Serious 2020 Democratic Primary Thread

[DianaNicole]

I'm for a lot of those things, so not trying to come from the angle of disagreeing.

However I think that for our nation as a whole change has to come slowly, and stuff is more likely to happen if we have time under moderation, and then become that much more progressive. So at this point I think it's still fair for other candidates to be involved in the process, but would love to see them embrace the Bernie style of doing things.

 

[PokePoindexter]

and stuff is more likely to happen if we have time under moderation,

We don't have that kind of time to spare anymore. Besides everything Trump has done, threats such as nuclear war, climate change, and the decimation of the Middle Class have been breathing down our necks for decades. Those dangers are not going to wait until special interests and the politicians bought by them have decided they've made enough profits before they destroy the planet.

"Moderation" would be like if the Founding Fathers compromised with King George III to only declare Georgia and Delaware independent, or Dr. King telling his followers to only focus on desegregating drinking fountains.

 

[DianaNicole]

We don't have that kind of time to spare anymore. Besides everything Trump has done, threats such as nuclear war, climate change, and the decimation of the Middle Class have been breathing down our necks for decades. Those dangers are not going to wait until special interests and the politicians bought by them have decided they've made enough profits before they destroy the planet.

"Moderation" would be like if the Founding Fathers compromised with King George III to only declare Georgia and Delaware independent, or Dr. King telling his followers to only focus on desegregating drinking fountains.

I would say you are correct, and that presents one of the larger failures of the government to this point. Yes the time for drastic action is now, and I don't know if Americans will mobilize like they need to in order to make that happen this year. Here's to hoping they do, so that actual change can be enacted from the top down.

 

[Chou Toshio]

Yeah, the problem for moderate change is power.

Whether change can happen or not is a question of who has power and the state of politics. The healthcare industry will fight the public option just as hard as Medicare for All— the question is which policy and politics will A) turn more people out to fight for it, and B) result in giving the people more power for future fights.
From that lens, Medicare for All is more politically viable— both in passing itself and sustaining itself (and giving the people more freedom/power to make more fights)

same with the Green New Deal. The politically more viable strategy is the one that turns out more people to fight for it and puts more power in the people’s hands after.

 

[RODAN]

https://jacobinmag.com/2019/12/pete-buttigieg-essay-contest-bernie-sanders mayor pete with a brutal takedown of mayor pete

 

[Machoke]

So how do you think the impeachment trial is going to affect Bernie and Warren who will have to be locked up in the Senate till basically Iowa? Right now Bernie has some good momentum in general and in the first two states, but will he be able to retain that off the campaign trail? And Warren is already on a downward trend to begin with.

 

[Celticpride]

You say that like Moscow Mitch is going to let the trail run longer than a week.

 

[Machoke]

Isn't the prediction for the lower end estimate of the trial length like... 4 weeks?

 

[Celticpride]

Source? McConnell doesn’t seem to want to call witnesses, and Graham has publicly stated he has no interest in being a fair juror. A quick cursory google search turns up nothing in specific timeframe estimates either.

 

[Machoke]

I've just been hearing that number thrown around a lot. That or 6 weeks, based on past impeachments and an examination of the process.

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate...senate-impeachment-trial-could-last-6-8-weeks

I mean if the trial is over before even a week that would be fantastic. Let Bernie back on the campaign trail and get this whole thing over with ASAP. But idk if that will be the case.

 

[zf]

Don’t even send this to the Senate. Let it Pelosi hold onto it until McConnell does something with the other 400 bills on his desk.

The Republican party wants this to disappear quickly and will refuse to remove Trump (ie hold a fair trial), no matter the circumstances. Make this be an issue that plagues them through the next election cycle.

 

[Chou Toshio]

“Now there’s a real competition going on up here,” Sanders said. “My good friend Joe, and he is a good friend, he’s received contributions from 44 billionaires. Pete on the other hand, is trailing, you only got 39 billionaires contributing.”

“So Pete, we look forward to you — I know you’re an energetic guy and a competitive guy — to see if you can take on Joe on that issue.”

 

[tcr]

that 100% reads like a trump quote

 

[Machoke]

that 100% reads like a trump quote

What's even the point of saying this? You can't call out the toxic effect of billionaire money on elections without being called Trumpian? Lmao please.

 

[tcr]

its trumpian because all bernie is doing is pitting the other dems against each other in some pissing contest

what attracted me to sanders in the first place was his refusal to play the game other politicians do and to tackle issues relevant to him without dragging people thru the mud.

 

[Machoke]

That was a debate. The entire point of the debate is to draw distinctions between the candidates so people know who they will potentially be voting for. By highlighting the fact that Biden and Buttigieg are bought off by billionaires, he is exposing a distinction between himself and the other two and what you could expect from him. Not only that, he is continually shifting the overton window as he has been doing to reinforce the idea that being bought off by rich people is not a good thing. Why do all the other candidates have to shy away from superpacs and focus on grassroots donations now? He's paving the way, and sometimes to pave the way forward, you have to make punches. Politics isn't always about playing nice especially when you're Bernie who's being punched all the time. Bout time he punches back lol.
And people taking these bribes is an issue relevant to him. He's not dragging people through the mud, he's exposing things that are relevant to political machinery that he wants to combat.

 

[Chou Toshio]

that 100% reads like a trump quote

Good. Trump Won by bitch slapping the establishment on trade, war, corruption. The only difference is that Bernie actually stands for that shit, and speaks from a place of integrity.

its trumpian because all bernie is doing is pitting the other dems against each other in some pissing contest

what attracted me to sanders in the first place was his refusal to play the game other politicians do and to tackle issues relevant to him without dragging people thru the mud.

"Have you no decency sir~! Yes~~ Civility~!" Let me play a fiddle:

 

[DTC]

I like when candidates attack each other. I think my favorite candidate is probably Biden at this point (also like Klob a lot, but she hasn't faced much scrutiny yet), but I appreciate when he gets attacked because it's training him against Trump. Trump is going to be far more vicious than any of these other democratic candidates and the nominee needs to be battle-tested.

Hillary vs Bernie was a wet noodle fight imo. Obama vs Hillary was far more savage

 

[dice]

i’ve never ever actually met someone who uttered “my favorite candidate is biden” until now wow they exist holy shit

 

[DTC]

i’ve never ever actually met someone who uttered “my favorite candidate is biden” until now wow they exist holy shit

Why do you think he's been polling the highest? He has a lot of supporters on the ground.

They just aren't on the internet, lol.

 

[dice]

would you mind laying out what led you to champion biden?

 

[DTC]

would you mind laying out what led you to champion biden?

Ideology mainly. I like Joe Biden a lot more on education, immigration, infrastructure, the federal reserve, health care and labor issues. I trust Biden more on foreign policy and trade. I think he's far less reactionary on cultural issues and would hire better staff. I don't think his "work with Republicans in Congress" will work, but I think he'd be more effective at working with Joe Manchin and Krysten Sinema on the Senate side. Those two will be the biggest democratic roadblocks and are essential for getting leftwing policy passed.

Electability isn't a big concern to me. I think Sanders is probably slightly more electable than Biden even though polls are saying otherwise. I also trust Bernie a little more on criminal justice.

 

[6Roggenrolas]

I knew a few people who wanted Biden but uh... then he ran. It would seem that failure to answer basic questions in a coherent fashion can really dismiss your value as a candidate.

 

[Chou Toshio]

I knew a few people who wanted Biden but uh... then he ran. It would seem that failure to answer basic questions in a coherent fashion can really dismiss your value as a candidate.

Biden undoubtedly had a good night though. He was at his lowest on the speaking time rank, he completed most of his sentences, none of his teeth fell out. The campaign hit its objectives here.

 

[Chou Toshio]

I mean, people were lol'ing at that post and I do think it's funny, but I was being entirely serious. lol Biden has a lower bar, and he met it.

On the other hand though, he might have sunk his electability against Trump in a general with that "Yes we will eliminate Blue Collar Jobs in order to fight climate change" answer... Remember Hillary and the Coal Miners?