deoxys-Speed Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gyarados-Mega: 276-326 (83.3 - 98.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Gyarados doesn't need any bulk to live. And where the fuck is that Snorlax calc coming from? Nice level 50 LOL
252+ SpA Choice Specs Deoxys-Speed Psycho Boost vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Snorlax: 280-330 (60.7 - 71.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Also, on Deoxys-D, I also noted Mew as an example and used it as the primary example

 

[motogp]

I think most of the viable dragons in the tier are more versatile and beat more stuff. For example, why use Hydreigon over Haxorus, who can kill more stuff with mold breaker, or scarf garchomp? Why use it over Dragonite, with better coverage and versatility? I remember testing scarf hydreigon and it didn't have a fun time.

It may have a small niche with a dark type, immune to prankster, but it's probably not the best typing for a dragon.

So basically Haxorus and Garchomp are better scarfers and Dragonite and Kommo-O for better z-moves.

Hydreigon fills a niche in that it is more unpredictable as to its moveset and beats both charizard forms with head smash,while mega metagross also has to worry about darkinium.There is also the reflect set that beats sturdy pokemin.Specifically,about Haxorus,it cannot really do much things better than Hydreigon other than beat some fairies with choice band iron tail ig.

 

[ZeroPlasmaFist]

correction
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-727555022

 

[Nalei]

correction
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-727555022

I'm pretty sure that that Gyara has a -SpD nature rof
Let's stop flooding the thread, yeah? We can start with you combining your two above posts with the replay and deleting the other for the sake of condensing it. After that, we can talk in PMs if you'd like. I'm online on PS! rn

 

[motogp]

correction
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-727555022

252+ SpA Choice Specs Deoxys-S Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Mega Gyarados: 308-364 (93 - 109.9%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO O
not talking about the luck involved in this (hitting Focus Blast,getting the roll and even finding a naive gyarados)
while advocating about a deoxys-speed raise,you are the one who should provide arguments and not ask us

if u can outspeed and set up a iron defense or amnesia, u can easily survive a hit. here's the set i most prefer, because it's survived some epic hits for me
Deoxys-Speed @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 152 Def / 60 SpD / 44 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Amnesia
- Iron Defense
- Recover
- Taunt
it beats gyara, char x(with a bit of prediction) char y (with a bit of prediction), magearna, Dnite, lando-t andnormal lando, snorlax lele, zygod, mimik, aegis, gene(with prediction as ever), mega mawile, mega lopp and i'm getting bored here, so just look at the viability and it probably beats most things. and also mace, quite a lot of those pokemon you mentioned can only survive if specially adapted
252+ SpA Choice Specs Deoxys-Speed Psycho Boost vs. 156 HP / 100 SpD Charizard: 309-364 (91.9 - 108.3%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Deoxys-Speed Focus Blast vs. 76 HP / 76 SpD Gyarados-Mega: 260-308 (74.2 - 88%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Deoxys-Speed Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Snorlax: 441-519 (165.1 - 194.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Deoxys-Speed Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Snorlax: 441-519 (165.1 - 194.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
etc etc
finally, i would use deo-d, but there's a small problem: it's banned. i use deo-s because it can outspeed stuff and boost defenses before they hit

provide your own arguments
And as a last note,it's not like this is some innovative set.I have seen at least 2 people with this set.It wasn't deemed good enough to be ranked back in the day,or it wasn't nominated at all,I don't really recall.Sure,it is worth a spot in the VR,but nothing above C+ for sure.Unless you really want it ranked for some reason (in which case you still have to provide arguments),stop being so biased and certain that this pokemon is ultimately broken.

 

[ZeroPlasmaFist]

i don't want to flood the thread with my reasons, so next time i see you on showdown, i'll PM you my reasons(i'm DarkEchoZero on ps btw).

 

[adfjo]

S.

Mega Altaria B > B+: This thing is good. Like, really good. It beats both S ranks plus the Charizards.

Which set do you use to beat both Charizards? As far as I know, all the sets just use Pixilate moves + boost.

 

[RunWithTheScizors]

Which set do you use to beat both Charizards? As far as I know, all the sets just use Pixilate moves + boost.

MAlt resists both form's STABs and can set up calm mind and fire strong pixilate moves. It can also cripple ZardX with bulldoze if he carelessly mega evolves. Use any set really

 

[Ginger Princess]

Which set do you use to beat both Charizards? As far as I know, all the sets just use Pixilate moves + boost.

not that I know exactly, but probably some spdef set with roost and cotton guard